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Marshal Loss wrote: It'll cost at least as much as the Age of Darkness box, and has roughly the same amount of plastic in it (so probably minimum $523 AUD, though we have plenty of retailers where you can get 20-25% off).
If it comes in anywhere remotely what the AoD box costs, I'll be shocked.
I'll not be shocked however if this one caps $600. I'm expecting the Liber's to jump to the $110/120 mark as well.
I'm confident it will be reasonably consistent with what Age of Darkness costs actually, given it's the entry point to the system, but I guess we'll see soon enough.
MajorWesJanson wrote: There are 4 crew models, and both art pics are of a pair of similar rapiers, so I am thinking that each box will be 2 rapier carriages that can build 2 of the same or one of each of the two options listed. Cant be positive, but going by these:
Unfortunately I think this puts paid to that hope.
WarCom wrote:The Rapier is similar, providing Legion forces with a mobile heavy weapon or light artillery support. There are two new plastic kits on the way – one with a graviton or quad-bolter option, and one with a quad-launcher or laser-destroyer. Whatever you’re shooting, there is a Rapier for the job!
Marshal Loss wrote: It'll cost at least as much as the Age of Darkness box, and has roughly the same amount of plastic in it (so probably minimum $523 AUD, though we have plenty of retailers where you can get 20-25% off).
If it comes in anywhere remotely what the AoD box costs, I'll be shocked.
I'll not be shocked however if this one caps $600. I'm expecting the Liber's to jump to the $110/120 mark as well.
Surely that means there is the option for two of each.
If there were just one of each it wouldn't use the word option.
Didn't you recently share that you haven't played any GW games since, like, 2012 or 2016 or something?
It's easy to be optimistic when you have no skin in the game, other than a distant sense of aesthetic appreciation for rulesets and/or an aspirational approach to playing that will never come to fruition.
Btw this is not a condemnation of you not playing while remaining engaged with the hobby. I am also in that situation, and only consider myself a semi-active player of Kill Team and Necromunda. But I am not all over every page of every discussion about new rules.
I did mention somewhere that my lack of current rules experience kinda insulates me, and encourages me to get going with this one. Essentially, with the sort of changes we’re seeing, the playing field is more level for those getting started or restarted.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Ah hang on a sec. Looking back I definitely misread what MWJ said here.
MajorWesJanson wrote: There are 4 crew models, and both art pics are of a pair of similar rapiers, so I am thinking that each box will be 2 rapier carriages that can build 2 of the same or one of each of the two options listed. Cant be positive, but going by these:
and I also wasn't super clear what I was trying to convey in my initial post.
My gripe was that they've split the kits into Heavy Bolter/Graviton and Quad Mortar/Laser Destroyer, rather then the more logical (to me at least) Bolter/Mortar and Graviton/Laser. And that realistically a kit should come with all the options as would be most sensible.
I didn't mean to imply that a kit would only come with 2 carriages and only 1 heavy bolter and 1 graviton, etc. which I think may have been the take away from my post.
Sorry everyone, that bout of literary confusion is on me!
My gripe was that they've split the kits into Heavy Bolter/Graviton and Quad Mortar/Laser Destroyer, rather then the more logical (to me at least) Bolter/Mortar and Graviton/Laser. And that realistically a kit should come with all the options as would be most sensible.
It could simply be that these weapon pairs filled the sprues more evenly.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I did mention somewhere that my lack of current rules experience kinda insulates me, and encourages me to get going with this one. Essentially, with the sort of changes we’re seeing, the playing field is more level for those getting started or restarted.
Re: Rules? The more time passes, the fonder I am of the Battletech approach to those things, with changes so minimal that someone who hasn't played since the 80s can peruse any new book and get going right away.
That, for me, is a much, MUCH better approach both "for those getting started or restarted", and also for anyone actively playing now.
But that's just me.
...and I guess that doesn't drive book sales quite so much, of course.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/05/24 09:24:45
Swings and roundabouts. A lot of it depends on an opponent not just NooB Stomping.
My first experience of Warmachine? NooB Stomped, never went back.
My first experience of X-Wing? Dice utterly betrayed me, but opponent took me through it and did what they could to show the game off to its best.
My recent 2nd Ed Heresy Game? Made it clear I’m still learning the ropes. Opponent brought a beardy army, and I didn’t enjoy the experience, but no Rules Gotchas, so that’s good.
