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Article

NAPLES — A 15-year-old who fatally stabbed his school mate will no longer face criminal prosecution.

A judge’s ruling, made public Tuesday, granted a motion to dismiss the second-degree murder charge against Jorge Saavedra in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno on the grounds that he acted in self-defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law. The State Attorney’s Office has indicated that it will not appeal the ruling.

Nuno’s family and friends criticized Collier County Circuit Judge Lauren Brodie’s decision, calling it “unbelievable” and “heartbreaking.”

“We know this wasn’t the right decision,” said Dylan’s aunt, Adriana Nuno.“(The judge) is showing those kids it’s OK to get away with murder.”

Saavedra, who was 14 at the time of the stabbing, was charged as a juvenile. If found guilty, the former Palmetto Ridge High student would have been released by the age of 21.

Brodie’s ruling concluded that Saavadra, who said he was bullied and tried avoid a fight with Nuno, did not act unlawfully. She added that Saavadra had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.

Brodie based her decision this week on the findings from a two-day December hearing, during which students who witnessed the events Jan. 24, 2011, testified that several teens announced the fight on the bus, and Saavedra got off several stops early in Golden Gate Estates. Saavedra showed a pocket knife to two teens on the bus that afternoon.

In a nine-page document released Tuesday by the State Attorney’s Office, Brodie stated that by getting off the bus several stops before the location where the fight was to happen, Saavedra “demonstrated that, with or without a knife, (he) had no desire to fight with Dylan Nuno.”

Umm, he should be punished at least somewhat. I read the whole article and Dylan may have followed him off the bus and started the fight, but Jorge ran away and then suddenly stabbed him 12 times in the abdomen and chest. After maybe a couple stabs I don't think it would be self defense anymore unless that Jorge guy was seriously hoped up on goofballs.

I'm happy it ended that way that it did. Bully thought he was big man on campus until he took a couple inches of steel to the gut and lost his life.

I guess I was wrong to think that Golden Eyed Scout was all bark and no bite.

Turns out he was rather handy with a knife, as he had claimed.

There's that bittersweet sense of Justice both being served and denied simotanously. The kid stabbed someone to death on one hand, and stood up to bullying albeit a step above what I consider practical on the other. The judge made the right decision, the family of the erstwhile "victim" will probably spend a great deal of time wringing hands and gnashing teeth ignoring the fact that theirs is the side of a boy who was determined to beat the gak out of a smaller boy and got his comeuppance plus a share.

I want to say that bullying is bad, first of all.

But to get off on murdering this kid is a bit much.

One (un)lucky self defensive stab resulting in a death? Ok, slap him on the wrists, give him a record, and make sure he knows he did bad.

Twelve stabs? Waaaaaaay too much.

Don't start none, won't be none!

What more is the kid supposed to do, he got off the bus early and ran away from his attacker. I would have sentenced him to some counseling though, he's probably gonna need it. Twelve times just screams anger issues.

Andrew1975 wrote: Twelve times just screams anger issues.

Or someone who dedicates himself to his work.

And people say kids are slackers these days...

It's unlikely that, as a 14 year-old, he could have counted the stabs and become rational at an accepted point.

If he had been continuously bullied, letting out all that pent up anger, especially at an age where your emotions are by no means mature, could very well have been the cause of the number of stabbings.

I honestly think that the number of stabs here is unimportant; here is a kid who was bullied by someone, was pressured by students who advertised fights, and who showed no willingness to fight, only a desire for self-preservation should it occur. As an adult, it probably would've been more important; we're meant to be in far more control of ourselves, both physically and mentally, whereas a kid of 14 is full of puberty and walking around with an immature mindset.

If a grown man went into a stabbing frenzy, he should've known better, and restrained himself more, but how can you expect someone whose young and immature mind is in a state of mental turmoil, to realise that 12 stabs is too many, when he probably stopped counting after the first as his pent up rage and other emotions boiled over?

Slarg232 wrote:But to get off on murdering this kid is a bit much.

He didn't murder anyone, he killed someone in self defense.

Did anyone read the article? He got off the bus multiple stops before to avoid fighting, then when they (a group of kids) found him he tried to run away and they punched him in the back of the head.

So he tried to avoid violence 2 times and found himself facing a group of kids older than himself after everything he did. So he stabbed the kid in defense, good for him he didn't end up the victim.



What I don't get is the people defending the dead bully, if you raise your kid to be an idiot don't be shocked when it bites him in the ass.

