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Tau are said to be "very strong" in shooting, and very limited in close combat. So, why do the shas'la, shas'ui, shas'vre, and some others have BS 3? Tau are strong in shooting, so they should have BS 4. Weapon Skill is supposed to be sucky, though, so let it be sucky! The WS of 3 in most models, therefore, should be WS 2. The Kroot are their source of close combat with WS 4, so let it be! The space marines all have BS 4 for heaven's sakes! And, don't they count as a jack of all trades, not a master of shooting like the tau are? So, those are my reasons for tau having BS 4 and WS 2.

Tau have BS 3 to fit the fluff. Tau are actually a "fish like" species, so they are nearsighted. They use advanced optical technology to make up for this shortcoming. SM have BS 4 because they have ocular implants giving them far better eyesight than Tau.

*edit- From a game mechanic perspective, if Tau had BS 4, they're shooting would be even more OP.

I think their "strength" in shooting is the weapons they use, not the actual being holding the weapon.

I don't see what's wrong with hitting on a 4+ to be honest, I do think crisis suits could possibly do with the old BS upgrade back.

Where are you getting that anything outside the hq section that is a tau has ws3

Mark lighters.

Also, Tau are good at shooting. BS3 is compitent, standard shooting. BS 4 is superhuman skill. Above is the realm of master marksman.

Tau already have Marklighters.

Having BS4 would push Tau to be really OPed.

Having a squad of FW with rapid fire and an Ethereal AND being BS4 would be completely unfair.

I play TAU and it would suck if BS4 was standard I think.

If Tau had BS 4 standard, they'd need only about half the markerlights they currently use, allowing them to field more guns, increasing their firepower far more than the additional 1/6th of a chance to hit.

I think BS3 helps balance Tau out, especially with markerlights. For 9 pts a model you get a str 5 ap 5 rapid fire weapon that hits on 4s. Best troop gun in the game. If it was 3+, FW would only need one markerlight to be hitting on twos.

Markerlights are supposed to be used in conjunction to pretty much focus fire whatever you want. 2 Markerlights, and you have 30 inch, S5 guns hitting on 2s. They don't need higher BS.

How are tau supposed to be better shots than trained guardsmen. They just have advanced weaponry and MUCH lower numbers so that advanced weaponry production rate is just enough to supply everyone. Their pure shooting skill is not supposed to be as good as marine's or veteran guardsman's.

Would it be safe to say that giving Tau markerlights and BS 4 would make the situation complete "BS"? /drumroll



Thank you. Thank you.

lliu wrote:
Tau are said to be "very strong" in shooting, and very limited in close combat. So, why do the shas'la, shas'ui, shas'vre, and some others have BS 3? Tau are strong in shooting, so they should have BS 4. Weapon Skill is supposed to be sucky, though, so let it be sucky! The WS of 3 in most models, therefore, should be WS 2. The Kroot are their source of close combat with WS 4, so let it be! The space marines all have BS 4 for heaven's sakes! And, don't they count as a jack of all trades, not a master of shooting like the tau are? So, those are my reasons for tau having BS 4 and WS 2.

This question comes around every once in a while since Tau were released and the above posters have it correct.

From a fluff perspective, Guardsmen are theoretically equivalent to modern US/NATO trained troops (probably better) and they are considered t be decently-trained, good quality rifle marksmen. Veterans are the snipers/crack-shots of the unit and the cream of the crop. Kasrkin/Stormtoopers train all their life and are considered expert shots in all aspects of firearms training. Past that, you have the truly superhuman abilities of the Space marines who, we are lead to believe, calculate trajectories and ballistics with the same ease as you or I might catch or throw a ball. Beyond that is the realm of the uncanny shooter who can make shots through visors, the scopes of other sniper's rifles, etc. on a consistent basis. The Tau are biologically deficient in their vision thanks to their evolutionary roots compared to humans, so their non-assisted ability is probably less than the average human (think "very nearsighted and need glasses"). They correct this with all sorts of technology (helmets, visors, computer assisted aim, etc.) but that just takes the average Tau from "bad eyesight" to "human equivalent". Add marksmanship training and you get a Firewarrior who can probably shoot better than the average Guardsman.

