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A very quick Q & A from the latest youngwhippsnapper of an author to work for Bl and have great sales.. riding high in the Amazon charts..and well deserved it is too.

Just a quick update on my lunch break to answer some questions that winged their way to my eyes and ears recently, mostly regarding the Night Lords series. These are an amalgamation of jazz from various recent signings (Games Day, as well as Dublin and Belfast), my forum inboxes, my Facebook inbox, and junk from the forum spread that I can’t resist visiting.

Spoilers kept to a minimum – or at the very least, no stronger than those in ‘The Core’.



•“Who are the new characters in Blood Reaver?”
Blood Reaver features a few new major and minor players in the series. These are (in no particular order): Lucoryphus of the Bleeding Eyes, Variel the Flayer, Nonus, and Hound. Some of those you’ll know from their teasers in ‘The Core’, others you’ll have to guess.



•“Is Blood Reaver about Uzas, the way Soul Hunter was about Talos?”
Naw. Here’s the thing.

The Blood Reaver is one of the many titles used by Huron Blackheart, probably because his name is a bit silly and he’s shy about it. Blood Reaver (the novel, not the guy) still features Talos as the primary protagonist, but he’s slowly changing from his desperately lost passivity in Soul Hunter. This is where he starts to realise that just surviving might not be enough in the Long War. With everything degenerating around the crew of the Covenant of Blood, perhaps it’s time to fight back or just accept defeat. Even though he has no desire for leadership, others in the Legion look to him for guidance, and it’s much harder to claim “Guys, I’m not Malcharion’s heir, honestly” when he’s actually carrying the war-sage’s bolter.

Time to nut up or shut up, you know?

Beyond that, the others in First Claw do show up a little more. Uzas, Xarl, Cyrion and Mercutian get a lot more screen time, as does Variel (obviously, because in Blood Reaver we see how he joins First Claw in the first place).



•“I read on Forum X that one of First Claw dies in Blood Reaver.”
No, cupcake. You read that in one of the middle chapters, I accidentally killed one of them while indulging in a side-plot, and subsequently rewrote the entire chapter because it was stupid and irrelevant. (You’re starting to see why this novel is late, right?) I’d never give a spoiler that a character actually died – that would be ball-achingly lame.

That said, it’s war. Soldiers die in war. That’s what makes it a war, and not a particularly immersive game of Lazer Tag.



•“What is the Exalted? A Daemon Prince? A Possessed? A Chaos Lord close to Spawnhood?”
This gets explored a little more in Blood Reaver, actually.

Seriously, as much as I cleave to the background as described in the codices, you’ve got to realise that the game’s rules don’t always represent the lore all that well. Chaos doesn’t just touch people and say “You’re X, you’re Y, you’re Z.” It’s Chaos. It’s chaotic. Chaos would infuse its victi– uh, its followers with whatever the hell it wanted. Most Chaos Gifts wouldn’t fit neatly into the army lists in the back of a codex, like.

That said, I can shed some light on this. Vandred (the VIII Legion 10th Captain) is a lesser consciousness in the creature that is now The Exalted. Cyrion knows this – he comments on it in Soul Hunter. So the Exalted is something like a Daemon Prince in that he’s been, uh, promoted like they have. But with his ascension came possession, like one of the weaker “battlefield” Possessed. In short, he’s either a Daemon Prince that doesn’t fight the way most others do, or he’s a really, really powerful Possessed. Both are true. Or neither. I don’t care, leave me alone.



•“Why do you always say ‘Astartes’ in your novels?”
Because I hate the way “Space Marines” sounds.

They’re post-humans. They’re technically a different subspecies, vaguely similar to the way a mule is different from a horse or a donkey, but has bits of both. They’re Homo Astartes (stop laughing, you at the back), not Homo Sapiens.

“Space Marines” connotes something very lame, very generic, to me. “Astartes” doesn’t.



•“Why does Talos dream about the Eldar? / Will the Eldar prophecies feature in the third novel?”
Okay.

I’ve been open and up front since the beginning on this one. The trilogy has a very distinct focus, split by both physical and the mental considerations. Mentally, the storyline is about facing up to responsibility in the face of temptation, vengeance, corruption, loneliness – or some combination of all four. All of the characters face that to some degree; it’s intrinsic to the whole deal. But physically, the narrative is about getting back to the Eye of Terror alive, albeit in a roundabout way, after the Legion wears out its welcome in Imperial space.

The third novel, probably called Void Stalker, is about the final stretch on the road home. At the end of Soul Hunter (and throughout Blood Reaver) Talos suffers increasingly violent premonitions about the Eldar. If you’d not already guessed they’d be fighting the Eldar at some point, then frankly, I suck at my job. But whatever.

The Night Lords have their sanctuary in sight by the end of the series. But what orbits the Eye of Terror? What colossal, half-ruined remnant of a fallen empire might just be in the way of them reaching home?

Exactly. Craftworld Ulthwe.



•“If Talos is the Soul Hunter, Huron is the Blood Reaver, who’s the Void Stalker?”
Your mum.

I’m not telling you, stop asking. Just wait a year and a half.



•“Why do the Night Lords eat other Astartes’ gene-seed?”
For a few reasons, and none of them nice.

Firstly, it’s the threat of cannibalistic desecration. When you’re fighting other Astartes (an enemy that can’t feel fear) the best you can do is let them know that if they lose, you’re going to do some absolutely horrible things to their dead bodies. It might buy you a second’s distraction.

Secondly, it’s not an idle threat. It’s a vicious way of ensuring that your enemy knows his death will never serve his Chapter. Think about it this way: Astartes aren’t just warriors, they’re also incubators for progenoid glands – they carry the “seed” necessary to make the next generation, just in a sterile and sexless way compared to humans. By threatening to eat to eat an Astartes’ progenoid organs, you’re removing a massive piece of his legacy in the Chapter, as well as harming the Chapter’s future. You don’t just kill the warrior, you deny the creation of any others that would’ve followed in an unbroken genetic line.

