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In this thread, we shall list units that are currently useless... and write rules that make them better. Or even remotely useful.

Like, the Dais of Destruction...

Dais of Destruction - 300 (?) points (plus Vect's 240)

WS8 BS8 S3 Fr13 Sd13 Rr13 I5 A5

Fast, Skimmer, Open-Topped, Transport capacity 12

Wargear
As he is always an integral part of the Dais, Vect may use any of his weapons while on the Dais. Therefore, he may use his Obsidian Orbs or Splinter Pistol to fire from the Dais and while the Dais is in close combat he will attack with his Sceptre of the Dark City and Splinter Pistol. Note that it is he and his incubi bodyguards who are attacking in close combat, not the Dais itself.

The Dais itself is armed with a void lance and two void disintegrators, as well as Flickerfields and Night Shields.

Void Lance - 36", S9 AP2 Assault 1, lance (same as Voidraven)
Void Disintegrator - 36", S7 AP2 heavy 1, blast, rending OR 36", S4 AP3 Heavy 3

Special Rules
Aerial Assault

Personal Transport: Vect cannot dismount from the Dais of Destruction. The Dais also carries Vect’s two Incubi bodyguards, who will defend their master in close combat with 2 WS5 S4 power weapon attacks. When the Dais is destroyed Vect is treated like an embarked passenger, however his Incubi bodyguards are killed along with the vehicle crew.

Close Combat: The Dais fights in close combat like a walker and can charge 12”, providing it did not move flat out in its last movement phase. Due to its size and bulk, it counts as being equipped with frag grenades.

Dark Scythe: Once per game, Vect may channel his energy into the Dais’ Dark Scythe. He may not take any other action on the turn he does this except moving in the movement phase, although the Dais may only move at combat speed (6”).
The Dark Scythe has the following profile: Range, Hellstorm template, S10 AP1 Ordnance 1 Lance
The Dark Scythe will cause D3 hits to any vehicle it touches.

No Mercy, No Respite: The Dais is equipped with powerful force fields that make it almost immune to lesser damage. It ignores Crew Shaken results on a 2+ and Crew Stunned results on a 4+.

Options
+The Dais may replace any of its void disintegrators with void lances……free
+The Dais may replace its void lance with a void disintegrator………………free


Go! Re-write the rules for the units you currently think of as useless.

Death Company:

If Lemartes is chosen, the death company's rage is tempered and directed by the veteran chaplain, as he guides them in the name of the Emperor.

In game terms, the Death Company becomes controllable. Huzzah!

Sniper Rifles, I already posted a thread about.

Honestly I think just letting the Dais take upgrades would make it more palatable, though changing the Darklances to Void Lances certainly wouldn't hurt.

Court of the Archon: Each option is a 0+ choice. (Instead of 1+)

Mandrakes: Add "Shadowy Terror." The unit counts as having Plasma Grenades (Their uncanny grace allows them to move around objects and through the shadows they cast, making their assault impossible to predict)
Add: Additional close combat weapon.
Add: When the mandrakes gain a second pain token, they count all attacks (including ranged) as rending. When they gain a third, they count ranged attacks as AP1 and CC attacks as power weapons.
Add: "Devil's Due." If the game ends and the Mandrakes are still alive (even if they are fleeing) but they do not have a pain token, your enemy nominates one HQ selection that you control. That HQ selection and the mandrakes count as having been destroyed. The Mandrakes will collect their payment, by any means necessary!

I know!

Lets give Monolithes Quantum Shielding! AV 16 anyone? With old school Living Metal and new one!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
/sarcasm


If Death Company lost rage they would be game breaking. The Dais is already nasty. Vect+Lelith+8 Bloodbrides in a flying Land Raider? No thanks.

Ahem..from a thread that I made.

Flayed One - 15pts a model
Elite Choice
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv4+

Unit Size: 5-20

Wargear = Filthy Claws, disturbing apparel

Filthy Claws = The Flayed One's claws are coated with rotten pieces of meat and old blood. This naturally is a breeding ground for bacteria.
The Flayed One has poisoned (4+) attacks. They count as one weapon, and as such will not grant the bonus for 2 close combat weapons.

Disturbing Apparel = The Flayed One is draped in the rotting skin of their victims, and their gears are often clogged with the flesh and blood of their prey.
Any enemy unit in CC with a unit of Flayed Ones must take a leadership test at the beginning of the round. If they fail, they must reroll all successful hits against the flayed ones.
This ability has no effect on fearless models; they simply are not phased.

Special Rules -
Deepstrike, infiltrate, Fearless, the hunger, Resurrection Protocols

The Hunger = Flayed Ones may never consolidate after close combat. They are too busy feeding.

