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damned logic trap!

Shadowseer_Kim wrote: I just had a though, and I am not endorsing it by any means. GW has set themselves up to be counterfeited since they are using materials and techniques readily available by the average person. I could if I wanted to, just start cranking out "finecast", then undercut GW on the price like one of those discount stores online, and people wouldn't even know the difference. I am pretty sure I know which resin they are using, but I will not be publically stating it so as to discourage the just mentioned behavior.

Thanks for your posts Kim and giving us further insight into this issue. An engineer posted on Dakka last year about the type of resin used for finecast. Apparently it has similarities to a type of low grade resin designed for disposable use. Was this comment accurate?

candy.man wrote:

Shadowseer_Kim wrote: I just had a though, and I am not endorsing it by any means. GW has set themselves up to be counterfeited since they are using materials and techniques readily available by the average person. I could if I wanted to, just start cranking out "finecast", then undercut GW on the price like one of those discount stores online, and people wouldn't even know the difference. I am pretty sure I know which resin they are using, but I will not be publically stating it so as to discourage the just mentioned behavior.

Thanks for your posts Kim and giving us further insight into this issue. An engineer posted on Dakka last year about the type of resin used for finecast. Apparently it has similarities to a type of low grade resin designed for disposable use. Was this comment accurate?

I'm going to be most amused if it turns out this new resin is biodegradable, and all these hideously expensive rubbish casts are going to melt away in a years time, so you have to buy your army again..and again...

Would you put it past them? I wouldn't.

candy.man wrote:

Shadowseer_Kim wrote: I just had a though, and I am not endorsing it by any means. GW has set themselves up to be counterfeited since they are using materials and techniques readily available by the average person. I could if I wanted to, just start cranking out "finecast", then undercut GW on the price like one of those discount stores online, and people wouldn't even know the difference. I am pretty sure I know which resin they are using, but I will not be publically stating it so as to discourage the just mentioned behavior.

Thanks for your posts Kim and giving us further insight into this issue. An engineer posted on Dakka last year about the type of resin used for finecast. Apparently it has similarities to a type of low grade resin designed for disposable use. Was this comment accurate?

How degradable is it? I live with the legacy of figures that crumble with lead rot and have lost dozens. At least white metal is stable for a loooong time.

This made interesting reading, from a multiple Golden Demon winner...

http://www.akaranseth.com/blog/quest-for-an-overlord-conclusions.htm

Actually MGS wasn't that the blog that started this thread? lol

Sidstyler wrote:Actually MGS wasn't that the blog that started this thread? lol

it's the conclusion of that blog. 10 Overlords, no decent model, he's giving up and buying a PP model instead.

It’s a shame that the “Great Quest” is over but I am not surprised. 10 substandard casts in a row is pretty shocking (and scary IMO).

Personally I’m going to reckon that GW will never fix finecast considering it’s a cheap type of resin (that’s used in a poor manufacturing process) and yet they charge as if it was an ultra premium product (which it isn’t but should). That Chinese recast place will probably get even more business lol.

Ok so upon closer inspection there are several parts of my "finecast" commissar that did not cast correctly. There are also bubbles throughout the piece. I have the tools and ability to fix it, but in this condition the miniature should sell for $6 us dollars NOT $15.

Got my replacement Isabella, she is better than the first, no hole in the chin, or ear, some minor marks, but nothing that will cause me any issues.

It arrived on Saturday, so took eleven days to get it to me. Although as I only wanted her for a leader upgrade on my Vampire Mordheim gang, that wasn't a issue.

I just received these from GW online:

Huron Blackheart
Khorne Icons (both sets)
Tzeentch Icons

all 7 models were perfectly "fine".

Just had my first horrible fineco$t experience (well, not that bad), but I bought inquisitor Karamazov, and a few pieces were broken/flawed. Karamazov himself was not in the kit at all. I called GW, told them which pieces were messed up and what was missing, and received them two days later in the mail. I guess it could have been worse.

Sidstyler wrote:Actually MGS wasn't that the blog that started this thread? lol

It was the same blog, but the update to the original post.

It's fairly damning.

oni wrote:

oni wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

oni wrote:Just bought and received a box of Space Marine Vanguard Vets... NOT A SINGLE USABLE PART IN THE WHOLE BOX!

Pathetic is too kind a word to describe this box of Vets.

I called customer service and was asked which parts have issues so that he could pull those parts and send them to me.

There was a period of silence when I explained that he'll need to pull every part to every model as nothing is usable.

I was then asked if I had the models in front of me. I called from work and so didn't have them. After explaining this I was asked to call back when I had the models. I'll be calling once I'm home and will post the outcome.

Actually before you start posting stuff off, won't they accept a photograph as proof?

