Tzeentch

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**Brother Coa**

This guy can see the future and it is always 3 steps ahead of everyone ( even his own brothers ). Why don'y he kill 3 other Chaos Gods and take over?

**AlmightyWalrus**

...because the future is the only thing he can't see? Otherwise Kairos Fateweaver would be pretty redundant, don't you think?

**Toastedandy**

The true future is impossible to see, but he can foresee infinite amounts of possible futures, all he can do is try to manipulate people into creating this possible future. Anything can mess this up though, even stopping to tie your shoe laces will put a jink in his plan, unless he wanted you to tie your shoe laces.

**Necroshea**

Brother Coa wrote:Why don'y he kill 3 other Chaos Gods and take over?

I would imagine that if he just outright killed everything, he would have no more scheming to do because everything is dead.

**Revenent Reiko**

Lexicanum, Blue Scribes page wrote:
There was a time when Tzeentch reigned supreme over all of the Chaos Gods, and held more power than any of them individually. The other Gods became envious, and joined forces to overthrow Tzeentch, thus beginning a conflict that would leave much of the universe devastated. During the final battle, Tzeentch feared that the combined army of the other Gods would defeat him and take his crystal staff, the symbol of his power, and opted for an alternate and more cautious approach. Tzeentch yielded, and broke his own staff as a token of surrender. In a sorcerous explosion, the staff shattered into countless pieces. Each of these fragments took the form of a different spell, and was flung to every corner of space and time, irredeemably lost. This event coincides with the birth of magic, and helped ensure that nobody would ever wield as much power as Tzeentch once did.

Tzeentch isnt able to perfectly see the future, and if he tries to rise up again, the other 3 Gods would just beat on him again till he surrendered. He isnt more powerful than the other 3 combined....

**Brother Coa**

Necroshea wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:Why don'y he kill 3 other Chaos Gods and take over?

I would imagine that if he just outright killed everything, he would have no more scheming to do because everything is dead.

Emperor, Tyranids, Necrons, Eldar, Orks...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Revenent Reiko wrote:
Lexicanum, Blue Scribes page wrote:
There was a time when Tzeentch reigned supreme over all of the Chaos Gods, and held more power than any of them individually. The other Gods became envious, and joined forces to overthrow Tzeentch, thus beginning a conflict that would leave much of the universe devastated. During the final battle, Tzeentch feared that the combined army of the other Gods would defeat him and take his crystal staff, the symbol of his power, and opted for an alternate and more cautious approach. Tzeentch yielded, and broke his own staff as a token of surrender. In a sorcerous explosion, the staff shattered into countless pieces. Each of these fragments took the form of a different spell, and was flung to every corner of space and time, irredeemably lost. This event coincides with the birth of magic, and helped ensure that nobody would ever wield as much power as Tzeentch once did.

Tzeentch isnt able to perfectly see the future, and if he tries to rise up again, the other 3 Gods would just beat on him again till he surrendered. He isnt more powerful than the other 3 combined....

Good quote, but he is known to make other 3 Gods go in war with one another occasionally. Why he just make them go into such war and devastation that in the end he could easily kill all of them in their weak state?

**Revenent Reiko**

Brother Coa wrote:
Revenent Reiko wrote:
Lexicanum, Blue Scribes page wrote:
There was a time when Tzeentch reigned supreme over all of the Chaos Gods, and held more power than any of them individually. The other Gods became envious, and joined forces to overthrow Tzeentch, thus beginning a conflict that would leave much of the universe devastated. During the final battle, Tzeentch feared that the combined army of the other Gods would defeat him and take his crystal staff, the symbol of his power, and opted for an alternate and more cautious approach. Tzeentch yielded, and broke his own staff as a token of surrender. In a sorcerous explosion, the staff shattered into countless pieces. Each of these fragments took the form of a different spell, and was flung to every corner of space and time, irredeemably lost. This event coincides with the birth of magic, and helped ensure that nobody would ever wield as much power as Tzeentch once did.

Tzeentch isnt able to perfectly see the future, and if he tries to rise up again, the other 3 Gods would just beat on him again till he surrendered. He isnt more powerful than the other 3 combined....

Good quote, but he is known to make other 3 Gods go in war with one another occasionally. Why he just make them go into such war and devastation that in the end he could easily kill all of them in their weak state?

I am sure tha tthe other 3 are more than used to seeing Tzeentch manipulate them into war, and i would imagine that they would hold off on the big, Galaxy destroying wars that are pretty much the only way to weaken one of them...

**Brother Coa**

So it's a tie for everyone then?

**Gorechild**

Brother Coa wrote:So it's a tie for everyone then?

Pretty much, but as a general rule Khorne is seen as the strongest of the four, with Tzeentch a close second. Slaanesh is normally seen as the least powerful and Nurgle sits somewhere in the middle. This constantly shifts and changes though, if one starts to get an upper hand the other three wil beat them down, leveling the playing field again.

**yevix**

Gorechild wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:So it's a tie for everyone then?

Pretty much, but as a general rule Khorne is seen as the strongest of the four, with Tzeentch a close second. Slaanesh is normally seen as the least powerful and Nurgle sits somewhere in the middle. This constantly shifts and changes though, if one starts to get an upper hand the other three wil beat them down, leveling the playing field again.

First comes pleasure which leads to war which leads to death which leads to change.

the funny thing is that it doesnt even matter the chaos gods are simply manifestation of the warp and emotions, you can kill all life in the universe and the warp will still exist and in effect the chaos gods will always exist.

there is one thing I wanted to ask - the daemon forge place (the one that makes soul grinders) how come its never been taken over I mean surely if a chaos god took it over he could be even stronger....

