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I have been playing 1000-1500 pt games with my friend a lot recently. He plays Dark Eldar and really loves running squads of either 9 incubi + Archon or 5 incubi + Archon. He always runs the archon with 2+ invuln and a husk blade. A raider to transport is always used as well. I have noticed thtroughout our many games that I can deal with the rest of his army with no problems at all, yet unless I get my furioso in to melee on his incubi I cant find a way to take them down cost effectively. At only 22 points each for power weapon/armor wielding, high WS, High initiative models I'm not sure what I can do to come out ahead in a fight against them. So far I have a few ideas:

Stormraven to transport a dreadnought, which can then assault the incubi

Librarian with smite (str 4 AP 2 Assault 4) could kill a few in shooting phase

Sternguard vets with vengeance rounds to kill them in the shooting phase

Have you guys tried any of these methods, or perhaps your own method? Any comments would be appreciated!

shoot them, they may have a 3+ save but they are T3. It doesnt sound like he is using a haemi so they dont start with FNP.

You dont need vengeance rounds or smite you need more bolters. wreck their transport then dakka them to death. Once they get FNP though they are a lot harder to kill with shooting.

You can also try to break them by getting them in combat with only one model in a multi charge against something else you plan to wipe the floor with. IE you charge something, get 1 incubi in combat. taht incubui kills 1 model. you rack up 6-7 wounds on the other squad and then hope the incubi break and run.

Exergy wrote:shot them, they may have a 3+ save but they are T3. It doesnt sound like he is using a haemi so they dont start with FNP.

You dont need vengeance rounds or smite you need more bolters. wreck their transport then dakka them to death. Once they get FNP though they are a lot harder to kill with shooting.

You can also try to break them by getting them in combat with only one model in a multi charge against something else you plan to wipe the floor with. IE you charge something, get 1 incubi in combat. taht incubui kills 1 model. you rack up 6-7 wounds on the other squad and then hope the incubi break and run.

The rest of the squad piles in. Your squad is butchered. You run.

Shoot down the Raider ASAP, after that, keep all your models 19" away from them, the last thing you should do to this unit is to try and use the one-sided multi-assault. Because of DE's [Mod Edit - Please don't use that word in that manner here on Dakka Dakka - thanks!] OP Initiative values, trying any kind of assault trick is suicidal against Incubi, they will strike first and most likely get enough wounds to make your models flee. Best option is to take an Honour Guard unit with Plasma guns and have them blast away at them while your other units give them a wide berth.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
The rest of the squad piles in. Your squad is butchered. You run.

Well yes, you need to do some careful manipulation to get it to work and pray they break the first round.

The only other suggestion I can make would be assault terminators.

Really though shooting them is the best option and that is what i reccomened first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyclonus wrote:Shoot down the Raider ASAP, after that, keep all your models 19" away from them, the last thing you should do to this unit is to try and use the one-sided multi-assault. Because of DE's retardedly OP Initiative values, trying any kind of assault trick is suicidal against Incubi, they will strike first and most likely get enough wounds to make your models flee. Best option is to take an Honour Guard unit with Plasma guns and have them blast away at them while your other units give them a wide berth.

I dont see how 5 is overpowered? Is anything higher than marines OP? Clearly every Xeno should look like Orks then.

I dont get why you want to take an honor guard. Bolters and a few odd special weapons will do fine. a 3+ save is just a 3+ save. If they get FNP because you sacrifise a squad to them then first then AP2 might be nice but really you should have enough anti horde to just pour into their T3 and wipe them regardless of save. Even flamers work on these guys.

You just have to down their transport and dakka them.

Storm Raven with Blendor-Dred. Pop the Raider, and then mow them down. Sounds easy but don't let them assault you. Stay away and pour fire into them.

Shoot the raider, with out it, the Incubi will never make it too your lines alive (even though you need to shoot it while the raider is still relatively far away ).
Power weapons are quite effective on incubi, but thats only if you have a higher inative.
If all else fails, shoot them like crazy, and do not stop.

but it also who help to find out what else your friend runs .

Shoot de choppy 'unz, chop de shooty 'unz.

Works for more than just Orks.

