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Since EVERY other Grey Knight thread has been filled with the same 6 recycled pictures of exo suits and baby carriers, I decided to make a different kind of thread. So I preface this by imploring Dakka; If you want to re-post the same nonsense pictures about Grey Knights, please go to another thread. If you want to discuss fluff non-sense, please go to another thread. If you want to discuss model aesthetics or GW marketing, please go to another thread.

The point of this thread is to discuss some actual Grey Knight codex combinations, tactics, and their potential impact on the game.

I have had the leaked dex for a while now and have even had a friend test a small GK force (wargear and weapons were based off rumors). When I initially saw the options, it looked like this codex would be the next in the line of OP marines. Upon further inspection, I don't know that this codex will be able to overcome the small elite force syndrome. The stuff is great, and my Daemons aren't incredibly happy to face them. Still, almost every army will be outnumbering GK by a good margin. After looking over the codex today in stores, here are some of my impressions:

Wargear: First off, I have seen nowhere that Nemesis Force Weapons can take a psychic test and ignore eternal warrior on Daemons or EW in general. What they can do is forces a multi wound Daemon or psycher that takes a wound to leadership test or die. So, they can ignore Daemons EW, but not in the way some have been stating. There's a big difference between wounding a Bloodthirster once, taking a LD test and removing him and wounding a Bloodthirster once, your OPPONENT taking a LD test and the model being removed on a failure. Overall, not a huge deal.

On the subject of NFW, the Warding Staves aren't a big deal either. They are incredibly expensive and are CC only. Also, the regular NFW gives a +1 to an inv save so most characters like the Grand Master won't even need to waste the whopping 35 points. They already have a 3++.

Rad grenades seem dirty, but luckily they are only available on a few models. Finally, I have a clarification on Servo Skulls. They DO NOT cause mishaps for an opponent within a 12" bubble. They are basically to help with scatter and deep strike for GK. I saw nothing game breaking there.

HQ: There are some nice options here. The problem is, they are very expensive and in Terminator armor. This means deep strike, Land Raider, Stormraven, or walk. Most won't choose to walk. Land Raiders are pricey and easily countered by most new armies. Storm Ravens are pricey and are countered by most strength 8 or higher. Deep striking is risky. So all in all, a pretty huge built in downside. Plus, you want a Grand Master with 5 basic Termies in a Storm Raven? That will clock just below 600 points base. Giant "shoot me sign" included.

Still, the Libby and GM are pretty awesome. The special characters have some downsides too. Draigo is incredibly pricey. Mordrak is so-so. Crowe provides some excellent benefits, but he is a free kill point who has to slog it solo. The Brotherhood Champ is the only one in artificer armor, but he is only one wound. Overall, the HQ section is powerful, but has some major downsides in the cost department.

Elites: The Elites section will be very interesting. Obviously the winner here is the Purifiers. A great psychic power, cheaper weapons, and bonus attacks and leadership make them an obvious choice for competitive lists.

The Venerable Dreadnaught might be a solid choice as well. Psybolt ammo and autocannons have already been kicked around as a potential popular choice for competitive lists.
The Paladins are a unit that was talked about as a potential for game breaking cheese. The problem again is the cost. Five with an apothecary is 350 points. Two psycannons and this unit is 390. They suffer from the “termie delivery syndrome or TDS” of how to make it to combat. Cheap is not what these guys bring to the table.

The Vindicare assassin has been talked about lots. I feel that they will be a popular choice. Still, three missiles are all it takes to remove the easy kill point.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Troops: The standard Grey Knight Strike Squad looks pretty good. Power weapons, some new goodies, and a cost reduction have more than made up for the loss of WS 5 and St6. Make no mistake, the squads are not cheap. Ten basic GK will is 200 points. Add in two Psycannons, a Rhino, and Psybolt ammo and that unit is 280. That’s before the addition of any Halbreds, Daemon hammers, or the dreaded Warding Staves. Add in Halbreds for the unit and they are 330. No long range, no melta. Die as easy as marines as well.