3rd Ed Heresy? Figure if I get in at the ground floor, most will be learning the new ropes, giving opportunity for a better bonding and that.
Part of my frustration there is I used to be a pretty decent player. Doubt I’d place well in a tournament like, but I knew the rules and some tricks. To find oneself at square one is a very odd experience, as I’m constantly telling myself I know the game better than I actually do.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/05/24 09:28:39
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
In 40k this also came bundled with the loss of damage tables (which would be pretty schizophrenic for an edition that introduces 4 variants of pinning infantry) and loss of fire arcs (leading to the loss of meaningful positioning).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another thing I didn't catch yesterday is the first Campaign Journal is dropping together with the box, so we have day 1 DLC.
Heresy might be getting on the most brutal tier of rules treadmills of all specialist games.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actual rules snippet
We can infer that reactions exist that cost more then 1 reaction point.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2025/05/24 10:32:11
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
lost_lilliputian wrote: What I'm interested in though is the price. What does one expect a big box like this with 50 new miniatures Plus whopping 352 page hardback book & extras to retail for?
Then what do you expect the plastic super heavy tanks to go for? Considering every week the cost of living goes up too!
There's a part of me that's very tempted to think this box all painted as the same faction plus a tank or two and tarantulas or rapiers etc might be enough for an army. Is that wishful thinking?
It'll cost at least as much as the Age of Darkness box, and has roughly the same amount of plastic in it (so probably minimum $523 AUD, though we have plenty of retailers where you can get 20-25% off).
Hard to estimate points costs when the game is being rebalanced, but the existing starter box is not far under 2000 points, when HH games normally range in size from 2000 to 3500 points. Add a few things to the Saturnine box and you'll definitely have the core of an army. It's great value, but still a hefty buy-in
Thank you for the info, especially in Aus
Certainly is a hefty buy in. I have fears the box will be between $600 - $700 Aus and by the time 2 to 3 other kit releases are bought will be about $1k but if a super heavy tank is purchased will definitely crack $1k. All quality? Not entirely sure, I mean it looks great but how it plays is another thing. Oh well fingers crossed it's not too expensive lol.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I did mention somewhere that my lack of current rules experience kinda insulates me, and encourages me to get going with this one. Essentially, with the sort of changes we’re seeing, the playing field is more level for those getting started or restarted.
Re: Rules? The more time passes, the fonder I am of the Battletech approach to those things, with changes so minimal that someone who hasn't played since the 80s can peruse any new book and get going right away.
That, for me, is a much, MUCH better approach both "for those getting started or restarted", and also for anyone actively playing now.
But that's just me.
...and I guess that doesn't drive book sales quite so much, of course.
Agreed. And you hit the proverbial nail on the head as to why gw insist on reinventing the perfectly fine wheel time after time: invalidate current books-sell more books. It's offensive, and why so many people have checked out.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Agreed. And you hit the proverbial nail on the head as to why gw insist on reinventing the perfectly fine wheel time after time: invalidate current books-sell more books. It's offensive, and why so many people have checked out.
There's another reason. With the cycle being so fast, they don't have to work very hard on balance. Your faction is weak? It's only 3 years until you spin the wheel again. You probably won't even finish painting this box before the edition is done. Maybe you won't even get a game in.
With them refreshing all factions at once this time, you can be sure most units didn't see even a single playtest game. I don't think any company could balance this much stuff internally. When Warmachine tried it it was also a complete gakshow.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/05/24 11:01:16
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
It also helps selling the next Edition, because there is no one who than really happy with the by than current version and looks forward to anything new, happily buying into it because it just can get better.
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I did mention somewhere that my lack of current rules experience kinda insulates me, and encourages me to get going with this one. Essentially, with the sort of changes we’re seeing, the playing field is more level for those getting started or restarted.
Re: Rules? The more time passes, the fonder I am of the Battletech approach to those things, with changes so minimal that someone who hasn't played since the 80s can peruse any new book and get going right away.
That, for me, is a much, MUCH better approach both "for those getting started or restarted", and also for anyone actively playing now.
But that's just me.
...and I guess that doesn't drive book sales quite so much, of course.
Agreed. And you hit the proverbial nail on the head as to why gw insist on reinventing the perfectly fine wheel time after time: invalidate current books-sell more books. It's offensive, and why so many people have checked out.
