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I want Inceptors with dual Power Fists...

 
   
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Sioux Falls, SD

 AduroT wrote:
I want Inceptors with dual Power Fists...
Gimme one with a Boltstorm Gauntlet and a Storm Shield.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
I want Inceptors with dual Power Fists...
Gimme one with a Boltstorm Gauntlet and a Storm Shield.


Aggressor-style Boltstorm or the Gravis Captain pistol version?

Also, we won't get that until mini-marines get squatted because it would completely invalidate Vanguard Veterans and GW seems to be trying not to do that sort of thing.

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I hate to admit it because I've defended the Repulsor a lot but I do sort of want a Razorback-style Primaris transport if they're not going to drop transport-segregation.

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On the original topic, Aggressors are a 2+ away from being in basically Terminator design space against everything below AP 4, and there's really not a huge number of things floating around with AP 4. Why Aggressors aren't a 2+ instead of a 3+ is beyond me.
   
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






The Newman wrote:

On the original topic, Aggressors are a 2+ away from being in basically Terminator design space against everything below AP 4, and there's really not a huge number of things floating around with AP 4. Why Aggressors aren't a 2+ instead of a 3+ is beyond me.


Maybe because they're covered in weapons that use explosive ammunition.

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So are Centurions and they're still a 2-up.
   
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Centurions are also just flat out BIGGER than Aggressors or Terminators.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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Some of them are carrying miniature Krak missiles in uncovered tubes on their chest. By rights they ought to occasionally explode from small arms fire setting off the exposed warheads.

Besides, bigger doesn't usually mean a better save. Look how much bigger a Redemptor is than a regular Dreadnaught; that's represented by 5 more wounds. Their armor values are exactly the same. A Storm Raven dwarfs both of them: same 3+. Heck, if I recall correctly Knights are a 3+.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/18 00:24:33


 
   
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When it comes to infantry, it actually kinda does. The progression of Flak Armor to Carapace Armor to Power Armor is due to increased coverage as well as increased quality. Carapace and Power Armor are bulkier, heavier armors and they provide additional protection BECAUSE of said bulk.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/18 02:02:44


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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My blog
 
   
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Hanoi, Vietnam.

The Newman wrote:
On the original topic, Aggressors are a 2+ away from being in basically Terminator design space against everything below AP 4, and there's really not a huge number of things floating around with AP 4. Why Aggressors aren't a 2+ instead of a 3+ is beyond me.

I actually think it's a result of Games Workshop trying to mollify concerns from the player base about Terminators getting squatted. If Aggressor's had just been given Terminator stats, I can just imagine the furor of players admonishing Games Workshop for "pushing their new models on players."
   
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 Ginjitzu wrote:
The Newman wrote:
On the original topic, Aggressors are a 2+ away from being in basically Terminator design space against everything below AP 4, and there's really not a huge number of things floating around with AP 4. Why Aggressors aren't a 2+ instead of a 3+ is beyond me.

I actually think it's a result of Games Workshop trying to mollify concerns from the player base about Terminators getting squatted. If Aggressor's had just been given Terminator stats, I can just imagine the furor of players admonishing Games Workshop for "pushing their new models on players."


agressors also have a bit of a differant role from terminators. they're more akin to centurions then terminators.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
agressors also have a bit of a differant role from terminators. they're more akin to centurions then terminators.

I've been wondering about that. What exactly is that role? Heavily armored weapons platform? Isn't that the same role as Terminators, but with less mobility and less defense? I'm struggling to figure out what Aggressors can do that Terminators can't.
   
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 Ginjitzu wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
agressors also have a bit of a differant role from terminators. they're more akin to centurions then terminators.

I've been wondering about that. What exactly is that role? Heavily armored weapons platform? Isn't that the same role as Terminators, but with less mobility and less defense? I'm struggling to figure out what Aggressors can do that Terminators can't.


