This is why concealed carry is helpful

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**Frazzled**

Or at least the right to carry a chainsaw. If I'm getting into a fight with a cannibal I want a .44 magnum or, barring that, a working chainsaw.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96MO7IO2&show_article=1

Man accused of beheading on bus pleads not guilty

WINNIPEG, Manitoba (AP) - A man accused of beheading and cannibalizing a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in Canada apologized to police when he was arrested and begged officers to kill him. The details emerged Tuesday as Vince Li pleaded not guilty at the start of his murder trial.
"I'm sorry. I'm guilty. Please kill me," Li said, according to an agreed statement of facts read in court.

The Chinese immigrant is accused of the second-degree murder last summer of Tim McLean, a 22-year-old carnival worker who was killed in what passengers described as a random, horrific attack.

Li's lawyers are not disputing that he killed McLean, but they will argue Li was mentally ill and not criminally responsible.

Three dozen passengers were aboard the bus as it traveled at night along a desolate stretch of the Trans-Canada Highway in western Canada. Witnesses said Li attacked McLean unprovoked, stabbing him dozens of times.

As horrified passengers fled the bus, Li severed McLean's head and displayed it to some of the passengers outside, witnesses said.

A police report said an officer at the scene saw the attacker hacking off pieces of the body and eating them.

The statement of facts read in court said Li attacked Tim McLean "for no apparent reason" and McLean fought to escape before he died.

The statement said Li tried numerous times to leave the bus, but he was locked inside, and he returned to McLean's body and cut it up further. Li eventually escaped through a window and was arrested.

Police said McLean's body parts were found throughout the bus in plastic bags, although part of his heart and both eyes were never found. The victim's ear, nose and tongue were found in Li's pocket.

McLean's family and friends, many wearing T-shirts with his picture, wept as the details were read. The victim's mother, Carol deDelley, said she wants the law changed so anyone found not criminally responsible for a crime still serves prison time.

Li, who immigrated to Canada in 2004, pleaded at an earlier hearing in August for someone to "please kill me."

Canada does not have the death penalty.

A court-ordered psychiatric evaluation had declared him fit to stand trial.

His former wife said Li, who became a Canadian citizen in 2005, took unexplained bus trips and sometimes rambled. He was hospitalized briefly but never sought medical attention.

Before he left on the bus trip, he left his wife a note: "I'm gone. Don't look for me. I wish you were happy."

**Illeix**

Yep, a legally carried firearm could have stopped a horrific murder...

I'm glad I can still carry...

**Fattimus_maximus**

Being a vet, who strongly believes in his gun rights, yes we should all be carrying something on us to protect us from the rapists, cannibals, murderers, crooks, thieves, malcontents, and assorted sociopaths that like to go after us and ours.

**Da Boss**

*Sticks fist in mouth*

That was a shocking case alright.

**poptarticus**

Wow, just, wow.

That is something you see in "The Hills Have Eyes" not on the evening news.

I can read about horrific acts in a story, but reading something like this that happened in real life makes my stomach churn and wonder about mankind.

**warpcrafter**

I do not believe that guy is anywhere near sane, but I also would not feel bad if his intended victim would have put a bullet or three in his head to save himself.

**jp400**

Yup.

Its a sick world we live in. Glad I CC everywhere I go.
Just think what might have happened if one person on that bus was carrying a gun.

But nooooooooooo....... guns are bad and cant possibly be a good thing right?
This is a perfect example of what we would see alot more if Obama and the nutjobs like him somehow manage to ban firearms and CC in America.

**gorgon**

There's a hundred ways a concealed weapon wouldn't have prevented a thing. What if the attacker was in the seat behind him? What if he stabbed him out of the blue while walking past his seat? What if he stabbed him coming out of the bathroom?

If you're squaring off High Noon style, great. But how's a concealed gun going to prevent an unprovoked surprise attack at close quarters? An *unconcealed* weapon might have been more effective.

**BloodofOrks**

Man, only in Winnipeg. Seriously, research some of that city's murder cases. I guess a few months of darkness and nothing to do but drink will do damage to one's mind.

**Da Boss**

That is a fact.

**efarrer**

gorgon wrote:There's a hundred ways a concealed weapon wouldn't have prevented a thing. What if the attacker was in the seat behind him? What if he stabbed him out of the blue while walking past his seat? What if he stabbed him coming out of the bathroom?

If you're squaring off High Noon style, great. But how's a concealed gun going to prevent an unprovoked surprise attack at close quarters? An *unconcealed* weapon might have been more effective.

