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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 zedmeister wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
Strength 5 is about right in comparison to HH,7th ed rule and similar weapon. The bigger volkite weapons have haywire rule, which all titans have immunity to.


These are bigger than the Carronade from the Glaive and that also had the Beam rule. Shame the Eradicator version doesn't have Beam as that is bigger than the Carronade but the Destructor does. Beam would at least make the smaller version a bit more interesting to take as the Voidbreaker rule as it stands is a bit naff.


Not the strangest mismatch about gu size and rules. Plasma Blastguns get blast but Sunfuries do not, as do the Acastus magna lascannons but not turbolasers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 11:38:25


 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Not the strangest mismatch about gun size and rules. Plasma Blastguns get blast but Sunfuries do not, as do the Acastus magna lascannons but not turbolasers.


I'd say the Acastus is the outlier here in that they buggered up the rules good and proper.



In other news, GW marketing doesn't give a gak/is completely clueless* as they appear to have highlighted the wrong weapon in the Volkite launch image:



It's like some marketdroids really dislike having to deal with those specialist games weirdos...



*delete as appropriate
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Halifax

I think it's moreso that talking to artists/graphic-design monkeys is really hard. They don't do words, which is why they do pictures or graphic design. I've found the most effective way is to draw them a picture, and have them copy it. Like in this case I would have taken the picture and circled the weapons in MS Paint.

   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

It just serves to make my point, gw needs to hire someone for AT that gives a damn, but instead they're hiring paralegals to search the internet to send scary cease and desist letters to people offering free 3d model files.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




Adeptus titanicus the miniature game happen in an alternate universe where flamer melt titans and the vulcan mega bolter on the arioch fist is for decorative purpose.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Chopstick wrote:
Adeptus titanicus the miniature game happen in an alternate universe where flamer melt titans and the vulcan mega bolter on the arioch fist is for decorative purpose.


Ya, they should just have that as an upgrade to the fist but then they'd have to make the card.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Halifax

Presumably you could make your own cards too.

   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







It is my understanding that flamers are traditionally good in Battletech clones because the game is about heat management.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Halifax

That and nothing works particularly well when it's on fire.

   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




This is not battletech, inferno cannon and the smaller acheron flame cannon is strictly anti-infantry and is completely useless against titan armor.

Pure writer's fantasy, no explanation about the invention of miraculous titan melting fuel, normally such huge evolution of technologies like this deserve new variation and design for the weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 01:07:09


 
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Chopstick wrote:


Pure writer's fantasy

As opposed to everything else that's solidly grounded in physics??
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

JWBS wrote:
Chopstick wrote:


Pure writer's fantasy

As opposed to everything else that's solidly grounded in physics??


I'll have you know the gun that shoots screaming warp hell on that Nemesis Titan is completely based in actual physical reality.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

Yeah, if Titans themselves are not too far fetched, ridiculous fuel(doesn't even have to be heat based, could be purely chemical reaction of the liquid and armour, plenty of acids creat a great deal of heat during oxidation, etc) isn't out of the realm of "possibility".
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






It doesnt have to melt the armor either, but flaming liquid can get into gaps and vents, melt wiring, ect. We know Titans can withstand a virus bombardment, but they have to specifically seal themselves up to do it
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




At S7 titan armor actually melt, that's the same strength as destroyer class reaper chainsword, which is used to cut through titan and thick super-heavy tank plating.

Land raider in the AT-verse will be fried in second against miracle flamer. While in the main 40k HH/7th and below ed universe the weapon is completely useless.vs Land raider.

Actually just use Questoris knight as example, normally they would last several rounds even when hit in the rear, but not here.

Problem easily addressed with simple note or new design/variations, but that'd mean people who worked on the game has to give a hoot.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/09 05:04:45


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

The point about oxidation and heat is a good one, it might not be the flame that kills a titan, it might be the heat it generates if its targets core is already on the edge of blowing up.

Also, without factoring in any damage, being literally on fire probably messes with a lot of the instrumentation from the crews perspective. Also, the heat would mess up IR targetting and also make the titan a massive target in IR for other titans or planes/tanks.

I can agree the rules in game are pretty bad, they should have the ability to on a dice roll cause heat pips or something.