My sad early prediction: 6 strong units in a Razorback for around 200 points. Yes, I think competitive lists will be forced to Razorspam…yawn.

Terminators are a nice value as troops. They suffer from “TDS” though. Two units of Five basic Termies in a Storm Raven is an 800 point start to an army. Add in an HQ and that’s 1000 points…anyone still scared?

Fast Attack: Teleporting GK might be decent in conjunction with scoring provided by a Grand Master. Storm Ravens are pricey and fragile. That’s about it.

Heavy Support: The Dreadnaught has been covered above. I maintain that the Psybolt Rifleman will be a staple soon. The only two other interesting options here are Purgation Squads and Dread Knights.

Purgation Squads seem decent; however don’t expect gunlines with the lack of range of the Psycannon. They might be fun, but I don’t know that they will be overly amazing.

The Dread Knight (omg did you hear it looks like a baby carrier har har har) isn’t quite as fearsome as the leaked pdf suggested. They are still nice units, but there’s a big difference between T7 and 4++ and T6 and 5++. I am also not incredibly impressed with their shooting weapons. Overall, I think teleporting three CC oriented DK’s would force and army to act for a few turns until the GK cavalry arrives. That would be about 600 points though.

Overall impressions:

I’m not incredibly worried about the codex, even as Daemons. Sure, there is a lot there that specifically targets daemons. The thing is, most players won’t be gearing toward them as they are so rare. This leaves GK in my mind as a solid, albeit unspectacular codex.
Competitive lists are going to be interesting. As many have stated, Inquisition spam looks likely. In terms of a pure all GK competitive list:

HQ: Grand Master, rad grenades, master crafted weapon-195

Elites: Purifiers (10) 4 psycannons, 10 halberds, Razorback with Las/Plasma-370
(Combat squaded, of course)

Troops: GK Termies (5), psycannon, various wound shennanagans-225

Troops: GK Strike Squad (6) in Razorback with Las/Plasma- 200

Troops: GK Strike Squad (6) in Razorback with Las/Plasma- 200

Heavy Support: Rifleman with psybolt ammo-135

Heavy Support: Rifleman with psybolt ammo-135

Heavy Support: Rifleman with psybolt ammo-135

Fast Attack: Storm Raven with melta, assault cannon-205

Total: 1800

Now, my points may not be 100%, but that list is my initial take on what competitive pure GK will look like. I really don’t see much that’s incredibly scary, different, or even that interesting there. Call me a pessimist, but I think this dex would have been better if no Razors and maybe even Rhinos were in it. My early analysis: Elite Marines with some new toys that will still be behind BA and SW.

Anyone else have some early thoughts?

A no-nonsense Grey Knights thread can get very short
Especially when a tactics thread is posted outside the Tactics subforum.

I like your list JGrand.

The Grand Master is definitely the HQ of choice for me with all the best options available including Grand Strategy and a far smaller cost than Draigo.

I probably wouldn't go for the stormraven but take a landraider instead.

Purifiers do look very good but once I've got all the models I really need Im not sure about even taking anything in the elite slot except for the vindicare who does have the 4d6 armour pen the leaked codex suggested.

Also, I really don't like tanks and much prefer to have more troops on the field so will try as best I can to put the points into interceptor squads - if I can get as many of those as possible into my opponents face quick and harrass them for a couple of turns, then I can get most units where I want them without the need for as many tanks (I hope).

All in all though, your list does look very solid with just about all bases covered.

A no-nonsense Grey Knights thread can get very short
Especially when a tactics thread is posted outside the Tactics subforum.

I was a bit conflicted on which forum to use. It's more of a codex discussion/review and how they will affect the game as a whole than a full on "how to."

To be honest, I just want to actually discuss a new codex instead of regurgitating jokes that got old after the first gif. I expected more from this forum than what I've seen on GK so far.

I like your list JGrand.

The Grand Master is definitely the HQ of choice for me with all the best options available including Grand Strategy and a far smaller cost than Draigo.

