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Kevin Nash wrote:Your lootas had a bad matchup in this tourney. They are amazing against light vehicles like rhino and chimeras. You saw very little of that. You saw monoliths and land raiders which they suck against and you saw infantry which they are fine against but hardly optimized in terms of how much they cost.

But yeah 15/15 is tough to run on foot when you're cutting the board in half with a bunch of mech. I've been running into the same issues the more mech I add. Fire support is unfortunately necessary, it's just finding that right number where you don't have deployment problems, retain LOS, and are still able to use them effectively. Buggies are a nice way to get around this problem. They just lack the amazing volume of fire that lootas do.

Put the Lootas in battlewagons, maybe? (I see that around here more often than not, when I do see orks.) It seems to solve the footprint & cover issue, and provides a little elevation for avoiding some intervening cover. A Loota-wagon doesn't need too many of the upgrades that you'd buy for, say, Ghazzie's ride, and it adds to the AV 14 saturation effect.

I've advocated that list build to people who want a gunline (among other things) but it isn't the kind of list I'm looking for. I plan on sticking with mechanized assault for this list; mechanized shooting is an entirely different beast.

Dash-
I'm familiar with Alex fennel's blob guard list, he plays at my local gaming store fairly often. Though I've not actually played his guard list, I've seen him play it. Our lists are generally the same (except I wouldn't ever think of reducing loota numbers) and what it comes down to is KFF luck, of which you had none. Obviously he's going to pour all of his lascannons into the burna wagon, so it really just comes down to if you can get there or not. If you do its unbelievable amounts of guard death, but if you dont...

The blob list isn't a death sentence for orks. Alex's Space Wolf LR list that I've played seems to be much harder for my orks to deal with. Of course its foolish to tailor your list to counter one thing, but lootas are crucial. I agree with whats been said earlier, shoot it out with him with your lootas. In a capture and control mission I'd hope you could get more KPs trading deffguns with lasguns. If he wants to come get you then he'll have to move and you can swoop in with burna death.

Either way you did the best you could. Its important not to get overwhelmed by the sheer number of the damn guys. What it came down to is dice and they weren't on your side. Still, I'd be plenty happy with 3 massacres in a GT event. Good luck with your future tournaments.

Your lootas had a bad matchup in this tourney. They are amazing against light vehicles like rhino and chimeras. You saw very little of that. You saw monoliths and land raiders which they suck against and you saw infantry which they are fine against but hardly optimized in terms of how much they cost.

But yeah 15/15 is tough to run on foot when you're cutting the board in half with a bunch of mech. I've been running into the same issues the more mech I add. Fire support is unfortunately necessary, it's just finding that right number where you don't have deployment problems, retain LOS, and are still able to use them effectively. Buggies are a nice way to get around this problem. They just lack the amazing volume of fire that lootas do.

I noticed that too. Only 1 game had lots of light transports, 2 necron lists, a foot guard, and Salamanders with 2 Redeemers, and probably only 2 rhinos.

Yeah...I'm retailoring my list right now.

I took out 10 Lootas from one squad, and added a unit of warbuggies. Then I deleted the 16 boy squad and added a powerklaw to the KFF and added in 6 nobs....which I'm not happy with so I have more tailoring to do.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Alternatively...I've yet to lose a game with my DE against anyone, and they seem nigh invincible. =p

I'd like to point out that you hadn't lost a game with your Orks either until SVDM

Very nice reports though. I liked the pictures where available, and the commentary was short, sweet, and to the point. Thanks for taking the time to write them up. For what it's worth, I think having more assault units would have helped you out greatly. 2 trukk mobs and a battlewagon boyz mob is only 42 boyz + Ghaz + 15 burnas as the core of your army. Kinda small for that points level for Orks. Scrapping the lootas and a deffkopta (which rarely seemed to be effective for you) or two in exchange for another battlewagon with some meganobz seems like it would really enhance your punch, albeit at the cost of some ranged firepower.

Also, I don't know if it was possible but when your burnas had their wagon shot from under them you could have kicked the boyz out of theirs and put the burnas in the boyz' wagon. I like the idea of hopping them from ride to ride.

3 buggie squads full of twin-linked goodness are great, BUT they are fragile against anti-tank fire. Still, the fact they are fast and sport only one weapon means their effective firing range is 36 inches for rokkits or 48 for big shootas including their 12" cruising movement.

The buggy squad is fragile - but they'll still be getting a 4+ from the KFF - and the 24+ range weaponry that will be slugging at me on turn 1 is going to have to pick between wagons and buggies.

