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Suppose that Tau colonize new world and discover ruins of an old Human colony from Golden Age era. And in their excavations and studies of the ruins they discovered several STC's completely intact.

- Would they try to build what was on STC's using the plans that are stored into it?
- If Adeptus Mechanicus found out about his would they raise a Crusade force much more bigger then Democles one or try to negotiate?

If the AdMech found out they would do everything in their power to destroy the Tau and take the STC.

Taking an STC from the AdMech is like taking cookies from a fat kid. Foolish and suicidal.

This is the Imperium. (negotiating? Sounds an awfull lot like heresy to me...)

Brother Coa wrote:If Adeptus Mechanicus found out about his would they raise a Crusade force much more bigger then Democles one or try to negotiate?

Oh, another Tau genocide thread by Brother Coa! I am impressed that you could wait a whole week before starting the next one!

Having found a fully functioning STC could actually explain the Tau's rapid technological leap...

//Calle

The Fabricator-General invokes the Treaty of Mars and the High Lords uninamously proclaim a grand Crusade to claim the STC. We'll be seeing entire Chapters and Titan Legions as well as MASSIVE Imperial Guard armies and Imperial Navy fleets advancing into the Tau Empire to claim or worst-case scenario, destroy the STC. It's gonna hit the Tau worse than the 13th Black Crusade hit the Imperium of Man.

Brother Coa wrote:Suppose that Tau colonize new world and discover ruins of an old Human colony from Golden Age era. And in their excavations and studies of the ruins they discovered several STC's completely intact.

- Would they try to build what was on STC's using the plans that are stored into it?
- If Adeptus Mechanicus found out about his would they raise a Crusade force much more bigger then Democles one or try to negotiate?

Outside the fact you are always looking for ways to do the Tau in.

1. Perhaps, perhaps not. The Tau have no prejudice against alien tech. They would certainly take it apart, see how it ticks, and see if it was worth putting back together again or perhaps improving on. The US and the Soviets during the cold war routinely tried to take each either other's equipment apart to replicate it or improve on it. During the second world war any captured German equipment was taken apart to try and replicate (heck, the AK47 of Russian make is based on the German MP44). There was no ideological problems with this. In this respect the Tau wouldn't refuse to use a STC in the same vein. However, it may not matter. STCs are not all weapons. They can just be a set way to make a very fancy tooth brush.

2. What would it matter?

Most if not all of the worlds within the Tau sphere of influence were discovered and cataloged long before the Tau as a species were just an irritating blip on the Empires xenophobic radar. The intervening 6-8 millenia have changed things slightly of course.

Any STC would have been discovered long ago. Barring a fluff bomb, the Tau wouldn't have any floating around I'd think.

If the Ad Mech found out that the Tau had an STC, even a Mr. Coffee STC, the Legios would walk. There would also be negotiations along the lines of 'give us the STC, or else'.

Would Tau even be capable of understanding an STC? This isn't a slight upon their technological know-how, but one would expect knowledge of Terran Dark Age of Technology-era language, scientific notation, etc. to be fairly arcane and restricted to the upper echelons of the Mechanicus.

Indeed, would the Tau even be interested in STCs? Their own technological basis is, after all, pretty high - i.e. anti-grav tanks, plasma guns which don't routinely explode, artificial intelligences.

Eck, a Brother Coa thread...

English - Yes, STC's were designed so that a lowly, presumably bearly educated, colonist could construct and assemble almost anything from scratch, if a human colonist could understand it then a Tau engineer should be able to (provided they can understand the DAoT era language). Scientific notation, etc. should be non-existent, STC's aren't engineering manuals, they are instruction sets.

Brother Coa wrote:Suppose that Tau colonize new world and discover ruins of an old Human colony from Golden Age era. And in their excavations and studies of the ruins they discovered several STC's completely intact.

- Would they try to build what was on STC's using the plans that are stored into it?
- If Adeptus Mechanicus found out about his would they raise a Crusade force much more bigger then Democles one or try to negotiate?

You never run out of doom and gloom scenario for Tau, do you?

Couple problems with this 'what would the Emperor do' questions:

- Tau probably lack the sufficient ciphers to translate the entire STC, however, it probably wouldn't stop them from referring to similar language they may have already discovered and interpreted.

