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Hey folks! This is my battle report for Round #5 of the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre in Media PA.

You can find my battle report for round #1 here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/281869.page
You can find my battle report for round #2 here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/281910.page
You can find my battle report for round #3 here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/281981.page
You can find my battle report for round #4 here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282027.page


Headed into Round #5, I've got three 22 point massacres and one 0 point massacred. I'm now at table #4, and am shocked that I've done this well despite getting tabled round #2. I still can't win; my 66 battle points don't stack up against the 76-84 point spread on the top tables, but I'm feeling good for my first GT.

My list:
Ghazghkull
KFF Mek

17 Boyz+Nob(Wagon with KFF)
12 boyz in trukk
12 boyz in trukk
10 gretchin/runtherder

15 burnas (Wagon with Ghaz)
15 Lootas
15 Lootas

1 Deffkopta, Rokkits and Buzzsaw
1 Deffkopta, Rokkits and Buzzsaw

2x Battlewagons, 'Eavy armor, boarding plank, grabbin klaw, big shoota



My opponent, Matt Cassidy is running a foot-slogging IG list that Alex Fennel built for him (may my favorite british pink model painter someday rue this!) and he was working very hard not to chuckle as I stepped up to the table. His list was designed specifically to beat on a list like mine. I saw tough times ahead, but I didn't know just how much.

His list: the structure of it on the list I'm looking at doesn't make a lot of sense to me, so I'm relaying it the best that I can.

Straken with Bodguards and vox caster(s) and an astropath
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord, Emperor's Tarot, Psychic Hood, 3 mystics
Infantry platoon command squad with a vox caster
Ministorum priest with Eviscerator
Another Platoon Command Squad with a vox caster
another of the same, but with Captain Al'Rahem, and 2 grenade launchers
Another PCS.

Aside from those....he had four big units of infantry squads with Lascannons, 4-5 sergeants each, a power weapon, melta-bomb, one with melta-guns, all with commisars...

Basically, I was fighting a foot-slogging IG list with furious charge and counterattack, frag grenades on all, and a re-rollable stubborn so that they would never break and run. Ouch.

Mission: Capture and Control. Getting the enemy objective was worth 10 points. Getting more killpoints was worth 7 points. Keeping your own objective: 4 points.

Par for the course, I lost the roll (all five games now) and Matt chose to deploy and go first. He was laughing to himself in his head because of how unfair this fight was going to be, and throughout the course of the game, kept apologizing to me for spanking on me so hard...although I was honestly in good humor and knew I was outgunned.

Matt chose to deploy first and kept his PCS units and inquisitor (along with a unit of 30+ and Al'Rahem) in reserve.



My counter deployment - I put my objective opposite his; you can't see his because its underneath a moving tray holding 30+ dudes. My hope was to bum-rush up the side where his objective is, burn the mob off, hunker down until the end of the game, and win.


I put a deffkopta on the left and one on the right, and turbo-boosted them across the field - my plan was to assault his guardsmen and keep those lascannons from firing on my battlewagons.

Guard Turn1: Matt opens up with his Lascannons - twin-linking them via orders. All three squads do nothing. Its capture and control, so he plans on sitting still.


Ork Turn1: I move my vehicles 6" forward - setting up for a turn2 assault (with a 28-30" range) but trying to stay out of range of his meltas. My left Loota squad opens up on the unit sitting on his objective. I wanted to kill Shrike because of his special rules, but didn't have visibility through some rock formations in the middle. My right loota squad opens up on Shrike and kills a couple of models - nothing important. Meanwhile, my deffkoptas assault into their respective flanks to try keeping the lascannon fire down. Here's the left flank assault.


And the right flank assault:


I actually took a wound on the right side headed into cover with my DT test; all together, he managed to do 1 wound to me with that unit, but that was enough. Poor judgment on how to use my Deffkoptas here, and now I'm down two deffkoptas.


Guard Turn2: He rolls for reserves and gets it all. He drops a PCS and the inquisitor in the far top left corner out of the way (they'll do nothing the whole game) and he's trying to avoid killpoints. Al'Rahem and a gigantic unit of dudes boil onto the table on my right flank to threaten my objective and the Lootas over there.

He knows where the pain is, and his lascannons open up on my burna battlewagon, and my KFF lets me down. Ghazghkull and burnas are now on foot, and not even at mid-field.


