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I've been browsing most of Dakkadakka for the past few days, including the article section and did a general Dark Eldar search on the Tactics forum, but have turned up little in the way of DE listbuilding and general tactics advice (I did find a 3 part tactics article on it, however it's largely incomplete and most of the info seems out of date, as it references things from the old codex). Personally I have a few questions about the army:

1. Wyches and Bloodbrides. How do you get the most out of these units? Their relatively high point cost coupled with a low, low armor save makes them seem like a rather flimsey choice. I keep seeing people swear by them though. The most effective way (bar hugging terrain) it seems to deliver these maidens is to mount them in a Raider, cruise on forward and ditch them close enough, roll for fleet and hope they get within charging range of the enemy. Packing a Haemonculus also seems to be the way to go, and since I really dont have a HQ down, I think this may be an alternative.

2. HQs. I heard the Duke, Malys and Vect are among some of the better ones, with the Baron up there too due to his abilities and taking hellions as troops. I was wondering if I should choose one of these big baddies (the Duke certainly seems to be good for his points) or go with a Build-an-Archon route or just spam Haemonculus to get the FnP for a bunch of troops. I overlook the Haemonculus because he's mainly used for Arcane items, which are (for the most part) one-use, and I tend to make HORRIBLE decision on when to use these items. If going with the Archon, are any of his court worth taking too or are they just a waste of points?

3. Speaking of Vect, how does his Dais hold up? It's basically a Ravager with 13 armor all around and transport capacity. With a mounted trueborn squad armed with Blasters, it's a roving platform of destruction. However the whole lot totals to about 600 points, VERY much for a single vehicle unit (nearly triple that of a Land Raider's cost, with less armor but more armor penetrating weapons). Is it worth taking in a game of 1500? Also, can the Dais take any upgrades or is it basically a naked Ravager?

4. In the Elites section, which are better for anti-craftworld Eldar work? Incubi or Harlequins? I've seen Harlequins utterly annhilate enemy troops, while Incubi and their profile is just plain scary. Trueborn is not that worth it for me, as my friends possess very little in the way of tanks and I plan to spam Ravagers anyways.

5. How viable are Haemonculus Covens and Wych Cult themed armies? (basically these armies are largely restricted to their respective unit choices, which are Wracks and Grotesques led by a Haemonculus with Pain Engines for support, while the Wyches are led by a succubus and supported by Hellions and Reavers, and basically anything in a wychsuit) I love themed armies and after my core Kabal is done I will definately go after one of these fun options.

I'm really getting into the DE and wanna try out their playstyle, so I hope I can get some answers fast. I'm really excited.

EDIT: Oh crap I posted it in the wrong forum. Can a kind mod move it to the 40K tactics forum?

This thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/327831.page

may be of interest to you.

1. I like my wyches with hammies, always. I usually take a hekatrix with an agoniser and two shardnets. They do pretty good, even against MEQ. Depending on what you roll for combat drugs, they're just monsters! That second pain token is great too.

2. There should be enough room in your lists fr both hammies and an archon, usually. Both are great for certain things.

1, wyches are fairly cheap so dont expect them all to surive. They die rather badly in shooting, maybe take a second unit to give them cover or take the raider

2. Haemis are cheap and come with a pain token. Some of the wargear is really nice so you can learn to deal with the fact they are not that good in CC

3. Vects Dais sucks. Its too expensive, cant take vehicle upgrades and cant fire all its weapons when it moves 12" He himself is really nasty

4. Incubi can kill anything but Banshees, which means they are not that good against craftword lists. Harlies do a much better job aginst banshees because they are cheaper, have an invunerable save and still put off enough beatstick to drop banshees.