Thirdly, Talos was an Apothecary. When he makes the threat, it’s something that shows the absolute depths of his hatred for the Imperium – and, by that virtue, everything that he once was.

And lastly, because of this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#Omophagea

http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/recent-night-lords-series-questions/

Glad to see an author utilising some of the more..esoteric..marine abilities, I particulary enjoyed the use of this by Mr. Kyme in his Black reach novella.

Holy.. gak.. that is just awesome. Not the basic thing of eating to know thy enemy, but as a form of terror.

edit.

Graham did the same in that Ultras novel where he has snooty sergeant eat the brains of a Tau scout. I can't remember names right now, flu be damned.

That particular ability seems to be making a comeback!

It was also utilized by the Raven Guard in THE HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS too...

I'm guessing they want to make Astartes awesome again and not knights in shining armour with raised pinkies.

See, I liked A-D-B's books, now I like him too.

Seems to be a very likable, witty and out-going dude who just so happens to write some great novels. I'm gonna have to re-read Soul-Hunter, but I can't wait for his next work.

Thanks Reds8n.

Question from me would be:
Why is Talos made so ridiculously overpowered so that when I read a novel with Talos in it I can rest assured that no matter what happens he will always end up defeating a n y t h i n g without breaking a sweat?
Half the suspense is killed in knowing that the main character(s) are untouchables.

ADB should learn from writers like Kyme when it comes to character suspense.

Could be worse, Sandy has this in droves. Both with his Cain and Dark Heresy novels really.

True, although I see the Cain novels as partially pure humor and thus allow for the glorification of poor scared Caine.

The absolute worst author in regards to this lame phenomenon must be A. Reynolds with the word bearer novels.
Those combine a worse disregard for fluff then Swallows Blood Angel novels and worse character suspense killing and disproportional power levels then ADB displays.

Are they really not going to have a US based page for digital books? I'm pretty sure it's one of the larger reading markets for ereaders at this point so it would only make sense. As it stands it's significantly more expensive to buy an ebook than a paperback in my local B&N. Makes me sad. I can take an extra buck for certain authors like Jim Butcher, David Weber, or Eric Flint. But asking me to pay more for what equates to our version of trashy romance novels just doesn't work for me. Pity, would have been nice to have them available to read all at ounce. I would have loved to have all of Gaunts Ghosts, The Horus Heresy, or Gotrek novels to read in a row. Oh well...

Seems strange that if they already have them converted to ePub or Mobi that they don't just release them to B&N or Amamzon.
I bet they would make more that way than just selling them from their own site. Not to mention saving in bandwidth and tech support...

Selling through others would result in them making less of a profit.

I don't think most people State-side are going to be willing to pay nearly $10 a paperback before the charge for the conversion. That's pretty harsh as I have problems wanting to pay more than $7-8. That's only a dollar less than they sell "hardbacks" for on a nook or kindle. If they just sold them via amazon/b&n for $9 most people would probably be cool with it. But 10+conversion falls into the silly category for me.

Pyriel- wrote:Question from me would be:
Why is Talos made so ridiculously overpowered so that when I read a novel with Talos in it I can rest assured that no matter what happens he will always end up defeating a n y t h i n g without breaking a sweat?

And my answer would be the same as the last time you said that nonsense about me. "You're wrong, and here's why." In fact, I'll just restate it:


"

Pyriel- wrote:

1) I don't think he really likes Loyalist Marines. Traitor Marines, yes. Loyal, no.

So true, he kills of dozens of loyalists for every traitor...

"This is beyond exaggeration and balls-deep into lying, sorry. You're thinking, I assume, of the one time any Night Lords met Blood Angels, in Soul Hunter? And that was against half a Tactical Squad and a Dreadnought. So, y'know, get it right, yo. As for them "killing a Titan" it becomes much easier to understand when it's only a Warhound, and they had , too.

But by all means, keep making stuff up."

--- --- ---

No offence, guy. I mean, you have an axe to grind and I can respect that. I have plenty, too. Christ, do I ever hate Star Trek...

But I tend to, like, go after stuff that I know I'm right about, rather than flail blindly and lie. If you genuinely think that character is overpowered, then I recommend you read, uh, absolutely any other Space Marine novel published by the Black Library, to see examples of characters much more powerful, surviving much more difficult situations, with much less effort.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Dave wrote:See, I liked A-D-B's books, now I like him too.

Seems to be a very likable, witty and out-going dude who just so happens to write some great novels. I'm gonna have to re-read Soul-Hunter, but I can't wait for his next work.

Thanks Reds8n.

I'm not likeable, trust me. I am a fountain of loathing and disgu-- Hot damn, is that a Monkey Island avatar? Dude. That's freaking killer.

BrookM wrote:Selling through others would result in them making less of a profit.

But it would be much more than not selling them at all.

Dead Blue Clown wrote:

Just Dave wrote:See, I liked A-D-B's books, now I like him too.

Seems to be a very likable, witty and out-going dude who just so happens to write some great novels. I'm gonna have to re-read Soul-Hunter, but I can't wait for his next work.

Thanks Reds8n.

I'm not likeable, trust me. I am a fountain of loathing and disgu-- Hot damn, is that a Monkey Island avatar? Dude. That's freaking killer.

You may well be a fountain of loathing, disgu-- (ust) and an awfully long name, however you are officially likeable in my books considering you are a Monkey Island fan and the first to comment on said avatar. Also, Space Marines/Cannibalism. Obviously copied from the fruit-faced dudes off monkey Island. Obviously. I see it. *shifty eyes*

I've lurked here for ages, but was reluctant to add it to the list of forums I already post on. However, Pyriel annoyed me enough to break that trend.

Cool, we annoy the crap of each others so it seems.

And in a fight with even numbers, and with the Night Lords in ambush, with the home court advantage, they still barely won. Two guys were practically crippled, another guy could barely move at all, one was dead, and the dreadnought (who was the other reason they had psychological advantage, because he'd killed the Blood Angel dreadnought in life) was slain.

They still barely won?