Al-Rahem and friends assault my Lootas, kill 9 of them....and I roll heroic leadership to stay in combat.

Ork Turn2: My gretchin come in from reserves and jump onto my objective. Meanwhile, I'm losing a flank and my important mobility is gone. My trukks break away from the KFF and both sweep in to help the Lootas fighting Al'Rahem, while my KFF trundles 12" towards his objective and my burnas+Ghazghkull roll terrible difficult terrain to get into the middle and in cover.


Matt is actually rolling dice incredibly well. INSANELY well. He actually started to use my dice because he didn't want me thinking that he was cheating, and the dice continued to favor him incredibly.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to suppress my flank:


I boil into combat and kill most of them. The PCS just outside combat went to ground because I dropped fire from both trukks into them. He's got five or 6 left, and on to his turn.



Guard Turn3: He opens up on my remaining battlewagon with his lascannons, and my KFF abandons me again, and explodes my battlewagon. He wounds several who fail their saves, then drops first rank fire, second rank fire to pour a multitude of shots into the rapidly shrinking boyz unit. I can either go to ground for a 3+ or stay up for a 4+ but either way I'm pretty sure I'm boned, so I stay up to try getting in some killy power next turn. In the middle of the table, the burnas took fire and ran. No point to a Waaaugh! here because they wouldn't have made it into combat before dying anyway - too far away.


We finish up the combat in my rear, leaving me with one Loota and two reduced boy squads.


Ork Turn3: I declare a Waaaugh! I've only got a few boys up front, but they're going to try their best! Assaulting into cover against a unit with counter-attack...


They would fail and die miserably.

In the rear, I'm left with a brutal choice. I have two empty trukks, two half-units of boyz, a unit of gretchin, 1 Loota, and a full unit of 15 Lootas on the table. I'm not capable of getting his objective, and he can't get to me in the next 2-3 turns to get mine either; he's got a pinned unit nearby that could go grab it....I can either turtle up and go to ground on my objective (worth 4 points) while my opponent gets 7 points for having more killpoints and 4 points for holding their own...or I can be orky and go balls to the wall. Orks don't sit and hide, so I plopped my gretchin on the objective, put my boys back into their trukks, and raced 18" forward.

I didn't take pictures of the rest, since the game was pretty much over anyway. =p

Guard Turn4: Lascannons opened up on trukks without KFF protection. They both explode. I'm already reduced in number from the previous assault, and I take casualties on both. One mob fails leadership and fails the reroll - they'll run off the board so I remove them. The other squad passes - but will get wiped out on turn5.

His pinned unit on my flank gets back up and goes to greet my gretchin - I didn't kill them; my opponent had been very sporting about how badly he was tabling me and I thought he deserved to finish tabling me. *laughing*

ork Turn4: I concede the table because I have only a unit of Lootas left in the far left corner away from everything who can't do anything meaningful.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Synopsis:

1. If I were to play this list again, I'm not sure I could beat it with my orks. I would do a few things differently, but its not like "Man, if I just hadn't made this mistake I would have won."
2. I should have either sent both deffkoptas up the same flank to pile in and hold a unit down until I could get there or kept them in reserves to try for a late game contest, or to kill his little units that were hiding in the corners from coming in on reserves.
3. Definitely should have rolled my battlewagons out 12" on turn1, not 6" - and I should have put them on a corner. Despite his lascannons having 72" range, in this case I should have still picked a side.
4. Loota placement is something I need to work on. I've been using them on Vassal, but never in a real game before - I didn't think to check their visibility to intended targets.
5. My other big mistake - when Ghazghkull's wagon went down, he should have popped out near the other wagon so that he could get in and keep advancing the next turn. Not sure if Ghazghkull piling in with all those boys would have made much difference, but he didn't get to kill anything all game.

All in all, I was mostly pleased with my first GT. I didn't win, and while it would have been nice to, there were a lot of veteran gamers with years and years of experience and GTs there - I saw some things that I didn't know how to deal with that experience will cure.

My next event is in two weeks in Atlanta (another 8 hour drive) and while it isn't quite GT sized, my orks should do well with the addition of deffrollas (and the point level is going up to 2k instead of 1850).

My next GT is in April - flying to California. I'm not sure if I should bring the Orks or bring my Dark Eldar yet - I suppose it will depend on scenarios.

You mean Straken, Not Shrike.
Bad luck, still like the 3 tablings and the 2 tabled results.
That was a bad matchup but there wasn't much you could do, better luck next time.