1. I run them both, just depends on my mood. Wyches are a bit cheaper and can do basically the same thing, with slightly less attacks. They are great tarpit units for those elites that he really wants to get into CC with your Warriors, and they are good for tying up long range terrors a.k.a Dark Reapers. Bloodbrides are better set for a larger horde squad as they get more attacks than the regular wyches and can snag a third wych weapon at 9 models. I personally use Hydra Gauntlets on both because my rolling and rerolling is horrible, so the extra dice from the attacks usually evens me out. Plus, its always fun to look at someones face when you tell them that those 3 Hydra Gauntlets are netting you an extra 13-18 attacks this turn!!! They can have the downside of rolling low also, so it makes them a bit of a gamble, but still fun!

2. I personally love running Duke Sliscus. I bring a 9 man Trueborn squad with shardcarbines and attach the Duke in a Raider. If I have the points, I throw in 2 Splinter Cannons, and go to town. They are a great anti-horde unit with 29 shots on the move, and 33 shots standing still. With the Duke they become 3+ to hit and wound, so they get really scary to orks and nids, and can reliably kill off MEQS. the Duke also adds a good CC punch to the squad, which isn't horrid in CC, but isn't that great either.

3. The Dias is ok, but I wouldn't recommend it for smaller points games. If its not at least 2k or above, its usually not worth its points. One good advantage of it is that opponents are either going to try hard to destroy it, or they are going to ignore it, depending on the threat they see from it.

4. Elites, I love my trueborn and Bloodbrides, as I said in earlier spots. Incubi can be extremely nasty against anything T4 or lower with a lower init than them, and can reliably hurt, if not destroy T5 or T6 in a protracted combat. As far as the Banshees comment, they can't swing before them, but they will hurt them with the Bloodstone quite well, and if the Banshees don't kill the whole squad, they will pound them into the ground with what is left after the banshee assault. They should not be going after Banshees anyway, they should be headed after Seer Councils and Fire Dragons. But the ones they shine against the most, IMHO, is Scorpions. They will swing at the same time, will throw just as many if not more attacks as a same sized or slightly bigger squad, will get the benefit of the Klaivex power for the 6's if you take it, and unlike the Scorpions, the whole squad is carrying power weapons, so while you get your 3+ armor save against the Scorpions, the Scorpions just die as you cut them in half. Plus you wound on 3+, they wound on 4+.

5. Covens and Cults can be very powerful when built right, and can be used just as effectively as Kabals. They both lack a bit in the Shooting department when compared with Kabals (if you are running a complete Coven or Cult only list) but usually make up for it with the nasty CC units they can throw at the enemy.

Thanks for the Article link Manchu, and thanks to all who gave advice here. I think I have a good idea of how i want to run my army now. Going with Sliscus because the guy just grows on me, and he's really cheap but benefits the entire army.

The idea I have right now basically has Sliscus mounted in a raider with a retinue of Kabalites, and at least one squad of Wyches mounted in a Raider for close range support (and to get the most out of Sliscus's Contraban rule) backed by two ravagers and some more Kabalites to make a mockery of my friend's Avatar and Wraithlord.

Sounds like a decent list, if you have the points, try putting splinter racks on the Raider with Duke and his Warriors. Then you have 3+ to hit and wound with rerolling missed hits!!!

MechaEmperor7000:

Greetings! There's a link called "DE Advice" in my signature that might be worth a read to you.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I'm probably the "winningest" Dark Eldar player on the planet. Arrogance or self-confidence, your choice - as long as it means you take heed of my advice - Most DE players that I run across on Dakka and in tournaments get abused. Very badly.

I don't want to get into any huge arguments or alienate anyone, so I'll just cast a general net of "I disapprove of much of what's being said here."

HOWEVER!! Without knowing what you want out of your army, it wouldn't be particularly useful for me to start preaching about how to play them competitively. So I have two questions for you.

1. What do you want out of an army? Something that you would like to be tournament capable, or just something to goof off with friends at your FLGS?