On the volkite side I feel like if they just fixed voidbraker it might help enough. The other unspoken problem with AT is on the weapon side the points don't have a lot of room to breath at the lower end of things. With the warlord there's a big spread in terms of what a weapon might cost but on a warhound or reaver a lot fall into the 10-25pt range, vulcan mega bolters are a steal at this price. Volkite has to compete with better options and right now the only silver lining I'm seeing on the warhound volkite front is "maybe I'll take a volkite just to make it easier to tell warhounds apart". Really wishing there was a more compelling reason other than it looks cool.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 15:08:17


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Yeah, flamers need a heat scale rule; how about if they manage do do a devastating hit or better advance the target’s reactor one space.

Then we can even have room for more advanced/experimental weapons that instead of advancing the reactor, push it instead.

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Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

I don't think AT is for the kind of person who gets bent out of shape over the realism/details of flame weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 17:47:28


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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yeah, flamers need a heat scale rule; how about if they manage do do a devastating hit or better advance the target’s reactor one space.

Then we can even have room for more advanced/experimental weapons that instead of advancing the reactor, push it instead.


Maybe if you roll like multiple 6's on damage it does a pip of heat


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gorgon wrote:
I don't think AT is for the kind of person who gets bent out of shape over the realism/details of flame weapons.


The rules could be more interesting/better though, in home brew terrain rules we left flame weapons remove scatter terrain/ruins if the template is over when attacking another unit, gives them something.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/09 18:09:49


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Regarding melting landraiders with flamers, you aren't really melting the tank you're just cooking the crew (imo), as happened in WW2 etc when they flamed tanks.
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




People keep bringing their own science + realism insead of actual 40k lore + rules is mind boggling, The crew,and the land raider and survived for decade in every other setting, and the weapons has always been marked to be used for anti-infantry. Not for super heavy unit and titans.

Lore say they're for infantry, but in my fantasy they're super effective vs Titans, my fantasy > lore and that guy who established them decade ago.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/10 01:45:26


 
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





The big flamers haven't been around for decades. If you're talking about hand flamers I can see why you might be boggled out of your little box but idk why you'd be talking about hand flamers, we are talking about Acheron flame cannons here at an absolute minimum, and they haven't been around decades and there's no reason they shouldn't be able to fk up a land raider.
   
Made in jp
Bounding Assault Marine




Stuck in the snow.

So I've made it a point to read every Knight themed novel that GW has put out and fire/heat management absolutely do come up.

I don't remember the specific instances but there are a couple references to pilots becoming mildly fatigued just from ambient heat that starts baking them in their cockpit (even with AC).

The Knights of the Imperium novel even has a specific incident where a massive fuel tanker is detonated in a tunnel which cooks off physical ammo (detonating knight limbs) and leaves pilots with burn injuries where they are in contact with metallic parts of their cabin.

Edit: And yes I realize those are Knights not Titans, but I think a large and focused enough heat source could have the possibility to turn a titan head into an oven or cook off macrocannon shells.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/10 03:52:26


 
   
Made in nz
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker



New Zealand

If - IRL - battleships during the world wars were concerned about the danger of catching on fire. So in 40k Titans should also.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

Everything carrying flammable stuff(either made from or tertiary) should be concerned about being on fire.
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




Removed- ingtær

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/10 17:40:39


 
   
Made in au
Novice Knight Errant Pilot





Ipswich, Australia

So, um, hey...what about any...you know...actual News or Rumors?

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Padre wrote:
So, um, hey...what about any...you know...actual News or Rumors?


Don't think there will be anything new till the volkites ship and we can confirm the cards are the same as the previewed rules.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Removed - ingtær.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/10 17:22:12


 
   
Made in gb
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot



Wrexham, North Wales

 Crablezworth wrote:
 Padre wrote:
So, um, hey...what about any...you know...actual News or Rumors?


Don't think there will be anything new till the volkites ship and we can confirm the cards are the same as the previewed rules.


Yeah - The Specialist Games Department is probably focusing on Space Marine and Eldar Aeronautica teases. Sometimes we get lucky and a 'real' preview turns up in an Engine Kill article but I'm not sure we will see one soon. The next real tease is probably going to be Corrupted Titans... but you never know.
   
 
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