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I was at my FLGS last week with a vanilla space marine army. I decided to play a game with a 30ish guy and his kid (about 10 or 11)against me and my friend. Of course, the kid wasn't the best tactician, and my Space Marines devastated his Space Wolfs, he sent about two packs after me, and I defended with a thunder cannon, a scout squad with sniper rifles, a tacticle squad. His 20 men was reduced to five in turn due to some lucky rolls. I than went after his Wolf Gaurd terminators with an assault sqaud and a terminator squad, and destroyed it within two turns losing only a terminator and two SMs.
So, at the end, the kid was understandibly distraught and told me that I "shouldn't lay into him like that", and his dad was a bit pissed to. Told me to be more nice to a beginner ( the kid played 6 games so far), and demanded an apology. I explained to him the nature of the game and how to kid should just get used to it, and how it was just some lucky dice rolls. The kid got even more pissed and had his little whine fest about how I was a WAAC gamer. Keep in mind that this was my 11th game, and I never used a third of the units in my army including the thunder cannon. The dad said that if he didn't recieve the apology by Monday (even gave me his email for it), he would report me to the manager for being "disruptive and agrressive against a new player". No doubt that the manager would just laugh it off once I explained my side.

So obviously, this was a little misunderstanding mixed with some paranoia that every good dice roll means that the opponent is a master tactician. I really don't see what the problem was: in my first few games, the opponent went easy on me, but on my 5th game, my opponent completely devastated my army, because of some lucky rolls and speed, and yet I wasn't complaining. So, dakkadakka, what do you think about this?

I wouldn't worry about it, from what you've said the father seems to have the mental age of his offspring. What did your partner think of what happened? What was your demeanour like, did you act like a sore winner?

The kid sounds a little unreasonable to me. Seems like you behaved sensibly and he hasn't quite grasped what it takes to lose at something yet. We all lose eventually, some more than we win. He'll just have to learn that's part of the game.

I'd like to know what you and your partner were acting like, just so there isn't any gaps in this story. This could easily be something where it is prone to misinterpretation.

dæl wrote:I wouldn't worry about it, from what you've said the father seems to have the mental age of his offspring. What did your partner think of what happened? What was your demeanour like, did you act like a sore winner?

Not really. I did a bit of celebrating of course (15 space wolves dead, said Woo) My friend defended me for a short while, saying that I didn't realize that there was a group of wolves so near my units, and than got caught in a conversation. He asked me what happened afterwords, though.
In all honesty, I tried not to act like a dick.

Sounds like precious snowflake syndrome

Phototoxin wrote:Sounds like precious snowflake syndrome

^This. Which is a problem, as our failures are what form us into who we are. In the words of the great philosopher Jagger "you can't always get what you want"

I have layed very little games so far, and no one gave me any quarter. They only gave me advice after they tabled me.
What i have to say? Just play the game. If they leave the store? its their loss.

psh what ever. i would tell him to stfu, then invite him for a rematch and REALLY kick his butt. tailor your list and just go full bore hardcore on him. kick his butt so hard he pukes last weeks s***.

then ask him if he still wants that apologie.

the game is competetive by nature. playing a g ame and expecting to win because your new, and whining when you loose... all thats going to do is encourage the behaviour. the butt kicking serves a greater purpose and is a much needed method of paying your dues.

DarthSpader wrote:psh what ever. i would tell him to stfu, then invite him for a rematch and REALLY kick his butt. tailor your list and just go full bore hardcore on him. kick his butt so hard he pukes last weeks s***.

then ask him if he still wants that apologie.

the game is competetive by nature. playing a g ame and expecting to win because your new, and whining when you loose... all thats going to do is encourage the behaviour. the butt kicking serves a greater purpose and is a much needed method of paying your dues.

Wow, that sounds like the worst thing to do, if the kid and his dad got upset about a legitimate loss, how does coming back and being an absolute going to help at all?
As for this game being competative by nature, i'll agrred to that ish, but by far the most important thing to do is have fun. This hobby is expensive, and having to quit because you're not enjoying it means you've wasted a lot of money (and it seems like a lot more to a little kid) that you may or may not get back on Ebay.

OP, there was nothing you can really do in that situation except try and get them to think about it positively, i had a situation where i was on the bad end of a goof natured stomping in a three player game , my dark eldar were getting swarmed by Blood angels, and Lilith Helsprix did nothing all game until she maged to tie up a Terminator death star for three turns, killing six.

I was feeling rather down, but the Blood angels player pointed out that that squad she had decimated had walked through the Deamon player's force without losing a man, and that one scantily clad elf managed to shame all those bloodletters, and i felt better about the whole thing and even had a laugh about it later.

I had a similar experience, I was playing a kid who was about 14 at the local GW (he was the only one there with an army...sigh, but at least I got a game). Anyway, he was necrons, and absolutely nothing went right for him. He had imotekh, and a good list built around him, yet I seized intiative, passed every NF roll in my turn, and then he failed every single night fighting roll on his first turn, and got no lightning. Then NF ended on turn 2. And then I pen'd/wounded/he failed cover almost every time, yet he couldn't hit/wound/pen regular guardsmen and vendettas. It was just...I felt so bad, every dice I rolled was coming up a 6, yet this kid couldn't get out of his deployment zone really.