2 got crippled while almost half a company blood angels including their dreadnought and scout support got completely wasted.
*laughs*

Hope they executed that BA captain for the biggest incompetence in the galaxy, he if anyone should have known how boarding action is to be waged against fellow astartes but instead he instant-wasted the lives of all of his company. Poor Dante must have gotten a really big headache after reading that report.
Imo that was a very bad way of solving a problem in the novel. It could have been done so much better and also belivable to add.

But by all means, keep dreaming this "barely won" rubbish up, if you believe in it that´s your problem.

But I tend to, like, go after stuff that I know I'm right about, rather than flail blindly and lie. If you genuinely think that character is overpowered, then I recommend you read, uh, absolutely any other Space Marine novel published by the Black Library, to see examples of characters much more powerful, surviving much more difficult situations, with much less effort.

Not quite true here although if you will notice I´m not calling you an outright lier just because you got your facts twisted.

Most novels dont deal with a mass killing, untouchable, ever powerful, super character with absolutely no martial flaws.
The soul hunter novels fall into the lower echelons when it comes to power level abusement but more novels then not fall in the more balanced category.

Whole of the horus heresy series you really bite your nails since nothing is certain except the main villains that are bound to live (by GWs canon fluff).
You have Grahams works, I can never be sure how they end and despite the main character is almost bound to survive he does get his behind severly kicked in all sorts of melee while his side kick is never a certain card when it comes to survival.

Kymes novels are the absolute best when it comes to this, an important characteris wearing a terminator armour? doesnt need to mean anything, he can easily die.
This is called suspense.

Neither of these including the space wolf novels are about an untouchable superman marine with his unkillable mini squad in heels wading through titans, enemy companies and god knows what other horrors with the nastiest thing ever happening to them is loosing a leg.

Having pure crap like Reynolds word bearer trilogy is another matter, I´m not comparing the last soul hunter novel to them, it is far far superior in every way except for a bit of that untouchable we-always-win thing but even this is far from up to Reynolds levels. His there the three main characters NEVER die, NEVER lose and can NEVER, ever be beaten in combat.
The books are so predictable that if the word bearers were to kill the Emperor of mankind himself they would only need the three main characters to do it. One kills of every custodian, one plans it all and the third offs the emperor, easy like peanuts and done before the afternoon tea.

The first soul hunter novel was a marvel imo, a true suspense book with tons and tons of character, character creation and I could never quite feel "safe" in having the main character surviving or not.
I read it in one long go and almost screamed for more

The last soul hunter novel is a disappointment simply for the reason the above is watered down so much with blatant favoritism. Sure there is a very good character build and the fluff is wonderful but thee are the only two reasons I will even consider buying and reading a follow up novel because as soon as combat is touched it becomes apparent what a propaganda boost the novel is towards the soul hunter and his invincible squad.
Not even the squad member that lost in melee vs that blood angel was allowed to die of since tataaa, soul hunter and his final fantasy magical sword of utter victory just had to show up and massacre all the BAs like there was no tomorrow...oh sorry, I forgot, they "barely won having lost an entire two marines against what was it again 40-50?.
lol

As for taking care of titans the novel left me with one gigantic question.
How come Abbaddon, the conquering genius he is, didnt realize the super potential of having the 10 or so night lords annihilate entire titan legions?
I mean all that is missing are a couple of under equipped thunderhawks and some landraiders, surely a landraider and one night lord is a superb tradeof for an imperial titam.
I´d do it any given day.

Have you read Kymes short novel about the salamanders terminators boarding the same space hulk as the night lords? There is suspense in spades, you could never know who would end up dead.

Having read the same short novel from the night lords perspective all I could say to myself was that the salmanders terminator squad were SO lucky that they didnt stumble upon a lone soul hunter and his mini team of invincibles in the corridors, they would stand as much chance as ice cream in hell.

If a novel leaves you with this kind of expectations afterwards then something is clearly wrong.
Why does it do that then, that is if you want to know instead of just laugh all critique away like someone who cant take it?
Well, "maybe" because all they ever do is win, every engagement is a victory, a setback is immediately countered with bounty that more then makes up any little loss.
In the end the reader is expecting nothing else then a walkover against whatever main problem the characters are faced with.
Soul hunter meets titan = win!
Soul hunter meets black legion = win!
Soul hunter meets lack of materiel for hi super ship = vision = instant win!
Soul hunter meets the Salamanders = win!
Soul hunter meets the blood angels = epic win!
Soul Hunter meets internal strife on ship = Win!

What´s next? Soul hunter meets the emperor and his custodian guard = win again?

You see in the end when I read further and further I´m just left with Soul hunter meets X = *yawn* A win? Who would have thought. *yawn*
There is no setback, no major loss, no fails, no struggle that leads to dead ends and forces another path, no instances other then walkover wins.

ADB last novel is far from there but he clearly displays the kind of balance flaws in his writing that Reynolds swims in which is rather sad imo since I love the non combat (power balance) side of ADBs novels.


Helsreach was superb, no overdoing any characters power levels and this simple fact alone accounted for a wholly different experience for me.
As a final word, I dont care how much you call me a liar or claim that combat in ADBs latest SH novel are fair (lol), as long as you think loosing two marines while massacring half a company in return is equal to "barely won" then sorry but I simply cannot take you any serious.
If you feel so annoyed then ask why I feel so rather then go sandbox on me acting like you cannot take any form of critique what so ever.
I have valid points, meet them instead of act all high and mighty, annoyed and hide it all away with comments like "you are lying".
Last time I checked I pointed out BOTH the good things in the novels as well as the bad.

Pyriel- wrote:
2 got crippled while almost half a company blood angels including their dreadnought and scout support got completely wasted.
*laughs*

Oh, I get it. You're not lying - you're actually wrong. I think there are several key moments you's misunderstood the situation.

I was talking about 2 squads fighting. Y'know, the only action you get to see? You're making the rest up and assuming it's truth.