This being said, the problem with the 40k ruleset is that it's D6 based and so the Ballistic Skill scale is heavily weighted in the 2-5 area. Comparatively, if an Ork was a shooting skill of 1, a non-equipped (e.g.helmetless) Tau would be 2, a Guardsman 3, a fully equipped Firewarrior 4, a Veteran Guardsman 5, a Stormtrooper 6, a Space Marine 7, a Veteran Space Marine 8, and so on and so forth. Unfortunately this would create balance issues so ballistic skill is 'normalized' into a range that makes it both easier to calculate and easier to balance from a game perspective. Some feel it's laziness on the part of the designers, but to fully correct the issue you'd probably have to go to a D8 or D10 system (rather than D6) which would be more expensive and possibly more complicated than many players would like.

From a gameplay perspective, Tau already have systems in place to correct their "fish eye" ballistic ability. Markerlights (as people have already mentioned) are amazingly flexible and powerful. I would trade my BS4 Veterans for the ability to take a markerlight squad in a heartbeat! Their basic troops also have the most powerful weapon of any basic unit in the game (S5 AP5 is a 'heavy' weapon for Imperial Guard... and it's a light rifle for the Tau) so it's actually quite well balanced... if not weighted in favour of the Tau.

Hope that helps give a little insight on how/why the little, blue, space-communists aren't the crack-shots you were hoping they'd be! Enjoy putting S10 AP1 holes in my Leman Russes, regardless!

DoW

It would make sense for the Shas'vre to have BS 4 though, to put a bridge between the BS 3 of the lower ranks and the BS 5 of the HQs. But other than that, the rank and file of the Tau should be no better marksmen than the rank and file of the Guard without Markerlight support.

Something I will point out, against most targets, a BS 3 Tau shooting a Strength 5 Pulse Rifle has equal or better chances of scoring a wound as a BS 4 Marine shooting a Strength 4 Boltgun. So the Tau are better at shooting model for model than Guardsmen as a base.

If Tau become BS 4, then they need to make my Hive Guard BS 4 again.

I'd support BS4 standard and cut down the amount of Markerlight you can do for a given unit's ranged attacks. One counter, either reduces cover save or improves BS to 5 for that shot, say.

Agree and disagree. Tau basic troops should be BS 3 because they're well-trained professional soldiers but not exceptional in skill or training. Remember that fire warriors are just the first step in a Tau soldier's career, the best of them are transferred to other roles once they have gained the necessary experience. And also remember that, while IG meatshields are BS 3, so are more "elite" guardsmen like Elysian drop troops or vehicle crews. A game with more fine detail than 40k's D6-with-half-the-values-ignored system might break BS 3 into different levels, but under the current system BS 3 is appropriate.

Tau elites, on the other hand, should be BS 4. Crisis suits are the equivalent of IG veterans, experienced soldiers that have survived their trial by fire and been granted the best equipment the Tau can provide. It's absolutely stupid that they're stuck at the same BS 3 as the basic troops, while elite guardsmen/storm troopers/etc get BS 4.

 Random Dude wrote:
Tau have BS 3 to fit the fluff. Tau are actually a "fish like" species, so they are nearsighted. They use advanced optical technology to make up for this shortcoming.

This is stupid fluff, and only mentioned in an in-universe Imperial source (IIRC), not any sources written from a neutral or Tau perspective. It directly contradicts the evolution of the Tau fire caste, as they were originally pre-technology warriors and hunters on land. And despite not having all the fancy optical sensors and other support they were still good at their job, something that would not be true if they had vision problems.

Also, Tau are NOT fish. The fish-like names given to Tau vehicles and equipment are Imperial designations, much like the NATO names given to Soviet equipment. They have absolutely nothing to do with Tau evolution or culture.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Markerlights are supposed to be used in conjunction to pretty much focus fire whatever you want. 2 Markerlights, and you have 30 inch, S5 guns hitting on 2s. They don't need higher BS.