He normally runs:

1 Archon with shadow field, husk blade, soul trap

9 incubi with Claivex. These are in same raider as Archon

2 full squads of witches with 2 razorflail 1 agonizer

6 reavers with 2x cluster bombs

Edit: Forgot to note that everything he uses is placed in a raider if it is able. He usually goes half/half on dark lances and disintegraters

Other than that, he fills in points with all kinds of stuff. He likes running Lellith (sp?), another squad of witches, or homunculus on occassion.

I played him again today and managed to kill 5-6 Incubi per shooting phase, but it was the "Dawn Raid" battle mission and the night rules messed with my shooting a bit. He also ran 2 squads of incubi today, since it was 1500 points.

Thanks for all your advice

Moderas wrote:
1 Archon with shadow field, husk blade, soul trap
9 incubi with Claivex. These are in same raider as Archon

Just note that is a 250pt squad in a 70some point transport with a 150pt character. At 1500 points that is almost a third of his army that has virtually no shooting.
It will rip anything meq especilly if it gets the charge but a lot of 500 pts squads will do that. Keep it from getting a multi assault, if you do get charged you want to limit how much you lose to a single squad massacre. He will get his FNP but be vunerable next turn to shooting. You then can blast away with bolters and flamers(yeah 3+ and fnp are gonna hurt) and any meltas/plasmas you might have. Its just 12 wounds.

You can mech up in razorbacks or rhinos and make him pay for swapping out DLs for disintagrators.
Otherwise thats 500pts of army in a AV 10 open topped transport. Shoot it down and then

Careful with your sang priests. They are pretty easy for an archon to power up with soul trap with. Str6 and he can hurt a dread but likely cant kill it quickly, but 2 power ups and he is Str 10 and you pretty much HAVE to shoot him.

Tank shock maybe? Being BA you have plenty of those, and Incubi can't make it through a Rhino's front armor. True, they are high leadership, but hitting them a few times should work. Am I missing something?

Guaiwu wrote:Tank shock maybe? Being BA you have plenty of those, and Incubi can't make it through a Rhino's front armor. True, they are high leadership, but hitting them a few times should work. Am I missing something?

close combat attacks go against the rear armor, even on tank shocks. Still its not likely to stop them. I dont think I would death or glory a 22 point model. Wyches with haywire grenades, maybe...
It doesnt sound like the Moderas as very much mech or he wouldnt be getting charged by incubi in the first place.


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Moderas wrote:
1 Archon with shadow field, husk blade, soul trap

Incubi do not have any grenades, so you can strike before them if you are in cover.

of course an archon does have grenades, so he will go first and he can take a phantasmal grenade launcher, which would give the incubi grenades. check in case he has it, you might be able to spring a trap for him.

How bout redeemer...not much can stand the love of AC + FC ...yeah and dont use smite on libby there are better...

Anyways would help if you would post your BA list as i think trouble comes from that direction...

send a dread into em; they go down quick

The ideal would be a block of sternguard with vengeance ammo. Secondary would be using things with the word "Melta" "Krak missile" or "Lascannon" on them. Other than that, a dreadnought. Just hope he doesn't have any haywire grenades nearby.

Exergy wrote:

Guaiwu wrote:Tank shock maybe? Being BA you have plenty of those, and Incubi can't make it through a Rhino's front armor. True, they are high leadership, but hitting them a few times should work. Am I missing something?

close combat attacks go against the rear armor, even on tank shocks.

Death or Glory is resolved against front armor, BRB page 69, last sentence of the first paragraph.

SOFDC wrote:The ideal would be a block of sternguard with vengeance ammo. Secondary would be using things with the word "Melta" "Krak missile" or "Lascannon" on them. Other than that, a dreadnought. Just hope he doesn't have any haywire grenades nearby.

Blood talons = dead incubi lolz

My list changes a lot, but I will list what I usually use:

HQ- Librarian with unleash rage + shield, jump packs

Elite- Furioso Dreadnought with talons, heavy flamer, drop pod

Elite- 1 or 2 sang priests with jump packs

Troop- 2 or 3 assault squads with power fists, 1-2 meltas per squad

Everything else about my list changes depending on what I want to try out, I am still rather new to the game so my friend has been letting me use a lot of his models to find out which ones I really like >.>

BloodTzar wrote:How bout redeemer...not much can stand the love of AC + FC ...yeah and dont use smite on libby there are better...