Avatar 720 wrote:It's unlikely that, as a 14 year-old, he could have counted the stabs and become rational at an accepted point.

If he had been continuously bullied, letting out all that pent up anger, especially at an age where your emotions are by no means mature, could very well have been the cause of the number of stabbings.

I honestly think that the number of stabs here is unimportant; here is a kid who was bullied by someone, was pressured by students who advertised fights, and who showed no willingness to fight, only a desire for self-preservation should it occur. As an adult, it probably would've been more important; we're meant to be in far more control of ourselves, both physically and mentally, whereas a kid of 14 is full of puberty and walking around with an immature mindset.

If a grown man went into a stabbing frenzy, he should've known better, and restrained himself more, but how can you expect someone whose young and immature mind is in a state of mental turmoil, to realise that 12 stabs is too many, when he probably stopped counting after the first as his pent up rage and other emotions boiled over?

Still, he should get something.

Yes, the bullied is the victim here, but honestly, we are missing a bit of info here;

How long after he pulled the knife did the kids start backing off? Did he warn him or just stab him?

I'm not saying he was wrong to stab the guy, just saying he was a little excessive.

Ahtman wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:But to get off on murdering this kid is a bit much.

He didn't murder anyone, he killed someone in self defense.

Potato, Potahto. Someone died, didn' they?

As long as the bully suffered as much pain as possible, then it was a good outcome.

Murder is different from killing; soldiers kill the opposing force, they do not murder the opposing force.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:I guess I was wrong to think that Golden Eyed Scout was all bark and no bite.

Turns out he was rather handy with a knife, as he had claimed.

What an odd reference.

I'm with Slarg.

12 Stabs? Seriously? Overkill in the 1st degree,

It was a pocket knife not an Arkansas toothpick. It might have taken 12. Love to see the weapon though...

AustonT wrote:It was a pocket knife not an Arkansas toothpick. It might have taken 12. Love to see the weapon though...

That's creepy

Slarg232 wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:It's unlikely that, as a 14 year-old, he could have counted the stabs and become rational at an accepted point.

If he had been continuously bullied, letting out all that pent up anger, especially at an age where your emotions are by no means mature, could very well have been the cause of the number of stabbings.

I honestly think that the number of stabs here is unimportant; here is a kid who was bullied by someone, was pressured by students who advertised fights, and who showed no willingness to fight, only a desire for self-preservation should it occur. As an adult, it probably would've been more important; we're meant to be in far more control of ourselves, both physically and mentally, whereas a kid of 14 is full of puberty and walking around with an immature mindset.

If a grown man went into a stabbing frenzy, he should've known better, and restrained himself more, but how can you expect someone whose young and immature mind is in a state of mental turmoil, to realise that 12 stabs is too many, when he probably stopped counting after the first as his pent up rage and other emotions boiled over?

Still, he should get something.

Yes, the bullied is the victim here, but honestly, we are missing a bit of info here;

How long after he pulled the knife did the kids start backing off? Did he warn him or just stab him?

I'm not saying he was wrong to stab the guy, just saying he was a little excessive.

Article wrote:Accompanied by several students, Dylan Nuno, a junior, followed Saavedra, a freshman, off the bus. He then punched him in the back of the head, according to court documents and testimony.

Saavedra attempted to get away once, witnesses said. He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the chest and abdomen. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart.

The kid was assaulted first from behind and chased down, before resorting to the knife. I assume the other guys who followed the bully ran off during the stabbing. It's not like he walked up to Nuno and stabbed him, he was attacked first and then chased when he attempted to get away, I say the blow to the head sort of makes up for the lack of any mentioned warning.

He was essentially cornered, with attempts at getting away being foiled and with no other way of escape apart from using the knife or submitting to, most likely, vicious physical attacks. Even if we don't bring the stuff from my first post into it, blind panic from having no other means of escape could have driven him to a stabbing frenzy on its own; a cornered animal fights twice as hard, I don't see it being any different for cornered people with nothing to lose and only going off immature survival instincts.

Its a tragic event, but one that was perpetuated and escalted multiple times by the deceased.

It is hard to feel much sympathy for a predator who gets some of his own medicine in a situation he willingly created A situation whose purpose was to derive enjoyment in the mental/physical/social anguish of someone weaker then one's self.

If I ever found out one of my kids was bullying someone here would be hell to pay. I have zero tolerance for such predatory stupidity and have conveyed this to my sons clearly and regularly since they have been old enough to understand the spoken word. I pray it is never an issue.

