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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 09:03:58
Subject: Re:Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [30/06/14 : Night Stalkers side project... Oops !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ha, I had never heard about that one ! But my significant other isn't really into fantasy/sci-fi board games, so I've stopped buying some...
Do you play it ? It looks fun indeed ! (plus I love coop games  )
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My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 16:06:49
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [30/06/14 : Night Stalkers side project... Oops !]
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[DCM]
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I have played it - and loved it!
It came right down to the end too...
Plus there's a fair amount of replay as you will be fighting against different 'big bad guys' as well...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 22:13:36
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [30/06/14 : Night Stalkers side project... Oops !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Alpharius wrote:I have played it - and loved it!
It came right down to the end too...
Plus there's a fair amount of replay as you will be fighting against different 'big bad guys' as well...
Uhuh... I might have to try and find it someday... You got me hooked !
(Back) on topic, here's where I'm at with the Dread :
Going smoothly !
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My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 15:55:23
Subject: Re:Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [30/06/14 : Night Stalkers side project... Oops !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 15:59:50
My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 22:25:58
Subject: Re:Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [30/06/14 : Night Stalkers side project... Oops !]
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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I've always enjoyed your camo scheme, how do you do it? And nice haul
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/02 03:33:33
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [30/06/14 : Night Stalkers side project... Oops !]
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Dangerous Outrider
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Is your codex in English or French?
It's pretty rad either way. Ice gets to see mine for the first time tomorrow. He's only bugged me about it like 12 times.
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The pink army always wins. You beat the pink army? Go ahead and brag about it. You lost to the pink army? Well, then....
moonpie's P&M blorg |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/02 08:54:43
Subject: Re:Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [30/06/14 : Night Stalkers side project... Oops !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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moonpie wrote:Is your codex in English or French?
It's pretty rad either way. Ice gets to see mine for the first time tomorrow. He's only bugged me about it like 12 times.
It's in English, for sure ! Ok, for the LE ones, there's no translated version available lol !
Anyway, I prefer to have my Codices (sp?) in English anyways...  And with the new website, it's now possible even from France ! I'm happy with that
I like the new format, every rule is set in the unit entry, you don't need to go back & forth between the "Bestiary" and the "Army list" anymore... That's a big win for me !
Nashbashem wrote:I've always enjoyed your camo scheme, how do you do it? And nice haul
Thanks !
As for the camouflage, I apply with blister foam some masking paste (from Humbrol or Tamyia, whatever) on the basecoat (1st camo colour, in this case black), then airbrush the 2nd colour (in this case, blue-grey), re-apply some masking paste, airbrush the 3rd colour (sand yellow), and then remove the masking tape with fingers or a stipple paintbrush, and... tadaa !!!
A few pics :
Hope this helps !!
As for the Dreadnought, it's finally done !!!
Here's the promised pic :
Getting back to the Night Stalkers has set my mind on fire with everything I wanted to build for that army but never did...
A Ravenwing command squad on foot with RW Captain (not Sammael), a DW Command Squad, another DW squad, a TDA Librarian, some more bikes.... Aaaaargh !!!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 08:55:05
My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/02 10:55:22
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Very nice work on the dread there Yggs. Sarcophagus just looks great!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/02 12:07:26
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
OH-I Wanna get out of here
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If not for the engine smokestacks, wouldnt have ever known it was a Black Reach Dread, good job!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/02 19:31:03
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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That's a great overall effect.. Sounds very time consuming!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 01:40:49
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Dakka Veteran
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Dread look fantastic Ygg. i love the sarcophagus...and the glow effects (as always).
did your colleague like his gift?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 07:38:32
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Gitsplitta wrote:Very nice work on the dread there Yggs. Sarcophagus just looks great!
San76 wrote:Dread look fantastic Ygg. i love the sarcophagus...and the glow effects (as always).
did your colleague like his gift?
Thank you guys, the sarcophagus seems to attract a lot of attention... I'm glad I took the time to file off the original one and put the DA one on top, I also think it looks great !
As for the glow effects, I tried to be a bit less enthusiastic than usual, and at first had only planned to airbrush the Plasma Cannon & Searchlight... Ok, I couldn't help but try on the DCCW too
I think it looks quite nice on the PC, not as good on the searchlight & power fist... But hey, at least it won't be too far from the rest of the Army !
whalemusic360 wrote:If not for the engine smokestacks, wouldnt have ever known it was a Black Reach Dread, good job!
Thanks mate, I put quite some efforts into "darkangelizing" it, so I'm glad it pays off !
Solar_lion wrote:That's a great overall effect.. Sounds very time consuming!
Well, TBH, not so much compared to my usual standards... Built in two sessions, painted in two days... It was quite fast !!!
Now for the boring / discussing part : I've found a technique that works quite nicely for me in terms of "time spent / overall effect" : I just spray / airbrush / drybrush / sponge-weather most of the vehicle, then spend a bit of time on SOME details (sarcophagus, angel icon/banners, feathers, lenses) while quickly painting some others (purity seals, skulls, etc...) AND ignoring some potentially-painstaking ones (like the cables on the side of the sarcophagus).
In the end, the eye is drawn to the few nicely painted details, while totally ignoring the unpainted ones... I think it works !!!
Oh, and I still am bad at writing names & freehanding
As for the last two days, I've been working on my Ravenwing Command Squad on foot, complete with Captain & Techmarine... Do you want WIP pics ?
As usual, thanks for the support guys
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My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 14:45:07
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Dakka Veteran
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Totally want WIP shots mate!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 20:05:41
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ok, then just for San !