2. What theme would you like in your army?

Taken from this thread where someone asked the same question: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/347986.page

Just start from scratch, and check one of these for me so I can give you some direction:
[ ] I want a maximized firepower shooting army.
[ ] I want a very lethal ranged army with some close combat support.
[ ] I want a good mix of shooting and assault in my army.
[ ] I want an assault based army with enough ranged anti-tank to open vehicles and soften targets for my assaults.
[ ] I want a mostly assault based army capable of dealing with vehicles on the assault too.
[ ] I want a trick army that will take people by surprise.
[ ] I want my enemy HQ to be Steven Spielberg so that I can flay apart his soul over a thousand years for the abomination he created in Indiana Jones 4.

This is basically my armylist: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/352029.page

I prefer using kabalite troops as opposed to wyches or wracks, and I would like to go mech heavy. Sliscus and Vect are currently my two fav characters out of the book, so I would like to use them in the lists, especially Vect's (land)raider, the Dais of Destruction.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:This is basically my armylist: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/352029.page

I prefer using kabalite troops as opposed to wyches or wracks, and I would like to go mech heavy. Sliscus and Vect are currently my two fav characters out of the book, so I would like to use them in the lists, especially Vect's (land)raider, the Dais of Destruction.

Hrm. I'm having a hard time coming up with any ideas for lists for you using those two HQs. I'm a competitive gamer, and neither of them really "fit" that MO.

Sliscus is a mixed bag, and pretty much requires that an entire army be built around his abilities. On the downside, DE vehicles should never be deep-striking, and you can be sure that there are points incorporated into his profile to account for that ability....and I generally don't like taking HQs for whom I don't use all the abilities. Like Ghazghkull; I wouldn't *prefer* having a nob squad in my army, but I'm wasting points if I don't when I use him.

Vect *hrm* with a Dias of Destruction *shudder* is a whole bunch of bad mojo. My biggest issues with him:
1. He's *really* expensive.
2. His Dias is *REALLY* expensive.
3. If you take the Dias, you're required to fill it up. An Archon's court isn't a very good competitive choice, and an Incubi unit is really expensive. Wyches maybe? 8 wyches and a Haemonculi? That's probably what I'd do.
4. His ability to seize on a 4+ is....unnerving. DE thrive on the alpha strike. If I don't win the roll to go first, I reserve and alpha-strike from reserves. What are you going to do with a 4+ seize? Deploy to go first and hope to seize? If you don't seize, then its going to be a turkey shoot. But if you don't try seizing, why use Vect?

He just leaves too many uncomfortable squirmings in the pit of my stomach. Are you fixated on these two?

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:This is basically my armylist: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/352029.page

I prefer using kabalite troops as opposed to wyches or wracks, and I would like to go mech heavy. Sliscus and Vect are currently my two fav characters out of the book, so I would like to use them in the lists, especially Vect's (land)raider, the Dais of Destruction.

So you like the duke, but don't want units that get drugs? Duke's shooting buff only helps one unit, and the Derp strike is pretty awful honestly. No beacon deep strikes of units with rapid fire weapons riding in huge paper airplanes is a recipe for a disaster that I don't even want to think about playing out. Unless you are going combat drug heavy, leave the duke at home.

Leave vect at home below 2k (and even then its a stretch with the dais). Vect and the dais is more of an apoc pointed unit. 440 without the required 9 other guys is just too much.

First off Dash's statement is the best. We need to know what intruges you.

Personnally I run kalabites in raiders with ravagers and reaver jetbikes along with a nameless archon. IMO eldar in HTH have no business so I want firepower (or blade jetbike power). The concentration of DL gives you enough firepower to make most enemy vehicle-based FP ineffective or dead. While the splinter cannons make every MC quake with fear. (Toughness? What is toughness?)

The only variation I play with is trueborn or incubi to back up the archon.

The reavers, causing casualites first, either will earn a pain token or make it very easy for a kalabite squad to earn one early. While T3 FNP is no guarantee, it makes your unit that much more resilient.

I am loathe to put points into any special character as the points can usually be better spent.