Lascannons have a 48" range, not 72". Hope that didn't matter in the game!

Lorek wrote:Lascannons have a 48" range, not 72". Hope that didn't matter in the game!

Hrm. I thought he said 72" - I might have deployed a bit differently to try keeping out of range of his far flank, but probably wouldn't have changed a whole lot.

I read all of your reports and found them informative.

Foot guard is one of those lists that ironically a lot of armies can actually out-shoot if they have enough long range shooting. You can't really match their LC, but you can outshoot their lasguns.

I'm anxious to see your 2k list and I'd love to see what you're going to be taking to the next one. Your experience with orks is helping validate my lists.

3-0 isn't bad for a first showing by any means especially when you're looking at tabled opponents. The event in ATL is currently standing at 26 attendees and Player A is looking to break in his DE army so it should be good times. Are you bringing Orks to the ATL event?

Yeah, thats not bad for your first GT.

Also, I miss all foot lists, especially with Orks. I know you can still do it, but its not the same for me.

oof, rough game. I share your trouble with Trailer Park Guard. I need to go first, or go home. It's rough.

Kevin Nash wrote: I read all of your reports and found them informative.

Foot guard is one of those lists that ironically a lot of armies can actually out-shoot if they have enough long range shooting. You can't really match their LC, but you can outshoot their lasguns.

I'm anxious to see your 2k list and I'd love to see what you're going to be taking to the next one. Your experience with orks is helping validate my lists.

I'm coming to the Slaughter in Space 2 next month to meet all the West Coast GT players. I expect to see you there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mastershake wrote:3-0 isn't bad for a first showing by any means especially when you're looking at tabled opponents. The event in ATL is currently standing at 26 attendees and Player A is looking to break in his DE army so it should be good times. Are you bringing Orks to the ATL event?

I'm bringing a *MUCH* different ork list. The models for this list were barely finished in time for the GT, and still didn't have some of the units I wanted.

Alternatively...I've yet to lose a game with my DE against anyone, and they seem nigh invincible. =p

I did notice that you put your lootas in a spot to get outflank charged. It looked like you might have been able to put all 30 in the middle forest. Remember you can put 8 of them in cover and string 7 outside of cover which can be very sneaky.

If you didn't get outflanked like that you could have shot them up with lootas and the 2 truck boy mobs could have been pushing forward with the rest of the force, allowing you to hit all at once.

Really that game comes down to whether or not he pops a battle wagon in the first 2 turns, since there was no big LOS blocking terrain in the middle to hide behind :(

Good Game.

Maybe, since he became sit in the objective, you could shoot with your loota´s troops in his lascannon troops, and trade pieces, because you shoot a lot more than he, you could took all his lascannons in a shooting fase, and each lascannon could only take on lootas from you.

It´s just a sugestion, i dont know if he has some special ability that allow he to shoot more than one LC shot per weapon.

Anyway your list wasn´t the list you´re accostumed to, as i saw in the posts you wrote.
May i ask you what you have in mind for a 1850pts ork army today?

thanks in advance.

I noticed your record says 9-0-2. doesn't that mean two draws? I thought you lost those games.


You said your new list is much different. How different, like completely different kind of Orks, or are you going to try something new in what you have?

rvianarpg wrote:Good Game.

Maybe, since he became sit in the objective, you could shoot with your loota´s troops in his lascannon troops, and trade pieces, because you shoot a lot more than he, you could took all his lascannons in a shooting fase, and each lascannon could only take on lootas from you.

It´s just a sugestion, i dont know if he has some special ability that allow he to shoot more than one LC shot per weapon.

Anyway your list wasn´t the list you´re accostumed to, as i saw in the posts you wrote.
May i ask you what you have in mind for a 1850pts ork army today?

thanks in advance.

That's an interesting point. Why not just sit back and trade shots? Aside from a few lascannons, the IG weren't terribly threatening outside of 24". Sure, you want to get over there eventually, but you've got time to dedicate several turns of Loota fire to removing units close to his objective. Advance the battlewagons empty, and walk behind them on the extreme flank.

I'll have to remember that for my Tyranids; thanks, rvianarpg.

Dash - thanks for sharing your experiences. You provided some excellent write-ups, and some thoughtful analysis. I don't play against orks a whole bunch, so it's useful to have this glimpse into your mindset.

