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So i was bored and looking through the IG codex and noticed the rough riders. They seemed somewhat viable and when i did some point adding i noticed there only 105 points for 10 of em and then there special character dude is only 40 so 145. They seemed decent as a suicide unit and pretty cheap. This is basically my relentless hunt for some decent melee in every codex i've seen lately lol.

They can be.
Pardon the pun, but they are a one trick pony.
If you can get the chage off they will wreck almost any unit...Once after that you just have a fast moving Squad of Targets. A pair Grenade Launchers or Melta Guns for Tank Hunting can make them usfull after that 1st charge
My only probelm with them is I run the Creed/Kell combo and lots of Vox Casters, RR can't have tham and are the only that fail Leadership Checks

To me they look like something i'd just ram into anything that is remotely close to me and good at melee. say a carnifex, khorne bezerker squad, or even TH/SS terminator squads. maybe even have 2 of them for extra 1 trick pony

Don't use their leader mogul. Sure he gives them furious assault put you pay for it by having them run after and charge the closest unit. They are a nice counter attack unit. If you are playing a gunline army they really help with any squad that managed to make it to your line.

My only problem with them is I run the Creed/Kell combo and lots of Vox Casters, RR can't have tham and are the only that fail Leadership Checks

Well the Kell/Creed combo gives them ld10 which doesn't fail all that often IMO. Plus using the for the honour of cadia order will give them furious assault, which is nice to wound space marines on a 2+

well i can see where i could put them in a 2k list for counter charges as you mentioned. They do seem quite effective if there S5 and i believe it said I5 too with PW's? for 105 points that is to me a great bargain.

It's a great bargain if you get to apply it where you need it, and applied once only.

If you want 'some' longetivity, then give them special weapons, but in general they are a fire and forget unit.

I don't think Mogul's rage is an issue.
Slam them into reserve and bring them where you need them. 99% of the time rage is not an issue as you should be charging them at the closest threatening thing turn 2 and up.

Str 6 and I6 wrecks house.
It's their cheapness that is a huge draw IMO< but they do take up a whole FoC....that's 1-3 less Hellhound varients or Valk varients...

Yeah, they're not terrible units on their own but they do compete for those FA slots.

Keep them behind your chimeras, out of LOS, and then charge when a good target comes by. If you're like me and move your chimeras all the time, this may not work as well.

85 points for a small unit isn't bad at all - but then, you're getting into Straken territory, and that's probably a better choice if you want a CC element in your army.

What I consider the problem with them is if you sucessuly use them and kill somthing big, the next time you face that opponent they will become a prioraty and they can not survive being that high on the "Hit List"

Reserves help mitigate the durability issue when they are taske with counter charge or interception.

Else, they offer good target saturation, win/win if you ask me.

Good units, although I don't like the Hun's rage. Sanctjud makes a good point, but generally units that get that close are going to have been shot up a bit so Furious Charge is rather over-kill. Waiting for fickle reserve rolls and relying on what squads you completely wipe out to direct his rage is not a great way to game. More control is better, especially in an army that desperately wants the counter-attack.

Not to mention that mogul is half way towards creed in points, and creed will give you what mogul does plus so much more

@Darkhound:
Str 6 is nice vs. MEQs.
I6 mean striking before most MEQ Independant Characters.
Both are more suprising to MEQ players than anything else...which is a powerful tool .

Reserve rolls shouldn't be fickle if you have that advisor dude.

After he charges in...anything after is moot, so rage is IMO not a huge issue as by that time he's done his job...but I agree with Volkov that Creed is way nicer...but I'm just making a point that Mogul... is workable.<-- lack of a better word.

you all make some good arguments, maybe I'll test some RR out. Although it annoys me to no end that creed can't grant them scout. That alone would make them very viable

Losing control of your unit is bad, anyone who's tried using Frenzy in WFB can give a testament. When Mogul comes in from reserves he may decide to go sailing in on those two fleeing marines that passed alot of cover saves as opposed to that full size squad bearing down on you and making the statement that random nature of reserves helps your lack of control is like saying "If you hold onto the handlebars on a roller coaster it doesn't go as fast"

I've used RR under previous rules editions and they're pretty much unchanged, but the problem you run into with them is the craptacular IG WS. You'll almost never hit on anything but 4's and you only have 2 attacks each. All of this compounds with the fact that if you're running mech, they're the only non-mech out there meaning all of those meaningless shots that can't hurt AV12 now have nothing to do but pick on the poor guys. As an addendum here, if you consult the Rough Rider Rules, they don't gain S and I5, they "Strike at" S and I 5. The same wording as Power Fists striking at I1 which we all know can't be changed for any reason even furious charge. This means all Furious Charge does on RR short of a FAQ that says otherwise, is allow them to suck less ass after they've burned their hunting lances, you don't get S and I 6 with the lances.