Aggressors are more mobile than terminators. They ignore the penalty for advancing and firing assault weapons.

I'd say their role is horde clearing. Not much else you can do with S4 ap-
   
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 fraser1191 wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
agressors also have a bit of a differant role from terminators. they're more akin to centurions then terminators.

I've been wondering about that. What exactly is that role? Heavily armored weapons platform? Isn't that the same role as Terminators, but with less mobility and less defense? I'm struggling to figure out what Aggressors can do that Terminators can't.


Aggressors are more mobile than terminators. They ignore the penalty for advancing and firing assault weapons.

I'd say their role is horde clearing. Not much else you can do with S4 ap-


A Terminator puts out 8 shots on the move now and an Aggressor puts out 9.5. An Aggressor is actually a lot less mobile if you want to get it's full potential shot volume.
   
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To be fair, with their potential shot output they can down some elite models via forcing saves too.
   
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Aggressors are simply the dumbest looking models, 2nd only to the Thunderwolf Sled abomination thing. It's like Hasboro was given production rights. It's a rockem Sockem robot.
   
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 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Aggressors are simply the dumbest looking models, 2nd only to the Thunderwolf Sled abomination thing. It's like Hasboro was given production rights. It's a rockem Sockem robot.

So they're sillier looking than Centurions? I don't think that's possible.
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Aggressors are simply the dumbest looking models, 2nd only to the Thunderwolf Sled abomination thing. It's like Hasboro was given production rights. It's a rockem Sockem robot.

So they're sillier looking than Centurions? I don't think that's possible.

I would say they are, a centurion suit atleast looks like it's built to take punishment while rocking heavy weapons, and aggressor just looks like he's been designed by a 5 year old, really powered ammo feed to an inbuilt drum mag?
   
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Ice_can wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Aggressors are simply the dumbest looking models, 2nd only to the Thunderwolf Sled abomination thing. It's like Hasboro was given production rights. It's a rockem Sockem robot.

So they're sillier looking than Centurions? I don't think that's possible.

I would say they are, a centurion suit atleast looks like it's built to take punishment while rocking heavy weapons, and aggressor just looks like he's been designed by a 5 year old, really powered ammo feed to an inbuilt drum mag?

I don’t know, I like the Juggernaut look of Aggressors. I’d prefer if they had a “heavier” sounding name, though, like “Destructors” or “Decimators” or something.

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You do know we've had belt fed plot weapons pretty much standard for a while right?
Spoiler:

Edit: That was a way bigger image than I thought. Teach me to post from my phone.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/18 13:36:17


 
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
You do know we've had belt fed plot weapons pretty much standard for a while right?
Spoiler:

Read carefully, I don't mind powerfed ammo systems, it's a powered belt fed into a drum magazine on the gauntlet that is WTF? It's having an ammo feed for a different ammo feed system it doesn't any make sense.
Like imagine that bolter weapon feed going into the scout heavybolter with its side ammo hopper, that's what aggressors have.
   
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Ice_can wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
You do know we've had belt fed plot weapons pretty much standard for a while right?
Spoiler:

Read carefully, I don't mind powerfed ammo systems, it's a powered belt fed into a drum magazine on the gauntlet that is WTF? It's having an ammo feed for a different ammo feed system it doesn't any make sense.
Like imagine that bolter weapon feed going into the scout heavybolter with its side ammo hopper, that's what aggressors have.

Meh, it doesn't bother me that much, but 40k has always had a "rule of cool" approach to things.
   
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The dumbest "Beltfed model" def goes to Scions Hotshot weapons.

Hi! I'm a super-duper flimsy model that makes zero sense.

I ended up snapping off every belt to the hot shot weapons and just made them like the ones you can attach to back packs.

Wait....just remembered Suppressors....STAHP WITH BELT FED! IT MAKE A NO SENSE!
   
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 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The dumbest "Beltfed model" def goes to Scions Hotshot weapons.

