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Tazok wrote:Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)

Wow. So not wanting to paint his models makes him neither a good sport nor a good opponent? I'm a terribly slow painter so, as such, I often field unpainted models. I didn't know I was being a bad sport by doing so.

Gimme a break. People will find any reason to bash on the WC these days (and no, I'm not in the WC).

Bunker wrote:

carmachu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

As a former tournament organizer, I'd throw you out on your butt.

If you don't like it don't attend. This is a sort of tourney attempting to push at least a minimum of painting and othetr aspects, not just raw gaming. The idea of playing against "the grey frontier" does not reflect on other aspects of the tourney. Unless you are a newb (haven't said that in a few years) there's no excuse for at least a least this base level of painting on your minis. Its also a leading economic indicator that a player who brings an unpainted force may be TFG. If you want to play a Ard Boyz tournament fine, play those tourneys.

Your welcome to. But then I'd permantly take my money elsewhere. And any friends to.

With an attitude like that, I doubt you'd have many friends to begin with.

Heh. Should I?... I can't help it, the stupid is overwhelming... Here, I'll let you do it:

With an attitude like that, I doubt you'd have many friends to begin with.

Whew, I'm glad I got that off my chest.

Slipstream wrote:1) You spend all that money on miniatures and yet you
don't paint them.....why?
2) You spend all that money on miniatures and yet you
decide only to put 3 dots of paint on them...why?
3) Are you sure you're happy to spend all that money
and yet not get the full benefit from completed
miniatures?
4)Are you only interested in winning at all cost?Dare
I say it a powergamer?
5)If you are at all interested in the spirit of the
hobby you really should paint your figures.Trust me,
you'll get more respect.
6)Unpainted miniatures....why?

1) Are you saying he has to paint his models in order to get any satisfaction from them?
2) See above
3) Why are you trying to dictate how someone enjoys the hobby?
4) Dare I say pretentious?
5) See above
6) ??


Deadshane1: Take your models (and money) elsewhere. They have a right to run their tournament the way they want to and you have a right to vote with your feet/wallet.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

lord_blackfang wrote:Sadly, it looks like their attempt to politely exclude power gamers and rules lawyers is already backfiring.

I'd say it's working just fine, and will work even better once the TO starts to enforce the 3-color rule properly, as in "3 dots doesn't count".

____

Bunker wrote:So don't go.

Judging by your posts on here, you probably won't be missed

____

dietrich wrote:I find it ironic that a power-gamer is throwing rocks about people trying to be king nerd.

____

targetawg wrote:I'd say its more likely a lot of the gamers got tired of facing the "flavor of the month" power gamer armies that never get painted because they're recently purchased.

____

carmachu wrote:Your welcome to. But then I'd permantly take my money elsewhere. And any friends to.

That's also probably part of the intent behind the 3-color rule.
____

Tazok wrote:Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)

Ding-ding-ding!!!

We have a WINNAH!

I feel sad I was excluded from your list of quotes JohnnyHH, I want to be part of the in crowd too!

Oops, sorry Frazz. Next time.

Ozymandias wrote:

Wow. So not wanting to paint his models makes him neither a good sport nor a good opponent? I'm a terribly slow painter so, as such, I often field unpainted models. I didn't know I was being a bad sport by doing so.

You're glossing over the 1) whining about a time honored minimum painting standard; 2) the proposed snarky tactic of putting dots of paint on his list to meet the requirement. That just reeks of a cranial rectal inversion, and in no circumstance would I, if I were the tournament organizer, ever allow that player to enter that tournament-or any future tournaments.

I'm not saying the WC are a bunch of idiots. I'm saying ANYONE doing this runs the high risk of being laughed out of the tournament.
Inversely, if Deashane1 painted up a couple of "protest minis" with three dollups of paint in a humorous fashion, but then had at least a minimally painted list, then he's rocketing up for best sportsmen or theme or something.

What "time-honored painting standard?" I've never been to a LOCAL tournament that required I paint my models.

Besides, I wasn't responding to Deadshane or you, I was responding to the idiotic posts claiming moral hobby superiority.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ozymandias wrote:What "time-honored painting standard?" I've never been to a LOCAL tournament that required I paint my models.

Besides, I wasn't responding to Deadshane or you, I was responding to the idiotic posts claiming moral hobby superiority.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Three paint standard was an RTT standard for years. You didn't have to, but the basic RTT came in that rules format.

Yup. Traditionally, "3-colors" was the bare minimum standard, meaning "fully-painted using at least 3 colors".

