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MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Is it possible to outflank with Termies who are given Scouts or does the GM's Grand Strategy rule not kick in until they're deployed?

Before deployment, so it should work.

Can you get an interceptor squad, get as many halberds as humanely possible, deploy as far forward as possible, give them scouting with Grand Strategy, use the scout move to move up to 30" and stop 12,00000infinity1 inches away from an enemy, jump 12" during your turn and proceed to wreck face, or is the 30" move barred from use when scouting?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Can you get an interceptor squad, get as many halberds as humanely possible, deploy as far forward as possible, give them scouting with Grand Strategy, use the scout move to move up to 30" and stop 12,00000infinity1 inches away from an enemy, jump 12" during your turn and proceed to wreck face, or is the 30" move barred from use when scouting?

Looks legal to me.

Nope. According to BoK, you cannot 'shunt' during the scout move. Apparently. I dont have the 'dex myself...

Just Dave wrote:Nope. According to BoK, you cannot 'shunt' during the scout move. Apparently. I dont have the 'dex myself...

That much worse for BoK credibility then.

I would still like to know where this codex is?

Just Dave wrote:Nope. According to BoK, you cannot 'shunt' during the scout move. Apparently. I dont have the 'dex myself...

What the hell is BoK and why should we care? By the wording in the codex, you can. Will it probably be FAQed away, yes. But I don't see why you can't do it the way it is written now.

The wording is a little weird, but *most* of the entry on shunting calls shunting a move. The only thing that may be a problem is the first line where it says something like once per game blah blah blah can shunt instead of moving. But everywhere else it acts like shunting is a move and calls it a move. So that sentence can only be taken to mean shunt instead of moving normally. And since you can turboboost and go flat out during the scouting phase, I don't see why this special jump move would be any different rules-wise.

And they've fixed the wording on the henchmen/inquisitor/Coteaz debachle. Instead of saying "Henchmen do not take up a FOS", it now only says "Each inquisitor can take a unit. THIS UNIT does not take up a FOS", or words to that effect. Meaning any other unit, like those granted by Coteaz, do count in the FOC.

Ah, feels good to have been right the whole time

Cerebrium wrote:And they've fixed the wording on the henchmen/inquisitor/Coteaz debachle. Instead of saying "Henchmen do not take up a FOS", it now only says "Each inquisitor can take a unit. THIS UNIT does not take up a FOS", or words to that effect. Meaning any other unit, like those granted by Coteaz, do count in the FOC.

Ah, feels good to have been right the whole time

The wording is exactly the same.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:And they've fixed the wording on the henchmen/inquisitor/Coteaz debachle. Instead of saying "Henchmen do not take up a FOS", it now only says "Each inquisitor can take a unit. THIS UNIT does not take up a FOS", or words to that effect. Meaning any other unit, like those granted by Coteaz, do count in the FOC.

Ah, feels good to have been right the whole time

The wording is exactly the same.

Really? I must have misremembered it.

Then again, I always pleaded it was obvious that they do take up a slot...

Cerebrium wrote:And they've fixed the wording on the henchmen/inquisitor/Coteaz debachle. Instead of saying "Henchmen do not take up a FOS", it now only says "Each inquisitor can take a unit. THIS UNIT does not take up a FOS", or words to that effect. Meaning any other unit, like those granted by Coteaz, do count in the FOC.

Ah, feels good to have been right the whole time

Yeah, except for the part where they explicitly did not change the rule at all.

Ah, feels good to have been right the whole time

"Inquisitorial Henchmen warbands are troops choices in an army that includes..."

What annoys me is that that won't even get FAQ'd, unless someone turns up to a big tournament and tries it. I don't even see where the vagueness lies. It explicitly says they're troops.

ph34r wrote:Ah, feels good to have been right the whole time

Um... a vague rule being unchanged doesn't mean your interpretation is right. It just means the rules remains vague.


PS: Everyone who's been PMing me, terribly sorry but I'm not linking to illegal files. You should go ask on one of those image board forums.

lord_blackfang wrote:

ph34r wrote:Ah, feels good to have been right the whole time

Um... a vague rule being unchanged doesn't mean your interpretation is right. It just means the rules remains vague.