- It's doubtful the Adeptus Mechanicus would find out.

- A Crusade would drain/cripple resources that would be greatly needed (around the Eye of Terror, Armageddon, and the Ork Empire at Octarion). Now depending on when this 'supposedly' happens, this could change, but the Imperium would lose more than it would gain, considering they don't even see Tau as a threat.

Jag_Calle wrote:Having found a fully functioning STC could actually explain the Tau's rapid technological leap...

//Calle

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I am thinking that by the time the IoM finds out about the STC, the tau will have already tore the thing apart. The only way to get it back would be to negotiate. Something that happens a lot with the tau.

KplKeegan wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Suppose that Tau colonize new world and discover ruins of an old Human colony from Golden Age era. And in their excavations and studies of the ruins they discovered several STC's completely intact.

- Would they try to build what was on STC's using the plans that are stored into it?
- If Adeptus Mechanicus found out about his would they raise a Crusade force much more bigger then Democles one or try to negotiate?

You never run out of doom and gloom scenario for Tau, do you?

Couple problems with this 'what would the Emperor do' questions:

- Tau probably lack the sufficient ciphers to translate the entire STC, however, it probably wouldn't stop them from referring to similar language they may have already discovered and interpreted.

- It's doubtful the Adeptus Mechanicus would find out.

- A Crusade would drain/cripple resources that would be greatly needed (around the Eye of Terror, Armageddon, and the Ork Empire at Octarion). Now depending on when this 'supposedly' happens, this could change, but the Imperium would lose more than it would gain, considering they don't even see Tau as a threat.

Ever heard of the Treaty of Mars? The Imperium doesn't have a choice. An STC is holy writ for the Mechanicus. The Imperium would have to help the Mechanicus who'd stop at nothing to get that back or to destroy it to prevent the Tau from debasing it's holy Human technology.

I have to agree with the possibility of the Tau having found one and already tore it apart and improved on it, that being how they advanced technologically. But wouldn't Tau weapons and vehicles look and act much different though? I'm under the Impression that stc designs didn't have skimming technology, correct me if i'm wrong.

King Crow wrote:I have to agree with the possibility of the Tau having found one and already tore it apart and improved on it, that being how they advanced technologically. But wouldn't Tau weapons and vehicles look and act much different though? I'm under the Impression that stc designs didn't have skimming technology, correct me if i'm wrong.

Land Speeders are STC-tech. But STC tech is very human in design, so I doubt if the Tau had found one. And even in the Dark Age, plasma tech was very unstable. And the Tau plasma tech is stable and different. Human plasma tech works using miniature plasma generators. Tau plasma tech works by de-stabilizing particles as they progress out of a pulse weapons barrel. And compared to Imperial/Eldar skimmers, Tau are quite quiet.

King Crow wrote:I have to agree with the possibility of the Tau having found one and already tore it apart and improved on it, that being how they advanced technologically. But wouldn't Tau weapons and vehicles look and act much different though? I'm under the Impression that stc designs didn't have skimming technology, correct me if i'm wrong.

Well they would look different because the tau would pull out the basic principles and knowledge and build on it. Like with there warp drive. It's made form someone else warp drive and yet it still looks tau. Same deal with the kroot rifles, modified by tau pulse tech, but still look and act like kroot weapons.

IoM do have skimmers that's actually what promoted this idea. If you find a Skimmer SCT (and understand it), then you have found the anti gravity generator (one of the core tau tech). Over time that one anti gravity generator gets changed till it doesn't act anything like the device that spawned it. It's off shooting rail rounds now.

I don't see why the Tau wouldn't just hand over the STC, they could avoid conflict and get rid of an object that in all probability wouldn't work for them anyway.

I'd have to believe the Tau would simply give it back. They would see the size of the Imperial force arrayed against them, realize that the STC probably doesn't offer them any new usable knowledge, and decide that it would best serve the greater good not to engage in holy war with the Imperium.

Once the STC is recovered, there would be no more reason for war, so there would be no fighting.

No, they won't. They'll just say that it belongs to his holiness Aun'va crap and antagonize the Imperials. The Crusade would burn everything and stop at nothing to get or destroy that STC.

