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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/409030043/warmachine-tactics?ref=card

A true to tabletop version of warmachines. For 15 years, GW has cried and bemoaned that an online true to tabletop version of their game would split their fanbase, and be the end of them. But here, a much smaller company dosent seem worried that it will kill their tabletop game. In fact, it seems as they are betting this will be a huge boon for them.

GW could have true to tabletop versions of both of their games, they don't out of misplaced paranoia. I guess on the bright side, if this game becomes a huge success, GW will likely follow suit. Imagine being able to sit down and get a game in anytime you want, without having to rely on a friend being available to play, or having to drive 30+ minutes and hope there is someone looking for the same thing at the same time.

Because to Games Workshop video games are a passing fad, the internet is a scary place that is out to steal their money and electronic media works the same as print. They have weird views on modern society.

Most people who play 40k i know dont play the 40k games (including me), but all the people i know that play DoW didnt even know GW existed and have no interest in it. I havent seen it generate any interest in the hobby from new people. I dont think they need to make a game because it wont change anything really. Just like all video games it will get old quickly and be replaced by another new one.

its actually true they turned down "world of warhammer" that became world of warcraft because they did not believe in it.

It comes down to "why would I spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on models that I have to paint and care for if I can just buy this 60 dollar video game with access to all the armies, more opponents to play, and more types of tables to play on?"

Offering a video game that perfectly recreates the experience of their tabletop game would cost them hundreds of dollars per customer that buys that video game, because there would be no reason for them to buy those miniatures other than for painting.

There are plenty of ways to counter that loss, of course. in-game advertising, microtransactions, monthly fees, expansions, streamed online tournaments, etc.

But it would subtract a HUGE amount from the main purpose of their company. Creating models. It would effectively turn them into an e-sports company rather than a modeling company. That is an all-in move that wouldn't guarantee their survival as a company, which from a business perspective is a completely unnecessary risk.

They release games like the dawn of war series to tap into the video gaming community both for extra income from the game sales, and extra income from the interest those games generate for their tabletop games.

From a consumer point of view, it REALLY sucks for us. Having a digital version of the tabletop game would help the more isolated players play more often, play more opponents, and save us a lot of gas money from constantly driving to the nearest town or city to play.

As much as I would absolutely love to see a fantasy or 40k tabletop video game, I completely understand GW's decision to avoid it.

Video games are there for people that have no interest in the hobby, such as assembling, converting, painting, rolling a dice, build and paint terrain, etc. GW being a hobby based company, have no interest in video games. I would however like them making a movie, TV series to help promote their sci-fi universe.

Bojazz wrote:
It comes down to "why would I spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on models that I have to paint and care for if I can just buy this 60 dollar video game with access to all the armies, more opponents to play, and more types of tables to play on?"

Offering a video game that perfectly recreates the experience of their tabletop game would cost them hundreds of dollars per customer that buys that video game, because there would be no reason for them to buy those miniatures other than for painting.

There are plenty of ways to counter that loss, of course. in-game advertising, microtransactions, monthly fees, expansions, streamed online tournaments, etc.

But it would subtract a HUGE amount from the main purpose of their company. Creating models. It would effectively turn them into an e-sports company rather than a modeling company. That is an all-in move that wouldn't guarantee their survival as a company, which from a business perspective is a completely unnecessary risk.

They release games like the dawn of war series to tap into the video gaming community both for extra income from the game sales, and extra income from the interest those games generate for their tabletop games.

From a consumer point of view, it REALLY sucks for us. Having a digital version of the tabletop game would help the more isolated players play more often, play more opponents, and save us a lot of gas money from constantly driving to the nearest town or city to play.

As much as I would absolutely love to see a fantasy or 40k tabletop video game, I completely understand GW's decision to avoid it.

Unless they do something smart, like charge a monthly fee to play online games, grant access to any army and paint scheme you could want for this fee, and be entered into a free tourney once a month, additional tournaments would cost you money. The prizes? Real GW models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Big Mac wrote:
Video games are there for people that have no interest in the hobby, such as assembling, converting, painting, rolling a dice, build and paint terrain, etc. GW being a hobby based company, have no interest in video games. I would however like them making a movie, TV series to help promote their sci-fi universe.

Obviously not, since that's a pretty blanket statement, and I enjoy both. The ONLY difference for me is I would be able to get a game in at MY convenience, not a local hobbystores schedule, or wait until the stars align to get a group together to play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Most people who play 40k i know dont play the 40k games (including me), but all the people i know that play DoW didnt even know GW existed and have no interest in it. I havent seen it generate any interest in the hobby from new people. I dont think they need to make a game because it wont change anything really. Just like all video games it will get old quickly and be replaced by another new one.

