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2015/07/12 14:20:59
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
i lose realy bad he start the match and kill my malanthrope shooting with stalker .... yes he have some luck, then dimachaeron go down for the bikes and at the end of his fisrt turn he have 6 point ( we played maelstrom 2 )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/13 12:02:24
2015/07/13 13:25:14
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
i lose realy bad he start the match and kill my malanthrope shooting with stalker .... yes he have some luck, then dimachaeron go down for the bikes and at the end of his fisrt turn he have 6 point ( we played maelstrom 2 )
Well, I can help you out a bit. For starters, do you bring that list a lot, or did you have the match planned? Because I want to say that list seems pretty tailored against our flying. That being said, your best bet would be a list much like what Jim brought to the BAO. Mawlocs in reserve are good options for taking out some of those issues. Those vehicles can't move far if grouped up, which will give you some good chances to take them out with the mawlocs. Otherwise, the only other option is to play to the objectives and bring lots of gribblies. TMCs die pretty quickly to all that grav.
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
2015/07/13 17:01:07
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
i lose realy bad he start the match and kill my malanthrope shooting with stalker .... yes he have some luck, then dimachaeron go down for the bikes and at the end of his fisrt turn he have 6 point ( we played maelstrom 2 )
Even with 6 stalkers he shouldn't be killing your your Malanthrope turn 1, 2.6 wounds against 3+ or 1.3 wounds of you are in ruins, has it just been bad luck?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/13 17:01:58
2015/07/13 17:45:34
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Even less than that, 0.8 wounds as they all had Skyfire so would have been BS1.
TNasty, half the problem was that you brought list optimised for Eternal War to a Maelstrom game. For Maelstrom, it's essential you need a ground force.
The other half is that your Malanthrope shouldn't have been killed Turn 1, it should have been inside the Bastion where it would have been safe.
Other than that, swarm of guys would have dealt with that pretty easily. Grav doesn't mean much against 6+ guys. Just kill the flamers and bolter guys and you'll be fine.
YMDC = nightmare
2015/07/13 18:38:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Automatically Appended Next Post: is just bad luck, i start with my flyrants on reserve then he decided to try shoting on my malanthrope cause he ignore cover with stalker ... then he make 7 wounds on him on 6+ and i fail 3 of these, the last wound go down for 3 shot of land speeder cause i make 1 ( yes i fail 2+ cover inside my bastion )
I m not losing lot of match but i like to be a pro of tyranids but i have some problem with list like these were i play full flyrants and bastion.I tought that was easy to play full flyrants but i have some problem so i think to ask a pro how to run this list.
i sow some competitive list from users of dakka and are all similar ( tournament list ithink ) so i try to play like you hehe. Sry for my doubts but is from november that i start play and usually i play for fun
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/07/13 18:41:45
2015/07/13 18:57:12
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
He can't target the Malanthrope if it's inside the Bastion. Only the Bastion itself.
Av14 building ain't taking damage from anything in his list aside Melta if he's running it...but the only sources come from Bikes (which are all armed with Grav, which does nothing against buildings), Land Speeders and Attack Bikes which shouldn't be in Melta range. If they are in Melta range frequently, you can always deploy the Malanthrope behind it and block line of sight to it. It's not like he's running Barrage weapons.
YMDC = nightmare
2015/07/15 16:35:49
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Game #2, I went up against Eldar with 5x5 Scatterbikes, 3x3 Hornets and Inquisition allies.
Game #3, I went up against Abusepuppy, who won the TSHFT GT earlier this year. He played Space Marines Battle Company with Eldar allies (4x3 Scatterbikes).
So far I am 3-0 on Day #1 and in the top 4.
Tomorrow is going to be really, really tough. My Game #4 opponent will be Alan "Pajamapants" Barajmovich, a multiple-GT winner, member of Team USA ETC and the top player currently after Day #1, on Table #1. If I can beat him, then I think I have a good shot at winning another major GT with Tyranids!
Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
Not really. Mucolids have Shroud and so if I place them in ruins, then I will have 5 guys with 2+ cover saves. They aren't going to all die at once.
And then my spore mines are a unit that I can easily hide to ensure that I don't get tabled.
BTW, the terrain at BAO is pretty top-notch. You can expect almost every table to have some type of LOS-blocking terrain and ruins symmetrically. Chances are really good that I will be able to count on decent terrain. Now that is what a good tournament should provide - good and fair terrain for all.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
It's not something you can rely on doing, more of if the opportunity and situation allows or requires it then you do it. If the table has no where to hide, you just wouldn't do it.
That's right, and if I have to, I will deploy 1 or even 2 mawlocs as well as flyrants if necessary. So if the opponent has, for example, 6 alpha-strike units, then I will deploy a total of 7 units (if terrain is bad) to ensure that at least 1 unit will survive.
Basically, deployment is very important but the Tyranids have what it takes to survive most alpha-strikes.
Well, regardless, good luck on the tournament Jim. I don't think the Hive Mind will be discouraged by your efforts. Who knows, maybe on the way home the 7th edition Tyranid codex will be release for preorder.
Thanks! And as long as I don't lose too badly my next 2 games, I think I will reach my goals. Tomorrow, I can potentially win the whole tournament if I get 2 more wins.
Hmm, good stuff! Glad to hear you're doing so well so far, and best of luck in your next game! It'd be great to see Nids bring home another GT win. By the way, are you bringing Nids or SM to the ATC this year?
Actually, something came up and I will no longer be going. As a matter of fact, our team disbanded.
Maybe next year.
Dozer Blades wrote: Great going Jim !!! Looks like some really stiff competition - I'm pulling for ya !
i lose realy bad he start the match and kill my malanthrope shooting with stalker .... yes he have some luck, then dimachaeron go down for the bikes and at the end of his fisrt turn he have 6 point ( we played maelstrom 2 )
Your list has what it takes to beat his. It's just a matter of practice and getting to know your opponent. Here are some suggestions:
1. Dimachaeron is not ideal in this matchup. He is just too slow to chase around bikers. If you want to run him, put him in a tyrannoctye spore and drop him where the stalkers are to threaten them. Otherwise, as soon as he ventures out of malanthrope range, he will get shot to death.
2. Malanthrope should be in the bastion for protection. You should never deploy him outside of it unless you are hiding him behind the bastion where the opponent can't see.
3. Flyrants are problematic for him. This gives the match slightly in your favor. Just make sure that when you deploy, put them in ruins and within malanthrope/bastion range for the 2+ cover (when the malanthrope is deployed in the bastion, the shroud bubble is actually measured from the bastion itself, thus giving the power a much larger footprint).
4. Maelstrom missions favor the army with the better ground force. Thus, your opponent will have a slight advantage there, at least initially. But as the match progresses and he starts losing units to your flyrants, the Maelstrom will swing slightly more in favor of your army. However, with pure Maelstrom, it is in the luck of the draw. If you draw the right objectives and he draws the wrong ones, you can easily dominate Maelstrom (and vice versa).
5. You can easily kill his stalkers if you've got egrubs on your flyrants. However, they are not as high a priority to kill as his bikers. Focus on his bike squads 1 unit at a time. Only go for the stalkers if it is convenient (i.e. if they happen to be in your flyrant's flight paths), but if there are bikers to kill, I recommend you go after them instead.
6. Mawlocs are better here against biker armies and IMO, the better overall Take-All-Comer's unit. I recommend - if you have the models - to swapping out the dima for a mawloc + change (maybe a lictor).
7. If you play pure Maelstrom, then I recommend you go for the 1st turn. If you are playing Eternal War missions, then opt to go 2nd. Either ways, I think your army should have the resiliency to survive his alpha-strike if you go 2nd.
