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I've always wanted to start a horde-assaulty army, and ork just seems to fit the profile.

However it just seems that 6th, just like 5th, favours shooty army more than assault army. I've noticed people mitigate this by using shoota+dreads with shooting. What I would like to know is whether will green-tide with dreads/boyz/ mayby flyer support be competitive or not in 6th. Also, should they be shooty or assault army? What general 1,750 list would be?

Thanks a lot!!

6th ed moved greatly against assault armies, and it moved slightly against horde armies. As such, you're going to have a tough time of it with a choppy horde army now. Slugga mobs lost a lot through changes in fleet, furious charge, and random charge ranges, while also losing properly hidden power klaws. Meanwhile, shooting got a lot better what with improved rapid fire and heavy weapons, worsened cover, and overwatch.

I'd basically assume that a slugga mob would arrive wherever they go seriously depleted, and if they managed to eliminate their target (far from certain), then they're just going to be hideously gunned down the following turn.

To do a green tide, you're probably going to be better off now with shootas in a generally shooty list (especially because lootaz just got scary good).

Ork are probably going the way of guard here - reverting to a shooty army with a few choppy elements - in the case of ork, MANZ and nob bikes, which apparently got a nice boost.

My experience with green tide in 6:th is that a mix of sluggas and shootas works pretty well. Run your shootas in 20-30 mobs with big shootas and a nob with bosspole and your sluggas in 30 mobs with a PK and big shootas if you want. Lootas and deffkoptas are good in support and I guess that a blitz bomma or dakka jet would be useful but I havent had the chance to try it yet.

If you are serious in starting e green tide list you should take the chance to search ebay the black reach boyz while you can.

If you're going to run Green Tide, you NEED to run Shoota Boyz. Never ever take Choppa Boyz anymore, for obvious reasons. Ork Bomma/Loota support is the obvious choice to balance out the list. If you're running Kans/Dreads, you need to focus on mechanized Orks rather than footsloggin' the horde, so don't bother with any Heavy Support other than Battlewagon, specifically to transport Boyz/Nobz.

Green tide of shoota boys, lootas, artillery cannons for hs, and some dakka jets for fa. Everything is infantry or a flier. Seems solid to me.

Come to think of it, Kans/Dreads really do not fit foot list anymore. Reduction in cover and hull points hit them too hard. Too bad really, since i really love their models.

One thing about artillery that i don't like is the short range of it. 36" will not be able to cover the whole board, so i'm quite curious on how effective they will be. One thing of note though, i feel like they make very good sceening units. So you can have T7 grots running forward not shooting and just screen your orks... Actually that sounds really fun.

Wupin wrote:Come to think of it, Kans/Dreads really do not fit foot list anymore. Reduction in cover and hull points hit them too hard. Too bad really, since i really love their models.

Spot on there, I think. Havent had a game of 6th edition yet, but my last major purchase from GW was to get me enough Killa Kans/Deff Dreads to get myself a full kanwall list up and working. Gonna have to figure out what to change/how to adapt to make it work now though. KFF's are still good, but now it's only a 5+ cover save for both my footslogging shoota boys and the kan wall.
Furthermore, one of my favourite tactics was to get my killa kans into close-combat with units that couldnt damage it (assuming they survive long enough to get there), but now close combat is risky business, what with krak grenades being a more viable solution to walkers. In addition, if a unit cant damage them, they have the option to fail a morale test and fall back away from it.

Might have to get me some lootas now, and may instead bring my battlewagons into use again. I like dakkajets, and I love the models, but I missed out on the WD issue that had their rules/wargear/costs, so tough luck for me :(
Seems like dakkajets could solve a lot of my problems now.

* Lootas are much better. Being able to move and snap shot is very nice. Being able to move 1 or 2 of them and still get your shots is nice.

* Nob bikers are awesome. Consider adding a squad to your green tide army for punch.

* 180 Fearless models is very durable. In 5th edition, green tides were vulnerable to be wiped out by fearless wounds in assault Now, every single model must be killed. Your boys are not an aggressive style, its a durability style of play. Its hard to kill T4 models 180 models.

* There are some good tricks you can do with HQ. Mega-armor, for example grants SnP to Lootas, allowing them to move and shoot.

* Snikrot is nowhere nearly as good as he was.

* Allies open some excellent options.