Snikkyd wrote:I noticed your record says 9-0-2. doesn't that mean two draws? I thought you lost those games.


You said your new list is much different. How different, like completely different kind of Orks, or are you going to try something new in what you have?

Hrm....I thought the format was win/draw/loss (Good/middle/bad), not win/loss/draw. I haven't cracked the etiquette book open to find the formal definition methodology yet though...

Dashofpepper wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:I noticed your record says 9-0-2. doesn't that mean two draws? I thought you lost those games.


You said your new list is much different. How different, like completely different kind of Orks, or are you going to try something new in what you have?

Hrm....I thought the format was win/draw/loss (Good/middle/bad), not win/loss/draw. I haven't cracked the etiquette book open to find the formal definition methodology yet though...

(Generally, at least for professional sports, it's win/loss/draw; as draws are generally uncommon in things like football and baseball, this is easier to shorten to just win/loss, while remaining unambiguous.)

rvianarpg wrote:

Anyway your list wasn´t the list you´re accostumed to, as i saw in the posts you wrote.
May i ask you what you have in mind for a 1850pts ork army today?

thanks in advance.

At the end of the day, I'm a mechanized assault kinda guy. Hanging back for a turn or two seems weird to me, and fitting Lootas into my list has proven a strange experience to me.

The list I ultimately will end up using will have a few changes.

-Deffrollas on the battlewagons.
-Potentially +1 Battlewagon
-10 to 20 less Lootas. I either want two squads of five, or one squad of five and one squad of 15.
-At least one unit of rokkit warbuggies. http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=43927
-Experimentation with artillery are still in order.
-Experimenting with a nob unit is still in order.
-KFF Big Mek with a Powerklaw

I used to run a unit of 10 nobs with Ghazghkull....I decided it was close combat overkill in virtually every scenario. I took out the nobs, added more boys, other units. Using Ghazghkull without counting a nob as a troop choice (with a dedicated battlewagon transport no less) seems wasteful.

Ultimately, I think what is going to happen is that I'll have a unit of nobs (unknown number) in a battlewagon with the KFF Big Mek, and Ghazghkull with the burnas in the other battlewagon - when the nobs jump out to assault, the KFF will stay on board and run around klawing vehicles. He never gets out anyway - too easy to kill.

Congrats. I think you did very well in the GT, should be pleased. Your luck with this type of ork list is about the same as mine. I find it annihilates or gets annihilated, very little middle ground. That being said, I haven't had a chance to see if deffrollas will change that or add more consistency, but I sorta doubt it. The mech assault ork list is very much all or nothing, leading me to believe it's a table or be tabled result waiting to happen. Congrats, again, though. 3-2 is nothing to sneeze at against quality competition.

Skarboy wrote:Congrats. I think you did very well in the GT, should be pleased. Your luck with this type of ork list is about the same as mine. I find it annihilates or gets annihilated, very little middle ground. That being said, I haven't had a chance to see if deffrollas will change that or add more consistency, but I sorta doubt it. The mech assault ork list is very much all or nothing, leading me to believe it's a table or be tabled result waiting to happen. Congrats, again, though. 3-2 is nothing to sneeze at against quality competition.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I think there was much need for improvement. What I valued most was seeing the errors in what I was doing; often times I saw immediately the mistake I made after doing so and took note. I think one of the most important lessons here for me is that battlewagons are a 0" or 12" movement vehicle, and the decision for which needs to be based on what threats are available at which ranges.

IE, against a 48" lascannon, where the anti-tank is pretty much all lascannons....12" moves every turn - there's no reason to hold back. Against a multi-melta list....possibly different.

Cool movement trays that Matt was using: something for people to keep in mind if they want to talk about how taking that many models will handicap them for time. Did he mention where he got them?

Nurglitch wrote:Cool movement trays that Matt was using: something for people to keep in mind if they want to talk about how taking that many models will handicap them for time. Did he mention where he got them?

Yeah, they look like they hold around 15 models or so. People should really use these for Ork Hordes, it would make them much more viable.

The IG player may have been a little iffy with his orders. The codex states that all orders must be issued at the start of the shooting phase, company command squads before platoon command squads and so on.

Hi Dash, great report.

Alex bought the trays from galeforce nine.

olympia wrote:The IG player may have been a little iffy with his orders. The codex states that all orders must be issued at the start of the shooting phase, company command squads before platoon command squads and so on.