PS: Everyone who's been PMing me, terribly sorry but I'm not linking to illegal files. You should go ask on one of those image board forums.

Got it

lord_blackfang wrote:

ph34r wrote:Ah, feels good to have been right the whole time

Um... a vague rule being unchanged doesn't mean your interpretation is right. It just means the rules remains vague.


PS: Everyone who's been PMing me, terribly sorry but I'm not linking to illegal files. You should go ask on one of those image board forums.

Image board forum?

Cerebrium wrote:"Inquisitorial Henchmen warbands are troops choices in an army that includes..."

What annoys me is that that won't even get FAQ'd, unless someone turns up to a big tournament and tries it. I don't even see where the vagueness lies. It explicitly says they're troops.

Right. It explicitly says they're troops. That is all it says. It doesn't say that they lose the rule that makes them not take up FOC slots.

To predict your argument, "but troops are troops and troops take slots!" Well guess what, elites are elites and elites take slots, but that doesn't mean that their special rule stops working.

I'm just glad that, after something like 12 years of waiting, the GKs seem to have a decent chance of standing up against NON-Daemon lists. Overpriced, maybe, but the new 'dex seems to allow you to pay the extra points only when needed, rather than as a compulsory choice.

I want to make a Custode army with the Upcoming Grey Knight codex will it work?

Asherian Command wrote:I want to make a Custode army with the Upcoming Grey Knight codex will it work?

If you were ever going to do "counts-as" Custodes, this would be the codex IMO.

Lets not talk about illegal copies of dexes or whether or not you can take more then 6 henchmen squads. For now i think it's best to just go with the safer option (that they are limited to 6), and wait for FAQs to determine things once and for all.

As for the codex, i like it so far. While i think that inquisitional units will be very useful, i think there are some good pure GK possibilities. Some of the ones I'm interested in are:

Shunt army: Mordrak+ghost termies, 3 tele Dreadknights, 2x10 interceptors, 5 interceptors, 2x10 strike squads. On turn 1 your whole army moves 30 inches towards the enemy, survives a round of shooting, and then assaults you. Be interesting to see how many armies can handle that sort of thing. Strikes drop in later to hold objectives + help out. Grand master could be taken instead of Mordrak to take more units hold objectives.

Crowe Psycannon spam: Crowe + 6 rhinos of purifiers with psycannons. 24-48 psycannon shots from the cover of rhinos sounds good to me. Plus if the rhinos die they are not too shabby in CC either. Supplemented with more dedicated CC units to back them up, i see this being an interesting list.

JGrand wrote:Elites: Purifiers (10) 4 psycannons, 10 halberds, Razorback with Las/Plasma-370
(Combat squaded, of course)

I didn't know GK's could do combat squads. I only looked at the codex briefly so I don't know for sure.

Breotan wrote:

JGrand wrote:Elites: Purifiers (10) 4 psycannons, 10 halberds, Razorback with Las/Plasma-370
(Combat squaded, of course)

I didn't know GK's could do combat squads. I only looked at the codex briefly so I don't know for sure.

They can combat squad just like regular marines.

Yep, I specifically checked it with the physically copy today. They can be combat squadded.

jcd386 wrote:Lets not talk about illegal copies of dexes or whether or not you can take more then 6 henchmen squads. For now i think it's best to just go with the safer option (that they are limited to 6), and wait for FAQs to determine things once and for all.

As for the codex, i like it so far. While i think that inquisitional units will be very useful, i think there are some good pure GK possibilities. Some of the ones I'm interested in are:

Shunt army: Mordrak+ghost termies, 3 tele Dreadknights, 2x10 interceptors, 5 interceptors, 2x10 strike squads. On turn 1 your whole army moves 30 inches towards the enemy, survives a round of shooting, and then assaults you. Be interesting to see how many armies can handle that sort of thing. Strikes drop in later to hold objectives + help out. Grand master could be taken instead of Mordrak to take more units hold objectives.

