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For a mere 880 points, you can take two bare-bones Demi-companies with the captain, chaplain, 6 tactical squads, two assault squads, and 2 devastator squads.

That has no upgrades, of course, but that will also enable you to take 10 razorbacks for FREE. 550 points of objective secured, twin-linked heavy bolters for absolutely free. Oh and your devastator and assault squads also have objective secured, as do your captain and chaplain.

This MSU madness also contains, at current, 50 power armoured models with ATSKNF that won't be easy to kill, all told. And for a mere 200 more points, those razorbacks can all be armed with quite deadly weapons (odd that all their weapon upgrade options cost exactly the same), or just give them all flamers and make a nightmare for enemy infantry.

I think this is pretty cool actually, as it will encourage marine players to do two things:

A) take tactical squads, dammit

B) we'll possibly see some variety of units, working together, rather than spamming or creating a death star of centurions with psychic powers that they depend on to do all their work for them.


Edit: Just noticed the Gladius also REQUIRES an auxiliary force, but apparently that could in fact just be another single captain or chaplain, bringing the minimum cost to 970 rather than 880, but still not so bad!

I don't see where it says you can take the rino/razorback and heavy weps for free in the SM book. Where are you referencing from?

You still have to pay to upgrade the weapons; that's why the OP said "for a mere 200 points" you can give the rbacks deadly weapons. Still, 10 TL heavy bolters isn't nothing.

I still think pods are the way to go. The alpha strike is so much stronger; and you're going to need it against Eldar Jetseers, Screamerstars, etc.

He says 10 Razorbacks for FREE. I've seen this kinda discussion before and I'm just curious as to where all these free stuff comes from?

It's in the formations special rules. You can take dedicated transports for all squads who want and can have them for free. However upgrades for the transports still cost points.

death_scythe wrote:He says 10 Razorbacks for FREE. I've seen this kinda discussion before and I'm just curious as to where all these free stuff comes from?

numeon06 wrote:It's in the formations special rules. You can take dedicated transports for all squads who want and can have them for free. However upgrades for the transports still cost points.

Deathscythe, it's in the new Space Marine codex that came out yesterday. Make sure you've got the new book.

 Spellbound wrote:
For a mere 880 points, you can take two bare-bones Demi-companies with the captain, chaplain, 6 tactical squads, two assault squads, and 2 devastator squads.

That has no upgrades, of course, but that will also enable you to take 10 razorbacks for FREE. 550 points of objective secured, twin-linked heavy bolters for absolutely free. Oh and your devastator and assault squads also have objective secured, as do your captain and chaplain.

This MSU madness also contains, at current, 50 power armoured models with ATSKNF that won't be easy to kill, all told. And for a mere 200 more points, those razorbacks can all be armed with quite deadly weapons (odd that all their weapon upgrade options cost exactly the same), or just give them all flamers and make a nightmare for enemy infantry.

I think this is pretty cool actually, as it will encourage marine players to do two things:

A) take tactical squads, dammit

B) we'll possibly see some variety of units, working together, rather than spamming or creating a death star of centurions with psychic powers that they depend on to do all their work for them.


Edit: Just noticed the Gladius also REQUIRES an auxiliary force, but apparently that could in fact just be another single captain or chaplain, bringing the minimum cost to 970 rather than 880, but still not so bad!

The command group is not an auxiliary. The cheapest aux groups are the 10th company strike force at a barebones 165, and the suppression force at barebones 175.

but yes, I'm quite happy to see rules the actually enable a bunch of rank-and-file power armor Marines to be a competitive force (without spamming pods.)

Something like the fifth thread talking about it. Yes, you can do it, yes people are complaining about it, no we don't know how good it is and personally, I think it's still worse than both #Lictorshame and the Scout list that took 2nd place (with new Scout statlines). Not a new idea people. Free Razorbacks just means no Infiltrate or Drop Pods.

Free Drop Pods are smarter and utilize the entire Detachment getting Obj Sec. This is MSU tactics, and MSU does not win by weight of S5 guns. It wins by having too many targets actively on Objectives to kill and keeping table control all game long. Who cares about free. Use the tools, not drool over the shiny bits. You have the option for 8 Pods and two Bike Squads. Use them as 8 Pods and two Bike Squads, just like games normally do. Two of the pods have Grav-Devs to deal serious hurt. Use Auxillaries to bring in something stronger. A trio of Sternguard units doing their thing in pods as well.

If these last ITC armies have shown me anything, it's that the basics are what is winning games. The new power level might shift things but I am still going to keep things simple for a while and see how that treats me.

First this list is illegal in itc or anywhere they don't allow multiple of the same formation.
Second this list is a minimum 1045 with no weapons or upgrades. The aux with 10th company.
And then this list is hard countered by ap3 blasts.

Heck I would love to see this list with razorback spam vs a guard artillery line with MoO. Just spam multiple basilisk artillery platforms for 75pt str9ap3 large blasts. Spam a full squad of wyverns Because they love closely packed troops.
I've been playing ork and iG blobs of over 100 models with support so 50 space marines is hardly anything to cry about. While 3+ is good it's hardly amazing. With no invul, cover or fnp basic armour isn't that great anymore.

gungo wrote:
First this list is illegal in itc or anywhere they don't allow multiple of the same formation.

Not everyone plays with those house rules.

In all honesty, with these recent formations that give you free points, I could see 8th edition 40k doing away with point values and just saying "discuss with your opponent what forces you would like to bring and what narrative you would like to forge."

=/

Free transports are a lovely thing.

 Ghaz wrote:

gungo wrote:
First this list is illegal in itc or anywhere they don't allow multiple of the same formation.