I realize the target saturation of wagons interferes with the Lootas - my new list is going to be two units of 5 Lootas each, and the extra tank killing ability is brought on by triple battlewagons, the reintroduction of the pink nobs, and the triple warbuggies.

Triple warbuggies means 3 extra units for opponents to worry about. With an additional 150 tacked onto an 1850 list, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to find the points to fit 315 points of Rokkit Buggies in, especially if you also drop all those Lootas.

Still, you would also want those Deffkoptas I assume....

After reading all of your reports (and boy were they fun to read) I'm glad you had a good time. After reading many of your orky posts it's good to see a player increasing his skills and tactics by going to these sort of events.

Well done, and I hope to read more of your battle reports in the future.

I think the triple buggie and Bw list sounds better. As fragile as they are, buggies are a great distraction. Plus they give better anti-tank.

WarOne wrote:Triple warbuggies means 3 extra units for opponents to worry about. With an additional 150 tacked onto an 1850 list, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to find the points to fit 315 points of Rokkit Buggies in, especially if you also drop all those Lootas.

Still, you would also want those Deffkoptas I assume....

My new list is over in the army list section; the Lootas dropped down to 5 man units to afford warbuggies, a third battlewagon, nobs...*laughing*

Great reports, Dash.

I actually played against this exact army when Alex brought it to our local tournament back in December. I managed to massacre it with my mech IG, but it was purely by luck after he failed back-to-back leadership rolls with a giant platoon full of guys which was so big and spread out that he was never able to get more than 6" from the Vendetta that he'd immobilized.

I have to wonder how much differently it would have gone if you'd gone first and had more assault units. I think your army would benefit greatly from dropping Ghaz and the Burnas for more bodies in truks. Ghaz + Burnas in the same wagon is just too obvious a target--I'd throw everything I have to put that unit on the ground ASAP, which, if successful, can end the game right then and there.

A local player here uses Stormboyz to excellent effect as a distraction unit. He runs about 20 with a PK Nob and it can pretty much always charge on turn 2, followed by the truks and wagons on turn 3. It applies the pressure early and forces enemies to make tough decisions, especially if they're using high volume S6/7 weapons for both anti-troop and anti-tank. Also, good players know how to restrict horde movement via tanks and bottlenecking, but having jump infantry in the mix completely negates this strategy. It can throw even experienced players for a loop.

My new list has two targets to choose from - Ghazghkull with the burnas, or the KFF with the Nobs. And a third battlewagon with boyz. We'll see how I can maneuver them around to block LOS.

Took a look at the Buggies you were thinking about using, in terms of the model, not sure it matters fully but you may want to consider modelling them with a "turret mounted" twinlinked rockit, instead of the hull mounted, which what the Deffcopta would yield. Only mentioning, since its a vehicle, instead of a jump infantry model, you might come across an occasional issue with facing, hull mounted vs turret mounted. Hope this makes sense

Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading through all of your battle reports. Helped with some long day's at work .

I've always found rokkit buggies frustrating, seems like they never hit when I want them to. Have you thought about putting in some kans with rokkit's instead?

Nice reports! I like that you included photos with them. Pretty sick. See you next tourney!

Warmaster wrote:Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading through all of your battle reports. Helped with some long day's at work .

I've always found rokkit buggies frustrating, seems like they never hit when I want them to. Have you thought about putting in some kans with rokkit's instead?

Glad to help!

As for kans....I *do* have kans, and they are awesome...but I don't believe that they belong in a mechanized assault list because of their slowness. When I assault, I'm going 18-30", and the kans can't keep up. I plan on using those rokkit buggies for screens, physical obstructions, preventing access to battlewagons, extra armor shots, and target saturation. They're pretty cheap, and will do what I need them to do, and they get a 4+ cover save from the KFF so good enough. :0

Nice reports.

As an Eldar player my biggest fear is lootas. They out-range me, and they are devastating to my units with their poor save.

That is the problem with building take-all-comers lists. Some units you need for some armies, and some you need for others, and we have to live with the choices we make (and hope we don’t get those bad match-ups). That is why you see so many Land Raiders at tournaments is because of Orks and a few other armies have no good answer for them so they become more valuable.

It is nice to see you trying to go from a big fish in a little pond to step up your game and be a big fish in a big pond.

I will see you then at the So Cal Slaughter and see what you think of the West Coast 40k scene.

Great!

You can't miss me, I have pink orks.

Nice report, thanks for posting. Where was this GT? Anywhere close to Raleigh?

extrenm(54) wrote:Nice report, thanks for posting. Where was this GT? Anywhere close to Raleigh?