Then, GW got wound up over Black Templars and Necrons... :S

Frazzled wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:What "time-honored painting standard?" I've never been to a LOCAL tournament that required I paint my models.

Besides, I wasn't responding to Deadshane or you, I was responding to the idiotic posts claiming moral hobby superiority.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Three paint standard was an RTT standard for years. You didn't have to, but the basic RTT came in that rules format.

I have to say, this is my experience as well, I always remember rules for only fielding painted armys even in casual games at my local gw. I notice that not many uk people have posted in this thread so that might just be a uk thing.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yup. Traditionally, "3-colors" was the bare minimum standard, meaning "fully-painted using at least 3 colors".

Then, GW got wound up over Black Templars and Necrons... :S

1) spray paint marine sprues black except backpacks and weapons.
2) spray paint weapons grey.
3) spray paint back packs bolt gun or different shade of grey.
4) assemble. Templars! Forward!

Ah, the internet, where tone and sarcasm can't be perceived. Maybe this was all meant to be an attempt at humor.

Deadshane is asking for abuse. Anyone that comes on here beating his chest about how awesome his gaming cliche is at claiming the title of King of All Minatures Gaming Nerds is asking for abuse. Mauleed certainly took his share, and when he wasn't suspended, Stelek did as well. Yak doesn't beat his chest much, and he takes abuse.

Having a painted army is my expectation of a tourney, and an unpainted tourney to me, is the exception, not the norm. And since the OP has played in national tournies, he must have some painted armies somewhere in his house. Which means that he's only trying to playtest his new uber-list out of the latest codex.

A few years ago, my Team CAGO played a Wrecking Crew team at Adepticon. They fielded a pretty nasty EC list out of the last CSM codex (the good one). I seem to remember that they were somehow better at both shooting and melee than my Space Wolves, and yet had about the same number of models. And I probably gave them sort of a "this was a pretty cheesy list and not fun to play against" score. Of the two guys I played against, one was super cool and I'd play against any day. The other came off as TFG. So, based on personal experience, WC is about 50/50 nice guys and TFG. Coming on and whining about an RTT going to a painted army standard and the whole "3-dot" comment sure paints the OP as TFG.

And my guess is that a lot of people that don't like his attitude have any experience playing the WC. So when someone comes onto a forum like this beating his chest, he's painting the whole group in a negative fashion.

Frazzled wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yup. Traditionally, "3-colors" was the bare minimum standard, meaning "fully-painted using at least 3 colors".

Then, GW got wound up over Black Templars and Necrons... :S

1) spray paint marine sprues black except backpacks and weapons.
2) spray paint weapons grey.
3) spray paint back packs bolt gun or different shade of grey.
4) assemble. Templars! Forward!

You guys keep adding to my list of things to do. Maybe if I ever come upon a treasure
trove of unwanted single pose Marines I'll make a go at this.

Make a go? Thats my best painted army list!

Thats it Malf, I want my socks back!

Well, I wasn't going to use anything as fine as an air brush. I was going to buy
cans of Black, Red and something else and try to make some fugly Blud Marines.

There have been a few personal attacks in this thread (Bunker, Tazok, I'm looking at you). Quit it; you all know better. Yes, I know you may disagree with Deadshane. Or one of the posters criticizing Deadshane. But attack the post itself! I know that you get angry and caught up in the moment, but let's keep some modicum of civility here.

And honestly, personal attacks are so 1998. Make a witty comment or something.

While I'm ranting, one other thing I've seen lately are numerous attacks on the Wrecking Crew based on the behavior of one member. I don't know how you're extrapolating the behavior of one member to the entire group, but you must be using some sort of voodoo magic to do so. You wonder why the WC come defending their own? It's because people paint the entire club with the same brush, when in reality they're a bunch of strong-minded individuals that are all very different. I've only met one personally, but most of the members that post on Dakka are mostly quiet, quality posters that aren't here to start anything.

I'm a bit sensitive to this topic because people did (and still do, maybe, I don't know) view all Dakka posters as arrogant, rule-bending jerks due to a few vocal posters, and I hated being lumped in to that category due to the actions of a few people. It's all well and good to criticize someone, but be sure that you're doing it legitimately.

I know that many of you are going to mutter about me being "pro-WC", "unfairly biased" and "getting free miniatures from the Wrecking Crew". If you feel I am being unfair, PLEASE contact Yakface or one of the other mods (Frazzled is a Texan, so he's always a good bet). I do my best to be impartial.

