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oni wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

oni wrote:Just bought and received a box of Space Marine Vanguard Vets... NOT A SINGLE USABLE PART IN THE WHOLE BOX!

Pathetic is too kind a word to describe this box of Vets.

I called customer service and was asked which parts have issues so that he could pull those parts and send them to me.

There was a period of silence when I explained that he'll need to pull every part to every model as nothing is usable.

I was then asked if I had the models in front of me. I called from work and so didn't have them. After explaining this I was asked to call back when I had the models. I'll be calling once I'm home and will post the outcome.

Actually before you start posting stuff off, won't they accept a photograph as proof?

UPDATE:

After calling back and speaking with the same customer service rep. he started by asking me to describe all of the flaws on each model and each part. I was incredibly annoyed by this and immediately exclaimed that I would not do any such thing as it's a complete waste of my time. I could send pictures or return the item if GW sends me a paid return shipping label. He opted to have the item returned and I was emailed a paid shipping label. Once GW received the item he would be in contact to discuss their findings.

His last statement 'contact to discuss their findings' was a bit odd and having never been asked to return an item... I asked if the 'no questions asked' return policy for Failcast has changed? His reply was such that "Finecast no longer has issues", it was only the first batch and most of those casts have been reclaimed by GW. Failcast returns are now being screened so to speak. GW's intent is to have the customer service reps. make the determination if the model / bit needs replaced.

This of course put me into a frenzied rage as it is not GW's position to tell me whether or not their product is acceptable to ME. I ALONE MAKE THAT DETERMINATION!

I told the customer service rep. that I expect nothing less than perfection (i was exaggerating to express the severity of my displeasure) and should my replacements still not meet MY quality standards, I will be calling back for further replacements and the call will not pleasurable for any party.

UPDATE 2:

I think I may need to eat crow on this one as there was a misunderstanding of this "screening process". After seeing my returned package had arrived at GW, but not receiving a phone call; I took the initiative and called the customer service rep. myself. I received a plausible explanation as to why I didn't receive a call, but this wasn't my main concern. I couldn't get this splinter out of my thoughts that they were screening the returns. The customer service rep. elaborated as to what this meant and assuaged my fears.

The 'screening' process so to speak is for unfortunate issues such as mine where a larger Finecast box has been purchased and all of the parts are allegedly defunct. GW has the box returned for 'documentation' to be forwarded onto GW UK HQ. The models are not being screened in the sense that GW will deny a return.

I'll follow up further once I have a new set in hand.

That actually makes sense, and is a decent way to see where issue are. If they're seeing the same boxes returned, and seeing where the issues with them are, they can tell HQ where they need to fix their gak.

One thing they did when I called about my Varghulf was ask specifically what component was miscast, where on the component it was, and what kind of miscast it was.

-Loki- wrote:That actually makes sense, and is a decent way to see where issue are. If they're seeing the same boxes returned, and seeing where the issues with them are, they can tell HQ where they need to fix their gak.

One thing they did when I called about my Varghulf was ask specifically what component was miscast, where on the component it was, and what kind of miscast it was.

You know if they would look at the things before they packaged them they might get a better picture of the real issue! To look for the cause for these specific models at this point is almost useless. At the rate GW is producing minis, the molds that made those models were sent to the bin a long time ago. Maybe they could determine if the master is the problem, but not the molds themselves.

NoArmorSave wrote:I have no problem buying Finecast. If there are any defects whatsoever, GW will send out an entire new model or at the very least, replacement parts.
If the new models arrive in defective condition, we will do it again. GW will be financing a lot of extra models\parts in my army on their dime.

If there ever comes a time when they change their customer service policies because of the volume of Finecast complaints, I will procede with charging
back my credit card. Either way, I win

Don't take this the wrong way:

but ordering a model
paying $50
waiting a week
having it arrive unusuable
having GWS send out a replacement
waiting a week
replacement also unusable
GWS (hypothetically) now refuses to fix it further
contacting your bank
having them do a chargeback that takes about 2 weeks...

That doesn't add up to a "win" for me. In the end, you got a useless model, a useless replacement, wasted a month, and got no compensation other than your own money back.

Granted GWS has not been refusing (yet) to fix the flaws, but that was the hypothetical situation you laid out.


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oni wrote:The 'screening' process so to speak is for unfortunate issues such as mine where a larger Finecast box has been purchased and all of the parts are allegedly defunct. GW has the box returned for 'documentation' to be forwarded onto GW UK HQ. The models are not being screened in the sense that GW will deny a return.