Raiders and Ravagers are what I'm currently in love with. Not so hot on the Reaver Jetbikes though. Definately kabalite Warriors, and I would love to squeeze at least one HQ with a Shadowfield in.

I'm considering the Duke because he basically has what I would give to a normal Archon anyways, and he actually buffs someone in shooting, which a Normal Archon doesnt do. His points cost is also more or less reasonable. I'm mainly iffy on using Wyches, because I've never had success with moderately priced but poorly armored units.

Havent used blood brides yet, but i do run 2 units of wyches simply for the quality models.
Actually do pretty well too
Keep in mind that if you throw a skinman with them he does not have fleet though.




Unless your going for a themed army, most special characters arent all that special.
Ive tried lelith, and loved the results until she had to wound T4+, i then cried a little inside.

Also tried Draz since ive had the model since it was released.
Granted his points are somewhat stupidly high, and in no case does he usually earn them back quickly, but he is nice.
A character with T4 and eternal warrior is a breath of fresh air, and he also hits like a sledgehammer.
Throw him in a unit of incubi on a raider and they do pretty well.
Just a case of picking your fights as you have allways had to do.

I usually run 3-6 skinmen though depending on points, simply to grab FNP as quickly as possible and work my way from there.





Vect is nasty on points for wht you get IMO.
Granted its AV 13, but by the reading of it you cant take upgrades.
You also need to fill that raider, which adds up even more.
All in all, he can do alot of damage, but it seems to be situational.
I may test him, but for now im sticking with whats working for me.




I allways run a unit of incubi, but thats simply because alot of players near me run marines of different types.
Last thing i want is S3 against power armour and T4, so the incubi seem pretty much the best choice for me.




Pain coven is possible, but would lack anti-tank. (well, reliable anti-tank)
Urien would make my 1st HQ with 3 basic skinmen taking the 2nd.
Wargear wise i would simply tinker until im happy with a layout.

Elites give you Grotesques, which while they dont look too good on paper, ive had alot of luck with them.
Since i run them in a list with Urien, i dont mind upgrading them to S6.
also, 4 in a raider with him mean 2 pain tokens so S7 on the assault.

Wracks are pretty basic IMO, have run a few units of them, but they dont usually do alot for me, except eat stray rounds.

The talos is nice on paper and in game.
Had alot of fun running 2 of them.
The chronos is the real star though if your running a pain list.
It should be buffing units as quickly as possible to help them when needed.

all in all, it really struggles against armour since you have a few lances from raiders, S7 grotesques and a few trinkets on the skinmen.
The talos tends to draw alot of fire and never make it to armour though.



Wych armies wouldnt be soo bad since you can haywire armour to death with relative ease, they do however struggle to live unless theres a safe plae to hop out and terrain to cover them.

Also, keep in mind your S3 with everything (except helions), so plague marines and the likes are a real pain in the arse to kill.

All in all, i just think they will struggle with solid T4 armies.
Granted you have tons of attacks and high initiative, but 5+ to wound most of the time really does hurt the list.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Raiders and Ravagers are what I'm currently in love with. Not so hot on the Reaver Jetbikes though. Definately kabalite Warriors, and I would love to squeeze at least one HQ with a Shadowfield in.

I'm considering the Duke because he basically has what I would give to a normal Archon anyways, and he actually buffs someone in shooting, which a Normal Archon doesnt do. His points cost is also more or less reasonable. I'm mainly iffy on using Wyches, because I've never had success with moderately priced but poorly armored units.

Nine Wyches with haywire grenades and a single razorflail inside of a raider with a lance and a flickerfield, accompanied by a haemonculi with a shattershard and a crucible of malediction provide several things for you, most of which you can get nowhere else in your army.

1. The Haemonculi passing over the pain token means that they now are 6+ armour, 4+ Feel No Pain if they get exploded out of their transport. If they're voluntarily on the ground, they're probably sitting on a 4+ cover and 4+ Feel No Pain. If they're in close combat, they have a 4++ Invulnerable save followed by a 4+ Feel No Pain. They are now *MUCH* more survivable than the old wyches, despite the change in wording to the dodge 4++, which is unfortunate. No more assaulting vehicles and getting a 4++ unless you're also multi-assaulting an infantry unit.