Now the facts that make concealed carry rather redundant in this case.

-Middle of night on a grey hound bus
-that has traveled over three provincial jurisdictions
-victim and most other passengers are asleep.
-killer slid into seat beside victim and killed him in his sleep.
-Killer could have potentially qualified for similar rights.

Even in the land of concealed carry you need a separate permit to carry concealed between states that have such a a law

Saying concealed carry laws in such a circumstance is silly and so are arguments for it based on this extreme case.

**Thalor**

gorgon wrote:There's a hundred ways a concealed weapon wouldn't have prevented a thing. What if the attacker was in the seat behind him? What if he stabbed him out of the blue while walking past his seat? What if he stabbed him coming out of the bathroom?

If you're squaring off High Noon style, great. But how's a concealed gun going to prevent an unprovoked surprise attack at close quarters? An *unconcealed* weapon might have been more effective.

I think he means if one of the other 36 passengers was carrying a concealed gun they could have stopped it after it started. I'd like to think that I would have jumped in and helped even without a weapon though. After what happened during 9-11 it is a bit surprising that we are all still sheep running from the wolves.

**lambadomy**

I agree, had one of the passengers had a gun and been willing to shoot someone on a bus, and been awake, then the guy would have only been stabbed to death and not beheaded. So definitely we need concealed carry laws for everyone since stabbing/beheading/cannibalism is rampant and much worse than just stabbing. And couldn't possibly cause any other problems, such as criminals who used to just mug people instead running them down with a car and then robbing the body, just in case that person might be packing heat.

**Da Boss**

Thalor wrote:
gorgon wrote:There's a hundred ways a concealed weapon wouldn't have prevented a thing. What if the attacker was in the seat behind him? What if he stabbed him out of the blue while walking past his seat? What if he stabbed him coming out of the bathroom?

If you're squaring off High Noon style, great. But how's a concealed gun going to prevent an unprovoked surprise attack at close quarters? An *unconcealed* weapon might have been more effective.

I think he means if one of the other 36 passengers was carrying a concealed gun they could have stopped it after it started. I'd like to think that I would have jumped in and helped even without a weapon though. After what happened during 9-11 it is a bit surprising that we are all still sheep running from the wolves.

Well, think about the situation. You're on the bus, chatting to a friend, listening to your mp3 player, or reading, or sleeping. You hear yelling and fighting and turn around- two guys are fighting, you're not sure what's going on. You stand up, and look: JESUS! One of them is perforating the other, stabbing him over and over. Crap, that guy is obviously dead. You can't help him, and he's not currently threatening anyone else. Best thing to do is get out of here before he can hurt anyone else.

I've intervened in fights before, I've no problem with that. But judging the people on the bus without knowing the ins and outs isn't that fair.
Also, carrying guns can result in more gun related crimes of passion. It's a scales.

**Frazzled**

Don't forget the chainsaw! This could be an epic cage match B movie. Psycho cannibal with butcher knife vs. (in my case) ticked off old fart with chainsaw who's just seen his tax bill go up. Bring it BABY!!!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMMMM!!!

**lambadomy**

It is kind of hard to conceal a chainsaw. maybe a sawed-off chainsaw, but those are probably illegal because of the democrats.

**Illeix**

stabbed once maybe twice, you might live, but the more important quality of CC is deterance.
would he have even tried it if he thought he could get shot?
(in this case, probably, seeing he's insane and wanted to die... but most criminals are not and do not)

**gorgon**

Da Boss wrote:Well, think about the situation. You're on the bus, chatting to a friend, listening to your mp3 player, or reading, or sleeping. You hear yelling and fighting and turn around- two guys are fighting, you're not sure what's going on. You stand up, and look: JESUS! One of them is perforating the other, stabbing him over and over. Crap, that guy is obviously dead. You can't help him, and he's not currently threatening anyone else. Best thing to do is get out of here before he can hurt anyone else.

I've intervened in fights before, I've no problem with that. But judging the people on the bus without knowing the ins and outs isn't that fair.
Also, carrying guns can result in more gun related crimes of passion. It's a scales.

Yeah, the only wise move in that situation is to get the heck off the bus and help others do so too. If the killer was also carrying, he might have ended up toting your eyes and other squishy parts in plastic baggies.

Besides, the guy obviously was part Kroot and more interested in eating the dead than pursuing others.

**Illeix**

lambadomy wrote:It is kind of hard to conceal a chainsaw. maybe a sawed-off chainsaw, but those are probably illegal because of the democrats.