UPDATE:

After calling back and speaking with the same customer service rep. he started by asking me to describe all of the flaws on each model and each part. I was incredibly annoyed by this and immediately exclaimed that I would not do any such thing as it's a complete waste of my time. I could send pictures or return the item if GW sends me a paid return shipping label. He opted to have the item returned and I was emailed a paid shipping label. Once GW received the item he would be in contact to discuss their findings.

His last statement 'contact to discuss their findings' was a bit odd and having never been asked to return an item... I asked if the 'no questions asked' return policy for Failcast has changed? His reply was such that "Finecast no longer has issues", it was only the first batch and most of those casts have been reclaimed by GW. Failcast returns are now being screened so to speak. GW's intent is to have the customer service reps. make the determination if the model / bit needs replaced.

This of course put me into a frenzied rage as it is not GW's position to tell me whether or not their product is acceptable to ME. I ALONE MAKE THAT DETERMINATION!

I told the customer service rep. that I expect nothing less than perfection (i was exaggerating to express the severity of my displeasure) and should my replacements still not meet MY quality standards, I will be calling back for further replacements and the call will not pleasurable for any party.

UPDATE 2:

I think I may need to eat crow on this one as there was a misunderstanding of this "screening process". After seeing my returned package had arrived at GW, but not receiving a phone call; I took the initiative and called the customer service rep. myself. I received a plausible explanation as to why I didn't receive a call, but this wasn't my main concern. I couldn't get this splinter out of my thoughts that they were screening the returns. The customer service rep. elaborated as to what this meant and assuaged my fears.

The 'screening' process so to speak is for unfortunate issues such as mine where a larger Finecast box has been purchased and all of the parts are allegedly defunct. GW has the box returned for 'documentation' to be forwarded onto GW UK HQ. The models are not being screened in the sense that GW will deny a return.

I'll follow up further once I have a new set in hand.

UPDATE 3:

Today is the two week mark since GW has received the models back... I'm still waiting for replacements. I'm starting to feel like customer service is giving me the run around. Every time I call its "Yea, we should have those in the mail tomorrow."

Wow. All those faults, I can't believe it. Now I'm skeptically looking at my own overlord checking twice to see if he is as 'flawless' as I thought...

I still haven't had any major issues (few hidden bubbles on Dante), but my friend and I picked up two finecast models: I got Grimgore Ironhide, he got a Necrotech. We were flying, so didn't want to open the packages, I checked Grimgore at the till and he seems fine. My friend didn't check his 'Tech. There was a giant pieces of flash between the body and sword arm, fusing them together-it's not even salvageable without marring serious detail. Has anyone else gotten a Necrotech, and do they all have this problem? I'll check Grimgore fully when I get home, I just didn't want to break pieces on the plane. Only bubbles I could see were on the bottoms of his feet...that will be directly on the base-I sure won't complain about THOSE bubbles.

well today I got my order of 2 boxes of DE Wracks....

10 models.

3 Have no weapon in right hand as they broke off in shipping or whatever.

1 has both feet broken off.

So thats 40% busted....

YAY! I had a Haemonculus busted last shipment and GW said they would ship me a new one right away... that was 3 month ago!!!

This is most likely my last attempt at Failcast... I hate spending 2 hours cleaning up the models... It took me less time to assemble a 16 man box of dwarfs than 5 finecast wracks!

Finally got some replacements...

Order date: Jan. 11th
Product received / complaint made: Jan 20th

Replacements received: Feb 18th

Result = They're even worse than the first set. Complete garbage and entirely unusable. I'm done with FAILCAST, I absolutely refuse to purchase it anymore. If this shameful product is to be the next best thing for GW miniatures... I weep for the future of this hobby.

I'll be requesting a complete refund for the product. I refuse to deal with this crap.

I'll just leave this here...

Emerett wrote:I'll just leave this here...

LOL I see what you did there

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22418

Wow, just wow. 'nuff said as Stan Lee would say. =o]

PS, They want $85.25 canadian for that model. Like fething hell, over my cold and dead body.

Philld77 wrote:

Emerett wrote:I'll just leave this here...

LOL I see what you did there

Geez, I hope mine doesn't get miscasted. I'd get mad. People lose limbs when I become angered.

oni wrote:Finally got some replacements...

Order date: Jan. 11th
Product received / complaint made: Jan 20th

Replacements received: Feb 18th

Result = They're even worse than the first set. Complete garbage and entirely unusable. I'm done with FAILCAST, I absolutely refuse to purchase it anymore. If this shameful product is to be the next best thing for GW miniatures... I weep for the future of this hobby.

I'll be requesting a complete refund for the product. I refuse to deal with this crap.