Pyriel- wrote:Not even the squad member that lost in melee vs that blood angel was allowed to die of since tataaa, soul hunter and his final fantasy magical sword of utter victory just had to show up and massacre all the BAs like there was no tomorrow...oh sorry, I forgot, they "barely won having lost an entire two marines against what was it again 40-50?.

Nope. Again, that's you misunderstanding the situation completely, despite it explained to you clearly. You have no idea what happened in the entire fight, because you only saw one squad of Night Lords (with ambushing advantage) fight one squad of Blood Angels. And even then, the Night Lords barely won, and took grievous damage. That's all you know, because that's all that's in the novel. The rest, you're making up. The novel ended before the full damage/losses were even shown. We saw one squad with a dreadnought fight one squad with a dreadnought. That's all. And, honestly, if you think First Claw came out of that smiling, I suggest you actually read the book this time.

With home court advantage and attacking from an ambush, with psychological advantage, too - against equal numbers - one of them died (in that fight where you claim no one died), 2 were practically crippled, and the dreadnought was destroyed. If you find that unrealistic, then rock on. But, simply put, it's not. The rest of the fighting going on aboard the strike cruiser was never shown, because the book ended before that part. But there were a lot of Night Lords on board, y'know. It wasn't 5 guys against 40. We saw one of the fights, out of many.

Pyriel- wrote:If you feel so annoyed then ask why I feel so rather then go sandbox on me acting like you cannot take any form of critique what so ever.

It's a myth that writers can't take criticism. The only issue is when the criticism, y'know, makes no sense, or is basically just nonsense. Then it's not actually criticism, it's just useless noise.

Your deal here is simple. You're assuming a lot of stuff happened, despite the fact it didn't. That's why there's no way to argue with you. The sky's blue, but you're raving that it's yellow.

And incidentally, the 2 stories in Fear the Alien that you refer to? The reason me and Nick didn't have our main characters meet was because 5 Night Lords would have no chance against an Imperial Astartes Terminator squad. So we avoided that happening.

Here's the issue, and why what you're saying basically makes no sense:

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets titan = win!

Nope. A Land Raider, a Thunderhawk, and a squad of Space Marines that have melta bombs, manage to topple a Warhound Titan over. Bit of a difference from what you're saying, isn't it? Have you ever played Apocalypse? Do you know much about how powerful (and conversely, vulnerable) a little Warhound is in the lore? Or are you just clinging to that silly nonsense about one invincible squad?

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets black legion = win!

Uh, when? When Abaddon shoots Talos, and Talos goes down like a punk without getting to even fire a single shot? When he runs away after recovering, instead of trying to fight? When he doesn't encounter a single Black Legion warrior, and kills a few humans, then flees? Is that the "win" you're lying about?

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets lack of materiel for hi super ship = vision = instant win!

You mean the short story where they're indulging in piracy? They're pirates, man. It's how they spend most of their lives: trying to get new gear for the ship. Also, it's a series about a prophet. You can't criticise him for having visions that benefit him. That's his freaking job, and in Soul Hunter, it still shows he's bad at that, getting stuff wrong the whole way through.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets the Salamanders = win!

That never happens, though. Talos never meets the Salamanders. 20 Raptors meet a few Salamander terminators, and not only do 10 of the Raptors die after managing to kill only one single Terminator, but they can't kill the other Terminators at all, so they lure genestealers to that part of the ship and seal them in with the Terminators instead. And even then, they only get a few of them. The Night Lords categorically lost that fight. That was the whole point. So, again, you're talking nonsense.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets the blood angels = epic win!

Already explained. You misunderstood the situation completely.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul Hunter meets internal strife on ship = Win!

What does this even mean? It's vague and, forgive me for saying, but it's likely as valid as the other stuff you've insisted happened, when none of it did.


EDIT: I started this sort of angry, but now I get it. If I'd thought all that stuff had happened, I'd think Talos and co. were overpowered goons, too. I hope that explanation cleared a lot of it up.

Nice to see you again Mr. D.B.C.

I must admit, I don't really agree that the Night Lords had an easy time of it in Soul Hunter...

Nearly finished "Firedrake" and am enjoying it immensely, read "Dead Men Walking" and thought this was easily Mr. Lyons' strongest work to date for the BL yet. Suitably bleak indeed for the subjects.

Hoping to both get Heretic and Firedrake in the mail one of these days soon. I'm especially looking forward to the latter, seeing as the first book and the short story I've read made me want more. I just hope that I won't stumble across the words pauldron and plastron all the time.

Could I get a synopsis on Battle for the Abyss, complete with any massive spoilers? (put in tags of course!) I've tried reading it for a third time now but simply can't. Maybe it's the flu, maybe something else, but I can't get through it. It's the only HH novel I haven't been able to punch through sadly.

Dead Blue Clown wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:
2 got crippled while almost half a company blood angels including their dreadnought and scout support got completely wasted.
*laughs*

Oh, I get it. You're not lying - you're actually wrong. I think there are several key moments you's misunderstood the situation.

I was talking about 2 squads fighting. Y'know, the only action you get to see? You're making the rest up and assuming it's truth.

Pyriel- wrote:Not even the squad member that lost in melee vs that blood angel was allowed to die of since tataaa, soul hunter and his final fantasy magical sword of utter victory just had to show up and massacre all the BAs like there was no tomorrow...oh sorry, I forgot, they "barely won having lost an entire two marines against what was it again 40-50?.

Nope. Again, that's you misunderstanding the situation completely, despite it explained to you clearly. You have no idea what happened in the entire fight, because you only saw one squad of Night Lords (with ambushing advantage) fight one squad of Blood Angels. And even then, the Night Lords barely won, and took grievous damage. That's all you know, because that's all that's in the novel. The rest, you're making up. The novel ended before the full damage/losses were even shown. We saw one squad with a dreadnought fight one squad with a dreadnought. That's all. And, honestly, if you think First Claw came out of that smiling, I suggest you actually read the book this time.