Reminiscent of Ender's Game.... fight once, but strike hard enough to never be bullied again.

I blame the bullies parents. Its their fault their son was an ass. If they did a better job raising him, maybe he wouldn't have been such a dick.

Andrew1975 wrote:

AustonT wrote:It was a pocket knife not an Arkansas toothpick. It might have taken 12. Love to see the weapon though...

That's creepy

Which part?

AustonT wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

AustonT wrote:It was a pocket knife not an Arkansas toothpick. It might have taken 12. Love to see the weapon though...

That's creepy

Which part?

Love to see the weapon though. It's got that whole creepy murder pornography feeling.

Yay for ignorant comments! I'm sorry, but that's what everyone going on and on about the "12 stabs" has made so far in this thread.

Did any of you stop to consider that the "12 stabs" were not described? Did he suffer 12 serious, inch deep wounds, or did a couple stabs kill him and the rest were nicks?

Did you stop to think that the bully kept coming after the first 10 stabs and it was only the last one or two to put him down?

Did you stop to think that, "Hey, when someone is like 12" away from me I can stab them like 12 times in under 10 seconds..."

What PROBABLY happened was that the VICTIM continued to avoid the BULLY until one day he was finally confronted and forced to fight. Flustered, overcharged with adredaline, and in fear of either physical harm, he reacted in extreme self defensive which resulted in the death of his assailant.

Not once did the VICTIM stop and think "Hey, I really should only stab him once or twice." He was PROBABLY aiming center mass and unleashed a flurry of blows that did not stop until the BULLY was no longer moving. Then he PROBABLY stumbled a way disoriented and in complete shock over what had just occurred.

This was not premeditated murder, this was a fourteen year old defending himself against multiple older and probably larger young men. I am not going to argue over whether or not the bully got what he deserved, but you bleeding hearts should be ashamed of yourselves for even once suggesting that the VICTIM of repeated bullying and harassment should be punished for defending himself.

Until these posts differences of opinion with others on this site have been simply differences of opinion. This is the first time I have been absolutely disgusted by another person's posts here.

This is the first time I have been absolutely disgusted by another person's posts here.

Huh, and after 2197 posts even. That's gotta be a record.

Oh, hey I got this for you...



Nobody is killing anyone here. Hell, few people are actually defending the Bully.

Amaya wrote:I am not going to argue over whether or not the bully got what he deserved, but you bleeding hearts should be ashamed of yourselves for even once suggesting that the VICTIM of repeated bullying and harassment should be punished for defending himself.\

Your heart appears to be bleeding.

No one defended the bully. All people were saying was maybe the kid shouldn't have gotten away scot free. I like Andrew1975's solution; no serious punishment, but counciling and the like to make sure he's sane/keep him sane.

Andrew1975 wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

AustonT wrote:It was a pocket knife not an Arkansas toothpick. It might have taken 12. Love to see the weapon though...

That's creepy

Which part?

Love to see the weapon though. It's got that whole creepy murder pornography feeling.

There's a big difference between this:

and this:

You can call it what you would like, I call it looking for the facts. The knife and wound are essential to understanding what happened.

Ah see curiuosity. I just imagined someone really really really wanting to see the bloody knife that actually did the deed. I would assume it was a pen kinfe, I can't really see him sneaking Rambos knife into school.

Slarg232 wrote:

Still, he should get something.

Yes, the bullied is the victim here, but honestly, we are missing a bit of info here;

How long after he pulled the knife did the kids start backing off? Did he warn him or just stab him?

I'm not saying he was wrong to stab the guy, just saying he was a little excessive.

Ahtman wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:But to get off on murdering this kid is a bit much.

He didn't murder anyone, he killed someone in self defense.

Potato, Potahto. Someone died, didn' they?

The harm that killing Dylan Nuno did to Saavedra's mental health is punishment enough. Killing someone isn't easy, in fact, most people don't have it in them to take a human life without special conditions. Unless Saavedra is psychotic, he's going to have problems the rest of his life. So should the law treat him like a criminal, which would give him even more problems and possibly make him even more unstable?

It's more complicated than potato, potahto. Murder requires mens rea. Self defense is about staying alive, not necessarily killing. Just imagine what you would do if you had an older person assaulting you with a gang at his back and you had a knife in your pocket. I'd use it, I'm sure everyone who's posted on this thread would use it. That doesn't make them a criminal.