Hi! I'm a super-duper flimsy model that makes zero sense.

I ended up snapping off every belt to the hot shot weapons and just made them like the ones you can attach to back packs.

Wait....just remembered Suppressors....STAHP WITH BELT FED! IT MAKE A NO SENSE!

Belt fed makes perfect sense when you consider the weapons likely fire hundred of rounds a minute if under sustained fire.

Well, save for the Scions. That's clearly a larger power pack to compensate for how fast the hotshot would drain a regular power pack.
   
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Yeah I like the power pack version, looks cool. Though they are a bit of a nightmare to model with DKK grenadiers.
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The dumbest "Beltfed model" def goes to Scions Hotshot weapons.

Hi! I'm a super-duper flimsy model that makes zero sense.

I ended up snapping off every belt to the hot shot weapons and just made them like the ones you can attach to back packs.

Wait....just remembered Suppressors....STAHP WITH BELT FED! IT MAKE A NO SENSE!

Belt fed makes perfect sense when you consider the weapons likely fire hundred of rounds a minute if under sustained fire.

Well, save for the Scions. That's clearly a larger power pack to compensate for how fast the hotshot would drain a regular power pack.


No, a high rate of fire does not make belt feeds make sense. Having an ammo box that would be entirely too cumbersome to actually attach to the weapon is what makes belt feeds make sense.
- The Heavy Bolter carried by a regular marine is attached to a gigantic ammo box, belt fed makes sense. - Suppressors have a tiny little ammo drum that's barely bigger than the belt's attachment point to the weapon, belt feed makes no sense.

Aggressors are a whole different story, those cables are either power feeds for the Fist (which most Power Fists have on them somewhere) or they're targetting links to feed the bolter's targetter to the Aggressor's HUD. Or both.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/18 16:13:26


 
   
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The Newman wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The dumbest "Beltfed model" def goes to Scions Hotshot weapons.

Hi! I'm a super-duper flimsy model that makes zero sense.

I ended up snapping off every belt to the hot shot weapons and just made them like the ones you can attach to back packs.

Wait....just remembered Suppressors....STAHP WITH BELT FED! IT MAKE A NO SENSE!

Belt fed makes perfect sense when you consider the weapons likely fire hundred of rounds a minute if under sustained fire.

Well, save for the Scions. That's clearly a larger power pack to compensate for how fast the hotshot would drain a regular power pack.


No, a high rate of fire does not make belt feeds make sense. Having an ammo box that would be entirely too cumbersome to actually attach to the weapon is what makes belt feeds make sense.
- The Heavy Bolter carried by a regular marine is attached to a gigantic ammo box, belt fed makes sense. - Suppressors have a tiny little ammo drum that's barely bigger than the belt's attachment point to the weapon, belt feed makes no sense.

Aggressors are a whole different story, those cables are either power feeds for the Fist (which most Power Fists have on them somewhere) or they're targetting links to feed the bolter's targetter to the Aggressor's HUD. Or both.

That would make sense, except the boltstorm one is square and tge flamestorm one is round, so clearly ment as ammo feeds.
   
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Nothing says the Flamestorm and Boltstorm have to be using the cables for the same reasons or storing ammo in the same places, and there wouldn't be much point in feeding targetting data to the HUD from a flamer in the first place.
   
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The Newman wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The dumbest "Beltfed model" def goes to Scions Hotshot weapons.

Hi! I'm a super-duper flimsy model that makes zero sense.

I ended up snapping off every belt to the hot shot weapons and just made them like the ones you can attach to back packs.

Wait....just remembered Suppressors....STAHP WITH BELT FED! IT MAKE A NO SENSE!

Belt fed makes perfect sense when you consider the weapons likely fire hundred of rounds a minute if under sustained fire.

Well, save for the Scions. That's clearly a larger power pack to compensate for how fast the hotshot would drain a regular power pack.