I probably wouldn't go for the stormraven but take a landraider instead.

Purifiers do look very good but once I've got all the models I really need Im not sure about even taking anything in the elite slot except for the vindicare who does have the 4d6 armour pen the leaked codex suggested.

Also, I really don't like tanks and much prefer to have more troops on the field so will try as best I can to put the points into interceptor squads - if I can get as many of those as possible into my opponents face quick and harrass them for a couple of turns, then I can get most units where I want them without the need for as many tanks (I hope).

It's obviously a first go, but I wanted to look at a way to optimize from a pure competitive standpoint. I think the GM will be the go to choice. The Librarian is pretty nice too though. The Land Raider is more survivable than the Storm Raven, but neither are all that amazing for their cost. I think both have some major weaknesses for their cost but might be necessary in this dex.

I also don't blame you for wanting to go less tank oriented. I kind of think it's lame that GK get Rhinos/Razors now. I would have liked more DS and teleporting to really separate the army from the rest of the MEQs.

Thanks for the responses guys

Any confirmation on whether you can build an inquisition army out of the book, or are G/Ks more or less required?

Coteaz makes Henchmen troops so it should be possible to make a Pure-Inquisition army.

Any confirmation on whether you can build an inquisition army out of the book, or are G/Ks more or less required?

I actually focused mainly on the GK parts and specifically the wargear section. That being said, I did not see anything that made GK 1+ or anything. However I did not read Cortez's rules. Sorry bout that.

NP. I'm anxious to find out whether my next project is going to be a radical inquisition army! Even if it's possible I'm sure it will probably look much better than it plays.

Since I have 4 land raiders and a stormraven, I'm looking forward to seeing if I can break 3000pts with the new GK terminator costs + dreadknights.

No but really, I hope that there is a diverse range of tactics that the codex is capable of. I've been using the LR rush for some time now with GK/BA+Allied GK.

First list to put together will likely be some kind of variant on a SR, GK LRR, and a dreadknight. Libby or stock GKGM as HQ, maybe some paladins, some fancy interceptors too.

What are the kind of options for Inquisitors?

I like your list, but a basic Grand Master? Why?

If a unit wants to use Hammerhand and gets a perils of the warp, does it affect the whole squad or just the unit it is resolved against?

The justicar or carrier of flame(?), will suffer the wound first. If he's gone, then a squad member suffers it.

cool, that's what I was hoping

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:Any confirmation on whether you can build an inquisition army out of the book, or are G/Ks more or less required?

AFAIK, the situation is that Henchmen do not take up a FoC slot. Cortaez allows henchmen as troops. Therefore, you can have an inquisitorial army, with any number of henchmen, however you'd have to have the minimum number of Grey Knights there (read: 2 troops choices/ 200pts).

Just Dave wrote:

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:Any confirmation on whether you can build an inquisition army out of the book, or are G/Ks more or less required?

AFAIK, the situation is that Henchmen do not take up a FoC slot. Cortaez allows henchmen as troops. Therefore, you can have an inquisitorial army, with any number of henchmen, however you'd have to have the minimum number of Grey Knights there (read: 2 troops choices/ 200pts).

Once again, don't start this. At least 2 threads have been locked due to arguments started by this rule.

Just Dave wrote:

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:Any confirmation on whether you can build an inquisition army out of the book, or are G/Ks more or less required?

AFAIK, the situation is that Henchmen do not take up a FoC slot. Cortaez allows henchmen as troops. Therefore, you can have an inquisitorial army, with any number of henchmen, however you'd have to have the minimum number of Grey Knights there (read: 2 troops choices/ 200pts).

Yeah, that rule gets some people very upset about the whole "infinite henchmen" thing. For the record in addition you may in fact fulfill your basic requirements with those same henchmen, no GK required.