With home court advantage and attacking from an ambush, with psychological advantage, too - against equal numbers - one of them died (in that fight where you claim no one died), 2 were practically crippled, and the dreadnought was destroyed. If you find that unrealistic, then rock on. But, simply put, it's not. The rest of the fighting going on aboard the strike cruiser was never shown, because the book ended before that part. But there were a lot of Night Lords on board, y'know. It wasn't 5 guys against 40. We saw one of the fights, out of many.

Pyriel- wrote:If you feel so annoyed then ask why I feel so rather then go sandbox on me acting like you cannot take any form of critique what so ever.

It's a myth that writers can't take criticism. The only issue is when the criticism, y'know, makes no sense, or is basically just nonsense. Then it's not actually criticism, it's just useless noise.

Your deal here is simple. You're assuming a lot of stuff happened, despite the fact it didn't. That's why there's no way to argue with you. The sky's blue, but you're raving that it's yellow.

And incidentally, the 2 stories in Fear the Alien that you refer to? The reason me and Nick didn't have our main characters meet was because 5 Night Lords would have no chance against an Imperial Astartes Terminator squad. So we avoided that happening.

Here's the issue, and why what you're saying basically makes no sense:

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets titan = win!

Nope. A Land Raider, a Thunderhawk, and a squad of Space Marines that have melta bombs, manage to topple a Warhound Titan over. Bit of a difference from what you're saying, isn't it? Have you ever played Apocalypse? Do you know much about how powerful (and conversely, vulnerable) a little Warhound is in the lore? Or are you just clinging to that silly nonsense about one invincible squad?

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets black legion = win!

Uh, when? When Abaddon shoots Talos, and Talos goes down like a punk without getting to even fire a single shot? When he runs away after recovering, instead of trying to fight? When he doesn't encounter a single Black Legion warrior, and kills a few humans, then flees? Is that the "win" you're lying about?

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets lack of materiel for hi super ship = vision = instant win!

You mean the short story where they're indulging in piracy? They're pirates, man. It's how they spend most of their lives: trying to get new gear for the ship. Also, it's a series about a prophet. You can't criticise him for having visions that benefit him. That's his freaking job, and in Soul Hunter, it still shows he's bad at that, getting stuff wrong the whole way through.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets the Salamanders = win!

That never happens, though. Talos never meets the Salamanders. 20 Raptors meet a few Salamander terminators, and not only do 10 of the Raptors die after managing to kill only one single Terminator, but they can't kill the other Terminators at all, so they lure genestealers to that part of the ship and seal them in with the Terminators instead. And even then, they only get a few of them. The Night Lords categorically lost that fight. That was the whole point. So, again, you're talking nonsense.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets the blood angels = epic win!

Already explained. You misunderstood the situation completely.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul Hunter meets internal strife on ship = Win!

What does this even mean? It's vague and, forgive me for saying, but it's likely as valid as the other stuff you've insisted happened, when none of it did.


EDIT: I started this sort of angry, but now I get it. If I'd thought all that stuff had happened, I'd think Talos and co. were overpowered goons, too. I hope that explanation cleared a lot of it up.

Quoted for truth! I dont know what the other guy is talking about but i've read Soul Hunter twice now and every battle they go into and barely come out of is not what i'd call "one sided" in the slightest. I find it odd that anyone can come to those conclusions about the fights at all, every single one of them made me cringe and think "wow that was a close one". No author has made me more afraid for the characters lives, the characters that you know....I have warmed up to throughout the book (besides Uzas). Which I'm sure can be a hard task considering they are traitor Astartes....I mean I like the word bearers books just fine but I dont really like any of those characters for the sake that they are kill my own mom evil. But from the grim-dark beginning to the epic end I came to realize that Talos and his band arent the generic black and white kind of "Evil", a concept I was sold on when i came to the hilarious convorsation the squad had with Septimus towards the end....But i'm rambling, you all get my point.

On a not quite side note but not really relavent to the paragraph above...ADB you are a great Author and I hang on every word in your books/short stories/narratives. Keep up the good work, Soul hunter might be my favorite 40k book out there, and I have many....many of them.

That's funny, as I actually loved the Word Bearer books. It was the fist time in a LONG time of reading Black Library books that I actually really liked the bad guys.

To each their own, I guess.

By the way, thank you D.B.C. for posting on the forums. It not only sounds like you are a good author, but that you know your 40K Fluff and tabletop stuff!!!

It's not that I didnt really like the Word bearers books, I do. I just connect better with Talos and first claw, I actually feel for them. While with the word bearers I have like how bad they are while silently wishing the good guys would win and not just fizzle and die, but it's a word bearer book heh To each their own indeed.

It depends on presentation I guess. During Dead Sky, Black Sun I found myself really enjoying the parts with Honsou more than the parts with Uriel, who was playing the loyalist card a bit too much. I've been told that Blood Pact somewhat works in the same way with the enemy operatives.

Or how about this classic WHFB novel: Necromancer. The guy is as evil as they come at the end, but still, I felt for him and his plight.

Oh, I get it. You're not lying - you're actually wrong. I think there are several key moments you's misunderstood the situation.

I was talking about 2 squads fighting. Y'know, the only action you get to see? You're making the rest up and assuming it's truth.

Nah, its just the way you write, having epic wins for the favorite team and then explaining the rest away with assumptions (the rest got it much better I promise I promise, to bad it wasnt shown. Had it then the whole feel of invincible night lords would not have manifested itself Sorry that doesnt cut it.

Nothing is said except for any blood angel getting instantly massacred while not inflicting anything else even remotely close to hurt back. (well I am wrong, the BAs managed to kill an old navigator of which there is a spare so that isnt really any victory and a defenseless child).

I read what I read, I dont assume illogical things (if 5 BAs meet 5 NLs and are all killed with no casulties being inflicted back then I pretty damn assume the worst for the rest as well, its not me, its your writing).

With home court advantage and attacking from an ambush, with psychological advantage, too - against equal numbers - one of them died (in that fight where you claim no one died), 2 were practically .crippled, and the dreadnought was destroyed. If you find that unrealistic, then rock on.