This makes a lot of sense to me. With all the bad things GWS does, customer services has never been one of them. I'd consider them tied with Newegg for best customer service overall.

brettz123 wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:

Chapterhouse cast in both Resin and Metal, heck I do the metal in house, I dont have the facilities to do resin casting myself. The cost of metal has not skyrocketed to the point that GW was not making a LOT of profit off of its metal figure prices. Hell, from experience I can tell you the $20 GW was charging for lets say a Hive Guard metal figure, was probably netting them about $15-16 profit if you counted the full production cost of the figure (design, packaging and casting). I will not comment on GW not-so-thought-out retail operations and the expense to run them.

I just wanted to quote this and point out that I can have a miniature of that size cast in metal for around $6 USD. I do not own my own production facilities and I do not have them produced in large numbers and still it would cost me about $6. So the story about GW having to switch is complete bull.............

Possibly true if you are making one miniature, but when you make 100,000+ per year (?) then your material costs really matter. Stability of material cost or even reducing them is a big deal to any company, especially a sizable one.

I ordered £250,00 of steel a year and a half ago, it cost £280,00 when it arrived on site 6 months later. I don't think I could have gotten away with replacing it with bubbly resin, but if there was some way of saving that £30k I would have been open to it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:............loads of good points........

What puzzles me about the returns with GW, which on the face of it are good CS, is that people are not complaigning further about the hassle and seeking further recourse if they are only getting a replacement.

For example I recently did not get three pair of shoes I order from a department store but they held on to my money. I called them up threw a few feths down the phone at them and asked them what they were ging to do about it. I got my oder plus a £5 voucher to cover calls/hassle etc. Not a huge amount but it mofre than covered the effort.

On the odd occassion over the last 25 eyars that I have had cause to call GW CS I have always got more than I was complaining about. Admittedly this was GWs good efforts rather than be being a whiner. So my Epic Leman Russ comapny missing one turret was replaced by another whole company box.

If GW replace a miscast model after I have returned it I would expect something to cover my efforts (admittedly this will probably be a voucher for full price GW stuff ).

notprop wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:

Chapterhouse cast in both Resin and Metal, heck I do the metal in house, I dont have the facilities to do resin casting myself. The cost of metal has not skyrocketed to the point that GW was not making a LOT of profit off of its metal figure prices. Hell, from experience I can tell you the $20 GW was charging for lets say a Hive Guard metal figure, was probably netting them about $15-16 profit if you counted the full production cost of the figure (design, packaging and casting). I will not comment on GW not-so-thought-out retail operations and the expense to run them.

I just wanted to quote this and point out that I can have a miniature of that size cast in metal for around $6 USD. I do not own my own production facilities and I do not have them produced in large numbers and still it would cost me about $6. So the story about GW having to switch is complete bull.............

Possibly true if you are making one miniature, but when you make 100,000+ per year (?) then your material costs really matter. Stability of material cost or even reducing them is a big deal to any company, especially a sizable one.

I ordered £250,00 of steel a year and a half ago, it cost £280,00 when it arrived on site 6 months later. I don't think I could have gotten away with replacing it with bubbly resin, but if there was some way of saving that £30k I would have been open to it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
.

Oh I agree that it is saving them money. That I don't doubt and it probably is substantial amount. I was just illustrating that saying GW "had to" do the switch was erroneous.

oni wrote:The 'screening' process so to speak is for unfortunate issues such as mine where a larger Finecast box has been purchased and all of the parts are allegedly defunct. GW has the box returned for 'documentation' to be forwarded onto GW UK HQ. The models are not being screened in the sense that GW will deny a return.

That doesn't sound as bad as it did, in my opinion. I still hate the fact that we're expected to be out even more money in shipping costs for their screw-ups, but if it means (theoretically) that we won't be dealing with this crap in the future, then fine, whatever. Though I honestly doubt their screening will actually do a damn thing.

I took a better look at my DE lhamaean under the lamp earlier and it's got way more holes than I first thought. Just about every detail you can think of has a hole in it: her nose and every spike in her armor has a hole in it like I said, but there's also a hole in her chin (don't know how the hell I missed that when I looked at the face the first time), her shirt collar, most of the bumps in her sword handle, one or two of her fingers grasping said sword handle, lots of holes in her hair (and even a sizable chunk of her hair is missing, up close to her right arm on the back of the model), one of the decorative bits in her hair (it's painted silver on the 'Eavy Metal model, half of that thing is gone on my model), half of the little tag on her anklet is missing because of a bubble, her sword scabbard has a large hole in the side and the ropes/tassels attached to it have tiny holes...it's almost kinda funny how every time you pick up a Finecast model you just keep finding more god-damned flaws in it. It's the main reason why my Finecast incubi are still sitting in their boxes and I have no desire at all to do anything with them. And I remind you this was a newer cast, the medusae I bought was actually in somewhat better shape and it has a 000000 batch code, so I assume it was part of the infamous first batch and had been sitting in the store for a while.