For the record, I am very surprised at the level of reaction this topic has gotten. Deadshane, I think that while it does suck that your store did this to you, you're smart enough to figure out a way to fix it. Suggest periodic RTTs that don't require painted figs and let it be known that it's going to be catering to power lists. Complaining to us on Dakka, while cathartic, really won't help you with your problem.

whatwhat wrote:I have to say, this is my experience as well, I always remember rules for only fielding painted armys even in casual games at my local gw. I notice that not many uk people have posted in this thread so that might just be a uk thing.

The UK GT's, hell even the themed campaign weekends, require fully painted armies-- with the indeed time honoured 3 colour minimum-- as standard.

Sure you might get away with the odd not quite finished model here and there, but most of your force better be painted.

For the Uk 40k GTs at the moment : 3 heats with top 45 players from each heat going through. Each heat also sees X number of armies selected for "best painted"-- this is decided upon by bllot vote by the attendees. If you're nominated for this you also get a pass to the final as well.

Final in theory has about 140-150 players.

I'll never win best painted army, but I do appreciate some of the stunning work we see there.

I do still miss the quiz which was worth up to 20 extra points. I never scored less than 18 and usualy use to max out there. Ahhh... the good old days.

Every RTT I've ever played at required a painted army. You enjoyed your free ride, spray base and drybrush or don't play. Three colors is pitifully easy to accomplish. It's not even "finished" its "3 colors". Just base drybrush and ink. It'll give you the motivation to finish the army sooner rather than later and you won't lose models as easily as you would black ones. I'm running a totally unpainted army as it is and I don't expect to be allowed into tourneys of any size or structure beyond new guy centric outings.

Isn't Deadshane the self-proclaimed founder of the Wrecking Crew?

I love the way these things propogate. As far as I know he's not, but the history of the WC was posted in other threads.

Let me see if I can get a few started:

"Doesn't the Wrecking Crew bathe in babies blood before a tournament?"

"I heard that Dakka members killed a GW dev for making crappy rules."

Ozymandias, King of Kings

That last ones true. They then ate him.

Deadshane wrote, "Deadshane-Wrecking Crew Founding Member, GT regular since '96, never won anything better than 2nd place best sport (chicago '02?), 2 tourney per year min, last 3 adepticons under my belt, regular top 10% as an attainable goal, and shouldve won Canada '02 General if it wasnt for that blasted Shawn Kemp (I hate you dood! j/k, you'll get yours soon)..... "

In regard to tournaments and the issue or whether Gareth cheated or not he went on to say, "Representing WC, I'll go ahead and say to the community that we're sorry for any confusion on this subject. Wrecking Crews mission as stated on our website, is to form an elite group of competetive gamers that consider sportsmanship always as a major factor in placing highly in any tournement. Any of you out there that have met with us KNOW that we're all about the GAME. As an entire group, we're all about honest gaming. We don't use tricks as a rule and any deviation from that policy will be addressed within our own community."

I think he's idea of three color painting is a trick against the rules of the tournament. Do other WC members agree or disagree? If they agree what punishment will be enacted.

dietrich wrote:
A few years ago, my Team CAGO played a Wrecking Crew team at Adepticon. They fielded a pretty nasty EC list out of the last CSM codex (the good one)...

And my guess is that a lot of people that don't like his attitude have any experience playing the WC. So when someone comes onto a forum like this beating his chest, he's painting the whole group in a negative fashion.

A few years ago, at Adepticon, my team played a WC team (Kenny, Dave, Hod and someone else - the someone else having played against my teammates and not me), and I have nothing but good things to say about the experience. In that game, we fielded Emperor's Children (from the old, good codex) and they fielded Death Guard, and we split the games (we won on one table, they won on one table).

I've never had anything but positive experiences with any of them in person, and quite honestly, I'm pretty disgusted at anyone who hasn't played against them, or at least spoken to them in person, running their mouths (or fingers, behind the anonymity of the internet) about a group of other gamers. It's not like we're all not a bunch of nerds in our 20s and 30s (and 40s and 50s) playing with toy soldiers. Adding high school drama and gossiping about what other friends are doing is fit for a knitting circle, not wargamers.

Redbeard wrote:Adding high school drama and gossiping about what other friends are doing is fit for a knitting circle, not wargamers.

If you don't believe that there's more drama among wargamers, then you're not fully-tied into the wargaming "community". It's all high-school drama about favorites and group politics. The difference is that, most wargamers weren't sufficiently well-socialized in high school, so it's catching up 10+ years later than it should.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Those bastards, trying to force players to actually take part in the *hobby* aspects instead of catering toward every flavor of TFG who can't even bother to buy a can of spray paint once in a while...