**Durza**

Necroshea wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:Why don'y he kill 3 other Chaos Gods and take over?

I would imagine that if he just outright killed everything, he would have no more scheming to do because everything is dead.

The Great Game. If one god became utterly dominant over the others, the Warp would become calm and Chaos would cease to be.

**black templar**

That means he kills his servents they kill all who apose them and they do the dirty work.

**Harriticus**

Tzeentch plots for the sake of plotting, he really has no long-term plan, just plans that take centuries or millennia to play out.

**Durza**

He does have a long term plan, he just also has another which directly contradicts it.

**Brother Coa**

Durza wrote:He does have a long term plan, he just also has another which directly contradicts it.

He is always 3 steps ahead of everyone.

**black templar**

Brother Coa wrote:
Durza wrote:He does have a long term plan, he just also has another which directly contradicts it.

He is always 3 steps ahead of everyone.

If he was he would be the most powerful of them all.

**Durza**

He doesn't want to be the most powerful of them all, as he probably is the only one who knows what this would cause. He just wants to scheme.

**Mr Nobody**

Because that's no fun.

**King Pariah**

If he were then suddenly everything gets less grimdark as it implies that someone has an actual chance of winning. And like Mr Nobody said, that'd be no fun.

**bombboy1252**

The great game would get boring...and chaos wouldn't be as chaotic...

Tzeentch just likes to scheme, khorne wants blood, slaanesh wants pleasure and perfection, and nurgle wants death.

So if Tzeentch were to kill the other 3, he would be unhappy because that means a lot less plotting, sure he could scheme against the orks....but that's too easy. If khorne were to kill off the other 3, that would be much less blood/battle. If slaanesh were to win, less enemies to fight to perfect his battle skills, and if nurgle kills the other 3, less death/plagues.

So truly, no one god wants to win....they just want to fight.

**CpatTom**

Tzeentch can't plot goals. Goals imply a finish, when you reach a goal it is something you have created that shouldnt change. He just plots plots with no end. He is change, "winning" the great game (edit: ) would eliminate that change. Thus, he cant "win" without defeating himself as well.

**DarknessEternal**

CpatTom wrote:Tzeentch can't plot goals. Goals imply a finish, when you reach a goal it is something you have created that shouldnt change. He just plots plots with no end. He is change, "winning" the great game (edit: ) would eliminate that change. Thus, he cant "win" without defeating himself as well.

A lot of people have trouble accepting the idea that the Chaos Gods have no free will, but the above is exactly the case.

They are what humanity makes them and nothing more.

**CpatTom**

Exactly. They are defined by simple common denominator functions, all seeking to extend their own existence.

**Durza**

DarknessEternal wrote:
CpatTom wrote:Tzeentch can't plot goals. Goals imply a finish, when you reach a goal it is something you have created that shouldnt change. He just plots plots with no end. He is change, "winning" the great game (edit: ) would eliminate that change. Thus, he cant "win" without defeating himself as well.

A lot of people have trouble accepting the idea that the Chaos Gods have no free will, but the above is exactly the case.

They are what humanity makes them and nothing more.

Well it actually says that he plans no end to his schemes because he desires no end, indicating free will.

**Grey Templar**

Gorechild wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:So it's a tie for everyone then?

Pretty much, but as a general rule Khorne is seen as the strongest of the four, with Tzeentch a close second. Slaanesh is normally seen as the least powerful and Nurgle sits somewhere in the middle.

Of course this is all what Tzeentch desires.

Without the other 3, there would be stability and Tzeentch doesn't want that(or does he?)

Tzeentch is most certaintly the most powerful of the 4 chaos gods, he just lets Khorne think he has the title. Its all part of the plan.

**Durza**

Tzeentch just wants Tzeentch to think that. It's all part of a plan he forgot about.

**Brother Coa**

And if 3 Chaos Gods draw their power from Humans, would in not be logical for Slaanesh to draw power only from Eldar?
Or even Khorne to draw power only from Orks?

**CpatTom**

Durza wrote:
Well it actually says that he plans no end to his schemes because he desires no end, indicating free will.

He has no free will because he can not desire and end. If he could desire an end, he would have because he is all about change right? So, anything he has yet to do, it can be taken he can not do, otherwise he would have done it.

**Jollydevil**

Durza wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
CpatTom wrote:Tzeentch can't plot goals. Goals imply a finish, when you reach a goal it is something you have created that shouldnt change. He just plots plots with no end. He is change, "winning" the great game (edit: ) would eliminate that change. Thus, he cant "win" without defeating himself as well.

A lot of people have trouble accepting the idea that the Chaos Gods have no free will, but the above is exactly the case.

They are what humanity makes them and nothing more.

Well it actually says that he plans no end to his schemes because he desires no end, indicating free will.

I believe that what hes trying to say is that if hoomans stopped killing each other, induldging in too much pleasure, etc. The chaos gods would have no power whatsoever. Thus, their power lies with whatever humanity does/ thinks about, and thus couldnt really control themselves, rather the hoomans decisions controlling them.

**LoneLictor**

In my personal opinion, Tzeentch doesn't plan everything, just maybe 60% of everything. Afterall Nurgle, his nemesis, has canonically mucked his plans before. And furthermore, with entities like the Laughing God and the Deceiver, who are arguebly just as good at scheming as him, could he really control fates regarding things they were interested in.

Furthermore, assuming Tzeentch can plan everything, his only goal is scheming. There's nothing beyond that. As long as everything goes according to plan he's fine with it.