I'm pretty sure he did that. He announced that he was twin-linking all his lascannon units, rerolled his failed orders with his vox thingy, etc.

olympia wrote:The IG player may have been a little iffy with his orders. The codex states that all orders must be issued at the start of the shooting phase, company command squads before platoon command squads and so on.

Not sure why you'd think I played the orders wrong. Can you elaborate please? Straken gives orders, then Al'Rahem, then Jr squads. What doesn't make sense to you?

Yeah....like I said. =p

I don't remember any orders being given, then shooting, then more orders or anything; you twin-linked everything at the start, then started unloading. I don't know why 72" lascannons are stuck in my head, but that's something I should have known better.

Do different races have different ranged lascannons, missile launchers, etc?

Lances are 36". Lascannons are 48". Missile Launchers....48? Do they differ by army?

Dashofpepper wrote:Yeah....like I said. =p

I don't remember any orders being given, then shooting, then more orders or anything; you twin-linked everything at the start, then started unloading. I don't know why 72" lascannons are stuck in my head, but that's something I should have known better.

Do different races have different ranged lascannons, missile launchers, etc?

Lances are 36". Lascannons are 48". Missile Launchers....48? Do they differ by army?

Nope, a lascannon is a lascannon, and a missile launcher is a missile launcher. Bright/Dark Lances are both 36" (but not to be confused with the Zoanthrope's Warp Lance, which is an 18" psychic shooting attack).

Not really. There's not much in the game that's more than 48" in range, though. It's things like:

Some Artillery, mostly Imperial

Battlecannons and Vanquishers

Tau Railguns and Ion Cannons

Hunter-Killer Missiles (and kinda Tau Seeker Missiles, although here you're limited by the Markerlight)

A smattering of Psychic Powers

Prism Cannons (I think)

Lorek wrote:Not really. There's not much in the game that's more than 48" in range, though. It's things like:

Some Artillery, mostly Imperial

Battlecannons and Vanquishers

Tau Railguns and Ion Cannons

Hunter-Killer Missiles (and kinda Tau Seeker Missiles, although here you're limited by the Markerlight)

A smattering of Psychic Powers

Prism Cannons (I think)

The Tyranid Rupture Cannon is 48", as are Biovores.

Heh, sorry Janthkin, I was responding to Dashofpepper when he said, "Lances are 36". Lascannons are 48". Missile Launchers....48? Do they differ by army?". I just posted after you did.

The "Not Really" was not referring to your post.

Dashofpepper wrote:

rvianarpg wrote:

Anyway your list wasn´t the list you´re accostumed to, as i saw in the posts you wrote.
May i ask you what you have in mind for a 1850pts ork army today?

thanks in advance.

At the end of the day, I'm a mechanized assault kinda guy. Hanging back for a turn or two seems weird to me, and fitting Lootas into my list has proven a strange experience to me.

The list I ultimately will end up using will have a few changes.

-Deffrollas on the battlewagons.
-Potentially +1 Battlewagon
-10 to 20 less Lootas. I either want two squads of five, or one squad of five and one squad of 15.
-At least one unit of rokkit warbuggies. http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=43927
-Experimentation with artillery are still in order.
-Experimenting with a nob unit is still in order.
-KFF Big Mek with a Powerklaw

I used to run a unit of 10 nobs with Ghazghkull....I decided it was close combat overkill in virtually every scenario. I took out the nobs, added more boys, other units. Using Ghazghkull without counting a nob as a troop choice (with a dedicated battlewagon transport no less) seems wasteful.

Ultimately, I think what is going to happen is that I'll have a unit of nobs (unknown number) in a battlewagon with the KFF Big Mek, and Ghazghkull with the burnas in the other battlewagon - when the nobs jump out to assault, the KFF will stay on board and run around klawing vehicles. He never gets out anyway - too easy to kill.

Your lootas had a bad matchup in this tourney. They are amazing against light vehicles like rhino and chimeras. You saw very little of that. You saw monoliths and land raiders which they suck against and you saw infantry which they are fine against but hardly optimized in terms of how much they cost.

But yeah 15/15 is tough to run on foot when you're cutting the board in half with a bunch of mech. I've been running into the same issues the more mech I add. Fire support is unfortunately necessary, it's just finding that right number where you don't have deployment problems, retain LOS, and are still able to use them effectively. Buggies are a nice way to get around this problem. They just lack the amazing volume of fire that lootas do.