Mainly, you just need to practice against his army. There is no magic bullet or auto-win strategy against marine bikers. It's just a matter of getting experience and then using that experience to formulate a strategy against them. Yes, you will lose some in the beginning, but your list has what it takes to beat biker marines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 16:56:07
Game #2, I went up against Eldar with 5x5 Scatterbikes, 3x3 Hornets and Inquisition allies.
Game #3, I went up against Abusepuppy, who won the TSHFT GT earlier this year. He played Space Marines Battle Company with Eldar allies (4x3 Scatterbikes).
So far I am 3-0 on Day #1 and in the top 4.
Tomorrow is going to be really, really tough. My Game #4 opponent will be Alan "Pajamapants" Barajmovich, a multiple-GT winner, member of Team USA ETC and the top player currently after Day #1, on Table #1. If I can beat him, then I think I have a good shot at winning another major GT with Tyranids!
Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
Not really. Mucolids have Shroud and so if I place them in ruins, then I will have 5 guys with 2+ cover saves. They aren't going to all die at once.
And then my spore mines are a unit that I can easily hide to ensure that I don't get tabled.
BTW, the terrain at BAO is pretty top-notch. You can expect almost every table to have some type of LOS-blocking terrain and ruins symmetrically. Chances are really good that I will be able to count on decent terrain. Now that is what a good tournament should provide - good and fair terrain for all.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
It's not something you can rely on doing, more of if the opportunity and situation allows or requires it then you do it. If the table has no where to hide, you just wouldn't do it.
That's right, and if I have to, I will deploy 1 or even 2 mawlocs as well as flyrants if necessary. So if the opponent has, for example, 6 alpha-strike units, then I will deploy a total of 7 units (if terrain is bad) to ensure that at least 1 unit will survive.
Basically, deployment is very important but the Tyranids have what it takes to survive most alpha-strikes.
Well, regardless, good luck on the tournament Jim. I don't think the Hive Mind will be discouraged by your efforts. Who knows, maybe on the way home the 7th edition Tyranid codex will be release for preorder.
Thanks! And as long as I don't lose too badly my next 2 games, I think I will reach my goals. Tomorrow, I can potentially win the whole tournament if I get 2 more wins.
Hmm, good stuff! Glad to hear you're doing so well so far, and best of luck in your next game! It'd be great to see Nids bring home another GT win. By the way, are you bringing Nids or SM to the ATC this year?
Actually, something came up and I will no longer be going. As a matter of fact, our team disbanded.
Maybe next year.
Ah, this is quite a pity! But, I guess the road to best Nids just got slightly easier!
2015/07/15 21:24:31
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Game #2, I went up against Eldar with 5x5 Scatterbikes, 3x3 Hornets and Inquisition allies.
Game #3, I went up against Abusepuppy, who won the TSHFT GT earlier this year. He played Space Marines Battle Company with Eldar allies (4x3 Scatterbikes).
So far I am 3-0 on Day #1 and in the top 4.
Tomorrow is going to be really, really tough. My Game #4 opponent will be Alan "Pajamapants" Barajmovich, a multiple-GT winner, member of Team USA ETC and the top player currently after Day #1, on Table #1. If I can beat him, then I think I have a good shot at winning another major GT with Tyranids!
Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
Not really. Mucolids have Shroud and so if I place them in ruins, then I will have 5 guys with 2+ cover saves. They aren't going to all die at once.
And then my spore mines are a unit that I can easily hide to ensure that I don't get tabled.
BTW, the terrain at BAO is pretty top-notch. You can expect almost every table to have some type of LOS-blocking terrain and ruins symmetrically. Chances are really good that I will be able to count on decent terrain. Now that is what a good tournament should provide - good and fair terrain for all.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
It's not something you can rely on doing, more of if the opportunity and situation allows or requires it then you do it. If the table has no where to hide, you just wouldn't do it.
That's right, and if I have to, I will deploy 1 or even 2 mawlocs as well as flyrants if necessary. So if the opponent has, for example, 6 alpha-strike units, then I will deploy a total of 7 units (if terrain is bad) to ensure that at least 1 unit will survive.
