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Player at Ard Boyz begins pulling out his Black Templar army... arranges everything in nice neat squads of ten, pulls out drop pods, razorbacks, etc...

Then he pulls out Codex: Space Wolves! He explains that his lovingly (and very well) painted Templars are his babies, but they just can't compete. So using them as Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, and Wolf Scouts works out great and gives his expensive and well done army new life. Everything is WYSIWYG and the "counts as" is extremely straight forward and clear.

What do you think?

What do you do?

What do you say?

Extremely relevant to a local scenario for me, but I need some honest outside opinions on how to deal with this issue.

Thanks in advance guys, you rock!

Clearly he cares about his army...
Clearly he wants to compete with them...
And, though the long fangs are a little iffy considering they are BT counts as SW, i'd probably play him...
Especially if they were well painted.

"Oh, a counts-as army. Okay, everything's WYSIWYG? Cool, let's play."

Yeah, as long as it's all WYSIWYG I don't mind at all.

let him play... as far as i can tell the color schemes of your army do not determine what you are playing...

Sure, no troubles. I mean, they're little plastic guys, so as long as every rule he's rolling with is out of the SW Codex, and nothing is BT-related... sure, I'd play him. After all, it's not exactly a national tournament or anything.

As long as all the "counts as" units are declared before the game starts, and are identifiable, and remain under their "counts as" rules during the game, then there's really no problem, to be honest.

I can understand his reasons, but I feel that Templars are Templars and Space Wolves are Space Wolves. They have different Codexs and are different armies. If its just a friendly game, then whatever, but not at a tournament. I think its on par with pulling out Tau and calling them Grey Knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or maybe I'm just a prick... I seem to be in the minority.

Well, not really.

Power armor, check. Bolters, check. Missile Launchers, check...

See where I'm going with this?

Its most likely envy on my part. I've never owned or played a single space marine. So the idea of being able to pick up a different codex and play them as different guys is a strange thing to me...

Corey85 wrote:Its most likely envy on my part. I've never owned or played a single space marine. So the idea of being able to pick up a different codex and play them as different guys is a strange thing to me...

Never even played against a Space Marine? I find that pretty shocking, given how many Marine players there are.

I don't see this being a "controversy" at all; it's pretty cut and dry. Spacemans painted black instead of grey, properly modeled, no issue here.

Yeah, I'm a long time hobbyist but a recent gamer. I've been building minis for nine or so years now, but been gaming for about 10 months. My armies are modeled around fluff, not really designed for their ability to win. The small amount of games I've played have been against Necrons, Eldar and Tau. I stopped playing 40k and went to warmachine about 7 months ago, so that about 3 months of on and off 40k games.

So, I've always felt that armies should be what they are built as, but clearly this is from a person who doesn't play.

I would also like to point out that I highly doubt I would say no to someones face if they did this.

The best part of playing with power armor is you can use any book as long as your WYSIWYG. I constantly tell people who complain about their chaos armies to just run them as space wolves or blood angles so id be the last person to complain. Power armor is power armor SM should be one big book as far as im concerned.

The Space Wolf codex is actually a fairly decent choice for a counts as BT army.

I'm fine with count's as armies, as long as it's made VERY clear what is what or it's wysiwyg.

I've played against squats counts as IG, Blood angels counts as GK chaos cultists (don't ask.. i just let it go, given that the new GK book considers sorcery to be kosher and the new models were only just out a week before) and Chaos Daemons counts as Tyranids (with a soulgrinder tervigon popping bloodletters like no tommorrow... very unsettling to see ).

Marine as other marine *shrug*

At least the guy actually paints his minis, rather than having them be the Sons of Grey Plastic

Sure, go ahead. I'm guessing by your avatar that you're gauging people's reaction to you playing your own BT army as SWs?

It's not as confusing as my Night Lords that use the BA codex.

WYSIWYG doesn't extend to paint.

Corey85 wrote:Yeah, I'm a long time hobbyist but a recent gamer. I've been building minis for nine or so years now, but been gaming for about 10 months. My armies are modeled around fluff, not really designed for their ability to win. The small amount of games I've played have been against Necrons, Eldar and Tau. I stopped playing 40k and went to warmachine about 7 months ago, so that about 3 months of on and off 40k games.

So, I've always felt that armies should be what they are built as, but clearly this is from a person who doesn't play.

I would also like to point out that I highly doubt I would say no to someones face if they did this.

I totally get your viewpoint, and I'm pretty much right there with you - if the guy was using Black Templars and their actual codex, I'd think it was really cool that this guy was using a kind of wacky codex instead of something more popular, recent, and powerful. As you said though, you wouldn't say no to the guy.

Yeah, its always easy to stick to lofty standards over the internet, but when actually dealing with people face to face, I think most of us put aside our ideal situations and just try to work with it.

I suppose I reverse my response.

Play by the rules, play him. Paint doesn't mean anything in Ard Boyz.

Crusher050 wrote:let him play... as far as i can tell the color schemes of your army do not determine what you are playing...

Yeah so let imperial guard have a space marine codex.

Its not good, he painted black templars, the army is black templars so he should use the black templar codex. If he does not like the codex, then he should not have chosen to collect the black templars

SSsilverskullSS wrote:
Yeah so let imperial guard have a space marine codex.

Its not good, he painted black templars, the army is black templars so he should use the black templar codex. If he does not like the codex, then he should not have chosen to collect the black templars

It's different. Space Marine Armies are practically interchangable except for color scheme.

It's obvious that he cares about his army, and I'm not going to hold it against him that time has not been time to his codex. It seems unfair to think that someone shouldn't be able to proxy their army, simply because they made a choice a long time ago.

Given that he seems to have put thought into this, I have no problems with this guy.

If he tells you that during warp transit somehow the geller fields broke and the warp changed thier armour colour, why not?
But seriously go ahead and play, the guy seems like a person who loves his models.

SSsilverskullSS wrote:

Crusher050 wrote:let him play... as far as i can tell the color schemes of your army do not determine what you are playing...

Yeah so let imperial guard have a space marine codex.

Its not good, he painted black templars, the army is black templars so he should use the black templar codex. If he does not like the codex, then he should not have chosen to collect the black templars

I wasn't aware that Black Templar bolters and missile launchers looked so different from Space Wolf bolters and missile launchers.

He could have painted them pink and still used the Space Wolves codex. Or the Black Templar codex for that matter. The color doesn't matter.

its nothing personal its just that, he chose a black templar army, so he should use their codex

I'd let them do it. A marine army is a marine army, all that really changes is paint colour and equipment.

I would have absolutely no problem playing the guy! Seriously! Why get your undergarments all up in a knot about a GAME of LIL PLASTIC MEN?

AS LONG AS HE DOESNT POWER PLAY!

SSsilverskullSS wrote:its nothing personal its just that, he chose a black templar army, so he should use their codex

So? People can't try anything new without painting a whole new army?

"Cool, is it all WYSIWYG?"

"Great, would you be so kind as to run me through which units are which?"

"Awesome. Let's go."

"No, I don't mind at all. I don't get confused by the colours at all. I mean why would I? This is no different than somebody playing red/black/silver Dark Angels, blue Space Wolves or green Blood Angels."

So long as it is wysiwyg, I have no problem with it. My marines are my custom chapter and "counts as" is standard.

Now if they were trying to play as GK, then I'd have a problem.