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Made in us
Been Around the Block




Who thinks GW will update imperial terminators as primaris terminators and leave the regular terminators as is? The chaos terminators are beautiful and inspires me to start a force around terminators but I prefer the primaris look overall vs chaos.
   
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They certainly will. Nothing is safe from Cawl and his Primaris-fying needle!

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A number of people will say Aggressors are the new Terminators. However, IMHO, they don't feel the same as Terminators.


I would not be opposed to Primaris Terminators.
   
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San Jose, CA

Arcanis161 wrote:
A number of people will say Aggressors are the new Terminators. However, IMHO, they don't feel the same as Terminators.


I would not be opposed to Primaris Terminators.


I think Gravis will at some point get the option to upgrade to an invuln and an additional wound. maybe having the option to do mixed loadouts, i.e. boltstorm gauntlet & power sword (ala gravcapt) or flamestorm & thunder hammer.

Or they could have something different. which would also be cool. they really need a tough melee oriented unit.
   
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They don't need to? Terminators are already taller, have an extra wound, and a good plastic kit. They are to Primaris marines the same thing they were to regular marines last edition. Same wounds, better saves, more elite loadout and points cost.

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Dallas area, TX

I agree Aggressors are close to Primaris Termies and probably a good example of how GW is going to "Primarify" Marines.

No unit is going to 100% replace a non-Primaris equivalent. Intercessors are the closest to this, but as they do not have access to special/heavy weapons, they don't "quite" replace Tacticals.

Just like Aggressors don't 'quite' replace Termies, but they are close enough.
Reivers are a good example of a Primaris unit that borrows from 2 different roles (albeit inadequately so). They are kind of in the middle ground of non-sniper Scouts and non-jump Assault Marines in role.

Eliminators, of course borrow heavily form Sniper Scouts, but by not being Troops, they fill a slightly different role.

I'd expect GW to continue this trend of release new Primaris units that take roles from other units while completely replacing those units.
It's clever, really, as GW gets to continue releasing new units without "invalidating" the old unit....just yet. Once all the "roles" are filled, however, and Old Marine sales start to drop, we all know want's gonna happen.

So now, I do not think Termies will be getting Primarified. But I do think a Gravis unit that is more melee oriented might show up eventually.

-

   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Vector Strike wrote:
They certainly will. Nothing is safe from Cawl and his Primaris-fying needle!
Of the units that have come out, which ones actually correspond to existing units? Intercessors correspond to Tactical Squads, to a certain extent. They can't take a heavy weapon, and I look at the grenade launcher as more of a special weapon. That the sergeants can finally take a halfways decent variety of melee weapons is the only step in the right direction we have seen lately. I guess Hellblasters sort of mimic Devastators. But that is basically it. Nothing else really corresponds to a RSM variant.

Looking at Infantry and Bikers,
Assault Squads - I guess if you really want to say Reivers are these, even though they definitely are bit. Inceptors are airborne Devastators, as are Suppressors, not Assault Marines.
Bike Squads - Nope. Aggressors and Inceptors are closer due to their speed and higher toughness.
Terminators - Nope. No Invulnerables, no Heavy Weapons, no Teleport Strike. Inceptors are closer than Aggressors are.
Veterans(Sternguard, Vanguard, or Company) - Using a Specialist Detachment and a Stratagem, you can make one Squad of Intercessors into these. So...nope.
Attack Bikes - Nope.
Scouts - Eliminators and Scouts are most definitely not the same thing. Infiltrators are closer, but still fill a different niche. No HW. Maybe they will get a non-Mastercrafted version of the Phobos Captain's gun, which might make them closer.

So two out of however many units. That's totally the same thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/10 21:58:18


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Made in us
Awesome Autarch






This is where I think they really missed a step with the Aggressor pattern armour.

In short: Primaris Terminator Squads are Impossible

Outlandish statement, perhaps? Not so much. Aggressors are not particularly durable, with very little making them special. They certainly share the profile and bulk that a Terminator replacement should have though - which is the problem. They even have several small terminator nods in their design (the helmets feature the jowl-cylinders of normal terminators, etc.).

Aggressors come in squads of three, because they're quite large miniatures. This means that any future Terminator version will be at the very most, three models (as sold in the box at least). There will not be a boxed set of five Primaris Terminator replacement minis. It'll be either a up-armoured aggressor style with three models, or, more logically, an Obliterator type of unit (essentially they'll be the new evolution of Centurions which'll disappear since they're crap and no one uses them).

Primaris minis, as they get larger, squad sizes will go down. I think they just really fethed up by making Aggressors so minimally better than basic armour. They should have been "the" Terminator replacements, full stop. They should have released in a few more options with more weapons, etc. GW is in a weird spot, since something with Terminator-esque-beating stats and armour will have to be bigger or bulkier than aggressors. But large squads of heavy armored veterans...more or less dead at the moment unless GW re-writes something.