The biggest crux of RR is the rest of the FA section, if you want to mop up a squad of MEQs in a single Turn a Banewolf will do just as good for a pretty marginal point increase, and of course Vendettas have become the mandatory FA fodder.

What Mastershake said.

quick question, do they only get the bonus if they charge, or is it the first round of combat period?

@Grundz:
Hunting Lances?
It says it clearly in the unit description.

based on more than 25 games experience on using them (including tourney play), RR used well are a viable option in the FA slot of the IG codex.

People though are missing 1 important point. Besides the obvious use of the hunting lances in assault, do not overlook the fact that RR come with krak grenades standard. The implication is very clear, RR CAN (and this is based on actual experience not theory) do a decent job in tank busting in the assault phase, assuming the target is not a land raider or monolith or dreadnought, of course. So in situations where they have finished off or won a combat versus a unit (depleting their one shot lances) and in the next turn they survive any counterattack, they can go tank hunting. Their long reach means you can preferably select vehicles which did not move, or moved at combat speed, and then assault these for a s6 attack versus av10 rear armor. This may prove useful if your shooting did not get through cover saves of the said vehicle, as in assault there are no cover saves.

If absolutely necessary, the additional attack provided by the hunting lance during the first charge means you can do a lot of s5 attacks also versus rear armor 10. So do not hesitate to do this as an option (example, versus eldar skimmers, as even the inititiative 5 of the lances may not be enough versus some uber fast eldar HTH units. A lot of s5 attacks will be needed versus these fast targets) if shooting fails to bring them down (and as any veteran IG player knows, this DOES happen)...

As long as the RR go down in a blaze of glory, attack, attack, attack!

And yes keeping them in reserve is an excellent option versus enemies who will want to assault you, as then you can select where the RR come in in order to reinforce a particular point in your lines...against shooty enemies then advance them behind the chimera wall (if you play mech or hybrid lists), and they hopefully survive to do damage by turn 2, or become a target and absorb fire which could have targetted a more valuable unit..

In my opinion, the player MUST have the ability to choose targets using RR, as their lances should be used for the right targets. Using Mogul Kamir removes this option, hence I would not endorse using him. If you want additional bonuses, then have them assault within the radius of Straken's Furious charge buff...


I am very proud and satisfied with Harley's Raiders (my RR unit). They have, and will continue to, serve me well.

When Mogul comes in from reserves he may decide to go sailing in on those two fleeing marines that passed alot of cover saves as opposed to that full size squad bearing down on you and making the statement that random nature of reserves helps your lack of control is like saying "If you hold onto the handlebars on a roller coaster it doesn't go as fast"

I'm not seeing it...why would you risk shooting up a squad that you want to charge with newly entered Rough Riders?
That is a failure of the player to see that occurance, not the unit's fault.

I've run with some spawn and I've run with alot of spawn...it's not that bad when you plan ahead...which goes for alot of things... much like the crazy dread, lesser daemons, possessed...etc.

Loss of control over a unit is only an issue if the player didn't plan ahead accordingly.
The bonus for Khan wanna-be is meh I will admit. Fearless for a GEQ unit is so-so with the defensive qualities they have, but at least you know they will stick around, while FC can either be a waste of the points or a godsend...ie wounding Wraithguard/Nurgle Bikers/Tyranid Monstrous Creatures on 4's...and going faster or at the same time as them.

So, it's a preference issue, entirely functional with or without rage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Note, the RR's get at most 2 attacks on the charge with Hunting Lances, just saying it's nice but not over the top. Quite balanced if you ask me.

Why bother with special characters in a throw away unit?

Rough riders are a disposable heat shierld, and are very good at their job, they charge wreck a unit, pretty much any unit, then die. Eldar exarchs will take them apart even with I6 charge, as will stealers. But most of the nasty assault stuff in marines, chaos and ork armies can be smacked down by them.

The only thing to note is that whilwe they can kill the lone dedicated assault unit, the rank and file of such aremies are good in the assault against guard, so Rough Riders are no magic salve against assault.

They are dirt cheap and damn nasty, and highly recommended, but wont break the game.

As an addendum here, if you consult the Rough Rider Rules, they don't gain S and I5, they "Strike at" S and I 5. The same wording as Power Fists striking at I1 which we all know can't be changed for any reason even furious charge. This means all Furious Charge does on RR short of a FAQ that says otherwise, is allow them to suck less ass after they've burned their hunting lances, you don't get S and I 6 with the lances.

I don't have my BRB in front of me but doesn't the powerfist explicitly say it cannot be modified from I1?