The problem with this is it turns the codex into Codex: Magic Laser Pointers instead of Codex: Tau. Instead of giving Tau poor stats and using markerlight spam to make up for it they should have good stats and treat markerlights as a nice bonus for the most important shots.

My problem with this idea is that trading a WS for a BS is an unfair jump in unit effectiveness. Because the melee chart is such crap and WS is largely irrelevant in this game the difference between WS 2 and WS 3 is almost no existant, it means that things like Guard will be hitting you on 3's in that ohh so fearsome guard CC units! On the other hand the difference between BS 3 and BS 4 is a 16% increase in combat effectiveness, so yeah that is a big jump for a unit especially if it isn't going to be paired with a point increase.

Tau have never been portrayed as being good shots. They're basically equivalent to normal humans in every way, including reflexes and hand-eye coordination. Thus, BS3.

I can't remember where, but I recall that the Tau are descended from ruminants, and as such, have poorer reflexes and depth perception when compared to humans (this would make sense as T'au is described as being mostly arid and savanna like). I think they also have shorter lifespans (around 40 years), and can perceive a slightly larger spectrum of light.

Anyhow, to me it always seemed that this is represented by their WS and I being 2, and that their BS is only brought up to 3 by all their fancy optics and wargear.

 DogOfWar wrote:

lliu wrote:
Tau are said to be "very strong" in shooting, and very limited in close combat. So, why do the shas'la, shas'ui, shas'vre, and some others have BS 3? Tau are strong in shooting, so they should have BS 4. Weapon Skill is supposed to be sucky, though, so let it be sucky! The WS of 3 in most models, therefore, should be WS 2. The Kroot are their source of close combat with WS 4, so let it be! The space marines all have BS 4 for heaven's sakes! And, don't they count as a jack of all trades, not a master of shooting like the tau are? So, those are my reasons for tau having BS 4 and WS 2.

This question comes around every once in a while since Tau were released and the above posters have it correct.

From a fluff perspective, Guardsmen are theoretically equivalent to modern US/NATO trained troops (probably better) and they are considered t be decently-trained, good quality rifle marksmen. Veterans are the snipers/crack-shots of the unit and the cream of the crop. Kasrkin/Stormtoopers train all their life and are considered expert shots in all aspects of firearms training. Past that, you have the truly superhuman abilities of the Space marines who, we are lead to believe, calculate trajectories and ballistics with the same ease as you or I might catch or throw a ball. Beyond that is the realm of the uncanny shooter who can make shots through visors, the scopes of other sniper's rifles, etc. on a consistent basis. The Tau are biologically deficient in their vision thanks to their evolutionary roots compared to humans, so their non-assisted ability is probably less than the average human (think "very nearsighted and need glasses"). They correct this with all sorts of technology (helmets, visors, computer assisted aim, etc.) but that just takes the average Tau from "bad eyesight" to "human equivalent". Add marksmanship training and you get a Firewarrior who can probably shoot better than the average Guardsman.

This being said, the problem with the 40k ruleset is that it's D6 based and so the Ballistic Skill scale is heavily weighted in the 2-5 area. Comparatively, if an Ork was a shooting skill of 1, a non-equipped (e.g.helmetless) Tau would be 2, a Guardsman 3, a fully equipped Firewarrior 4, a Veteran Guardsman 5, a Stormtrooper 6, a Space Marine 7, a Veteran Space Marine 8, and so on and so forth. Unfortunately this would create balance issues so ballistic skill is 'normalized' into a range that makes it both easier to calculate and easier to balance from a game perspective. Some feel it's laziness on the part of the designers, but to fully correct the issue you'd probably have to go to a D8 or D10 system (rather than D6) which would be more expensive and possibly more complicated than many players would like.

From a gameplay perspective, Tau already have systems in place to correct their "fish eye" ballistic ability. Markerlights (as people have already mentioned) are amazingly flexible and powerful. I would trade my BS4 Veterans for the ability to take a markerlight squad in a heartbeat! Their basic troops also have the most powerful weapon of any basic unit in the game (S5 AP5 is a 'heavy' weapon for Imperial Guard... and it's a light rifle for the Tau) so it's actually quite well balanced... if not weighted in favour of the Tau.

