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Do you think Dark Vengeance is a good value purchase in your home country?

I think it is a ok price. It could have come with better dice and a new range finder would have been cool. Maby a painting guide ?

50 models for $110? For around round $2 a model, you can have the start of two new armies.

Or, like my local group likes to remind me, you can start one army, as Dark Angels are Chaos lite...

Would it really hurt GW to make a DV tape measure, or at least change the templates?

I somehow get the feeling DA players get a better value. They get alot of models plus that chaplain, and they seem like units one would want to use in battle.

Chaos kinda got screwed. GW obviously didn't want marine on marine, but come on, 6 marines, 20 cultists and a dread against 12 marines, 5 termies and bikes (which have the majority of the plasma, like they need it).

There is very little in the box I could use for my chaos army besides a general lift off the ground. The dread has a multi-melta, when was the last time someone brought a BR dread to the field? The chosen are few and tooled out, in other words, a point sink. The lord might be good...unless I get one in termie armor instead. Cultists are usable...but the box sets that will hit the stores in a few weeks probably have more options,

Little rulebook is nice and all, and the box really has a nice price with REALLY nice models, but I may consider a battleforce instead. 15 marines, 8 zerkers, 5 possessed and a rhino are more my taste

I can't see any complaints about it really - £65 and you get a shed load of models, £32.50 for each army if you split the cost with a friend.

It is fantastically good value for money. Just break it down individually, how much would it cost you? A hell of a lot more than £65. Sure you don't get the flexibility of being able to make your own poses but they're good models!

If someone wants to get into 40k, as a brand new player, I'd sell them this

Its very good value in my mind, two armies and complete rulesett = very goodvalue, not to mentioen the other stuff you get in the set.

Dark angels:
Company master (Space Marine Commander £14)
Librarian (any PA librarian £9.50)
tactical Squad (Tactical squad £23, but no PC)
Terminator Squad (Terminator squad £28
bike squad (Space marine bike £8x3)

And trade away the Chaos for more...

It would be good value if i lived in the UK, it's $130 + tax here in Canada, which means its $150 @.@.

While I love the chaos models, I have to agree Dark Angels got more bang for there buck in this situation.. I'm waiting to see if they release a box set of chosen, cultists, and the Hellbrute as the only model I really would want is Kranon if the others are available in plastic kits. Cultists look alright, and the hellbrute has a severe lack of detail in the back compared to every model in there.

I saw the battle-report in the WD. Hellbrute smashed everything and the Chosen smashed the Deathwing (with a bit of help from one of the surviving Cultists) and Kranon killed both of the Librarian and the Captain IIRC. It's really a win win for me, as I collect DA already and it would be nice to add another Librarian with my SH termie one and I was going to collect a Cultist army with my friend for tourny that happens once a month.
All in all, it could be reduced by $10 or so, or have some extra small goodies (e.g. some extra bits to snap onto your characters to make them stand out) but a fair price all in all.

For me its the $180 price tag that goes on it which gets me, too expensive. The multitude of models is amazing for the price but I just dont have that kind of money laying around in my budget to spend on.... To e-bay I go!

Marine_With_Heart wrote:
For me its the $180 price tag that goes on it which gets me, too expensive. The multitude of models is amazing for the price but I just dont have that kind of money laying around in my budget to spend on.... To e-bay I go!

wtf?! Seriously, that's like £115. Jesus, I don't think I'll ever complain about GW prices ever again...

As a long time player I find that this box set has no value for me what so ever. I don't play Chaos or Dark Angels and I have no desire to collect them. To me the box set is a fail.

Looking beyond it's worth to me, I can see it as a moderately good value to a beginning player or an interested veteran. Personally I would have liked to see it around a $75 to $80 price point.

For the price it's an excellent value. DA does make out better, however. They can plasma the Chaos stuff off the table. The Hellbrute should have come with an assault cannon or plasma cannon or something that could deal with everything else across the table. I'm waiting to see what the codex rules are for cultists before I commit fully to a DV purchase. I fully expect them to be meat shields, and as long as they're cheap ones I could be convinced to go splitsies a couple of times.

In Germany the box stands at 85€ and for that money one wouldn't get half as much if bought otherwise. Plus the minis look awesome and a rulebook in miniformat is always useful.