Volkov wrote:I don't have my BRB in front of me but doesn't the powerfist explicitly say it cannot be modified from I1?

I think the point is by the Hunting Lances stating they "strike at I5" that Furious Charge won't modify it for the same reason that Powerfists "strike at I1". The rule states it strikes at a given Initiative... period.

Does it not also state that they strike at twice their strength? And we know that can be modified. But if anyone who has a rulebook can look up the wording of powerfist it would shed some light on this, although Mogul would take the cake as the most useless special character ever created if FC does nothing

But sane opponents will allow you your furious charge bonus. If they can't benefit from it, that SC is worse than absolute useless, he is harmful for your own army, and while GW have created harmful SC's before (space pope), I hardly think it is the case in a book written for 5th ed

The best description of RRs I have seen is that they are cheap, pretty good at doing something the rest of the army can’t, but take up a very valuable fast attack slot.

IMO if they were elites it would be a no brainer selection. But alas, I think they get opportunity costed out of most lists.

There also several threads on this topic already

Just compare hunting lances to plasma guns and the question becomes simpler.

Both wound MEq's better than half the time, and ignore armor. Both do an okay, but not great chance of killing light vehicles (S7 vs. AV11 or 12 vs. S6 always hitting AV10 rear). Both get two attacks against a target if your models started 18" away from the enemy at the start of your turn (slightly longer for lances). Really, they're basically identical weapons.

If you spend 85 points for riders, you get 8 dudes with 17 plasma equivalent attacks that happen all at once (and ignore cover). If you spent that on a plasma gun SWS, you'd get 6 dudes with hypothetically up to 36 plasma attacks (more likely more like 18 or less), but they can only do 6 at a time.

With the riders, you risk overkill, and wasting points, while with the SWS you risk underkill, and having big, nasty things still on the board in inopportune places. Given how cheap the riders are, I'd say that the "waste" from overkill is small compared to the real risk of that carnifex surviving until the end of the game (or whatever).

Of course, as mentioned, you have to have the FOC slots to handle them. That said, I'd ask what else you're using them for? Rough riders do the exact same job as both hellhound and bane wolf, and almost every variation on the sentinel. Given that they do everything except for the lascannon madness of the vendetta and the transport capacity of the valkyrie, you're really not "wasting" the slot when you take riders. Plus, they are so cheap that you can (and should if you take them at all) take 3 full-sized squads in every game, and still have plenty of points left over for other stuff.

Oh, and I agree about not wasting points on the special character. Really, what benefit are you actually going to see to +1S on their big attack? What out there is going to survive a 21-lance charge, that having a much more expensive, 21-lance +1S charge will be able to knock out?

The hunting Lances don't modify the guardsmen stats, the weapons always strike at a given stat regardless. If the lances said "+2 Strength and Inititive" I would agree absolutely that they get it, but GW instead chose the more complex statement of "strike at Strength and Initiative 5". It's a set value that has no relation to the models stats or any buffs that apply to them.

The Powerfist has a blurb about not getting better than I1, but it's a clarification, not a seperate rule.

Unless a FAQ says otherwise, FC will only affect rough riders if they aren't using hunting lances. The fact that they went out of their way to use a more complex wording tells me they didn't intend for these guys to get FC.

Mogul still makes the unit hit harder, he has more attacks than a sergeant, slightly improved WS and on average gets more attacks for charging.

Unless a FAQ says otherwise, FC will only affect rough riders if they aren't using hunting lances. The fact that they went out of their way to use a more complex wording tells me they didn't intend for these guys to get FC.

Mogul still makes the unit hit harder, he has more attacks than a sergeant, slightly improved WS and on average gets more attacks for charging.

Quick question who is striking at S5 I5? Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it is the rough rider. And then FC gives the rough rider 1 more S and I. So given as there are no restrictions with modifiers on the hunting lances as there is with a powerfist...and that I view Mogul as crystal clear RAI for FC stacking with hunting lances over "complex wording" as why they should not, which if I may point out if ambiguous at best.

Now I realize this is hardly official but here is INAT stand
+IG.44.02 -- Q: Do Rough Rider Hunting Lance
Attacks benefit from the Furious Charge special rule
(effectively making them Strength and Initiative 6)?
A: Yes they do [clarification].

Awesome anti-meq squad. When the rhino rush survivors make it to your gunline, they are excellent at inflicting solid damage on marine squads (plague-o's too!), and if you charge the right unit another squad will be blocked- walk around the fight, or join in the combat and finish off the one trick ponies- to be left in front of the Leman Russ's during the IG turn? Not pretty.

Rough Riders are S6 I6 with Mogul on the first charge due to furious charge.