Basically, deployment is very important but the Tyranids have what it takes to survive most alpha-strikes.
Well, regardless, good luck on the tournament Jim. I don't think the Hive Mind will be discouraged by your efforts. Who knows, maybe on the way home the 7th edition Tyranid codex will be release for preorder.
Thanks! And as long as I don't lose too badly my next 2 games, I think I will reach my goals. Tomorrow, I can potentially win the whole tournament if I get 2 more wins.
Hmm, good stuff! Glad to hear you're doing so well so far, and best of luck in your next game! It'd be great to see Nids bring home another GT win. By the way, are you bringing Nids or SM to the ATC this year?
Actually, something came up and I will no longer be going. As a matter of fact, our team disbanded.
Maybe next year.
Ah, this is quite a pity! But, I guess the road to best Nids just got slightly easier!
Originally, I was planning on bringing the Centstar so I guess your chances of winning best Bugs remain the same.
All of this waiting on a second Tervigon (Two failed to arrive from ebay, plus no stores in the area have them except GW) has given me time to consider space fillers, and I'm pondering 4 Lictors to really make the list diverse. (This is my Nova tournament list)
Using CAD + Leviathan Detachment:
3x Flyrants with Devourers and electroshock
1x Superbeast Flyrant w/Reaper of Oblit, ScyTal, Regeneration, Adrenal Glands, Ymgarl Factor, Old Adversary, Electroshockgrubs
1x Malanthrope
1x Tervigon
30x Termagant
3x Biovores
4x Lictors
3x Mucolids
The Lictors have a lot of use in the Nova style missions, and they up my small unit count. No reserve manipulation lets them come in later to grab objectives per turn. Thoughts?
Iechine wrote: All of this waiting on a second Tervigon (Two failed to arrive from ebay, plus no stores in the area have them except GW) has given me time to consider space fillers, and I'm pondering 4 Lictors to really make the list diverse. (This is my Nova tournament list)
Using CAD + Leviathan Detachment:
3x Flyrants with Devourers and electroshock
1x Superbeast Flyrant w/Reaper of Oblit, ScyTal, Regeneration, Adrenal Glands, Ymgarl Factor, Old Adversary, Electroshockgrubs
1x Malanthrope
1x Tervigon
30x Termagant
3x Biovores
4x Lictors
3x Mucolids
The Lictors have a lot of use in the Nova style missions, and they up my small unit count. No reserve manipulation lets them come in later to grab objectives per turn. Thoughts?
This list is just crying out for a Tyrannofex in a Pod. It needs it. Granted, I think every list needs a Tyrannofex in a Pod... but I think dropping an Anvil on an objective will help guide in that Flyrant Hammer you have personally. With no Rippers in the list though, some DS scoring is certainly needed, which the Lictors do fill... Hm. I do like the list, but I also have had better results with TFexen than Lictors.
2015/07/17 13:19:50
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Yeah, I personally love the TFex as a unit that can drop on an objective and very likely will not be shot off of it, plus he can flame the chaff away. Multiple Lictors can honestly achieve a similar goal though, as can Rippers.
2015/07/18 16:14:57
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Iechine wrote: All of this waiting on a second Tervigon (Two failed to arrive from ebay, plus no stores in the area have them except GW) has given me time to consider space fillers, and I'm pondering 4 Lictors to really make the list diverse. (This is my Nova tournament list)
Using CAD + Leviathan Detachment:
3x Flyrants with Devourers and electroshock
1x Superbeast Flyrant w/Reaper of Oblit, ScyTal, Regeneration, Adrenal Glands, Ymgarl Factor, Old Adversary, Electroshockgrubs
1x Malanthrope
1x Tervigon
30x Termagant
3x Biovores
4x Lictors
3x Mucolids
The Lictors have a lot of use in the Nova style missions, and they up my small unit count. No reserve manipulation lets them come in later to grab objectives per turn. Thoughts?
I wonder if we will get a nice formation for tervigons. I think I have 5 or so with around 400 termagants and hormagaunts to use for something other than display purposes or a lesson in futility for trying to paint 'em all.