Heh....8 hours away from Raleigh. I'll be at Minicon in November, but I don't think this is a particularly friendly gaming area given my experiences elsewhere. =p I've never even been to Hangar 18 Hobbies, and the owner has asked me not to join their league (which is the only 40k event there) because he's afraid I'll make it unfun for their new players because of my competitiveness. Thus goes my hope for getting my wife back into the hobby through a league. ><

Ya I think that lootas are still great for this list, and they sure helped with the nightlords in round 4. Versus the foot guard, well that is the kind of list that wins by surprising people--imho its not nearly as good now that the space wolf FAQ is fixed with counterattack/furious charge not stacking.

For example, if you had a unit of nobs with a painboy, or meganobs, other than las cannons the nobs could have gobbled whole big IG squads with ease.

Plus, as stated, lootas getting outflanked hurt a bit.

Dashofpepper wrote: I've never even been to Hangar 18 Hobbies, and the owner has asked me not to join their league (which is the only 40k event there) because he's afraid I'll make it unfun for their new players because of my competitiveness.

I just *have* to comment on this...

I can't believe any business owner would ask someone not to play because they are "too competitive." How the heck else do people get any better than seeing and playing the best out there?

I'm sure all the professional athletes out there never, ever, played bigger, older kids growing up, because it wouldnt be fair....

Natural competitiveness should kick in and the new players should be saying "Hell, Dash can pound me in a few games, but I'm gonna learn from those poundings and damn him I'll beat him in 6 months...."

Just goes to show that the gamer mentality can be a weird, weird thing.

Anyhoo, Great job on all the batreps, I took the time to read them all and really enjoyed them. Look forward to more stuff from you.

Dainty Twerp wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote: I've never even been to Hangar 18 Hobbies, and the owner has asked me not to join their league (which is the only 40k event there) because he's afraid I'll make it unfun for their new players because of my competitiveness.

I just *have* to comment on this...

I can't believe any business owner would ask someone not to play because they are "too competitive." How the heck else do people get any better than seeing and playing the best out there?

I'm sure all the professional athletes out there never, ever, played bigger, older kids growing up, because it wouldnt be fair....

Natural competitiveness should kick in and the new players should be saying "Hell, Dash can pound me in a few games, but I'm gonna learn from those poundings and damn him I'll beat him in 6 months...."

Just goes to show that the gamer mentality can be a weird, weird thing.

Anyhoo, Great job on all the batreps, I took the time to read them all and really enjoyed them. Look forward to more stuff from you.

Thanks.

And yeah...a bit weird. I religiously collect phone numbers and e-mails of area gamers, so I think the owner is kind of getting off to the wrong foot. I *really* wanted my wife in that league, to play against other 40k noobies.

I dont play orc's but reading through your report i have come to a better understanding of them thank you and thats really lame of the store owner, lol, i rarely see a persons of age 15 or less when i play at a store and if they are they are with a parent, and im sure a 15 year old can handle a beating in warhammer with out breaking down.

Nice showing Dash. I'm surprised you left a unit of Lootas that close to a short edge with flankers lurking, but it happens.

Look forward to hearing how you do in the future.

Dashofpepper wrote:Yeah....like I said. =p

I don't remember any orders being given, then shooting, then more orders or anything; you twin-linked everything at the start, then started unloading. I don't know why 72" lascannons are stuck in my head, but that's something I should have known better.

Do different races have different ranged lascannons, missile launchers, etc?

Lances are 36". Lascannons are 48". Missile Launchers....48? Do they differ by army?

Oddly enough Orks have different range missiles in terms of 'rokkits'. Awesome report Dash, and for your first GT it looked like you learned quite a bit on how to run your Orks.
As Kevin Nash pointed out, fire support is necessary in a lot of ways, but I think your inclusion of so many lootas really hurt you more than any mistake you made. Running another
battlewagon and some nobby assault units that don't die so easily would have meshed with your BW mech rush style. Nobs are assault overkill on most units but they also live long
enough to get into combat usually. The average boy seems so fragile in the current game.

I hope you play Orks more aggressively next time with less lootas, but I also love your DE army (at least the one I saw against Os in Vassal)

Dashofpepper wrote: Orks don't sit and hide, so I plopped my gretchin on the objective, put my boys back into their trukks, and raced 18" forward.

You cant move flat out 18 inch on the turn you embark or disembark.

striderx wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote: Orks don't sit and hide, so I plopped my gretchin on the objective, put my boys back into their trukks, and raced 18" forward.

You cant move flat out 18 inch on the turn you embark or disembark.

Well, if I can't then its news to me. =p

It didn't make a difference in the game though; I had already lost by that point and was just being a good sport. =p