I can see how, if his mum had come up earlier than she did, it would have seemed like I was just stomping him into the ground. Thankfully when she asked how he was going the kid was pretty grown up about it and explained that his dice were hating on him and that they would burn when he got home. If it had gone the other way, and the kid had complained to his mum like the kid in your story did, I may have been in a similar situation to you.

There's really nothing you can do if they want to complain about a game, and you are right, a competent manager would just soothe the dad's anger and everything would end up all right, but just make sure you respond in the right way in the initial confrontation, which it sounded like you did, and it'll be all good.

And it is only one side we are getting, one man's downplayed and reasonable actions may be another man's antagonising and aggravating actions.

No need to apologize. Kid needs to have his balls dropped. The father sounds like a bad sport to begin with. If you were playing chess and beat him would he expect an apology, monopoly, checkers, uno, battleship, pick up sticks,hungry hippo's, etc. These are all games.

Heck, I still consider myself a noob. I have played a total of 20 maybe 30 games. My first, oh 17 or so, I lost, some bigtime. I still lose about a 1/2 the time. I got irritated, but chalked up the losses to experience, and have gotten better. The way the dad and kid wanted an apology is just winey. Take the glory with the losses also!

Unless you broke Wheaton's Law then no apology is necessary.

Ignore them. If anything, I'd call the kid a bad sportsman who's spoiled by his parents.

Assuming things went down they way you describe, they're way out of line. It's a game, you don't need to apologize for winning, as long as you weren't a poor sport about it.

Do yourself a favor, though, and let the manager know what's up, and that Pops is trying to blackmail an apology out of you. That way, come Monday, if Pops makes good on his threat, the manager won't fly into it blind and will already know your side of things. And, by all means, avoid playing either of them again. The kid sounds like a brat, and his old man sounds like a bully.

You are in the right OP. You weren't wrong at all. Don't feel bad. Hopefully the manager isn't incompetent.

My vote is to let the manager know the situation and your position on it, after that leave it to him. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't a bad sport about whooping a little kid as you seem disturbed about it enough to ask a bunch of strangers for an opinion on the matter.

now to stand on my handy box:



what really burns though is the fact that the dad had a great chance to teach the kid a great life lesson about the value of failure, and to present the kid with the question of "why did you lose?" I'm of the opinion that you really don't learn as much from your victories as you do from your defeats (in a game or life in general) and its just terrible that the man who's supposed to be teaching his son these lessons is being childish about it as well.

*gets off soap box*

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

that dad needs to grow the heck up

dont apologize

unless you were like mocking him every turn like "ha ha your marines are dead again" thats just bad sportsmanship but if your just a better player than him he needs to grow up.

sure you could of gone easier on him but hes got to learn to play the game some day and having people only play at 50 percent isnt going to help him in the long run either.

but yeah they are a bunch of cry babies 10 year olds shouldnt be playing 40k their is no way they can understand the rules to even a decent extent.

I believe the dad needs to apologize for acting like a five year old. You beat them fair and square, you did nothing wrong, you have no reason to apologize.Looks like the game is too mature for that family.

Out of curiosity? How old are you?

Coming from your side of the story, you sound like you are in the right.

However, I would be remiss if I didn't point out, that you may avoid further conflict, by just apologizing. Do you know how well the Dad and the Manager know each other? How Old you are makes a difference as well. The Manager could easily side with the dad, depending on the factors in the situation, weather he is right or wrong.

You certainly have no obligation to apologize, but I'd hate for something like this turn ugly, which it could easily do, when it's a pretty simple solution. I wouldn't play them again, either way.

Take his email and sign him up for every porn site you can find. At least then the next time you see him you could have something worth apologizing about.

I'm gonna go against the grain here:

You need to treat kids with a bit more care. Their responses are often more extreme than an adults and they're still learning how to handle themselves.

You also need to treat beginners with more care, and maybe explain to them what they're doing wrong during the game. I've even pointed out my opponents mistakes during Grand Tournaments.

Also, you need to be more empathetic. When you destroy a good chunk of the enemies army, watch their reaction. If they take it on the chin and have a laugh about it, then maybe some friendly taunting or celebrations are in order. If they look sullen and surprised, then perhaps it's best to make a comment about how you got lucky, or their armour saves should have been better. I've sometimes apologised to new or young players for pulling off a particularly good move.

IcedAnimals wrote:Take his email and sign him up for every porn site you can find. At least then the next time you see him you could have something worth apologizing about.

I concur!

Iranna.

IcedAnimals wrote:Take his email and sign him up for every porn site you can find. At least then the next time you see him you could have something worth apologizing about.

That would be absolutely hilarious.

So basically he wants to hear you say "sorry for winning"? If what you say is true, and there is nothing else to your story, there would be no way that I would apologize.