Lol

**gorgon**

Illeix wrote:stabbed once maybe twice, you might live, but the more important quality of CC is deterance.
would he have even tried it if he thought he could get shot?
(in this case, probably, seeing he's insane and wanted to die... but most criminals are not and do not)

If it's concealed, how would it deter anything? Sleeping with a shotgun cradled in his lap might have planted the suggestion to go attack another seat. Not a snub nose in his sock.

I'd also like to see you pull a concealed weapon out of your holster, maintain control of it and use it in a threatening manner or shoot it while getting stabbed repeatedly by a maniacal cannibal. You're almost certainly more interested in trying to grab the knife and/or cover yourself up at that point. Don't underestimate the panic factor there.

I'd also like to point out that this whole story is exactly the kind of thing that happens to carney workers. Don't let your kids grow up to work the carney circuit -- that's the real moral here.

**efarrer**

gorgon wrote:
Da Boss wrote:Well, think about the situation. You're on the bus, chatting to a friend, listening to your mp3 player, or reading, or sleeping. You hear yelling and fighting and turn around- two guys are fighting, you're not sure what's going on. You stand up, and look: JESUS! One of them is perforating the other, stabbing him over and over. Crap, that guy is obviously dead. You can't help him, and he's not currently threatening anyone else. Best thing to do is get out of here before he can hurt anyone else.

I've intervened in fights before, I've no problem with that. But judging the people on the bus without knowing the ins and outs isn't that fair.
Also, carrying guns can result in more gun related crimes of passion. It's a scales.

Yeah, the only wise move in that situation is to get the heck off the bus and help others do so too. If the killer was also carrying, he might have ended up toting your eyes and other squishy parts in plastic baggies.

Besides, the guy obviously was part Kroot and more interested in eating the dead than pursuing others.

Which in point of fact was what happened. The driver disabled the bus. THe mutilatio occurred while waiting for the police and ensuring the killer remained on the bus for the police to deal with. Which they did.

The killer ain't going anywhere.

**warpcrafter**

Frazzled wrote:Don't forget the chainsaw! This could be an epic cage match B movie. Psycho cannibal with butcher knife vs. (in my case) ticked off old fart with chainsaw who's just seen his tax bill go up. Bring it BABY!!!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMMMM!!!

That's it. The next time you warn me about what I type, I'm gonna find somebody who has knowledge of the dark arts and have a mother of a curse put on you.

**Illeix**

Crime of passion? like when a husband has been abuseing his wife for years and she "suddenly" shoots him?

or were you talking about prostitution?

**Da Boss**

Look it up.

**Frazzled**

Hey you have to use a little imagination here. I can't both put the image in your head AND reproduce the proper tone of a chainsaw revving to high...

**lambadomy**

the idea isn't that your concealed weapon will deter anything - the idea is that once there is a critical mass of people carrying concealed weapons, that crime will be reduced due to the fact that criminals never know if their victim or someone nearby has a gun.

This of course is rubbish but it's still a nice idea that I wish was true. Unfortunately all it seems to do is increase the likelihood that the criminals just kill you before robbing you, just in case. And of course it wouldn't deter mr stabby cannibal here, since he really just wants to stab and eat someone on a bus...heck he obviously would have preferred it if someone shot him after he started stabbing the dude, based on his reaction with the cops.

**Frazzled**

Actually, I was of the opinion that
1) the victim was struggling as noted in the report. There might have been sufficient time to prevent lethal damage.

2) Its best that the laws be amended for open carry of chainsaws.

Won't someone please think of the children?!?!

**Illeix**

@Frazzled
thanks for the comedic relief

@da boss
How can it be a crime of passion if the perpotrator has time to think about retrieving a firearm, isn't he "temporarily insane" at that point?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

jp400 wrote:Yup.

Its a sick world we live in. Glad I CC everywhere I go.
Just think what might have happened if one person on that bus was carrying a gun.

But nooooooooooo....... guns are bad and cant possibly be a good thing right?
This is a perfect example of what we would see alot more if Obama and the nutjobs like him somehow manage to ban firearms and CC in America.

Yes. Thats right. Because here in Britain, I simply cannot walk the street for fear of some blood maddened cannibal popping out and trying to hack my head off.

But then, it is always balanced against the fact that I am extremely unlikely to be shot over a totally trivial matter gotten far out of hand. Punched perhaps, but not shot.

I will never see Guns as being the answer to any social problems, unless said problem is what can we take off the streets to make them safer?

**Illeix**

How about getting drugs off the streets of America and ending this stupid "war on drugs"
that would fix our problem.