2. The haemonculi is UBER powerful.
A.) The crucible of Malediction doesn't act directly in support of the wyches, but it is a powerful anti-psyker weapon. I preferred the unlimited range ability to kill one psyker in the old codex compared to the new 3D6 range ability to kill unlimited pskyers....but with Grey Knights being the new flavor of the month, where EVERY MODEL, even vehicles are psykers, you have an incredibly potent weapon in your arsenal - before the release of GK, it was a sort of "take it or leave it" for a take-all-comers list; it was very effective against Tyranids, but DE don't need help wiping the floor with Tyranids....leaving mostly librarians and Eldar to use it against....and Eldrad gets to reroll leadership more often than not. But with GK now, its going back into my mandatory list inclusion for every army build that wants to be TAC.
B.) The shattershard. My favorite piece of wargear in the DE codex. Using it calls for selection of the individual models under the template to take the toughness tests - So you can snipe out Independent Characters, Nobs with powerklaws, Mark of Wulfen equipped Space Wolves, Powerfists....while it blows that Eldrad is T4 instead of T3, you have a 33% chance to just remove him from the game. Boom. Same with most Marine ICs and SCs. You can possibly neutralize critical elements of a squad that your wyches are about to assault to make them have an easier time of it. I typically either get my Haemonculi out of one side of my raider and the wyches on the other (so that they're 2" apart, or leave the haemonculi inside to go mess with something in subsequent turns.
C.) Having wyches start with feel no pain, and having the speed to dictate where they assault (mine get a first turn charge more often than not in pitched battle and spearhead scenarios as long as my opponent deploys along their deployment line) means that from turn 2-3+, they're also going to be I7 and S4 on the charge, in addition to whatever drugs you happen to roll.

3. Haywire grenades: Nothing else in your army is nearly as effective against vehicles, ESPECIALLY against Blessed Hull and Monoliths.


Don't get me wrong - you can't roll with a wych cult like you used to be able to, but a unit or two of wyches is a powerful complement to a Dark Eldar army.

Galador wrote:IMHO, is Scorpions. They will swing at the same time, will throw just as many if not more attacks as a same sized or slightly bigger squad, will get the benefit of the Klaivex power for the 6's if you take it, and unlike the Scorpions, the whole squad is carrying power weapons, so while you get your 3+ armor save against the Scorpions, the Scorpions just die as you cut them in half. Plus you wound on 3+, they wound on 4+.

Your numbers are wrong.
Scorpians have 3 attacks base while incubi have 2 attacks. Scorpians also have Str 4 so they wound on 3+ as well. Scorpians also cost 16 points while Incubi cost 22 points, which means you can have 37% more scorpians.
Incubi do hit on 3+, and they ignore armor saves, but scorpians will be rolling a lot more dice and can shoot the incubi before assault.

I'm still going through the massive Wall-O-Text by Dash and Jack, but I just would like to mention that I emailed GW, and they confirmed that you cannot take upgrades on the Dais, so it's both RAW and RAI now. I originally hoped that he could give his Dais some options so that it wouldnt be as big of a wet tissue as it was (13 with a hull that big is gonna draw alot more fire than a Ravager or Raider).

After getting through all that I should mention that I tend to face CC eldar here alot, so I'm even more iffy on the Wyches. Scorpions, Banshees, a charging wraithlord, Warp Spiders, and the Avatar are some CC opponents I do NOT want to tangle with. However I might run a squad with a cheap Hammy for a good CC squad in a Raider.

I'm particularly fixated on Vect ever since I played DoW Soulstorm. I just like him. However given the revelations on the Dais I might run him on foot, with his "Dais" counting just as another Ravager in my army, less I play a 2000+ game.