Does anyone have full details on the Orbital Strike Relay? I saw someone post the effects (3 different kinds if I remember correctly) but I wasn't sure if its a single use item, multiple use item, only triggers at the beginning of the game, etc. Only 3 units and a special character can have one (Karamazov, Techmarine, Grand Master, Brother-Captain) from what I saw in the leaked dex. At 50 points each, it would be a shame if they were only a single use. But if they aren't, and are simply fired like a heavy weapon, do you feel that it could supplement GK long range anti-tank?

Orbital strike relay can be used as long as you remain stationary and is not one use. It has 3 profiles which I do not remember but which are posted around the various threads. One of them I believe is a lance strike which is a small blast with high strength low AP.

You *could* try to take a techmarine with the relay, and use it as anti tank... pretty unreliable for the cost, though. Servo skulls could possibly help if their range is enough, but if the enemy gets too close the servo skulls get destroyed so you would probably only get off 1 shot.

I was thinking the same thing, that the big hammer unit of a bunch of paladins will not win, one tactic I am going to use, is pyscannon spam take those dev like units and give 4 pyscannons get a bunch 7 man squads with pyscannons and spam them.!!!

As of right now I'm looking at making a "swarmy" Grey Knight list:

Librarian: Daemon Hammer - 155

Strike Squad x10: 2 Psycannons, Teleporters - 280
Strike Squad x10: 2 Psycannons, Teleporters - 280
Strike Squad x10: 2 Psycannons, Teleporters - 280
Strike Squad x10: 2 Psycannons, Teleporters - 280
Strike Squad x10: 2 Psycannons, Teleporters - 280
Strike Squad x10: 2 Psycannons, Teleporters - 280

Spammy and boring, but just a general idea. This clocks in @ 1835, and since I play 2000 pts most of the time I've got 165 points for another HQ choice.

But 60 scoring jump pack marines with 48 Str 7 Rending shots ain't no joke. Add in 21 Str 5 power weapon attacks on the charge (assuming I get Hammerhand off) and you've got a super hard counter to anything with "Blood" in the name

The anti-horde firepower is impressive, with 96 Str 4 Ap 5 shots, and all this firepower whilst still moving twelve inches and the ability to basically redeploy any squad once per game, this is pretty friggin nasty.

Too bad teleporter squads are FA

ph34r wrote:Too bad teleporter squads are FA

Where are you getting this from? I see nothing that indicates as such.

The description in the Strike Squads says nothing about changing their FoC slot, and the option for teleporters is in the Strike Squad's wargear, who are troops.

I am really bummed out about not being able to take Land Raiders as dedicated transports on ANYBODY!

I see people constantly afraid of how "expensive" Grey Knights are, but a lot of that is just people taking superflous upgrades. Your basic Grey Knight squad with 2 Psycannons @ 240 points is quite reasonable.

You're reading the playtest codex, aren't you.

EDIT: (in the final version interceptor squads are fast, and have the teleporter option)

ph34r wrote:You're reading the playtest codex, aren't you.

EDIT: (in the final version interceptor squads are fast, and have the teleporter option)

Hopes and dreams crushed T.T

Looks like I'm going to have to buy rhinos afterall. Boohoo!

I know how you feel. I was bummed too. The really good troops option seems like purifiers, but then you have to take the worst character in the game (Crowe!)

ph34r wrote:I know how you feel. I was bummed too. The really good troops option seems like purifiers, but then you have to take the worst character in the game (Crowe!)

Yeah, I saw people taking the purifiers. I looked at Crowe and wow.....he's just incredibly bad.

Brotherhood champions worry me slightly as far as C'tan go. With Lords I just WBB out of it

Kurgash wrote:Brotherhood champions worry me slightly as far as C'tan go. With Lords I just WBB out of it

Yeah, but everything in the book can take out C'tan. Champions just make it overkill.

ph34r wrote:

Kurgash wrote:Brotherhood champions worry me slightly as far as C'tan go. With Lords I just WBB out of it

Yeah, but everything in the book can take out C'tan. Champions just make it overkill.

:*( I know...it was the one thing I was able to laugh about when it comes to facing the inevitable GK bandwagon making camp at my FLGS.