The night lords and Talos seemed not to have the slightest problem with any home court advantages what so ever when assaulting in small numbers that big Imperial battleship. As I recall they pretty much waded right through the so called "home court" ships (with a crew in the hundred of thousands) defenses with the help of a verbal shout.
To bad home court advantage only applies to the bad guys.

Then again is 2 teams of BAs face of 2 teams of NLs and get all annihilated for ONE casulty in return then the BA captain must surely be the greatest idiot in the whole chapter to be so illogical.
A k/d ration of 1 to 10 is laughable in my book of balace. Crippled marines use cybernetics and with all the "assumed" (you like me assuming things I remember) bounty from the mechanicus below I assume the crippling is no problem.

Even Reynolds, who miss the fluff mark by miles goes to great lenghts to instill a k/d balance in his battles between good and bad astartes.
If a full squad of loylaists is wiped out rest assured that within two pages a full squad of traitors is cut down, its like a mantra in his books.

You however go to great lengths to avoid said balance.

It's a myth that writers can't take criticism. The only issue is when the criticism, y'know, makes no sense, or is basically just nonsense. Then it's not actually criticism, it's just useless noise.

Your deal here is simple. You're assuming a lot of stuff happened, despite the fact it didn't. That's why there's no way to argue with you. The sky's blue, but you're raving that it's yellow.

Since you did show me only black you cannot find it logical for me to simply assume there is a lot of white going on in the background.
But I was wrong about you too, you arent wrong or lying, you simply cannot be wrong.

Regarding criticism I have the distinct feeling you cannot take any of it.
I pointed out and still point flaws in your argumentations like home court advances being used as eating a cake and still having it, no major flaws based on infighting while the opposite applies to loyalists, the laughable notion of applying tabletop stats to a novel (damn but you had me crying of all the laughter there) and characters of note completely devoid of any feel of danger to them what so ever (unkillable) but arguing with you is like arguing with mist, everything is excused away with nonsense, wrong, lies etc etc.
If you are going for the Ad nauseam angle then try something else.

Nope. A Land Raider, a Thunderhawk, and a squad of Space Marines that have melta bombs, manage to topple a Warhound Titan over. Bit of a difference from what you're saying, isn't it? Have you ever played Apocalypse? Do you know much about how powerful (and conversely, vulnerable) a little Warhound is in the lore? Or are you just clinging to that silly nonsense about one invincible squad?

*wipes tears from eyes*
Might be news for you and you had me up for quite the laugh after this comment of yours, but TABLETOP IS NOT FLUFF.
Read it again and please implement it in future novels, tabletp statlines and rules are NOT the correct representation of the fluff.

If that is the case and you are retorting to apocalypse balancing rules excuses then please do explain how the night lords waded through legions of mechanicus infantry with relative ease?
I mean in apocalypse a marines statline and power levels are roughly onlt three times of a normal infantry human. You know armour 3+ vs 6+, S and T 4 vs S and T 3 and a S4 weapon vs a S3 weapon.
In all fairness 10 or so night lords fighting human soldiers would have been completely wiped out if tabletop excuses were to be used so no, your talk about me and nonsense is just that, pure nonsense. You cant eat the cake and still have it.

Uh, when? When Abaddon shoots Talos, and Talos goes down like a punk without getting to even fire a single shot? When he runs away after recovering, instead of trying to fight? When he doesn't encounter a single Black Legion warrior, and kills a few humans, then flees? Is that the "win" you're lying about?

Thought it would be a weee little harder to disengare from a chaos legion that has orders to kill your small force. Lying, I dont know about that Mr. Flawless but I certainly hear you repeat yourself alot.


As for other novel examples where instant victory, oh sorry, unkillable henchmen and invoulnerable main characters arent automatically assured lets take a look at Kymes Salamanders novels.

Equipment = no assurance of victory or survival.

Rank = no assurance of survival (some of my favorite seargent characters were offed like there is no tomorrow)

Support characters like Bakken = getting their asses kicked badly, always hovering aroud uncertain survival.

A character that hates the rest = the rest start dying by his hand contrary to nigth lords who pretty much hate/loathe each otehrs with no bad (kill) effect to show for.

Main characters like tsugan = almost killed, very flawed.

Dakir = flawed, not that kickass, gets ass kicked in the end.

Pyriel, who is actually based on me (my cognomen) as thanks for helping Kyme with aspects of his novels = gets his ass so kicked the question of his survivability is instilled as he is to face the same danger again soon.


All this accounts for greater suspense since noone is secure from death.
Its not as extreme as in Stephen Donaldsons works but the theme is there.


As for Talos going down to Abaddons attack well, not even you are audacious enough to pull a Talos is invincible when facing Abaddon, I grant you that, you might be on the way there but you are still not a Reynolds.

You mean the short story where they're indulging in piracy? They're pirates, man. It's how they spend most of their lives: trying to get new gear for the ship. Also, it's a series about a prophet. You can't criticise him for having visions that benefit him. That's his freaking job, and in Soul Hunter, it still shows he's bad at that, getting stuff wrong the whole way through.

Prates per definition cannot take on military might and are almost by default sooner or later cought and killed. That´s pirates for you and I bet they will never be cought and killed now will they? They dont board fully armed battleships, dont repel elite military boarding forces with SUCH ease, they run, hide, strike fast and carefully against dead weak targets, back down rather then risk facing losses instead of wading through loyalist astartes, not breaching full military battleship cordons with their little gunboats just to show of etc etc. You take and pick from the pirate theme as it fits you then discard the unpleasant rest it seems.
How about trying some realism the next time if you now want to uphold the pirate theme?

On the prophet theme it really becomes fun.
Last time I heard prophets were badly wrong on many occasions. If you talk about warp prophets, you know warp, the thing that never tells you the truth, I´m surprised Talos always manages an epic win from his visions.
Oh right, there was this one that was wrong showing a marine kill another marine but *surprise* that was never a drawback anyway.
A true warp prophet would see a victory or two from his visions then the third tie he would loose half his squad for no gain at all because a false prophecy showd him a wrong thing.
Again, pick and choose only what benefits and discard the rest or stand up for what you are doing and say it out loud, "I want to eat the cake and still have it".