Ogryn
WS4 BS3 S5 T5 W3 I3 A3 Ld6 Sv5+
35 Points per model 45 for bone'ead
Unit Size: 3-10 Ogryn
Upgrades
Can take a weapon that makes their attacks +2 strength and replaces the ripper gun

Rending
Furious Charge

Buttons wrote:Ogryn
WS4 BS3 S5 T5 W3 I3 A3 Ld6 Sv5+
35 Points per model 45 for bone'ead
Unit Size: 3-10 Ogryn
Upgrades
Can take a weapon that makes their attacks +2 strength and replaces the ripper gun

Rending
Furious Charge

\

I understand the furious charge, but why rending? And aren't the current rules concerning the ripper gun better than here?
As I understand it, Ogryns ATM can get both the ripper gun and a strength bonus.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Buttons wrote:Ogryn
WS4 BS3 S5 T5 W3 I3 A3 Ld6 Sv5+
35 Points per model 45 for bone'ead
Unit Size: 3-10 Ogryn
Upgrades
Can take a weapon that makes their attacks +2 strength and replaces the ripper gun

Rending
Furious Charge

\

I understand the furious charge, but why rending? And aren't the current rules concerning the ripper gun better than here?
As I understand it, Ogryns ATM can get both the ripper gun and a strength bonus.

Rending is to make them better against armoured enemies in hand to hand as well as vehicles. Besides they are giant hairless gorillas, I am fairly certain they could smash something apart with their brute strength regardless of armour, which rending represents rather well. I noticed that they actually have furious charge, which I tossed in because they should have it and I was too lazy to check my codex beforehand. As for the strength bonus, I can't find anything relating to it.

Pretty much the main point is to make Ogryn better against vehicles and MEQs through the rending and MCs through the strength bonus. Besides they get three attacks, 4 on the charge, which is the same as a daemonette and more than a genestealer, so they have enough to justify rending.

Not quite, I'm afraid.

Orks have 3+ attacks, and they don't have rending. Neither do scarabs.
However, I do agree that they should be able to bash through armor.
Perhaps a -1 save modifier on the charge? That should represent their sheer brute force when they are on the warpath.

Of course, if they do get a weapon that gives then +2 strength they shouldn't have the bonus against vehicles. S8 on the charge with 4 attacks will have them ripping apart most vehicles.

The problem with close combat rending is that its more to represent sharp claws rather than brute strength, which is why wraiths, genestealers and demonettes get it.

Assault cannons and sniper rifles also get it, but they are ranged weaponry and so require a different criteria. AC get rending to represent the sheer velocity of the bullets, and sniper rifles get it to represent the hit slipping through armor.

I am sure they get a S bonus from the ripper gun. Then again, I may be thinking of the old codex.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Not quite, I'm afraid.

Orks have 3+ attacks, and they don't have rending. Neither do scarabs.
However, I do agree that they should be able to bash through armor.
Perhaps a -1 save modifier on the charge? That should represent their sheer brute force when they are on the warpath.

Of course, if they do get a weapon that gives then +2 strength they shouldn't have the bonus against vehicles. S8 on the charge with 4 attacks will have them ripping apart most vehicles.

The problem with close combat rending is that its more to represent sharp claws rather than brute strength, which is why wraiths, genestealers and demonettes get it.

Assault cannons and sniper rifles also get it, but they are ranged weaponry and so require a different criteria. AC get rending to represent the sheer velocity of the bullets, and sniper rifles get it to represent the hit slipping through armor.

I am sure they get a S bonus from the ripper gun. Then again, I may be thinking of the old codex.

Even if rending represents sharp claws and whatnot, Ogryn should get something similar since they have enough strength to simply toss an Eldar or human across a room with ease they could probably smash apart marine armour through brute force. Maybe give them their own special rule similar to rending. Perhaps for every 6 rolled during wounding rolls the opponent has to reroll successful saves. I can check out heresy's combat calculator to see how they might do against enemies.

As for the strength bonus I cannot find anything about it, looking at the entry they have the same basic stats mentioned, the furious charge, stubborn, and bulky special rules, and a ripper gun, which only has the same rules as any other assault weapon.

Yeah, they removed it then.
In the previous IG codex the ripper guns gave ogryns a +1 S bonus in CC.
No idea why they removed it :/

Either reroll successful armor saves, negative save modifiers or a roll of a 6 to wound causes another save all sound good and fluffy to me.

Just give them rending against non vehicles.

TankBustas:

Replace Glory Hounds with Preferred Enemy: Vehicle.