Tadashi wrote:No, they won't. They'll just say that it belongs to his holiness Aun'va crap and antagonize the Imperials. The Crusade would burn everything and stop at nothing to get or destroy that STC.

I'd be willing to bet they would give it up if the Imperium actually wanted it.

The whole Damocles Crusade thing? That was basically Sicarius and whoever happened to be close by deciding they would kick the Tau's teeth in for fun. It was what, MAYBE 10 companies worth of marines?

If the Imperium mobilized space marines in multiple chapter strength.... there would be NOTHING the tau could do to stop them, and it would probably provoke Xenocidal rage in the Imperium if they tried to defend. It would be the end of the Tau Empire. Granted, there would be a horrible price for the Imperium... they would probably lose dozens, hundreds of worlds when they pull away resources to do this, but they would consider it worth the cost, depending what the STC was for.

The Tau would know this, and would see its for the greater good not to be a smear on the bottom of the imperial foot. The only reason the Tau survive next to the Imperium at all is that the Imperium has better things to worry about. The Tau for the moment really aren't a threat (though they may be someday) and there just aren't enough resources to fight the current threats AND kill the Tau.

Point taken. A Crusade might consist only of Titan Legions and full Astartes Chapters would be something the Tau couldn't hope to stand against. But knowing the Tau, they'd probably procrastinate even when the Imperium is holding a gun to their heads. If they go too far, and the tech-mages get impatient, then it's bye bye for the Tau.

And Sicarius's campaign wasn't at Damocles. It was at the Zeist campaign.

I imagine that the Admech is a little gun shy after they lost there last titan.

Even if they ware, they can ask help from the Astartes. They wouldn't hesitate to invade, and would be overjoyed to kick xenos ass.

That's likely. There are always crazy amounts of SMs used to fight the tau.

There best option is to send the diplomat though. People seem to think that the IoM is frothing at the mouth thinking about killing the tau, but there really not. They would much rather talk talk then attack. Then when they do attack, they don't send a lot of people because they really don't want to do it.

AdMech wouldn't let the Tau live it down, they're jerks like that. They'd probably just continuously attack Tau worlds in search of more STC's weather they have them or not

nomotog wrote:That's likely. There are always crazy amounts of SMs used to fight the tau.

There best option is to send the diplomat though. People seem to think that the IoM is frothing at the mouth thinking about killing the tau, but there really not. They would much rather talk talk then attack. Then when they do attack, they don't send a lot of people because they really don't want to do it.

Even if diplomats are sent in, if the Mechanicus/Astartes get impatient, there's little that the Administratum could do about it. The Ordo Xenos would support such a move, since it would provide an excuse to capture Tau for 'study'. The Treaty of Mars gives the Mechanicus a free hand regarding STCs, and they and the Space Marines don't answer to the Administratum.

nomotog wrote:I imagine that the Admech is a little gun shy after they lost there last titan.

Not a chance, in the 13'th Black Crusade they lost many Titans and didn't care a lot.
Tiger Shard is basically Barracuda with all of it's guns stripped down and with only 2 Railguns ( 2 Railguns stripped from Tau Navy Battleship, down't know what class - IA never said ). Basically, that would be like stripping Thunderbolt with all his weapons and mounting either Lance batteries or Nova cannon on it.
The point is - while it's good to take down a Titan ( Warhound only, others are much tougher ), it is very vulnerable to every other threat ( infantry, tanks, aircraft ). That means that in next battle Tau will need to protect them, if they can because all Imperial anti-air guns, Lascannons, MIssle Launchers will target Tiger Shark.
IA also said that Titans have bigger range then Tau Railguns, meaning that Tau don't have anythign yet to counter Titans - much less Space Marines.

The Tau probably would consider it an interesting bauble and nothing more. The Tau technology is advancing very fast and the imperium is regressing. Give the Tau another 50-100 years and Titans and Marines won't be much of a problem for them.

Crimson Devil wrote:The Tau probably would consider it an interesting bauble and nothing more. The Tau technology is advancing very fast and the imperium is regressing. Give the Tau another 50-100 years and Titans and Marines won't be much of a problem for them.

You do know that Mankind technology from Golden age make Tau like cavemen in comparison?