If only I liked Dark Angels…I would have picked it up without thought.

The models are spectacular, not for just a boxed set, but as stand-alones.

Now all they need to do is update the CSM codex and my WB force shall begin!

 quilava1 wrote:
Would it really hurt GW to make a DV tape measure, or at least change the templates?

Guess you missed the Munitorum tape measure and Templates, huh?

Model wise, your looking at paying £150+ for all the stuff on its own, then templates, book and a few dice thrown into that.
Granted you get a few spare parts by buying it seperate, but a few spare parts compared to some pretty unique looking models at around 1/3 of the cost?
Im sold.

Got 2 sets at the moment and im thinking about buying a 3rd set.
Cultists will be around £20 for 10 im guessing, so 2 box's of them and your only £20 off a full box, which you can buy, salvage what else you want and sell the rest for proffit.

The way the hellbrutes designed its easy to change the posing of head, arms and legs, so multiple of them isnt an issue. (want 3+ of them)
So, someone said about poor weapons on the hellbrute? you get an assault cannon termie in the box, its not hard to do a quick chop and swap (if its a legal weapon option)

All in all, im amazed by the box.
Better quality models than in BR, with things you will actually use.


Ebay has gone nuts straight away with this one.


Hellbrute and chosen - £12 each
Cultists - £11 for 10
Chaos lord - £5

Libby - £5
Tac squad - £11
Master - £5
Bikes - £12
Termies - £12
Chappy - £20

Prices will obviously change in the next couple of weeks, but its selling alot of stuff, and quickly.

I actually put down 'somewhat, it could be a bit cheaper'

Then it occurred to me, it actually is with the standard version. Although I'm hoping the extra £1.50 is just a VAT thing.

60 pounds for a starter game does seem fairly reasonable. Consider it's 18 years since second edition with its monopose 40 gretchins, 20 orks and 20 marines it's not that much of a difference.

Especially since the dreadnaught this go round comes with a whole extra dimension!

its only $25 more than the rulebook, so hell yeah it is

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 quilava1 wrote:
Would it really hurt GW to make a DV tape measure, or at least change the templates?

Guess you missed the Munitorum tape measure and Templates, huh?

I didn't miss it per say, I disliked the servo skull and decided to get the dice over the templates.

Point is, it is pretty pricy when I could get a battleforce for about the same price. Of course, if there was a special ruler/dice that came with it, I'm all for forking over the extra cash. But with 3 templates, 7 dice and those horrendous red pieces of trash, all of which I got in Black Reach mind you, I really am uncertain about the box. Yes the models are beautiful, but as I and another poster said earlier, not only do the DA hog the PA, but they hog the plasma. The box is incredibly unbalanced, DA will always win. Incredibly funny how that goes:

DA:
All models in PA or better
5 plasma weapons
2 PS, 4 PF, 1 PM
1 rending gun

Chaos:
Only 7 of the models in PA, nothing better
Only a single plasma weapon
a Multi-melta with no armor to melt. O boy, you killed a termie, you get PF'd to death in return
1 PS, 1 PA, 1 PF (Not including Hellbrute), 1 PM, 1 LC, Dread with PF

Pretty much, DA have ALL the armor and ALL the anti-armor. The diverse weapon array on the chosen back fires as only 2 guys can actually penetrate TEQs. Hellbrute is the anti-tank unit playing a list with no tanks. I think I'd rather have the termies.

Models are beautiful, and the rulebook is a must eventually, but I just think a battleforce would be more practical for starting my force at the given time.

I thought it was such good value I bought two copies! Great additions to my DA army and plenty of chaos for starting a new army or adding to my word bearers!

This is my next planned "big purchase". As much as I want the DA models, between AoBR and this I'll have a modest Ork/Chaos ally force to use as a change of pace army.

 quilava1 wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 quilava1 wrote:
Would it really hurt GW to make a DV tape measure, or at least change the templates?

Guess you missed the Munitorum tape measure and Templates, huh?

I didn't miss it per say, I disliked the servo skull and decided to get the dice over the templates.


Models are beautiful, and the rulebook is a must eventually, but I just think a battleforce would be more practical for starting my force at the given time.

Those tools, like the dice, wrre meant to coincide with the release of the new set, sooo....