Anyways would help if you would post your BA list as i think trouble comes from that direction...

DE have TONS of lance weapons. Do you want your 250 point tank to have AV 12?

He uses 4-5 lance weapons at minimum, and I am pretty sure I have seen him use more. Dark Lances are the main reason my dreadnought never makes it in to melee :(

razorback spam him

Moderas wrote:He uses 4-5 lance weapons at minimum, and I am pretty sure I have seen him use more. Dark Lances are the main reason my dreadnought never makes it in to melee :(

thats not a lot for a DE player. I run a list at 1750 that has 29 lance weapons. I know its an expensive propasition but if he is only going to run 5 lances you need to mech up. make a parking lot of 10 rhinos razorbacks and an odd preditor or dreadnaught.

Personally I like the Storm Raven as a Dread delivery system. They AV 12 negates the Dark Lance ability, and if you turbo boost the first turn your getting a +4 save.

jbunny wrote:Personally I like the Storm Raven as a Dread delivery system. They AV 12 negates the Dark Lance ability, and if you turbo boost the first turn your getting a +4 save.

But its 250 points, for that he can mech up his whole force, have a bunch of guns to bring down those raiders, plenty of armor to distract them, and he can just walk the dread in, if those incubi aren't shot to death first. Really, remove the raiders (dark lances), remove the problem.

250 really gives every unit it's on transport? WOW I have been over paying for things.

And unless you are spaming Missle Launchers and Lascannons, Raiders are hard to bring down first turn. The whole -6" and 5+ save makes them tend to stick around. Plus the fact that a good Mech list will have around 6+ Raiders that you have to deal with.

He only needs to bring down the ones with dark lances (4-5), Missiles are not the best way to bring them down, unfortunately BA is usually assault, so you go the razorback root, 250 will get you 3 razorbacks with a little left over. 3 armor 11 or one armor 12? you also have the bring down the Incubi raider first.

Besides 250 would buy you 6-7 Rhino's, so yes, it does mech out a WHOLE force.

Drop pod dreadnoughts against an assault heavy DE list with only a few lances is quite effective.

EIther DoA or drop pods for tactical/assault units with melta/infernus - they go after ravagers and trueborn, while dreadnoughts go after raiders with incubi and assault units. Give it a shot.

jbunny wrote:Personally I like the Storm Raven as a Dread delivery system. They AV 12 negates the Dark Lance ability, and if you turbo boost the first turn your getting a +4 save.

it negates the lance ability but its still a missile lancher. Str8 is still good against AV12.

DE can bring a lot of firepower and move it around to chase your storm raven. Even a 4+ cover save might not save you. Also if you are going flat out for the 4+ cover save an immobilized destroys you.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aqzbt5ifpccrdFBxblZMYTB5RXkzakpRZ2FCRmRWZ0E&authkey=CKrxu_AF&hl=en#gid=3


I pieced this list together from some of the suggestions here and in another thread. It uses very little mech (mainly because I own very little) but has a decent amount of meltas and power fists to down vehichles. Comments?

Moderas wrote:https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aqzbt5ifpccrdFBxblZMYTB5RXkzakpRZ2FCRmRWZ0E&authkey=CKrxu_AF&hl=en#gid=3


I pieced this list together from some of the suggestions here and in another thread. It uses very little mech (mainly because I own very little) but has a decent amount of meltas and power fists to down vehichles. Comments?

too many upgrades

plasma pistols and power weapons on your priests? You could just about have another priest.
Most DE have a 5+ save. You dont need power weapons you need more attacks. Against Incubi yes they have a 3+ save but they can target ICs so your priests are likely going to die rather quickly.

Powerfists are the same way. Sure you are already striking last but against everything he has you are already wounding on 3+ why pay that much to wound on 2+?(unless he has talos or cronos)
For vehciles a fist is kinda overkill, you need 6s to hit and then if you do succeed you will almost autopen but he gets his flicker field. Shoot raidres, hell even rapid fire them, if it comes to assault just use the Krak Grenades god gave you.

More men, more transports, less upgrades. Dakka them to death.