* Ork Psykers are something to look at now

labmouse42 wrote:
* Snikrot is nowhere nearly as good as he was.

* Ork Psykers are something to look at now

Forgot about Snikrot, since there's never been a game where I havent used him in 5th. Since he's not allowed to assault on the turn he's coming off reserves, it diminishes his value greatly for me. Best I can do with him now is to use the Kommandoes with burnas to spray back-line units. But then right after they'll just be shot off the board anyways.

In what way is a Weirdboy useful now? I looked at the FAQ/Errata and I was a little saddened that they dont have access to the new psychic disciplines. I suppose the extra Waaagh! if you're lucky is nice. Especially if you got yourself a couple dakkajets.

Ronin wrote:In what way is a Weirdboy useful now? I looked at the FAQ/Errata and I was a little saddened that they dont have access to the new psychic disciplines. I suppose the extra Waaagh! if you're lucky is nice. Especially if you got yourself a couple dakkajets.

Really?

Well, I guess that keeps his regulated to the specalized lists, like bringing 2 of them to try and force a Waaaagh every turn, or in a KP denial list to provide teleportation (that's dependent on how tourneys do missions)

Otherwise big meks/warbosses are the way to go.

Kans are weaker due to hull points being pitiful and the kff as well. Dreads are still a little too pricey for my liking.

Then ork boyz need kffs, it is too hard to get all your boyz cover saves now. One of the reasons hordes worked was that your boyz would have 4+ save until they reached cc.

It'll still work, but just not to the same degree as before.

Well, since 6th lets you hit vehicles on 3+, I assume that you can hit harder especially against 5th meta parking lots.

You reach them harder but hit more damage, so I thought it would even out a bit?

A horde of boys does great things for you, just like it did in 5th.

Kans still work.

In fact everything but snikrot still works for orks. Vehicles are easier to kill in melee, which is a huge boon, and fliers are the only problem for orks, which orks have their own fliers so no biggy.

Green tide got a lot better with the change of fearless wounds.

Shoota boys benefit from overwatch as much as anything I can think of.

Dreads and Kans are rubbish now. I am waiting for them to start showing up on ebay 70% off.

Don't forget it's now easier to get cover now for vehicles, even though the ubiquitous 4+ is gone, 25% is way easier to achieve.

Green Tide isn't workin' well dere, sounds like ya needz moar BOYZ!

You know, if you really wanted kanz, perhaps you just need to reverse their deployment. Put some KFF boyz in front to provide cover for the kanz, rather than the other way around.

I can sort of imagine a kanz sandwitch, with the boyz being the bread.

Seriously is no one missing always having 4+ cover saves for their saves?
True, losing less to fearless wounds is pretty sweet against certain armies.

Honestly, the fact that casualties are removed from the front is by far the biggest blow to Green Tides.

Today, I was able to keep two full units of 30 shoota boyz away from my army, ultimately destroying them. That ability to delay their arrival has very, very notable consequences.

Kanz are still great by the way

MFletch wrote:Seriously is no one missing always having 4+ cover saves for their saves?
True, losing less to fearless wounds is pretty sweet against certain armies.

It was only 4+ cover for vehicles. Footsloggers had and still have a 4+. It hasn't changed.

Orks won with a 5+ on vehicles before and can do it again.

Dr. What wrote:It was only 4+ cover for vehicles. Footsloggers had and still have a 4+. It hasn't changed.

Except that it has changed for both vehicles and footsloggers. Coversave from KFF is only 5+ now.

Ronin wrote: I like dakkajets, and I love the models, but I missed out on the WD issue that had their rules/wargear/costs, so tough luck for me :(
Seems like dakkajets could solve a lot of my problems now.

You can find the WD with the Ork Flyer rules on GW site. Can be purchased as a single issue. They hold issues 7 months back for sale on the site.

The sheer volume of dakka that a green tide can put out is scary, Assaults don't really work as well now (I will be running a mob of slugga boys as a counter attack unit though).

A strong infantry force with a lot of lootaz backed up by a couple of Zapp gun batteries and some warbikes/rokkit buggys seems like a very capable list.

Ronin wrote:

Dr. What wrote:It was only 4+ cover for vehicles. Footsloggers had and still have a 4+. It hasn't changed.

Except that it has changed for both vehicles and footsloggers. Coversave from KFF is only 5+ now.