Not everyone plays with those house rules.

I didn't say that I said itc and anywhere they don't allow multiple of the same formations.
You can play whatever house rules you want.

And again, not everybody plays by ITC's house rules so why bring it up if he didn't say he was using their house rules? The actual, written rules allow multiples of the same formation.

im sorry i must be blind. i cant find it in the new SM book. there is the bemi-company data sheet, but it does not say they get a free transport.

It's not in the Demi-Company section, it's in the Gladius section, under that Detachment's Command Benefits.

 death_scythe wrote:
im sorry i must be blind. i cant find it in the new SM book. there is the bemi-company data sheet, but it does not say they get a free transport.

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/p1.png

Read this one through.

I don't see where you're getting the idea that more than 6 of the razorbacks/6 tactical squads are getting ObSec from?

Mavnas wrote:
I don't see where you're getting the idea that more than 6 of the razorbacks/6 tactical squads are getting ObSec from?

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/p60.png

This one pretty clearly states that ObSec is a command benefit in a Demi-Company.

The minimum you could actually speed is 995:
Space Marines - 995

Captain - 90
Chaplain - 90

Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Scout Squad - 55
- 5 Scouts
Scout Squad - 55
- 5 Scouts
Scout Squad - 55
- 5 Scouts

Attack Bike Squad - 45
- 1 Attack Bike
Attack Bike Squad - 45
- 1 Attack Bike

Devastator Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Devastator Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines

*Looks at all the cool, overpowered, formations the Space Marines are getting. Looks at the ridiculous and underpowered formations the Imperial Guard get*

So, its good to know that GW still caters to the average SM player then.

The Gladius strike force is something SM players were looking for.
Free transports and obj sec.
Gives SM a new edge.

 Vespid wrote:
The minimum you could actually speed is 995:
Space Marines - 995

Captain - 90
Chaplain - 90

Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Tactical Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Scout Squad - 55
- 5 Scouts
Scout Squad - 55
- 5 Scouts
Scout Squad - 55
- 5 Scouts

Attack Bike Squad - 45
- 1 Attack Bike
Attack Bike Squad - 45
- 1 Attack Bike

Devastator Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines
Devastator Squad - 70
- 5 Space Marines

I did find cheaper builds, but it often involved bikes and those don't get transports. It seems to me that it's useless to take a unit that doesn't have a transport, when using these formations, because then you get no benefit.

If you want ONE demi company, that's fine. But if you're going for the two so you can have free transports, take units that take transports!

 Spellbound wrote:
For a mere 880 points, you can take two bare-bones Demi-companies with the captain, chaplain, 6 tactical squads, two assault squads, and 2 devastator squads.

That has no upgrades, of course, but that will also enable you to take 10 razorbacks for FREE. 550 points of objective secured, twin-linked heavy bolters for absolutely free. Oh and your devastator and assault squads also have objective secured, as do your captain and chaplain.

This MSU madness also contains, at current, 50 power armoured models with ATSKNF that won't be easy to kill, all told. And for a mere 200 more points, those razorbacks can all be armed with quite deadly weapons (odd that all their weapon upgrade options cost exactly the same), or just give them all flamers and make a nightmare for enemy infantry.

I wonder how well you can gear up a Gladius and a Skyhammer at 1850? You won't have a ton of upgrades, but with that many free transports, it's pretty lop sided.
If opponent reserves to limit the hit from the sky hammer, you've got a ton of objective secure that will flat out and post up all over the table.

-Matt

I hope this promotes more things than just drop pod spam. I'd love to see rhinos and razorbacks racing around the field. And it does give more variety to SM then just bikes or a deathstar.

And anyone that keeps whining that their 6th ed codex is underpowered compared to this (or crons, elder, admech...) needs to let it go. You just can not compare these new ones to the old 6th ones. Its the people that got boned in the early 7th codexes that can complain a little. lol.

It would have been cool to see a new rhino chassis model release with this.

I see everyone is trying to run small demi-companies to get the free transports. Personally, I think they make a weak version of the demi-company that can easy be broken. Also most of these list are missing a 1+ require formation. Check out the command formations. The Gladius strike force says its 1+ on command. Personally, I think the real benefits of the Gladius strike force is double chapter tactics. Basically anyone playing it has chapter tactics Ultramarine because of the strike force and whatever chapter tactics I choose. This means that the combat docturins are available. This makes for some pretty powerful turns.

What source are you looking at?? 0-3 Command, 1-2 Core, 1+ AUXILLARY. And a small Demi-Company doesn't give free transports.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
What source are you looking at?? 0-3 Command, 1-2 Core, 1+ AUXILLARY. And a small Demi-Company doesn't give free transports.

okay still most people are still only taken into account the required choices for the demi-company to make small versions of it. Still missing the require 1 aux choice. Yes a small dem-company does not give free transports. I was calling it that because of most of these list i've seen have been 5 man minimum squad choices.

gungo wrote:
First this list is illegal in itc or anywhere they don't allow multiple of the same formation.

I'm pretty sure the ITC will change to allow running 2 demi-companies. You can almost consider the Battle Company to be 1 formation consisting of 2 demi-companies.

I say run nothing but 5 man TAC squads with no upgrades in razorbacks, a cc bile command squad with either a razorback or drop pod, kitted out chapter master on bike with a chaplain on a bike and then put your 5 man assault Marines withflamers and devastators withgrav cannons both in drop pods.

Run Iron Hands for a 4+ FNP on the command star
Your auxiliary would be the armored task force with 3 whirlwinds and a techmarine.