 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





I could see a gravis unit that is a terminator equivilant, give it a stoime sheild, melee weapon and wrist mounted boltgun and you've a solid unit. it'd be pricy though

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Sioux Falls, SD

BrianDavion wrote:
I could see a gravis unit that is a terminator equivilant, give it a stoime sheild, melee weapon and wrist mounted boltgun and you've a solid unit. it'd be pricy though
That seems like a decent option. Maybe the gun could be integrated into the melee weapon or shield. I would love to see close combat Suppressors to go with their long range dudes, especially since the Suppressors seem to imply there is a decent CC unit that just doesn't exist yet.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I could see a gravis unit that is a terminator equivilant, give it a stoime sheild, melee weapon and wrist mounted boltgun and you've a solid unit. it'd be pricy though
That seems like a decent option. Maybe the gun could be integrated into the melee weapon or shield. I would love to see close combat Suppressors to go with their long range dudes, especially since the Suppressors seem to imply there is a decent CC unit that just doesn't exist yet.


Maybe borrow from the stormsheild/sword option custodes have?

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BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I could see a gravis unit that is a terminator equivilant, give it a stoime sheild, melee weapon and wrist mounted boltgun and you've a solid unit. it'd be pricy though
That seems like a decent option. Maybe the gun could be integrated into the melee weapon or shield. I would love to see close combat Suppressors to go with their long range dudes, especially since the Suppressors seem to imply there is a decent CC unit that just doesn't exist yet.


Maybe borrow from the stormsheild/sword option custodes have?

this could work
   
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Primarchs and Custodes wear Terminator Armour, so it seems reasonable that they might be able to cram Primaris in there. After all, it's supposed to be the ultimate form of personal armour.
   
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British Columbia

I'm really surprised none of the Primaris units have been melee specialists.

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No melee units thus far has been a blessing in disguise. If they'd come out early in 8th they'd be as feth-awful as normal Marine assault units are. This will at least give GW time to establish what's good in the game so they're not dead-on-arrival like normal Assault Marines, etc. And sadly...I say that as a casual player.

 
   
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 Elbows wrote:
This is where I think they really missed a step with the Aggressor pattern armour.

In short: Primaris Terminator Squads are Impossible

Outlandish statement, perhaps? Not so much. Aggressors are not particularly durable, with very little making them special. They certainly share the profile and bulk that a Terminator replacement should have though - which is the problem. They even have several small terminator nods in their design (the helmets feature the jowl-cylinders of normal terminators, etc.).

Aggressors come in squads of three, because they're quite large miniatures. This means that any future Terminator version will be at the very most, three models (as sold in the box at least). There will not be a boxed set of five Primaris Terminator replacement minis. It'll be either a up-armoured aggressor style with three models, or, more logically, an Obliterator type of unit (essentially they'll be the new evolution of Centurions which'll disappear since they're crap and no one uses them).

Primaris minis, as they get larger, squad sizes will go down. I think they just really fethed up by making Aggressors so minimally better than basic armour. They should have been "the" Terminator replacements, full stop. They should have released in a few more options with more weapons, etc. GW is in a weird spot, since something with Terminator-esque-beating stats and armour will have to be bigger or bulkier than aggressors. But large squads of heavy armored veterans...more or less dead at the moment unless GW re-writes something.


Gravis armour is basically a auxiliary platform for marines like Centurion suits. Hook up massive thrusters, missiles, belt fed weapons. A Terminator equivalent would most likely be different. That way GW can make things in gravis armour and "Termie armour+"
   
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 Eldarain wrote:
I'm really surprised none of the Primaris units have been melee specialists.

Reivers are, they're just really bad at it.


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 fraser1191 wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
This is where I think they really missed a step with the Aggressor pattern armour.

In short: Primaris Terminator Squads are Impossible

Outlandish statement, perhaps? Not so much. Aggressors are not particularly durable, with very little making them special. They certainly share the profile and bulk that a Terminator replacement should have though - which is the problem. They even have several small terminator nods in their design (the helmets feature the jowl-cylinders of normal terminators, etc.).

Aggressors come in squads of three, because they're quite large miniatures. This means that any future Terminator version will be at the very most, three models (as sold in the box at least). There will not be a boxed set of five Primaris Terminator replacement minis. It'll be either a up-armoured aggressor style with three models, or, more logically, an Obliterator type of unit (essentially they'll be the new evolution of Centurions which'll disappear since they're crap and no one uses them).

Primaris minis, as they get larger, squad sizes will go down. I think they just really fethed up by making Aggressors so minimally better than basic armour. They should have been "the" Terminator replacements, full stop. They should have released in a few more options with more weapons, etc. GW is in a weird spot, since something with Terminator-esque-beating stats and armour will have to be bigger or bulkier than aggressors. But large squads of heavy armored veterans...more or less dead at the moment unless GW re-writes something.