Dashofpepper wrote:A.) The crucible of Malediction doesn't act directly in support of the wyches, but it is a powerful anti-psyker weapon. I preferred the unlimited range ability to kill one psyker in the old codex compared to the new 3D6 range ability to kill unlimited pskyers....but with Grey Knights being the new flavor of the month, where EVERY MODEL, even vehicles are psykers, you have an incredibly potent weapon in your arsenal - before the release of GK, it was a sort of "take it or leave it" for a take-all-comers list; it was very effective against Tyranids, but DE don't need help wiping the floor with Tyranids....leaving mostly librarians and Eldar to use it against....and Eldrad gets to reroll leadership more often than not. But with GK now, its going back into my mandatory list inclusion for every army build that wants to be TAC.

Keep in mind that the Crucible only zaps individual GK models (albeit squad leaders), not entire squads. It also appears to have no effect on vehicles, but this may change with an FAQ.

Fetterkey wrote:
Keep in mind that the Crucible only zaps individual GK models (albeit squad leaders), not entire squads. It also appears to have no effect on vehicles, but this may change with an FAQ.

it zapps individual models, but all models in range must test as each is a psyker. The crucible does not force a psykic test, it forces leadership tests to every model. This works the same way against Seer councils. Thus a squad of 10 PAGK in range will have to make 10 LD tests, 9 for the squad members and 1 for the leader(on his higher leadership). Overall it is likely that perhaps 3 will fail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fetterkey wrote:It also appears to have no effect on vehicles, but this may change with an FAQ..

as of right now it needs to be FAQed because vehicles autodie.
they are psykers.
thus they must pass a Ld test or be removed.
they cannot pass a Ld test.
they are removed.

Very likely to be changed in an FAQ as this is by far the best way to kill a land raider.

Well.....

1. Hulksmash told me that the "Psyker" rule is picked up by the squad - such that the entire squad is treated as a psyker, not individual models. If this is true, then it would be one test per squad for the entire one.

2. GK Vehicles not having leadership to test against the crucible doesn't mean that they are automatically removed. It means that it wasn't adequately addressed in the rules. If you can force pinning or morale and point to a rhino to take the leadership test for it, the owner is going to say, "Irrelevant, I'm a vehicle." Now we have a unique entity that is both a vehicle AND a psyker. It seems to be that the most common sense way to play this would be to have the vehicles use LD10 as their test - which is their psychic leadership profile.

Dashofpepper wrote:Well.....

1. Hulksmash told me that the "Psyker" rule is picked up by the squad - such that the entire squad is treated as a psyker, not individual models. If this is true, then it would be one test per squad for the entire one.

2. GK Vehicles not having leadership to test against the crucible doesn't mean that they are automatically removed. It means that it wasn't adequately addressed in the rules. If you can force pinning or morale and point to a rhino to take the leadership test for it, the owner is going to say, "Irrelevant, I'm a vehicle." Now we have a unique entity that is both a vehicle AND a psyker. It seems to be that the most common sense way to play this would be to have the vehicles use LD10 as their test - which is their psychic leadership profile.

1. you could have the squad test, but then the whole squad would be removed if it fails. The rules for how GK take psykic tests are irrelevant because the crucible has its own rules that dont include a psykic test. The GK rulebook has special rules for how perils of the warp is enforced, but the crucible is not a perils of the warp attack.

2. That is how I would play it too. Ld10 or be removed. The rules are definitely not adequate at the moment.

There is nothing new with vehicles and psykers. You are looking for an exploitation.

@exergy

You should probably read the codex or even the test dex before commenting on things like this. Vehicles have a Ld10 in regards to psychic tests. Now I don't know how it would fall. They could either make them test at Ld10 or make them immune. But auto-removal isn't even in the realm of possibilities with the current wording.

And the Brotherhood of Psyker special rule clearly explains how they function as a psyker which affects how the item affects them.