Dawn of war used the same models and fluff, that is it. There game wasent remotely close to the tabletop, in strategy or playability. It was build the fastest and win by dominating points for more resources, not manage resources to build a finite army and use turn based combat to determine the winner. Privateer press is making a true to tabletop, which will have a built in fanbase, and if it becomes a hit, im sure will get them more tabletop fans as well, probably curious GW customers who haven't dipped their feet in yet. I know if its good, its going to convert me. And I have played GW games for 20 years, but the things they have done recently, op flyers, stupid powerful titans, and av 15 buildings have quickly drained my interest in continuing.

 Orock wrote:

Unless they do something smart, like charge a monthly fee to play online games, grant access to any army and paint scheme you could want for this fee, and be entered into a free tourney once a month, additional tournaments would cost you money. The prizes? Real GW models.

If you'll notice, I mentioned almost all of this in my above post.

There are plenty of ways to counter that loss, of course. in-game advertising, microtransactions, monthly fees, expansions, streamed online tournaments, etc.

I think GW is missing some exposure. The video games may open up video gamers to modeling.

As a gamer (table top and video), I buy up the 40k releases for PC or console. I find it a good, refreshing outlet for my 40k needs when I can't tabletop game or tire of modeling.

Example, DoW for PC and Space Marine on PS3.

Just recently I picked up Space Hulk for PC. It's just like the board game, but if Games Workshop would re-release Space Hulk again, I'd buy it in a second...I'm not paying the inflated prices for OOP items on ebay lol.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Most people who play 40k i know dont play the 40k games (including me), but all the people i know that play DoW didnt even know GW existed and have no interest in it. I havent seen it generate any interest in the hobby from new people. I dont think they need to make a game because it wont change anything really. Just like all video games it will get old quickly and be replaced by another new one.

Dawn of war used the same models and fluff, that is it. There game wasent remotely close to the tabletop, in strategy or playability. It was build the fastest and win by dominating points for more resources, not manage resources to build a finite army and use turn based combat to determine the winner. Privateer press is making a true to tabletop, which will have a built in fanbase, and if it becomes a hit, im sure will get them more tabletop fans as well, probably curious GW customers who haven't dipped their feet in yet. I know if its good, its going to convert me. And I have played GW games for 20 years, but the things they have done recently, op flyers, stupid powerful titans, and av 15 buildings have quickly drained my interest in continuing.

In a computer game those issues can only be changed by modding. On the table top they can be changed just buy feeling like it. But if they where to do what you asked they would have to update a lot to keep up with the trends and more importantly will it be a direct copy like risk for example (which usually has terrible AI) or will it have flash animations etc? So many options with so much room for failure. I wouldnt risk it. But yet again i dont want it.

The dawn of war games are actually what got me and a bunch of my friends into the hobby.

I play 40k for the models.

GW themselves have said in their investors' portfolio that they are a company that deals in selling miniatures for profit. It's perfectly fine that they don't "get with the times" by making a digital version of 40k.

A much better wish would be for GW to "get with the times" regarding Internet shopping carts, International trade embargos, not gouging Australia, and learning how to embrace the Internet and digital technology.

But a better, official version of Vassal is not something I care much about nor is it something GW has any desire or obligation to provide for you.

One other thing to consider is that GW already has Eternal Crusade lined up, and the Dawn of War series. Warmachine does not have a video game series, nor do they have as large a customer base as GW despite being pretty much the second biggest name in the non-historical wargaming industry. So just think of this as Warmachine's attempt to get more players and break into the video game crowd, not as "WHY DOESN'T GW DO THIS?!" Because they already did with DoW.

While not absolutely true to tabletop, there was always Chaos Gate for 40K and Final Liberation for Epic 40K. It's just that many GW gamers were barely in grade school, or sometimes even were not out of diapers when those came out, so probably have never played them.

I don't see the need. Yes, I'd LOVE that video game but for me, Video games and table top are two very separate hobbies. I play Down of War because I like strategy games of all kind and I'd play the heck out of a true to table version, yes I would, but its not necessary. To create a game that will only last a few years would take too much time and resources away from GW. Now if a software company wanted to make that, sure, let them please.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
I play 40k for the models.

GW themselves have said in their investors' portfolio that they are a company that deals in selling miniatures for profit. It's perfectly fine that they don't "get with the times" by making a digital version of 40k.

A much better wish would be for GW to "get with the times" regarding Internet shopping carts, International trade embargos, not gouging Australia, and learning how to embrace the Internet and digital technology.

But a better, official version of Vassal is not something I care much about nor is it something GW has any desire or obligation to provide for you.

One other thing to consider is that GW already has Eternal Crusade lined up, and the Dawn of War series. Warmachine does not have a video game series, nor do they have as large a customer base as GW despite being pretty much the second biggest name in the non-historical wargaming industry. So just think of this as Warmachine's attempt to get more players and break into the video game crowd, not as "WHY DOESN'T GW DO THIS?!" Because they already did with DoW.