Hope that helps give a little insight on how/why the little, blue, space-communists aren't the crack-shots you were hoping they'd be! Enjoy putting S10 AP1 holes in my Leman Russes, regardless!

DoW

So the fire warrior in the tau fire warrior team set has BS2?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'd support BS4 standard and cut down the amount of Markerlight you can do for a given unit's ranged attacks. One counter, either reduces cover save or improves BS to 5 for that shot, say.

I'd say marker lights should increase range.

Tau only live 40 years or so. They don't have time to train effectively as Marines or even grizzled IG Vets do.
Tau have poor depth perception and ae near sighted so rely on technology to fill in the gaps, unlike Marines who have enhanced eyesight AND technological targeting arrays, or even the regular eyesight of humans.
Tau's superior firepower comes from the range and strength of the ordnance over the Imperium's standard weaponry. Ok, compared to a bolter its not much (+6" range and +1 strength) but compared to a Lasgun its fantastic (+6" range, +2 Strength and AP5)

 Deadshot wrote:
Tau only live 40 years or so. They don't have time to train effectively as Marines or even grizzled IG Vets do.
Tau have poor depth perception and ae near sighted so rely on technology to fill in the gaps, unlike Marines who have enhanced eyesight AND technological targeting arrays, or even the regular eyesight of humans.
Tau's superior firepower comes from the range and strength of the ordnance over the Imperium's standard weaponry. Ok, compared to a bolter its not much (+6" range and +1 strength) but compared to a Lasgun its fantastic (+6" range, +2 Strength and AP5)

Oh, right, but it says the vision of a tau descends more into ultra-violet and infra-red than a human's eyesight, and BS 3 also means fire warriors shoot like Cultists.

Cultists train hard for the day they can rise up :p

Tau aren't fishlike though, but they are nearsighted.

The worst part of Tau eye fluff is the bit that says they lack depth perception because they don't have contracting irises. That's not what irises do, sugar.

I thought Tau where farsighted?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Cultists train hard for the day they can rise up :p

Tau aren't fishlike though, but they are nearsighted.

The worst part of Tau eye fluff is the bit that says they lack depth perception because they don't have contracting irises. That's not what irises do, sugar.

Well, non-contracting irises mean that they don't see well in bright light, right? However, they should have night vision because of the advanced gear they use.

Non-contracting irises means they don't adjust to different light levels well, meaning that they're only good in the specific environment they evolved to live in. Which is a good way of getting yourself killed on any planet with a night cycle.

Their gear can compensate by filtering the light levels up or down to the level they're used to yes, but then the Fire Warrior novelisation implies that they use non-3d single-pane screens on the insides of their helmets to see... which is, uh... really awful and should make attaining BS2 impossible, but eh.

Hunam0001 wrote:
I thought Tau where farsighted?

Haaaa!


Seriously though as a Tau player BS4 would be absurd. Last thing we need is another buff to our already top tier army.

For a start BS is FAR more important than WS. Secondly if you want to stick to fluff then why not recomend just dropping the WS to 2? It won't make a massive difference because when tau get into combat it tends to be the end of them anyway. It may make them slightly more balanced compared to everyone but Eldar and Demons (not that much more though).

 Deadshot wrote:
Tau only live 40 years or so. They don't have time to train effectively as Marines or even grizzled IG Vets do.
Tau have poor depth perception and ae near sighted so rely on technology to fill in the gaps, unlike Marines who have enhanced eyesight AND technological targeting arrays, or even the regular eyesight of humans.
Tau's superior firepower comes from the range and strength of the ordnance over the Imperium's standard weaponry. Ok, compared to a bolter its not much (+6" range and +1 strength) but compared to a Lasgun its fantastic (+6" range, +2 Strength and AP5)

People always bring up this 40 year lifespan thing but I've never seen it in any of the Tau codices. According to the most recent Tau Codex, Puretide was born in 651 M41 and was described as elderly in 731 M41. So he was described as elderly when he was 80 years old. So either he was a mutant who lived twice as long as any other Tau, spent an entire lifetime in stasis over the course of his career , or the Tau have a lifespan which is the equivalent of a human.