Kaldor wrote:I'm gonna go against the grain here:

You need to treat kids with a bit more care. Their responses are often more extreme than an adults and they're still learning how to handle themselves.

You also need to treat beginners with more care, and maybe explain to them what they're doing wrong during the game. I've even pointed out my opponents mistakes during Grand Tournaments.

Also, you need to be more empathetic. When you destroy a good chunk of the enemies army, watch their reaction. If they take it on the chin and have a laugh about it, then maybe some friendly taunting or celebrations are in order. If they look sullen and surprised, then perhaps it's best to make a comment about how you got lucky, or their armour saves should have been better. I've sometimes apologised to new or young players for pulling off a particularly good move.

I'm going to go with Kaldor on this one. You can do a little jig on the inside to your hearts content, but it's best to gauge how your opponent is taking a particularly heavy loss or defeat before celebrating out loud. Kids, especially new players, are going to find it a lot harder to laugh about their prized brand-new army getting stomped into the dust. And if a parent sees their kid getting upset because of this it's not strange at all for them to take their side. But for the father to demand an apology via email either points to him being a bit of a tosser or that you perhaps weren't as conservative in your celebrations as you suggest.

While I wouldn't go so far as to apologise for a good move or a successful maneuver, I generally try to attribute my success to the luck of the roll rather than infer that I'm simply playing better than them.

Mr.Fuffcans wrote:
what really burns though is the fact that the dad had a great chance to teach the kid a great life lesson about the value of failure, and to present the kid with the question of "why did you lose?" I'm of the opinion that you really don't learn as much from your victories as you do from your defeats (in a game or life in general) and its just terrible that the man who's supposed to be teaching his son these lessons is being childish about it as well.

*gets off soap box*

This. Exactly what I have been thinking all along.

Kaldor wrote:I'm gonna go against the grain here:

You need to treat kids with a bit more care. Their responses are often more extreme than an adults and they're still learning how to handle themselves.

You also need to treat beginners with more care, and maybe explain to them what they're doing wrong during the game. I've even pointed out my opponents mistakes during Grand Tournaments.

Also, you need to be more empathetic. When you destroy a good chunk of the enemies army, watch their reaction. If they take it on the chin and have a laugh about it, then maybe some friendly taunting or celebrations are in order. If they look sullen and surprised, then perhaps it's best to make a comment about how you got lucky, or their armour saves should have been better. I've sometimes apologised to new or young players for pulling off a particularly good move.

I really have to side with Kaldor here. I wince when I get really good dice rolls against experienced opponants (unless those rolls are evening out previous bad turns,) let alone against noobs and god forbid, kids. I wasn't there, but allowances have to be made for younger players if we choose to play against them. I also have to agree that the dad could have turned the loss into a good learning experience for the kid, giving him a chance to step back and look at the game to find ways to improve. At that age, though, it is difficult to manage your emotions in the face of such blatant frustration. I'm planning to teach my daughter to wargame, and we're starting off with Lego Heroica games, Chess, and the like to run down basic elements of strategy. I try to remind her that no one is picking on her, it's just the nature of the game. I also try to point out when it was bad luck on either side, and really play up the good things in the game. If I'm about to pull off a particular move that will be devastating to a new opponant, I'll slow way down and explain why what I'm about to do is a good idea, and what they could have done to avoid it. Then I lay out the manuver carefully step by step so they see what's happening. Obviously if the kid was really whining and upset and made you feel embarrassed, sometimes the best thing you can do is just shut up and pack your army. At this point, apologizing to the dad is just going to be embarrassing and awkward for everyone, but if you can discuss the matter with the dad, and even include the manager on the matter, I'm sure some resolution can be made, allowing the manager to get both of you to apologize, both feel vindicated, and keep two customers in your store.

And if you're really, really lucky, maybe you'll see that kid again, better prepared and vowing to not go so easy on you.

Though I have to ask Kaldor, did you offer the same even temper and fairplay to Mortorian? I mean, dude. That was his heart.

BattleGoat74 wrote:

Mr.Fuffcans wrote:
what really burns though is the fact that the dad had a great chance to teach the kid a great life lesson about the value of failure, and to present the kid with the question of "why did you lose?" I'm of the opinion that you really don't learn as much from your victories as you do from your defeats (in a game or life in general) and its just terrible that the man who's supposed to be teaching his son these lessons is being childish about it as well.

*gets off soap box*

This. Exactly what I have been thinking all along.

And Kaldor, I did try to be empathetic to them, with good natured ribbing. When the dad demanded the apology, I tried to explain to him the nature of the game, and how the kid could learn from his mistakes. The dad said that even he couldn't win against someone whos WAAC. I'm not WAAC.

I am curious what your list was actually. I know you said you had a thunderfire cannon, sniper scouts and a tactical squad (none of which are WAAC units). And honestly vanilla marines aren't even a top 5 codex. So I am curious why your opponent would use that particular jab against you. Though it does seem that no matter what people are fielding, if anything you use does well then that unit is cheesy and you are only fielding it because you WAAC