Hulksmash wrote:@exergy

You should probably read the codex or even the test dex before commenting on things like this. Vehicles have a Ld10 in regards to psychic tests. Now I don't know how it would fall. They could either make them test at Ld10 or make them immune. But auto-removal isn't even in the realm of possibilities with the current wording.

the rule says they have Ld10 for psykic tests. The crucible requires a leadership test, not a psykic test.

as i said, if I come up against a GK army I will push for being able to use the Ld10 for the required Ld test, but that is well beyond the rules in the GK dex.

Hulksmash wrote:And the Brotherhood of Psyker special rule clearly explains how they function as a psyker which affects how the item affects them.

I haven't seen the new codex yet, but I have of course seen the leaked one, and I remember it saying in there that every Grey Knight is a Psyker, they are just not strong enough to all use powers, so they channel them through the Justicar.

If this is what it still says, then they are all psykers, and they each take individual tests, unless they have some rule negating it, which they could cause I haven't seen the official codex yet.

How they function as a psyker, and if they are all psykers or not are two different things though. I can make a weed-whacker function as a lawnmower, but it is still a weed-whacker, albeit cutting an entire yard.

Exergy wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:
Keep in mind that the Crucible only zaps individual GK models (albeit squad leaders), not entire squads. It also appears to have no effect on vehicles, but this may change with an FAQ.

it zapps individual models, but all models in range must test as each is a psyker. The crucible does not force a psykic test, it forces leadership tests to every model. This works the same way against Seer councils. Thus a squad of 10 PAGK in range will have to make 10 LD tests, 9 for the squad members and 1 for the leader(on his higher leadership). Overall it is likely that perhaps 3 will fail.

Re(?)read Codex: Grey Knights. Units with Brotherhood of Psykers count as a single psyker and attacks that target psykers only affect the squad leader, or a random model for squads without leaders.

Exergy wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fetterkey wrote:It also appears to have no effect on vehicles, but this may change with an FAQ..

as of right now it needs to be FAQed because vehicles autodie.
they are psykers.
thus they must pass a Ld test or be removed.
they cannot pass a Ld test.
they are removed.

Very likely to be changed in an FAQ as this is by far the best way to kill a land raider.

Grey Knight vehicles have the "Psychic Pilot" rule, but are not psykers for the purpose of the Crucible and are thereby not affected by it. Even if they were, they would get to test on Leadership 10.

It is a good enough reason to start fielding a Haemonculus as far as I'm concerned. The official FAQ is at least three to four months out.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:It is a good enough reason to start fielding a Haemonculus as far as I'm concerned. The official FAQ is at least three to four months out.

There doesn't need to be an FAQ. If you read the Grey Knight special rules carefully, the Crucible is pretty weak. It has no effect on vehicles and only picks single models out of squads. While losing your Justicar if you fail a leadership check on Ld9 is certainly annoying, it's nowhere near as good as it could have been, all things considered.

As much as I would like to see the end of this, can you guys move it to YMDC and keep this thread to just tactics discussion? I'm still in need of DE listbuilding advice and I dont want it to be derailed because someone is looking for an easy exploit on GKs.

And I'm still waiting on a good way to include Vect or The Duke in my list, since I am fixated on them atm.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:And I'm still waiting on a good way to include Vect or The Duke in my list, since I am fixated on them atm.

Vect is good for 2k and above. Stick him with some wyches or bloodbrides for a great melee unit, or stick him with some trueborn for some powerful shooting and some decent CC backup. With the trueborn, Vect will be doing most of the killing, but at least then you have something to take that PF besides Vect.

Sliscus is great no matter how many points you are running, but I wouldn't suggest him below 1000, just cause there are cheaper HQs for that low points range. Stick him with a 9 man Trueborn squad in a Raider, w/2 Cannons and 7 Carbines, and you have a very nasty anti-infantry shooting unit. You can also detach him after that to go with wyches, as he is pretty decent in CC, or leave him with the Trueborn in case they get charged, so they have something to actually hurt an assaulty unit with.