The night lords suffer the same flaws like most bad guy astartes in novels about bad guy astartes with their authors making the same mistake over and over again. Their inherent hatred for each others never show for anything resembling a weakness.

Example:
Kymes marines suffer in combat from human flaws like hatred for each others (traitor), their loyalty to each others pose a problem when moral dilemmas are brought forth (Reynolds, and a big hurra to that part of his novels) etc.
Whereas traitor astartes are pictured as hating each others loathing one another etc etc with half of them wanting to put a knife in the back in the other half but this NEVER affects them in battle (storm of iron, soul hunter, word bearer novels etc).
How funny is that when love and loyalty to your fellow warriors are shown to pose more in the way of problems and losses then hate and mistrust.
Goes to show the difference in quality of writers who implement those things to great lengths.
Ergo: you have a lot to learn from the likes of Kyme but then again as you are flawless and I am only wrong and lying I can only dream of such things being implemented to greater extend then assumptions.
They might still be there but never affecting on any substantial scale like they should and this IS meant in the fluff as a big part of the flaw of chaos warriors.

That never happens, though. Talos never meets the Salamanders. 20 Raptors meet a few Salamander terminators, and not only do 10 of the Raptors die after managing to kill only one single Terminator, but they can't kill the other Terminators at all, so they lure genestealers to that part of the ship and seal them in with the Terminators instead. And even then, they only get a few of them. The Night Lords categorically lost that fight. That was the whole point. So, again, you're talking nonsense.

Now you are the one lying.
It is clearly stated in the end of that story what a big victory the night lords won gaining something much greater (rare armours) then the loss of some of the raptors and that to was explained away by "it only makes us stronger". Not really the sad loss there and my point still stands, even when the favored night lords "loose" they win big!
Lie that one away if you can.

Soul hunter meets the blood angels = epic win!
Already explained. You misunderstood the situation completely.

Yes I already said that, I read black and was supposed to assume white. that is unless I feel like 10 against 1 kills are balanced terms.

-What does this even mean? It's vague and, forgive me for saying, but it's likely as valid as the other stuff you've insisted happened, when none of it did.

You really cant take any critique.
The internal strife was the captain hating Talos, even sending a terminator to kill him.
What luck he had some of his invincible squaddies with him, had it been a salamanders terminator they would surely have perished *not*.
But all this didnt happen, I am clearly wrong here if not outright lying, is that right Mr perfect?

Quoted for truth!

yeahyeah, I am the bad guy daring to say critique about the flawless author everybody just loves unquestionally.
Then again, I dont really care if I go against the grain, someone has to on occasion.
To me its a measure of another persons self esteem if he shuts his eyes up and excuses everything that does not agree with his opinions.

That's funny, as I actually loved the Word Bearer books. It was the fist time in a LONG time of reading Black Library books that I actually really liked the bad guys.

To each their own, I guess.

-By the way, thank you D.B.C. for posting on the forums. It not only sounds like you are a good author, but that you know your 40K Fluff and tabletop stuff!!!

To bad the author uses tabletop "stuff" in his novels LOL
Last time I read a story with tabletop statline marines it didnt turn out any good.

Abut the word bearer novels:
Maybe you like them because you missed the fluff being massacred by Reynolds, well and the three invincible main characters you never, ever feel afraid of risking loosing but apart from that the action and story I must admit is pretty damn hot.
The word bearers marines and their armours are litterarly growing on trees. The man killed of more word bearers then the entire chapters of space wolves, ultramarines and all of the black templars combined. (based on the number of hosts and the size of the first ones) and enough battle ships to equip 3 first founding chapters (based on battlefleet gothic and index astartes).
Over 200 word bearers of which were killed just like that because they were of another opinion then their leader. Not using them in suecide battle or anything, just offing them because you know, the word bearers back home are 4 times as plentiful as the "little" assault force being sent and the balck legion is hinted to be something like 8 times the size of that.

Its like Swallow killing of entire chapters of blood angels but on steroids, redoing the fluff like there is no tomorrow and adding untouchable characters to that.
I bet dear old ADB will step in here calling me a liar again but I dont expect anything else from Mr Flawless these days.

I mean the favoritism of work bearer power levels is so ridiculous that a loyalist who is some 1000-1300 years old (Reynolds apparently missed the fluff on Dante) and has been practicing sword fighting like mad is treated like a naked baby by one of the word bearer leaders. I´m glad Dante, the chapter master of the BAs didnt face that word bearers commander, he wouldnt stand 5 seconds against him.

I can understand the attraction for these kind of novels and dont think bad of people who like them, far from. They are just not for me since I need more depth and correct fluff if I am to spend hours reading something and I absolutely cannot stand tabletop balance and rules being used as excuses for so called novel "fluff".

It's not that I didnt really like the Word bearers books, I do. I just connect better with Talos and first claw, I actually feel for them. While with the word bearers I have like how bad they are while silently wishing the good guys would win and not just fizzle and die, but it's a word bearer book heh To each their own indeed.

True, each one their own and I must admit that I too feel for the night lords more then the word bearers but this is due to the fact there actually IS more struggle for the night lords then the word bearers.
My problem is though as stated before, the power level of talos and his squad is to much, I feel for them but barely and it is getting overshadowed withlack of suspense from the belief that nothing can actually happen to them as in one or more get killed or pushed over an abyss by someone else in their squad that dont like him.

The night lord story becomes more of a suspense, based on what ingenious problem will the author have them face of with and in what clever way will they solve it!
Not, WILL, any of them die while solving the problem since the author has conditioned my mind to "be certain" that Talos and his stolen final fantasy sword of absolutely assured victory nor his squad mates can ever die!
That part is utterly gone and this is what dear liar-ranting ADB cannot accept from me.