No, a high rate of fire does not make belt feeds make sense. Having an ammo box that would be entirely too cumbersome to actually attach to the weapon is what makes belt feeds make sense.
- The Heavy Bolter carried by a regular marine is attached to a gigantic ammo box, belt fed makes sense. - Suppressors have a tiny little ammo drum that's barely bigger than the belt's attachment point to the weapon, belt feed makes no sense.

Aggressors are a whole different story, those cables are either power feeds for the Fist (which most Power Fists have on them somewhere) or they're targetting links to feed the bolter's targetter to the Aggressor's HUD. Or both.

Except it does make sense when you remember it's easier to carry heavier loads on your back than on your wrist.
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The dumbest "Beltfed model" def goes to Scions Hotshot weapons.

Hi! I'm a super-duper flimsy model that makes zero sense.

I ended up snapping off every belt to the hot shot weapons and just made them like the ones you can attach to back packs.

Wait....just remembered Suppressors....STAHP WITH BELT FED! IT MAKE A NO SENSE!

Belt fed makes perfect sense when you consider the weapons likely fire hundred of rounds a minute if under sustained fire.

Well, save for the Scions. That's clearly a larger power pack to compensate for how fast the hotshot would drain a regular power pack.


No, a high rate of fire does not make belt feeds make sense. Having an ammo box that would be entirely too cumbersome to actually attach to the weapon is what makes belt feeds make sense.
- The Heavy Bolter carried by a regular marine is attached to a gigantic ammo box, belt fed makes sense. - Suppressors have a tiny little ammo drum that's barely bigger than the belt's attachment point to the weapon, belt feed makes no sense.

Aggressors are a whole different story, those cables are either power feeds for the Fist (which most Power Fists have on them somewhere) or they're targetting links to feed the bolter's targetter to the Aggressor's HUD. Or both.

Except it does make sense when you remember it's easier to carry heavier loads on your back than on your wrist.


The gauntlets are on their forearms like a late-period shield, not on their wrists. And also built into their power armor, the Primaris in question might be carrying only a fraction of the weight of that gun.

Inceptor Assault Bolter on the other hand...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/18 18:31:10


 
   
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The Newman wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The dumbest "Beltfed model" def goes to Scions Hotshot weapons.

Hi! I'm a super-duper flimsy model that makes zero sense.

I ended up snapping off every belt to the hot shot weapons and just made them like the ones you can attach to back packs.

Wait....just remembered Suppressors....STAHP WITH BELT FED! IT MAKE A NO SENSE!

Belt fed makes perfect sense when you consider the weapons likely fire hundred of rounds a minute if under sustained fire.

Well, save for the Scions. That's clearly a larger power pack to compensate for how fast the hotshot would drain a regular power pack.


No, a high rate of fire does not make belt feeds make sense. Having an ammo box that would be entirely too cumbersome to actually attach to the weapon is what makes belt feeds make sense.
- The Heavy Bolter carried by a regular marine is attached to a gigantic ammo box, belt fed makes sense. - Suppressors have a tiny little ammo drum that's barely bigger than the belt's attachment point to the weapon, belt feed makes no sense.

Aggressors are a whole different story, those cables are either power feeds for the Fist (which most Power Fists have on them somewhere) or they're targetting links to feed the bolter's targetter to the Aggressor's HUD. Or both.

Except it does make sense when you remember it's easier to carry heavier loads on your back than on your wrist.


The gauntlets are on their forearms like a late-period shield, not on their wrists. And also built into their power armor, the Primaris in question might be carrying only a fraction of the weight of that gun.

You want weight as close to your center of mass as possible for stability. Thousands of rounds are going to be heavy, so you want that on your back where it's more stable and it centered more over your legs for better support than straining the arms with the full weight.

Even if the Primaris himself isn't supporting the weight, the armour has to and straining the shoulder servos/muscle fibers/whatever is still not good design.
   
 
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