Well good for GW, hope that obstinently sticking to one form for their IP pays off, and that in 10 years time when 3d printing destroys them, they have plenty of money saved up in their 401k plans.

 Orock wrote:
But here, a much smaller company dosent seem worried that it will kill their tabletop game. In fact, it seems as they are betting this will be a huge boon for them.

That doesn't mean that GW are wrong... at least, not yet.

 Orock wrote:
[
Well good for GW, hope that obstinently sticking to one form for their IP pays off, and that in 10 years time when 3d printing destroys them, they have plenty of money saved up in their 401k plans.

Somebody's bitter...

On another subject that game looks pretty interesting. Apparently they took whatever engine the new XCOM uses and made a Warmachine skin for it. Could be something I end up acquiring if they ever put Cyriss in. Assuming it ever gets off the ground and actually stays in business after 90% of the player base pirates it (I've heard the "90% of video game users are playing pirated copies" number a couple of times from completely different sources and related to completely different games so I'll believe it until proven otherwise).

Why make a video game when you can have other people pay you to create a video game?

 mk2 wrote:
its actually true they turned down "world of warhammer" that became world of warcraft because they did not believe in it.

You got a source for that?

Cause the big Warhammer MMO that came after WoW lasted about 5 minutes as a popular revenue generating game.

 dementedwombat wrote:

 Orock wrote:
[
Well good for GW, hope that obstinently sticking to one form for their IP pays off, and that in 10 years time when 3d printing destroys them, they have plenty of money saved up in their 401k plans.

Somebody's bitter...

On another subject that game looks pretty interesting. Apparently they took whatever engine the new XCOM uses and made a Warmachine skin for it. Could be something I end up acquiring if they ever put Cyriss in. Assuming it ever gets off the ground and actually stays in business after 90% of the player base pirates it (I've heard the "90% of video game users are playing pirated copies" number a couple of times from completely different sources and related to completely different games so I'll believe it until proven otherwise).

Its much harder to pirate and play a game online, which I would imagine would be the big draw, though some will pirate for the single player campaign.

And if you look at the stretch goals, I believe they have every warmachine faction planned now.

Im sorry, but isnt there a big slew of video games with the warhammer IP?
Ad how is this "Them not catching up with the times" They are making strides. They arent the best, but they are trying

Ok, one last thing. The game in question isn't actually a true tabletop representation of the board game. Was just looking up some more info on it.

This would be about equivalent of GW releasing a Necromunda game based on the XCOM engine (which would be awesome for sure, but not really a "virtual tabletop")

 Maddermax wrote:
It's a grid based tactical game, in the vein of X-Com and similar games. It will have quite a few features in common (feats, spells and focus seem reasonably similar), but a lot will be different (no units, only solos, jacks will have normal HP not a damage grid, models will be upgradeable with skill points RPG style). So it's really not going to be a direct copy of the game at all, it'll be it's own thing and stand on it's own merits.

That said, I'm hoping it'll scratch my WM itch when it comes out, because I don't get to play nearly as much as I'd like to.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Ok, one last thing. The game in question isn't actually a true tabletop representation of the board game. Was just looking up some more info on it.

This would be about equivalent of GW releasing a Necromunda game based on the XCOM engine (which would be awesome for sure, but not really a "virtual tabletop")

 Maddermax wrote:
It's a grid based tactical game, in the vein of X-Com and similar games. It will have quite a few features in common (feats, spells and focus seem reasonably similar), but a lot will be different (no units, only solos, jacks will have normal HP not a damage grid, models will be upgradeable with skill points RPG style). So it's really not going to be a direct copy of the game at all, it'll be it's own thing and stand on it's own merits.

That said, I'm hoping it'll scratch my WM itch when it comes out, because I don't get to play nearly as much as I'd like to.

well that is quite a bit different, but I agree with you, gorkamorka, mordheim, and necromunda all deserve the tabletop to game translation that space hulk and bloodbowl have got.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Most people who play 40k i know dont play the 40k games (including me), but all the people i know that play DoW didnt even know GW existed and have no interest in it. I havent seen it generate any interest in the hobby from new people. I dont think they need to make a game because it wont change anything really. Just like all video games it will get old quickly and be replaced by another new one.

That's because of GW's bizarre failure to turn the 40k games into a real marketing effort. Sure, it says "Games Workshop" down at the bottom, but where's the "you played it on your PC, now play it on your table" marketing effort to convert those video game customers into tabletop customers? Instead GW is content to just give out the license and passively collect the extra income.

Bojazz wrote:
Offering a video game that perfectly recreates the experience of their tabletop game would cost them hundreds of dollars per customer that buys that video game, because there would be no reason for them to buy those miniatures other than for painting.