I had a hard time, trying to decide between yours and Bunker's to QFT.

But seriously though, it doesn't help that you go, "Oh so I put 3 dots of paint on my guys". I can understand not painting, but things like this just make me have a dim view of people. Anything to win I suppose.

Aren't you part of the Wrecking Crew?

Highest level of sportsmanship, indeed.

Tazok wrote:Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)

Exactly. When Deadshane1 is not complaining about having to field painted armies he's defending people who bend rules to eek out tournament wins.

Iorek wrote:I know that many of you are going to mutter about me being "pro-WC", "unfairly biased" and "getting free miniatures from the Wrecking Crew".

What th'...you mean you can get free miniatures if you're biased and pro Wrecking Crew?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!


VIVA LA WRECKING CREW!!! NOT A BAD APPLE IN THE LOT!!

Vladsimpaler wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Those bastards, trying to force players to actually take part in the *hobby* aspects instead of catering toward every flavor of TFG who can't even bother to buy a can of spray paint once in a while...

I had a hard time, trying to decide between yours and Bunker's to QFT.

But seriously though, it doesn't help that you go, "Oh so I put 3 dots of paint on my guys". I can understand not painting, but things like this just make me have a dim view of people. Anything to win I suppose.

Aren't you part of the Wrecking Crew?

Highest level of sportsmanship, indeed.

I see your post and raise you one

Iorek wrote:

And honestly, personal attacks are so 1998. Make a witty comment or something.

While I'm ranting, one other thing I've seen lately are numerous attacks on the Wrecking Crew based on the behavior of one member. I don't know how you're extrapolating the behavior of one member to the entire group, but you must be using some sort of voodoo magic to do so. You wonder why the WC come defending their own? It's because people paint the entire club with the same brush, when in reality they're a bunch of strong-minded individuals that are all very different. I've only met one personally, but most of the members that post on Dakka are mostly quiet, quality posters that aren't here to start anything.

I'm a bit sensitive to this topic because people did (and still do, maybe, I don't know) view all Dakka posters as arrogant, rule-bending jerks due to a few vocal posters, and I hated being lumped in to that category due to the actions of a few people. It's all well and good to criticize someone, but be sure that you're doing it legitimately.

I know that many of you are going to mutter about me being "pro-WC", "unfairly biased" and "getting free miniatures from the Wrecking Crew". If you feel I am being unfair, PLEASE contact Yakface or one of the other mods (Frazzled is a Texan, so he's always a good bet). I do my best to be impartial.

For the record, I am very surprised at the level of reaction this topic has gotten. Deadshane, I think that while it does suck that your store did this to you, you're smart enough to figure out a way to fix it. Suggest periodic RTTs that don't require painted figs and let it be known that it's going to be catering to power lists. Complaining to us on Dakka, while cathartic, really won't help you with your problem.

And just for good measure:

Redbeard wrote:

A few years ago, at Adepticon, my team played a WC team (Kenny, Dave, Hod and someone else - the someone else having played against my teammates and not me), and I have nothing but good things to say about the experience. In that game, we fielded Emperor's Children (from the old, good codex) and they fielded Death Guard, and we split the games (we won on one table, they won on one table).

I've never had anything but positive experiences with any of them in person, and quite honestly, I'm pretty disgusted at anyone who hasn't played against them, or at least spoken to them in person, running their mouths (or fingers, behind the anonymity of the internet) about a group of other gamers. It's not like we're all not a bunch of nerds in our 20s and 30s (and 40s and 50s) playing with toy soldiers. Adding high school drama and gossiping about what other friends are doing is fit for a knitting circle, not wargamers.

I know it's fun to bash the WC as a more visible version of a tournament gamer, but come on, enough is enough already and frankly, your effort was a little late to the party and rather pathetic (once again, I'm not part of the WC and have never been to any national tournament).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

God, in the time it took for me to post there were two more gems.

In before lock!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Redbeard wrote:Adding high school drama and gossiping about what other friends are doing is fit for a knitting circle, not wargamers.

If you don't believe that there's more drama among wargamers, then you're not fully-tied into the wargaming "community". It's all high-school drama about favorites and group politics. The difference is that, most wargamers weren't sufficiently well-socialized in high school, so it's catching up 10+ years later than it should.

I hear the Wrecking Crew is a total slut.

@Ozy: Be honest. With Deadshane's initial post, did you seriously expect this thread to go down any other path?