Would do gak except against walkers. PE only works against models with a WS.

Whatever, then. Give them Tank Hunters, then.

Yeah, I never understood why they never had Tank Hunters to bein with.
I mean, they are Tank Hunters! Well Tank Bustas...you get the idea.

Monoliths should have the following rule :

Light of Oblivion:

When a Monolith enters the game via deep strike it doesn't scatter. The Monolith is allowed to deep strike onto enemy models, these get struck by surges of green light while the Monolith materializes. Every enemy model within 6" takes a str 3 ap - hit. If the model is still alive it must move out of 6" range of the monolith. This distance is travelled alligned with the central point of the monolith.

Points wise the Monolith will cost a tad more (220p)

Also tank bustas should have tank hunters! c'mon they NOW DA BEST WAY TO KILL SUCH TANKS!

Sounds reasonable.

I would just give the monolith its DS immunity back. Or even better, have it Tank Shock/Ram on arrival.
It shall be known as the paperweight of death!

Make its tank shock cause a morale test at -4 Ld. +3 to ram strength.

Deadshot wrote:Make its tank shock cause a morale test at -4 Ld. +3 to ram strength.

I dunno...its already at a fairly high S.

I mean, DS is at cruising speed so S4. Monoliths are AV14 so that's S4+4. And its a tank, giving it S4+4+1.
This brings it at a total of S9. The -4 modifier to Ld is fairly OTT.

I would just have it Tank Shock/Ram on arrival and keep it at 200pts.

Of course, for balance reasons every other vehicle that can DS should also be able to Tank Shock/Ram.

No I meant instead of TS on arrival.

Give lictor/deathleaper a special rule to assault on turn of arrival, simply because they then don't die.
Also any ideas about the old one eye? I mean he sucks so bad, flash gitts laugh at him

Triarch Praetorians

2 Attacks

Abaddon's wacky daemon weapon.

If Abaddon rolls one for his Daemon Weapon attacks, he does not take a wound, he simply counts as Fighting with a Lightning Claw or Power Weapon and losses the bonuses of the Daemon Weapon for that turn.

Conscripts
Make Chenkov a replacement for a company commander instead of a platoon commander.

That is all, then I could take 4-5 basic platoons with Chenkov and spam conscripts with send in the next wave, 200-250 conscripts that keep coming back. Bow before my endless horde of conscripts. Either that or lower their costs to 3 points per model. Also makes all your lascannons and railguns and plasma guns and meltaguns a waste.

But you would fear the Pieplate like no other.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I understand the furious charge, but why rending?

Personally, I suspect that it's because it seems pretty much everyone and their mothers seems to think Rending is the instant-fix/solution to any rules problem?

@Buttons, On-topic, 4 Strength 6 attacks on the charge is plenty anti-tank and perfectly suitable for representing their strength IMHO.
I'd say drop rending, up their leadership and depending on ripper guns and transport-capacity-occupying, they'd be worth about 30pts.

blood reaper wrote:Abaddon's wacky daemon weapon.

If Abaddon rolls one for his Daemon Weapon attacks, he does not take a wound, he simply counts as Fighting with a Lightning Claw or Power Weapon and losses the bonuses of the Daemon Weapon for that turn.

Despite this being pretty much the exact change I made to his Daemon Weapon, I'd say more than that is needed to make him truly worth his cost; particularly a change to his manoeuvrability.

Flash gits: Reduce WS to3, increase BS to 3.
give badrukk BS 3 as well.

Also, change Gitfinda to allow a choice between Pre-measuring, or allowing the unit to split fire to up to 1d3 targets chosen at the start of the shooting phase.

Deadshot wrote:But you would fear the Pieplate like no other.

So? My squads start to run low I just kill them off and replace them. TBF the unit would still probably be a second rate unit, but at least it wouldn't be a third rate unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Dave wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I understand the furious charge, but why rending?

Personally, I suspect that it's because it seems pretty much everyone and their mothers seems to think Rending is the instant-fix/solution to any rules problem?

@Buttons, On-topic, 4 Strength 6 attacks on the charge is plenty anti-tank and perfectly suitable for representing their strength IMHO.
I'd say drop rending, up their leadership and depending on ripper guns and transport-capacity-occupying, they'd be worth about 30pts.

I actually did some quick math hammer and rending was worthless, in the Ogryn thread I came up with this idea that seems workable.
"... for every 2 strength greater than their target's toughness they (the target) have a -1 modifer on their armour saves. So a group of Ogryn with base strength 5, +2 strength due to weapons, and furious charge would modify MEQs to having a 5+ armour save, guards and Orks wouldn't get and armour save at all."