Maybe he was talking about the aegis defense line.

Aegis defense line >= KFF. It still lets you buy 2 warbosses, which are money in this edition with challanges.

My bad, maybe he did. Wasnt clear.

Gonna be fun running my Warboss again.

Ailaros wrote:6th ed moved greatly against assault armies, and it moved slightly against horde armies. As such, you're going to have a tough time of it with a choppy horde army now. Slugga mobs lost a lot through changes in fleet, furious charge, and random charge ranges, while also losing properly hidden power klaws. Meanwhile, shooting got a lot better what with improved rapid fire and heavy weapons, worsened cover, and overwatch.

I completely disagree with this statement. Low-model count assault armies are in a worse place, horde armies got a gigantic buff. If you put 180 boys on the table and you'll completely control what goes on in the game. Overwatch benefits Orks a great deal since it's basically an extra round of shooting at almost the same BS, you don't take fearless wounds which is one of the biggest changes across the board. Green tide armies are going to be super strong in 6th.

Stoffer wrote:I completely disagree with this statement. Low-model count assault armies are in a worse place, horde armies got a gigantic buff. If you put 180 boys on the table and you'll completely control what goes on in the game. Overwatch benefits Orks a great deal since it's basically an extra round of shooting at almost the same BS, you don't take fearless wounds which is one of the biggest changes across the board. Green tide armies are going to be super strong in 6th.

I disagree with this. With a lower cover save, they are easier to kill, and due to wound allocation, much easier to hold at bay. Who, by the way, actually assaulted a mob of 30 boyz in 5th, anyway?

Your normal anti-infantry is going to be much more powerful. Blasts and flamers, again when combined with lower cover save and removing casualties from the front, should keep them out of assault and keep them fighting to stay close to objectives. Hell, even smaller calibre fire will make them lose ground inch by inch. Additionally, wound allocation will often put the Nob under stress due to the front casualty line drawing closer, encouraging them to be placed further back. The further back they are placed, the harder it will be for them to make it into combat.

That said, Slugga Boyz are still good stuff. Their only issue is the way in which transports changed - the trukk can only drive 6" before they disembark. It takes some remixing of how to use them. Waaagh makes that 12" assault much more reliable, since you can roll both OR one of the two assault dice.

Stoffer wrote: Overwatch benefits Orks a great deal since it's basically an extra round of shooting at almost the same BS, you don't take fearless wounds which is one of the biggest changes across the board. Green tide armies are going to be super strong in 6th.

Snap shots (and overwatch are 50% as effective as normal ork shooting. That one point of BS means a lot. While ork snap shotting is better than MEQ snap shotting (due to volume of fire), it's not really something we can say is "almost as good".

That being said, I agree with you that green tide armies will be very strong in 6th.

I have 120 slugga boyz and 60 shoota boyz. They did well yesterday however, it now takes about one extra turn to get to combat with the slugga's due to fleet and wound allocation changes.

They are not as good as they used to be.

Kharrak wrote:Your normal anti-infantry is going to be much more powerful. Blasts and flamers, again when combined with lower cover save and removing casualties from the front, should keep them out of assault and keep them fighting to stay close to objectives.

Respectfully, if your opponent has units that can drop blasts, like manticores, would you not make them target priorities? A good green tide list IMHO will have 9 kannons and lootas/dakkajets. That should be enough to take care of your enemy priorities.

A green tide army is not an offensive army. Its counter-intuitive, but its not the best thing for orks to rush to the enemy lines and try to assault. Bolb over objectives, and nap a few KPs in KP missions.
Its better to just squat over objectives and keep getting shot at. A squad of 9 bolters at 24" will kill 3 orks out in the open per turn, or 18 points of boys. That's nothing. A dakka pread kills ~5 per turn.

I've also played 6 games of 6th edition thus far, and its not been that hard to find cover -- especially if you bring an aegis defense line and play on boards that one can expect to find at Nova. That lowers those numbers above even more.

The biggest problem green tide armies will face are the same problems they faced in 5th.
1) Movement. Its hard to get across the board to get 'linebreaker'
2) Lack of death star -- a squad of nob bikers will be #1 target priority for the enemy and absorb every bit of fire until their dead
3) Time of play -- It takes a long time to deploy and move 180+ models. Its hard to finish a game 2:15 when you have that -- which can cause problems at tourneys.