Now if the next soul hunter novel sees half his squad die and himself loose a leg or so and not while fighting the emperor himself AND winning as usual then I will be the first to crawl back here and in public apologize but then again I will do it gladly since I know that the Talos novels of the future will be 100% worth reading with higher levels of suspense being added to them. Damn, I´d probably but all three+ of them anew just to have mint copied in my collection.

It amazes me though that some people are so afraid of critique they turn to sandbox tactics to excuse it away.
If I would treat critique for my own work the same way, no matter if I like or dislike the persons bringing me said critique, I would never be better at what I do.
I PMed the author and was kind of hoping for some sort of reasonable discussion, be it in private or not, about the night lord novel but apparently I am wrong, an outright liar, am assumed to be a mind reader and am making all stuff up out of thin air. Nothing I say is the slightest anchored in reality because everything I say is made up nonsense used simply to hurt the author in spite.
If the author cannot accept that his writing can be seen in anything other then his own particular view then I simply lack not only words but all semblance of respect for said person.

@ Pyriel. Has this guy never read an Astartes novel before?

They are all super human & as for compairing the NL attack on an imperial ship with the BA attack on the NL you are clearly clutching at straws to justify a tenuous point of view.

The NL walked through the Imperial ship because it was full of average joe humans.

The BA squad was caught by supprise by a force in their own backyard & were only just beaten back.

The NL were hammered & had their dread not turned up they would've snuffed it.

You also dont get to hear what happens on the rest of the ship. Honestly its sound like chaos crew butchered left right & centre (just as in the NL attack on the imperial ship)

& the whole titan thing was not beyond the realm of possibility either. AD-B gave you a 'table top' explaination to show this, he wasn't saying that tabletop is exactly comparable to fluff. you're just being obtuse & you know it.

@Pyriel. So much writing so little sense and so much of it just plain wrong.

I am not the greatest fan of A-B's writing style, though I will admit I have enjoy the latest HH book and it was worth the purchase. I think you ought to read one of his books because it sure doesn't look like you have because you are talking pure bollocks.

As a side note, and I don't blame A-B for this as all HH writers do this but I am sick to death of the almost teenage angst worship of the primarchs by SM's - I mean come on, feel like the cannot talk, an almost need to spontaneously genufluct if a primarch merely says "good morning".

Pyriel, listen, you miss pretty much everything. You go off half-cocked, assuming X, Y and Z, and I hesitate to say it, but you're bordering on embarrassing yourself now. You've lied, you've invented stuff, you've missed more points than I can even count, whether they were nuanced and subtle, or clearly explained to you.

Here's the perfect example:

I say:

Me wrote:"Nope. A Land Raider, a Thunderhawk, and a squad of Space Marines that have melta bombs, manage to topple a Warhound Titan over. Bit of a difference from what you're saying, isn't it? Have you ever played Apocalypse? Do you know much about how powerful (and conversely, vulnerable) a little Warhound is in the lore? Or are you just clinging to that silly nonsense about one invincible squad?"

You reply with:

Pyriel wrote:"*wipes tears from eyes*
Might be news for you and you had me up for quite the laugh after this comment of yours, but TABLETOP IS NOT FLUFF.
Read it again and please implement it in future novels, tabletp statlines and rules are NOT the correct representation of the fluff."

Do you actually read anything except what you write? Read the sentence in bold. Jesus, it's like trying to teach algebra to a rock, here. I replied citing the lore and the rules, and of them both back me up. You rave on and on, missing the point, choosing half the answer, and accusing me of more nonsense. You're absolutely right. Tabletop statlines aren't the fluff. Which is why I said both the lore and the statlines back me up. Fluff and rules. I made the point clearly, yet you turned it into a weird, raving weapon about me using tabletop stats as the basis for my work.

And here's another:

Pyriel wrote:I read what I read, I dont assume illogical things (if 5 BAs meet 5 NLs and are all killed with no casulties being inflicted back then I pretty damn assume the worst for the rest as well, its not me, its your writing).

Despite it mentioned 5 times in this thread, and in the novel itself, that there were casualties in that fight? Even when you finally get to the point, you're still wrong about it. How am I supposed to take you seriously? Did you just read a synopsis of the novel and guess at what was on the pages?

Come on, man. Surely, somewhere in your intense focus, you have to see that you're making zero sense. The reason I don't need to defend myself isn't because I can't take criticism, it's because what you're saying is weird silliness that bears no resemblance to reality.

Pyriel wrote:The internal strife was the captain hating Talos, even sending a terminator to kill him. What luck he had some of his invincible squaddies with him, had it been a salamanders terminator they would surely have perished *not*.

Another classic example of why you are impossible to debate with. You're inventing things. The Terminator wasn't sent to kill Talos, and Talos wasn't even there in that scene. Do you see? Do you see how nothing you're saying makes any sense? How can you call this critique? It's nonsense and lies. How can I respond by nodding sagely when you rant and rave about stuff that never happened, for reasons you completely misunderstand?

Pyriel wrote:You really cant take any critique.

As I said, critique is awesome. You're raving and making no sense. Most of what you're saying isn't an opinion, it's invented nonsense.

I genuinely don't understand how all of these explanations from me and others are going over your head, but either way, I'm done with this weird war over it. You're entitled to your own opinion, guy. Not your own facts. Stop making stuff up.

Modquisiiton on. This htread has been reported and is getting flamy. Lets cease and desist lest this thread get closed and persons disciplined as warranted.

Well, regardless of Pyriel beating down AD-B and talking up Nick Kyme, I burnt through Soul Hunter in a few hours.
I quit trying to read Salamander after about 30 pages.
That right there says enough about the respective authors for me.

Holding too strong to preconceptions about a universe can hurt your enjoyment of books.
I read to enjoy the characters and the situations.
If the specifics are fudged a bit to get the characters from point a to point b, oh well.
As long as the journey was fun, who cares about the rest.

Just in case no one's noticed, the next Space Marine Battles novel after the Fall of Damnos is.....

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/coming-soon/Battle-of-the-fang.html

The Battle of the Fang. (i check back a few pages and this doesn't seen to have been posted.)