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Hi guys,

This topic has probably come up millions of times before I decided to post this buuuuuut I'm finding that GW brushes are hit or miss and even if they are a hit, don't tend to serve me too long before they start to fray. I'm not overly hard on brushes and don't brush against the tip, just find they almost begin to get "memory" as to the direction certain hairs go which makes painting really scruffy and really annoying when you have to wash a brush to reset the tip all the time.
At my local Antics store they stock really good quality German horse hair brushes that aren't too expensive, around £4, about $6.39 in USD. They stay in shape WHATEVER I do to them, I decided to use one as a largh drybrush, slapped some paint on, yadda yadda, and after the brush was a mess, put it in some water, cleaned it up and went back to its fine tip and never had a problem with it while painting fine detail on tanks and dread's etc. Only problem is the smallest they do is the equivalent of a GW Basecoat brush and can't really get the detail on standard figues that I want from it.

Basically I'm getting really annoyed with buying fine detail brushes from GW all the time, any suggestions on a brand/model and estimation of price?

Thanks in advance.
Regards, Giles.

Winsor and newton series 7 (not series 7 miniature), size 1, size 0 and size 2. About £7-8 each from hobbycraft. There is nothing better, only some alternatives that are comparable. Time and time again they are the ones people will recommend, they are all I use and they are so much better than the GW ones that the GW ones feel like cheap freebies by comparison.

GW brushes are garbage, anything is an improvement. Well, almost anything. WN is the top there's a lot inbetween

I've just ordered some Army Painter brushes after the recommendations on here, will let you know.

The other ones that are mentioned a lot (as well as W&N series 7) are Rosemary and Co, but I haven't tried them personally


Automatically Appended Next Post:

legoburner wrote:Winsor and newton series 7 (not series 7 miniature), size 1, size 0 and size 2. About £7-8 each from hobbycraft. There is nothing better, only some alternatives that are comparable. Time and time again they are the ones people will recommend, they are all I use and they are so much better than the GW ones that the GW ones feel like cheap freebies by comparison.

How come not the Series 7 Miniature?

Ive got a brand new Detial brush that after 1 use and numerous attempts at cleaning it has just splayed out and wont form any sort of point :/

Windser and Newton sound good but £8 seems a bit steep, especially when you only get pocket money...

AustonT wrote:GW brushes are garbage, anything is an improvement. Well, almost anything. WN is the top there's a lot inbetween

Sometimes at Walmart they have very fine brushes in a pack. They last as long as the GW ones (bleh) but on the plus side are much cheaper.

Hatticus wrote:How come not the Series 7 Miniature?

Dont get me wrong, they are still good and serve a purpose - extreme detailing in particular, but they do not hold as much paint as the normal brushes so they dry out much faster and are less of a replacement for standard brushes compared to the standard series 7. Miniature are good for fine lines, excellent for eyes and features of that size, and are worth having a couple, I just wouldnt recommend them as an immediate thing to try when the problem is the quality of GW brushes.

Stavkat wrote:

AustonT wrote:GW brushes are garbage, anything is an improvement. Well, almost anything. WN is the top there's a lot inbetween

Sometimes at Walmart they have very fine brushes in a pack. They last as long as the GW ones (bleh) but on the plus side are much cheaper.

No Walmart's in the UK bro.

I hear about Winsor & Newton Series7 alot. Never tried them because I want to spend $15 on something I hadn't handled first hand. Army Painter brushes I have messed with for about a year solidly and I'm extremely happy with them. They're about $4-$8 USD, depending on size, and they've kept their tips very well.

Most hobby paintbrushes are hobby supplies. They last a while, and must be junked.

A good sable brush is a tool. Take care of it, and it'll last for years.

I'm not saying everybody needs a great brush, but if you feel that you're being limited by your brush, don't be afraid to invest some money.

MightyGodzilla wrote:No Walmart's in the UK bro.

Probably a good thing. Anywhoo, since my brushes don't seem to last, I usually go with something around GW quality but which is cheaper in cost. Although if the stuff people are mentioning actually lasts a bit, like the Army Painter brushes, I may have to invest in those.

Keep in mind that cheap brushes don't last because the bristles split and won't hold a point.

But even good brushes wont' last if you don't take care of them.

legoburner wrote:

Hatticus wrote:How come not the Series 7 Miniature?

Dont get me wrong, they are still good and serve a purpose - extreme detailing in particular, but they do not hold as much paint as the normal brushes so they dry out much faster and are less of a replacement for standard brushes compared to the standard series 7. Miniature are good for fine lines, excellent for eyes and features of that size, and are worth having a couple, I just wouldnt recommend them as an immediate thing to try when the problem is the quality of GW brushes.

Ah ok, that makes sense. Cheers!

People balk at the cost of a good brush, but the thing is, it's all relative. A good brush doesn't just paint better, it also lasts longer because the hairs are more resilient and snap back better. My W&N Series 7s have been in use for over a year now, and they're still in good shape. Meanwhile, I've burned through at least four sets of cheaper brushes that I haven't used that much differently than my W&Ns.

Keep in mind, though, I hear that W&N switched suppliers of sable fur recently, and the newest S7s are not nearly as good as the classics.

Also, there are other top notch sable brushes on the market. I use the Dick Blick Studio series, myself. Cheaper and still amazing.