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
2015/07/18 17:36:12
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Unyielding Hunger wrote: I wonder if we will get a nice formation for tervigons. I think I have 5 or so with around 400 termagants and hormagaunts to use for something other than display purposes or a lesson in futility for trying to paint 'em all.
Here's a home-brewed formation that you might like. Enjoy.
TERVIGON SPAWNING PIT
The tervigons in this formation are genetically modified to spawn termagants at an accelerated rate for the Tyranid war machine. These units are the "spawning factories" of the Hive Mind and are designed to rapidly and more reliably produce minor Tyranid creatures in a relatively short amount of time.
FORMATION:
2-5 Tervigons
1 unit of Termagants per Tervigon
RESTRICTIONS:
Each unit of Termagants in the formation must consist of 20-30 models.
SPECIAL RULES:
Objective Secured: A unit with this special rule controls Objective Markers even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the Objective Marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule.
Hyper Tervigons: Each tervigon in the formation may take 1 biomorph upgrade costing no more than 30-pts for free.
Spawning Pit: Any tervigon within 12" of another tervigon in the formation may re-roll 1 die when spawning termagants.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/07/18 17:37:50
It's not bad. Still, legal GW formation is best formation.
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
2015/07/18 20:24:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Yeah, you're probably right. I probably didn't add enough freebies to the formation. Knowing GW, they'll probably go something like this....for every tervigon you take, you can also take a flyrant for free or something like that.
jy2 wrote: Yeah, you're probably right. I probably didn't add enough freebies to the formation. Knowing GW, they'll probably go something like this....for every tervigon you take, you can also take a flyrant for free or something like that.
Hmm, sounds like it would be your next tournament list. But no. Tactically, tervigons are decent options, they just compete with things well above their weight. It seems to me that they need to bump it down to a simple troop choice, since the HQ section is dominated by our named characters as well as the standard tyrant, which makes sense. Reduce the tax to twenty and add in a decent point break while removing named options from their upgrade, and they would perhaps not be an autoinclude, but a good contender.
And no, the ultimate hilarity would not be free flyrants, but removing the wings as a option from a hive tyrant, and moving the winged option to the fast attack slot.
I just want the PoM back, as well as the removal of shrikes from fast attack in exchange for a wings option on the standard warrior and prime.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/18 20:45:49
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
2015/07/19 04:17:21
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Dozer Blades wrote: I wonder when Nidz will get something new. They already got plenty of love recently.
At the rate GW is going, and with no more Fantasy on the horizon, I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if Nids were to get an update before the end of the year. The only question is whether GW will continue to nerf them like they've traditionally done, or will Tyranids continue the trend of powerful armies that raises the bar with each new release.
I just hope in something that isn't Codex: Flyrants.
Also, if i'm allowed to dream i'd like to ask for the following:
3 Detachments
1 with lots of heavy slots and MC centered
1 with lots of elite and troops slots gribblies and warriors centered
1 with lots of FA to deploy a minefield/flyers detachment., Death from above style.
2015/07/19 16:58:45
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Spoletta wrote: I just hope in something that isn't Codex: Flyrants.
Also, if i'm allowed to dream i'd like to ask for the following:
3 Detachments
1 with lots of heavy slots and MC centered
I'm sure there will be some type of carnifex formation. What I'm hoping for is the formation where you take 3 trygons, they all come in on the same turn (i.e. just 1 die roll to bring in the entire formation) and they can assault on the turn they come in. That'll be really cool.
1 with lots of elite and troops slots gribblies and warriors centered
I'd be happy with an ObSec Endless Swarm formation! Or something similar to my tervigon formation above.
1 with lots of FA to deploy a minefield/flyers detachment., Death from above style.
What would be bad-a$$ would be an ObSec flyer formation who can score while in the air....but that's just wishful thinking.
Here I think we will still see Skyblight.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/19 16:59:53
Hive Fleet Grootslang 
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