And remember that for a beginning player, a battleforce is a good value, but sometimes useless. Dark Angels Ravenwing is a hell of a deal, but it is a ~400 unit that requires another $50 mini to be used. Dark Vengeance provides two beginners with two armies to acclimatize themselves to a new game.

As always with GW, it is good value when compared against what the box components would cost if one were to buy them individually from GW but this fails to take into account the fact that the individual components are already wildly expensive. So you end up getting a box that is still expensive but looks good value when the RRP is totted up.

Ultimately, you are buying for £70, a few lumps of plastic that cost pence to manufacture - I'm not sure the word 'value' can really apply in this case, or perhaps in any case when it comes to a relatively expensive hobby like wargaming.

 filbert wrote:
As always with GW, it is good value when compared against what the box components would cost if one were to buy them individually from GW but this fails to take into account the fact that the individual components are already wildly expensive. So you end up getting a box that is still expensive but looks good value when the RRP is totted up.

Ultimately, you are buying for £70, a few lumps of plastic that cost pence to manufacture - I'm not sure the word 'value' can really apply in this case, or perhaps in any case when it comes to a relatively expensive hobby like wargaming.

You can apply that logic to anything though, Carling costs about 2 or 3p per pint to make, and depending where you live, is about £3 a pint to buy?

For a starting force, for a beginner who wants to get playing the game - it is good value, they've put the box set price up £2.50 compared to Black Reach, or the Warhammer game, and considering the prices they've increased the Battleforces, this is alright by GW standards.

 stubacca wrote:


For a starting force, for a beginner who wants to get playing the game - it is good value, they've put the box set price up £2.50 compared to Black Reach, or the Warhammer game, and considering the prices they've increased the Battleforces, this is alright by GW standards.

The price has increased £2.50 from the last price rise on the AOBR set. This is a fairly important distinction to make; when it came out, AOBR was £40 or £45 IIRC and that was only, what, 4 years ago?

Ultimately, anyone in the wargaming hobby makes a value judgement about what constitutes good value to them; the point I ma trying to make is that if you add up the RRP of all the bits in the box, then yes, it is good value but it becomes less good value (if that makes grammatical sense!) if you are of the opinion or come to the conclusion that the RRP of the individual bits is already over-inflated to begin with.

Personally speaking, I think the box set is rapidly approaching the boundary of being/appearing to be too expensive for a newcomer and ultimately, that is the core audience for this box set. There is already significant sticker shock when one walks into a GW; the price of this box set may well convince people not to start GW games. Bear in mind, newcomers are unlikely to stop and add up the individual cost of bits included in the box - they are just going to take a look at the price and think it is quite a hefty chunk of change to lay down for a beginner set. But as always, time will tell.

All I can say is, if I were starting GW games now as a total newcomer, I would be turned off and wouldn't buy GW stuff. Its only because I am fairly invested in GW games that I continue to play now - and I don't buy anything from them any more as it is.

 filbert wrote:

 stubacca wrote:


For a starting force, for a beginner who wants to get playing the game - it is good value, they've put the box set price up £2.50 compared to Black Reach, or the Warhammer game, and considering the prices they've increased the Battleforces, this is alright by GW standards.

All I can say is, if I were starting GW games now as a total newcomer, I would be turned off and wouldn't buy GW stuff. Its only because I am fairly invested in GW games that I continue to play now - and I don't buy anything from them any more as it is.

I think it depends where they go, if they go to a GW store they will get the sales pitch and compare the prices to regular models. I know, I've only been into the hobby for a little over a year, and I got the spiel about buying a Battleforce because it's a little better value for money compared to buying the models individually, which is true.

I totally agree with you that compared to even 2010 the prices for stuff are more than ridiculous, especially with the VAT increase that year and their yearly price increase, but I don't think that £65 is an off-putting price for two armies, and all the basics you'll need - especially only being a few months before Christmas...

The price fits, in my opinion. The fact that the Limited Edition favours the DA's can bug some players, but hey, it's only added value since in a few months that chaplain will sell for a lot.

All in all though, it's ok.

it should have been a LE sorcerer. DA has too much already, 3 HQs is too much

Also, the chaos miniatures look absolutely amazing.