Sadly, their model remains obscenely profitable to the point that even IGN is reporting on their financial success:
Gadzilla666 wrote: Agreed. And you hit the proverbial nail on the head as to why gw insist on reinventing the perfectly fine wheel time after time: invalidate current books-sell more books. It's offensive, and why so many people have checked out.
There's another reason. With the cycle being so fast, they don't have to work very hard on balance. Your faction is weak? It's only 3 years until you spin the wheel again. You probably won't even finish painting this box before the edition is done. Maybe you won't even get a game in.
With them refreshing all factions at once this time, you can be sure most units didn't see even a single playtest game. I don't think any company could balance this much stuff internally. When Warmachine tried it it was also a complete gakshow.
Point. Just release a new edition instead of balancing the current one. Sell more books. Again: offensive.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I did mention somewhere that my lack of current rules experience kinda insulates me, and encourages me to get going with this one. Essentially, with the sort of changes we’re seeing, the playing field is more level for those getting started or restarted.
Re: Rules? The more time passes, the fonder I am of the Battletech approach to those things, with changes so minimal that someone who hasn't played since the 80s can peruse any new book and get going right away.
That, for me, is a much, MUCH better approach both "for those getting started or restarted", and also for anyone actively playing now.
But that's just me.
...and I guess that doesn't drive book sales quite so much, of course.
Agreed. And you hit the proverbial nail on the head as to why gw insist on reinventing the perfectly fine wheel time after time: invalidate current books-sell more books. It's offensive, and why so many people have checked out.
Sadly, their model remains obscenely profitable to the point that even IGN is reporting on their financial success:
So, maybe it's time to make that model less profitable? No more books. No more new editions. Stick to the ones we have. Balance them with our communities.
won't work
everyone who doesn't want to buy but still play will just pirate the rules and models
therefore any other but the current version of the game doesn't have a chance
and if it really happens that everyone would stopp playing, GW would just kill it off completely and replace it with a fancy new game everyone will pick up because this time it will be better
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
Incidentally? I might gripe about GW's prices, practices and other stuff, but that is excellent and something I'd love to see more companies doing.
Off the back of those huge profits, and “in recognition of our staff’s contribution to these results,” Games Workshop is giving employees £20 million, up from the £18 million it handed out last year. The money will be paid on an equal basis to each member of staff. Games Workshop is estimated to have around 1,500 staff. If that’s accurate, it means each employee is set for a £13,333 (approx $18,000) bonus.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/05/24 12:22:39
As an outlier in 40k/30k land (as I don't really play the major factions, and my favorite game to play is AT),
I honestly don't understand a lot of the mental pain that is being caused to players by the release of this new edition, which in my mind should be a joyous event with all sorts of birthday present anticipation, not trepidation.
Is it because the release of this new edition is so close to the old one and invalidates the money spent on expensive rulebooks?
Or is it, because a complete rules overhaul feels unnecessary, when a Necromunda-esque rules cleanup would've sufficed?
Or is there something else, that I'm just not seeing?
BorderCountess wrote: Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
It's the first two things you mentioned - a 3 year lifespan on expensive hard back rulebooks you bought does not feel good. Rule changes that add bloat to an already complex game will always be controversial.
And I think the fanbase for Heresy skews older, perhaps with less frequent games. So people might have only played the new edition a dozen or so times before the reset.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Is it because the release of this new edition is so close to the old one and invalidates the money spent on expensive rulebooks?
Or is it, because a complete rules overhaul feels unnecessary, when a Necromunda-esque rules cleanup would've sufficed?
Yes. The ONLY good news is that most armies will have their rules right out of the gate, and so will be valid for the whole edition. Compare that to, say, 40k, where it takes 2.5 years* to get through the slow-drip of codex releases, which leaves certain armies playing with an actual book for a depressingly short period of time (think Guard and World Eaters at the end of 9th).
*I get that there's a HUGE difference in quantity, but it still feels bad.
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
kodos wrote: won't work
everyone who doesn't want to buy but still play will just pirate the rules and models
therefore any other but the current version of the game doesn't have a chance
and if it really happens that everyone would stopp playing, GW would just kill it off completely and replace it with a fancy new game everyone will pick up because this time it will be better
No illegal pirating required. Just play with your old books rules. House rule whatever you want as befits your group. How hard is that?