But even if the rules for the games are the same it's still not even close to the same experience. The rules of GW's games are the worst part of the hobby, the real reason to play is the awesome models. And it doesn't matter how nice the graphics are, a video game isn't going to duplicate that experience any time in the foreseeable future.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Most people who play 40k i know dont play the 40k games (including me), but all the people i know that play DoW didnt even know GW existed and have no interest in it. I havent seen it generate any interest in the hobby from new people. I dont think they need to make a game because it wont change anything really. Just like all video games it will get old quickly and be replaced by another new one.

Dawn of war used the same models and fluff, that is it. There game wasent remotely close to the tabletop, in strategy or playability. It was build the fastest and win by dominating points for more resources, not manage resources to build a finite army and use turn based combat to determine the winner. Privateer press is making a true to tabletop, which will have a built in fanbase, and if it becomes a hit, im sure will get them more tabletop fans as well, probably curious GW customers who haven't dipped their feet in yet. I know if its good, its going to convert me. And I have played GW games for 20 years, but the things they have done recently, op flyers, stupid powerful titans, and av 15 buildings have quickly drained my interest in continuing.

In a computer game those issues can only be changed by modding. On the table top they can be changed just buy feeling like it. But if they where to do what you asked they would have to update a lot to keep up with the trends and more importantly will it be a direct copy like risk for example (which usually has terrible AI) or will it have flash animations etc? So many options with so much room for failure. I wouldnt risk it. But yet again i dont want it.

This. The DOW games are OK and severely missing critical units in both installments (like the strange lack of Chaos Terminators). I always end up downloading what are practically total conversion mods with the amount of units they add.

I'd by it in a heart beat. GW isn't getting another dime of my money as I just cant justify the cost of the figures anymore.

I now only buy figures to paint for fun, and GW has pretty much run out of must haves for me. However, if I can keep playing with the fanbase, that actually has value to me.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Most people who play 40k i know dont play the 40k games (including me), but all the people i know that play DoW didnt even know GW existed and have no interest in it. I havent seen it generate any interest in the hobby from new people. I dont think they need to make a game because it wont change anything really. Just like all video games it will get old quickly and be replaced by another new one.

DoW 2 is what got me to finally play 40k after being on the fence for a decade.

Specifically it was the Orks voices. Absolutely 10/10 A+ fantastic

But even if the rules for the games are the same it's still not even close to the same experience. The rules of GW's games are the worst part of the hobby, the real reason to play is the awesome models. And it doesn't matter how nice the graphics are, a video game isn't going to duplicate that experience any time in the foreseeable future.

What the game lacks in sheer model quality and a lot of other, model-based aspects of the hobby, it can make up for it with an increased immersion due to the sounds, voices, explosions etc. Not a bad trade off IMO

A direct port of the game to computer would be difficult from an effective UI standpoint. Actually getting people to play it? Even more difficult.

Even if you DO code all the rules in, and debug it, and keep up...How much of a pain is it to play? To truly replicate, you have to be able to move each unit separately so you can string out a unit, or keep it in a circle, or have them truly clumped instead of the max coherence distances... And that's one aspect. It'd be such a pain to play that it would actually probably not do well. I know we'd all love one, but I actually don't think a direct port of the TT game would do well, especially for the amount of time and money that would need to go into creating it. It certainly would be to complex to do well with the microtransaction users.

As for other games, I'd argue they have merit. They do bring awareness, and bring people in. Just in a different way.

 troa wrote:
A direct port of the game to computer would be difficult from an effective UI standpoint. Actually getting people to play it? Even more difficult.

Even if you DO code all the rules in, and debug it, and keep up...How much of a pain is it to play? To truly replicate, you have to be able to move each unit separately so you can string out a unit, or keep it in a circle, or have them truly clumped instead of the max coherence distances... And that's one aspect. It'd be such a pain to play that it would actually probably not do well. I know we'd all love one, but I actually don't think a direct port of the TT game would do well, especially for the amount of time and money that would need to go into creating it. It certainly would be to complex to do well with the microtransaction users.

As for other games, I'd argue they have merit. They do bring awareness, and bring people in. Just in a different way.

the fact that some guys in a basement can make a free version on vassal which is pretty dang close already means your "difficult" argument is out the window. The only thing keeping the game from being possible is a signature on a dotted line by GW's guys in charge.

 insaniak wrote:

 Orock wrote:
But here, a much smaller company dosent seem worried that it will kill their tabletop game. In fact, it seems as they are betting this will be a huge boon for them.

That doesn't mean that GW are wrong... at least, not yet.

Didn't they miss the boat when Blizzard came to them looking to build a games franchise based on their IP? Blizzard Entertainment has a huge market cap right now, a lot larger than GW.