I have found that "the masters brush cleaner and preserver" makes even cheap brushes perform better and last longer. It allows you to fully clean the brush and reshape it into a fine point.

Well im gonna play devils advocate here..! and put this out there Wa do you want form a £3 paint brush my gw brushes tends to last around 6 to 8 months ..! i clean them with prop brush soap after use , repoint and reshape them every time and they do a awesome job and like i said they are cheap i own a few winsor and newton brushes ranging from size 000 and up but the price oo boy oo boy mmm for a new painter not worth ruining..! i've only been painting 2yrs but GW brushes have done me proud..! think if you look after the brush the brush will look after you..

I've got all sorts of brushes inc GW ones. I get on ok but I feel prehaps i'm missing out.

With the windsor 7s, am I correct in saying they're water colour brushes?

If not, I looking at the wrong ones.

Ta in advance!

They are indeed branded as water colour brushes but work perfectly with acrylics.

legoburner wrote:They are indeed branded as water colour brushes but work perfectly with acrylics.

Thanks mate, i'm gonna spoil myself (yes I said 'spoil') and get a new brush! ;-)

Emperors_Champion wrote:

legoburner wrote:They are indeed branded as water colour brushes but work perfectly with acrylics.

Thanks mate, i'm gonna spoil myself (yes I said 'spoil') and get a new brush! ;-)

invest in a good brush soap though mate and remember to always repoint and reshape the hairs after use..!

bullyboy76 wrote:

Emperors_Champion wrote:

legoburner wrote:They are indeed branded as water colour brushes but work perfectly with acrylics.

Thanks mate, i'm gonna spoil myself (yes I said 'spoil') and get a new brush! ;-)

invest in a good brush soap though mate and remember to always repoint and reshape the hairs after use..!

Will do mate! I'm pretty good with looking after my brushes but I will admit, i've only ever used water to clean them. I'll get some of that soap stuff though, if i'm going to splash out on a new brush, I may as well have the proper cleaner. Like I said, i've always used cheaper brushes and I do an ok job, but with all the hype I keep reading about series 7s, maybe the cheaper brushes arn't helping. And who knows, with a new brush my eyes (the painted ones ) might not always come out crazy!

I've actually put an order in for some army painter brushes my self and i would like to try the gw brushes as well. i'm just starting out but i think a lot of it is how ruff people might be on there brushes when there having problems. I did look into the w&n series 7 just to ball park a price. funny thing was all my local stores that could order from windsor and newton told me that the series 7 are no longer avaible. that they have been disocontinued. something about the company changing a bunch of stuff or something. anyone else had this problem. did they change the name or type of brushes to look for?

If you dont mind ordering overseas, over here in the states a retailer sells Raphael brushes, I have absolutely fallen in love with these and have not used my Series &'s at all since buying them.

Here is a link;

http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=29

The bristles are just so much longer, leading to a larger paint resivour which really helps with blending.

Ashton

legoburner wrote:Winsor and newton series 7 (not series 7 miniature), size 1, size 0 and size 2.

I recently got some W&N's based upon Major Tom's recommendation, and they are indeed fine brushes. I got a 000, a 0, and a 1. If I could do it over again, I'd skip the 000 I got - the 0 is very similar in size with a fine point and can do anything the 000 can. Gunhazard TOLD me this but I didn't listen. I did get the brush cleaner recommended in that thread, and it is indeed nice for conditioning.

I just retired my first Games Workshop basecoat brush. It served me well for 16 months, but it did shed hairs quite a bit - but I did like that brush a great deal anyway. Any idea what the equivalent size would be in W&N? If it's like a 5, then I will get a replacement GWS since a W&N is like $30 and I seem to be able to make the GWS last for at least a year, and I doubt the W&N will last longer then 5 years... right?

Yep, W&N s7's can't be beat. The inital price is not even a factor when you realise that if you take care of them, you won't need to replace them for a very long time.

You should really only be looking for size 1 and smaller with series 7's though, the amount of hairs needed for thicker brushes means you can go over the $100 mark for large ones, and there is no real need for them in miniature painting as generally speaking any brush quality is fine if you are using it for basecoating

Would kind of be like scrubbing your dishes with a giant version of a high tech tooth cleaner instead of using a foam scrubber.

Edit: Oh and +1 for the masters brush cleaner, it's another buy that will last a very long time and serve you well. I have had that stuff completely renew a 5 year old large drybrush that was caked from tip to ferrule with old paint, and for keeping expensive brushes in tip top shape it's a clear winner.

I give my s7's a clean with it after every use and then use it to condition them into a point before putting their guards back on, leaves them feeling brand new for the next day.

Don't get the cotman WN (blue handle) as they are 100% watercolour brushes and will malform easily.

Ifalna wrote:Yep, W&N s7's can't be beat. The inital price is not even a factor when you realise that if you take care of them, you won't need to replace them for a very long time.

Amen. I've been using the same W&N 7 Miniature brush (size 0) for about 6 years now, and it's still in perfect condition.

Raphael was also mentioned as a great brand, and I props that +1. The 8404's are the ones I use, sizes 0 and 1 for all my basecoat and blending needs.


-DV8-

Just ordered my series 7s! Size 0 & 1. And some Masters cleaner!

Cool! I was half expecting a list of people's preferences but clearly W&N by the sounds of it. Thanks for all the helpful comments, I will comment back when they arrive in the post.

Emperors_Champion, please do let me know how you get on!

Will do!