Gravis armour is basically a auxiliary platform for marines like Centurion suits. Hook up massive thrusters, missiles, belt fed weapons. A Terminator equivalent would most likely be different. That way GW can make things in gravis armour and "Termie armour+"


Correct, and I understand that...but that's simply a design decision and a poor one. You now have very large, very expensive miniatures...which need to be one-upped to justify making a stronger unit. There's no logical room in the model line for a Terminator unit at this point unless they hand-wavium "heavy aggressors" or give up and go straight to much larger Obliterator-styled models.

 
   
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Sioux Falls, SD

 Crimson wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
I'm really surprised none of the Primaris units have been melee specialists.

Reivers are, they're just really bad at it.

They are better off leaving their knives at home and being jetted around the board by the Photos Librarian and using their bolt carbines. Too bad they are not any better at that than Intercessors are.

I would really like to see a Gravis unit like BrianDavion suggests. A Storm Shield and something like the Sentinel Blade. They would be similar to Terminators that way, but still unique.

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It could be a possibility, the people over at games workshop have been constantly developing the Primaris Space Marines as of late, so we may get Primaris terminators.

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 Elbows wrote:

[snip] (essentially they'll be the new evolution of Centurions which'll disappear since they're crap and no one uses them).
[/snip]


This always bothers me because A) I happen to really like that model and B) there's nothing inherently wrong with the Centurion chassis. It's a W3, S5, T5, 2+, A2, with move-and-fire built in. (Which might as well have a 5++ against most of the field, there really aren't that many AP 4 weapons.) That's roughly a Custodes, minus the invuln bump they get as an army trait, and getting one fewer attack is ok when even the melee Centurions have much better ranged firepower than anything a Custodes can take.

The Centurion's real problem (besides people not liking the model, which is entirely subjective) is that they're absurdly over-gunned and don't benefit from the Twin-Linked discounts. Even the cheapest option on a CDev is 30 points. 12 bolt gun and 6 HB shots is nothing to sneeze at, but 70 points total is steep for something that you can't take less than three of. 40 is probably still a bit too expensive, but what they really need is a cheaper entry-level weapon loadout. Imagine if they had Storm Bolters as the basic arm gun: the base price is now only 54 points for 20 bolter shots on Devs, and the base melee version is also 8 points cheaper and has better base threat range.

Edit: Come to think of it, why is a Hurricane Bolter still 10 points? It's three linked Storm Bolters, if anything it shouldn't even cost 6.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/11 18:33:45


 
   
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Arcanis161 wrote:
A number of people will say Aggressors are the new Terminators. However, IMHO, they don't feel the same as Terminators.


I would not be opposed to Primaris Terminators.


maybe that has something to do with the fact that a terminator suit gives you a 5++, double the wounds, 2+ armor save, and deep strike, and a suit of Gravitatious Armitoriation (tm) gives you just +1T, a rule that sometimes, but not often, makes a single die shift of difference in your defenses.
   
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Primaris Terminators are already in the game actually, only they don't have the primaris keyword as of yet.

Centaurian Devestators are in fact primaris terminators.


There will eventually be an update converting them over to primaris in the future. It will probably not happen till 9th edition when they can completely phase out the Index options.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
Primaris Terminators are already in the game actually, only they don't have the primaris keyword as of yet.

Centaurian Devestators are in fact primaris terminators.


There will eventually be an update converting them over to primaris in the future. It will probably not happen till 9th edition when they can completely phase out the Index options.


Don't the new Obliterators who are mutated centurions kind of shoot holes in this?
   
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the_scotsman wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Primaris Terminators are already in the game actually, only they don't have the primaris keyword as of yet.

Centaurian Devestators are in fact primaris terminators.


There will eventually be an update converting them over to primaris in the future. It will probably not happen till 9th edition when they can completely phase out the Index options.


Don't the new Obliterators who are mutated centurions kind of shoot holes in this?


they're not mutated centurions but are in fact mutated havoks. if you compare a oblit to a havok VERY carefully you can actually see the relationship

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BrianDavion wrote:

they're not mutated centurions but are in fact mutated havoks. if you compare a oblit to a havok VERY carefully you can actually see the relationship

No. Look at the feet, they're clearly Centurions.

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Either way they're urgin for a purgin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/11 20:12:38


 
   
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 Crimson wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

they're not mutated centurions but are in fact mutated havoks. if you compare a oblit to a havok VERY carefully you can actually see the relationship

No. Look at the feet, they're clearly Centurions.


take a look at havoks you can see some clear signs there, where the havoks heads are wired into position etc

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I want primaris termies for my wolves, badly.

I am impatient

 
   
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 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Either way they're urgin for a purgin.

Thanks for the laugh. Exalted!
   
 
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