You are about as far from a 'hater' of GW stuff as I have ever met, for you to be saying this, there is a real problem and it is STILL ongoing... I wish GW would take their cap in their hands, stand up and say 'we recognise there are problems with this and we're going to take action', instead of waving their hands around like Obi-Wan, telling us there isn't a problem and trying to get us to buy the newly marketed repair kits... WHY the hell should there be such a product when this entire change was done for 'better quality and detail'...?

Can this still be argued away as teething troubles? We are how many months into finecast now? Many of the models must have been designed with finecast in mind, moreover, the marines Oni is describing are, well, marines, not the most difficult figures to cast right, lots of flat areas.

Being fairly new to the hobby, I have to say that I've been overwhelmed by how good GW's plastic kits are, but how bad my experience with finecast has been. I have picked up five finecast figures, four of those five are seriously flawed. I will not be making any more purchases of finecast models and will supplement my armies with models from other lines if need be in the future.

Picked up the Pain boy, fine cast. Not so fine at all. Alot of holes, and some warp. I will now look for the older metal models before finecast. I did get the big mek and it was fine. I take it there are lapses in quality.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I wish GW would take their cap in their hands, stand up and say 'we recognise there are problems with this and we're going to take action', instead of waving their hands around like Obi-Wan, telling us there isn't a problem and trying to get us to buy the newly marketed repair kits.

*gulps Kool-AId*

But Finecast is the greatest revolution in miniature gaming since the last thing GW did that was the greatest revolution in miniature gaming.

They have so much more detail, they're lighter, don't break, are easier to put together, and the material is cheaper so GW will pass the savings onto themselves the customers. So the odd bubble or missing hand or unusable weapon shows up - that's part of the fun of the HHHobby. Just use the convenient and low-price clean-up kit and liquid greenstuff to fix the problems, or sculpt new pieces where they are missing detail/the bits are a dead-loss. Sculpting is easy!

I've bought 3 finecast models all of them had some form of defect either major or minor. All 3 of these blisters cost about 4 US dollars more then their metal counter parts, which i happen to have a few of. The price you pay for cheaper material and a crummier product should be cheaper not 1/4 more than before. If i spend 25 dollars on anything it must be in good shape or im not buying more.

So far I've managed to get away with only buying 2 finecast miniatures (hooray for playing Tau in 40K, pretty much an all plastic army except for the odd metal bit).

One was the Dark Elf Dreadlord on Cold One. This one was really good. No destroyed detail, small bubbles on the bottom of his cloak, Cold One was flawless. The bubbles on the cloak didn't matter as I cut it off and replaced it with a Sea Dragon Cloak anyway.

The other one was a War Hydra. This one was not quite so good. The beastmasters both had air bubbles destroying their fingers on the arms holding their whips. On the Hydra itself, there was a small bubble in one of the claws, easily fixed with liquid green stuff and some bubbled scales at the join for the tail. Most annoying was that the numbers on the sprue for the Hydra heads had been obliterated by excess resin, so I had to match the heads to their slots by comparing them to my assembled metal Hydra.

I personally am buying several Space Wolf figures today that are advertised as about to be recast in FC, as I have absolutely no wish to pay the 30% price increase they are being advertised as having, and then having to fix the flaws in them that I can guarantee won't exist in the metal ones.... and then worrying about small details (like lightning claw blades) getting broken off later, if they aren't already warped and miscast/broken when they arrive.

This is getting seriously stupid, people.

Today I went to get that nice limited edition marine. Always loved the rogue trader cover, and feel like doing one of these for GD. And it's been my birthday. Wanted a new toy of my own, as opposed to commission stuff.

Asked a staffer when I walk into Warhammer World what the casting rate is like on them. 100%, I'm told they're told. Heh.

Anyway, bought and OPENED IN STORE. First impressions were good, but it turns out the bottom of one of the greaves was borked, and the resin scenic base has a real thin spot. There was probably more, but store lighting at WHW is dire.
So, I go up to the counter. 'Can I have this replaced please?' (holding just the marine).
'No, sorry you have to go through customer services, 'cos it's limited edition.'
'That's awkward'
'Yeah, we know, sorry.'
I take a look at the fairly long queue... 'Can I have a full refund then please?'
'Yes, of course'.
'Cool, can I spend the refund immediately on another marine please?'
'Uhm, yess...'
'Bit of a pointless policy that then, isn't it?'


So, long story short, the second one comes out and seems to be cast better. Looking at it at home though, there's a fair few bubbles I didn't notice. Time to begin the replacements cycle. I've emailed off the pics below. I could probably fix all of these in a couple of hours' work, but for a £20 SINGLE FIGURE MODEL, I ain't gonna. These are just some of the bubbles too, there's a lot more on the base (mostly very easy fixes, so not of any concern).












So I'm going through the CS mill anyway it seems. Stupid Finecast.