Crowe Psycannon spam: Crowe + 6 rhinos of purifiers with psycannons. 24-48 psycannon shots from the cover of rhinos sounds good to me. Plus if the rhinos die they are not too shabby in CC either. Supplemented with more dedicated CC units to back them up, i see this being an interesting list.

I'm just excited to be able to build an SM army without any transports!

Librarians with their teleporting powers, Interceptor Squads, an entire army that deep strikes, Dreadknights with teleporters, it'll be nice to have an army with mobility than doesn't require spamming the same transport 8 times.

jcd386 wrote:Shunt army: Mordrak+ghost termies, 3 tele Dreadknights, 2x10 interceptors, 5 interceptors, 2x10 strike squads. On turn 1 your whole army moves 30 inches towards the enemy, survives a round of shooting, and then assaults you. Be interesting to see how many armies can handle that sort of thing. Strikes drop in later to hold objectives + help out. Grand master could be taken instead of Mordrak to take more units hold objectives.

Heh, I've been talking about that with people from 3++ for quite awhile. You could be crazy and throw in a Stormraven too, but that ups the points quite a bit. Remember, the rules as written now allowing teleporting during the Scout move, so it is even crazier than you wrote. The dreadknights, with scout, can assault stuff first turn....

God, Riflemen Dreadnoughts w/ strength 8 Autocannons... for 135 points, and they shrug off Shaken/Stunned results. Do want. Do want, very badly. I have some converting to do there.

As a side note, they took away Mind Blades in the end. Rad Grenades are the only way to cause -1 toughness, and that's only on a create-your-own Ordo Xenos Inquisitor.

Death Cult Assassins did end up getting 2 attacks base + 2 CCWs, for 3 attacks all the time. That's cool.

No limit on number of Temple assassins, so you CAN SPAM 3 VINDICARES. Shame that the Callidus got nerfed. Eversor doesn't even have Infiltrate, ftw? It's like Ward was determined that no assassin other than the sniper would be taken...

Oh well. I'm definitely taking 3 Vindicares now.

HQ slots can be competitive or fun, and allow a great amount of customization. Crowe sucks balls in the end, but Mordrak looks incredible. His Terminators are the same price as normal Terminators, not 32 as was originally rumored.

In the end, only Special Characters I'll ever consider using are Mordrak and Conteaz seriously, and Valeria for fun. She looks like a fluffy, fun choice that doesn't flat out hurt.

The create-your-own Grand Masters, Librarians, and Inquisitors are awesome. You can really suit them to your list, and the Inquisitors start at 25 points with some sweet options.

Radical Inquisitors are supported with a Daemon Weapon, although it's a tightly bound Daemon, so it's powers are limited. Pairing with the Radical option, Daemonhosts did get crazy nerfed, but are a fourth of their price from the old dex. That's significant, but shows Ward's idiocy when it comes to fluff (sorry, I had to!).

Servo Skulls are a nice little item. Infiltrators will hate them, as will Vendettas/Deffkoptas.

Falchions are not Lightning Claws, but merely give +1 attack. Nemesis Daemon Hammers are not +1 strength, they are true Thunder Hammers. Nemesis Force Sword +1 to invul is close combat only, and ONLY works for models with an existing invul save.

And lastly, Thawn's wording remains the same. His unit type is infantry (character), which means he casts his psychic powers separately from his unit. And it does appear that Hammerhand stacks. So my Terminators with Thawn will be rockin' S6 without a Librarian. And he's not an independent character, so he doesn't use his force weapon separately. Mastery Level 2 only matters if he's off by himself.

I've seen the final version in PDF form and it's been toned down a lot. DK's are now T6, Max 3 special weapons for henchmen. Any questions?

Are you sure? I don't remember that at all from reading the in-store copy during the last few days. I know the servitors can only take 3, but i thought the warrior acolytes were still unlimited.

Nope, warrior acolytes are only 3. But you can still take 72 Death Cult Assassins or Crusaders, so that's OK.

You can take infinite warrior acolytes up to the squad limit, but only three of them per squad can have equipment beyond armor and a bolter/storm bolter/hotshot lasgun.