RW Command squad & TDA Librarian (can be zoomed in the gallery) :
Close-up on the Librarian :
And as for the Techmarine, I need help from you ! I'm still debating which head I should use for him, to help make him stand out as an adept of the Omnissiah :
Either the "RW Techmarine Pilot" head :
Or an Iron Hand head with bionics :
So, what do you think is best ? (I prefer the IH one, one of my friend is more on the RW side... )
Bonus : +1  to the one that can make out which parts were used in the making of the Librarian
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 20:06:12
My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 20:22:18
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Leaping Khawarij
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I think the second head looks cooler. The Ravenwing head always gets a lot of play, but I think the Bionic one is waaay cooler.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 20:22:24
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
OH-I Wanna get out of here
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Cant see enough of the legs to say for sure, maybe DW legs with part of the DW knight robe used as a tallbard? Rest looks to be a GKT torso, DA Vet (or upgrade sprue) head, DW arms, angle from the Vet kit as well.
I vote for the RW Tech Marine head. that layered look is very Techmarine looking. The other looks more like a Vet than a Tech.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 23:02:09
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Chemical Cutthroat wrote:I think the second head looks cooler. The Ravenwing head always gets a lot of play, but I think the Bionic one is waaay cooler.
Ok so that's 2 for IH head (my vote included  )... Thanks !
whalemusic360 wrote:Cant see enough of the legs to say for sure, maybe DW legs with part of the DW knight robe used as a tallbard? Rest looks to be a GKT torso, DA Vet (or upgrade sprue) head, DW arms, angle from the Vet kit as well.
I vote for the RW Tech Marine head. that layered look is very Techmarine looking. The other looks more like a Vet than a Tech.
Ok, half-  for WM360 !
Legs are the bottom half of the DV Terminator Sergeant... Quite happy I managed to cut everything off & fit a GKT torso on top !
You're right for the rest
And ok, that's 2 for RW Techmarine head (my friend Renault's vote included  )... Damn, still a draw!
[edit : wow, just noticed you had a promotion WM ! When did that happen ?  ]
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 23:02:59
My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 23:03:58
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Yggs, I am stealing your Terminator Librarian.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 23:18:26
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Only if thee vote for which Techmarine head I should use, shall I allow thee to perform such a thought theft.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 23:18:44
My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 23:41:09
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
OH-I Wanna get out of here
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Just happend today. RiTides got full modhood, I got his spot.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 23:41:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 23:46:58
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 Congrats are due, then, both for you and Steve !
(side question : any Mod got demo(d)ted ? )
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My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 00:09:41
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Yggdrasil wrote:
Only if thee vote for which Techmarine head I should use, shall I allow thee to perform such a thought theft.
I would go for the Ravenwing Techmarine head.
It looks very distinctively "Techmarine" and is shared with the Finecast Techmarines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 02:14:07
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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[DCM]
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Condolences, more like!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 08:15:35
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kanluwen wrote: Yggdrasil wrote:
Only if thee vote for which Techmarine head I should use, shall I allow thee to perform such a thought theft.
I would go for the Ravenwing Techmarine head.
It looks very distinctively "Techmarine" and is shared with the Finecast Techmarines.
Ok that's three for the Techmarine head !
Alpharius wrote:
Condolences, more like!
You know the saying : "The King is dead, long live the King!"
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My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 10:39:47
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!
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How have I missed this blog?! Just served through the whole thing and damn! there's some impressive stuff here.
Really like you Tzeentch chosen unit  and your friends apoc board is awesome!
Any chance you remember the colours you used for you tau? In particular their grey/cream armour colour.
Love this stuff and I really look forward to further progress on the RW command!
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My P&M blog
DC:90S++G+++M+B+IPw40k04#+D+A+++/cWD241R++T(T)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 17:24:38
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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I would go for the first choice for techmarine head.
The idea of CO changing every two years is a very interesting concept. I did not know the French military worked that way.
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"Reality is, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away"
-Philip K. Dick
Constant Lurker, Slowly getting back into modelling! Someday a P&M Blog link will lurk here! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 19:35:56
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Brother Payne wrote:How have I missed this blog?! Just served through the whole thing and damn! there's some impressive stuff here.
Really like you Tzeentch chosen unit  and your friends apoc board is awesome!
Any chance you remember the colours you used for you tau? In particular their grey/cream armour colour.
Love this stuff and I really look forward to further progress on the RW command!
Hey, thanks for joining the band and the kind words !
As for the Tau, it's quite simple really :
- White basecoat ;
- Sepia wash in the recesses ;
- Dryad Bark for the weathering, applied with a small sponge or blister foam...
And.... VoilĂ !
Sageheart wrote:I would go for the first choice for techmarine head.
The idea of CO changing every two years is a very interesting concept. I did not know the French military worked that way.
Ok thanks, that's 4 for the Techmarine
As for the French Army, the 2-year length is applied only for specific officer functions, like company commander, battalion commander, or brigadier... For most other roles, the duration may vary !
On a wedding trip this weekend (not mine, don't worry), and back to work on Monday, so don't expect updates before a few days... But that gives you more time for helping me in choosing which Techmarine head I should use !
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My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/05 01:11:22
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!
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Thanks for the painting tips  I vote RW head - it just seems to fit better
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My P&M blog
DC:90S++G+++M+B+IPw40k04#+D+A+++/cWD241R++T(T)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/05 03:00:49
Subject: Re:Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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I'm going to throw my vote in for the Iron hands head.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/05 15:02:37
Subject: Yggdrasil's modelling sandstorm! [02/07/14 : Night Stalkers Dreadnought complete + Camo mini-tuto !]
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Iron hand head. Lovely glowy dread mate!
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Theophony"... and there's strippers in terminator armor and lovecraftian shenanigans afoot."
Solar_Lion: "Man this sums up your blog nicely."
Anpu-adom: "being Geek is about Love. Some love broadly. Some love deeply. And then there are people like Graven. |
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