I might end up calling them over the lhamaean. Even if it were possible to fix all the holes, I really shouldn't have to be going through the trouble for what I paid, and spending a few hours on this one piece model that in all reality should have just needed to be cleaned and glued to a base. I'll gladly ship it back to them if they want me to, hopefully someone will see what they're attaching their name to and do something about it. I might hold off until I can take a picture of it first, though, but I don't actually own a camera so I have to wait until I can borrow one from someone I know. lol

As I said in an earlier post you need to look hard at these models before accepting them, preferably under magnification and good lighting. It very easy to miss small bubbles with a casual look and you won't notice them until you get a coat of primer on it when they often become blindingly obvious...

Tim

Sidstyler wrote:
I took a better look at my DE lhamaean under the lamp earlier and it's got way more holes than I first thought. Just about every detail you can think of has a hole in it: her nose and every spike in her armor has a hole in it like I said, but there's also a hole in her chin (don't know how the hell I missed that when I looked at the face the first time), her shirt collar, most of the bumps in her sword handle, one or two of her fingers grasping said sword handle, lots of holes in her hair (and even a sizable chunk of her hair is missing, up close to her right arm on the back of the model), one of the decorative bits in her hair (it's painted silver on the 'Eavy Metal model, half of that thing is gone on my model), half of the little tag on her anklet is missing because of a bubble, her sword scabbard has a large hole in the side and the ropes/tassels attached to it have tiny holes...it's almost kinda funny how every time you pick up a Finecast model you just keep finding more god-damned flaws in it.

My Varghulf replacement body turned up at my fiancees parents house today. I'll have a report tonight if it's any better.


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Aaaaand it has 2 small airbubbles on the right shoulder. These are tiny, however - I honestly didn't see them until I remembered someone pointed out that air bubbles are shiny. They just look like grooves in the hair. Not enough for me to send it back and wait another 2 weeks for again.

Also confirming that they're only sending the miscast component now - all I got was the main body.

Heh, I had a quick look in the shop when I bought a boxed set of Marneus Calgar and Honour Guard but it wasn't until I got home that I noticed that half the vent on top of one of the helmets was missing and a cuff had a huge hole in it. While neither defect should be present for the price they ask both are easily fixed and I didn't complain. It's a pity if more major concerns are still out there as it's a great medium that seems to give sharper detail than the metal.

cadbren wrote: It's a pity if more major concerns are still out there as it's a great medium that seems to give sharper detail than the metal.

I wish people wouldn't keep touting this myth. See the following:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/372246.page#2865711

All the side by side comparisons of metal and Finecast that have been primed seem to show very little discernible difference between the two.

filbert wrote:

cadbren wrote: It's a pity if more major concerns are still out there as it's a great medium that seems to give sharper detail than the metal.

I wish people wouldn't keep touting this myth. See the following:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/372246.page#2865711

All the side by side comparisons of metal and Finecast that have been primed seem to show very little discernible difference between the two.

It is not a myth. It depends on the model in question, but in general, there is a substantial amount of additional detail present with Finecast. Metal just can't compete
with resin in this area.

It is a superior product; assuming you don't get a flawed specimen.

NoArmorSave wrote:

Metal just can't compete with resin in this area.

I think Reaper Miniatures would like to have a word with you, as well as the guys from Wyrd, Privateer Press, Corvus Belli, Cipher Studios, etc., etc.

NoArmorSave wrote:

It is not a myth. It depends on the model in question, but in general, there is a substantial amount of additional detail present with Finecast. Metal just can't compete
with resin in this area.

It is a superior product; assuming you don't get a flawed specimen.

Tosh. Finecast use the same moulds that metal do. There is by definition no 'additional detail'. It looks better to the naked eye because of the way the light is reflected. Prime 2 identical miniatures, one finecast and one metal, stand them side by side and then see if there is any difference.

In fact, you don't have to, someone already did it:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/372163.page#2881499

Barring some casting flaws, there is no discernible difference. GW want you to think finecast is supremely detailed because it makes the job of having to get your flawed minis replaced a little easier to stomach if you think you are getting a superior product.

Man, that thread irritated me. Two models side by side which have practically no differences between them, and people still insist the Finecast one (obvious because it's missing part of its face) has more detail. I know my eyes are bad but come the feth on...

I think the only reason some models look better in Finecast is because they got new molds and nothing more, personally.

NoArmorSave wrote:It is not a myth. It depends on the model in question, but in general, there is a substantial amount of additional detail present with Finecast. Metal just can't compete
with resin in this area.

It is a superior product; assuming you don't get a flawed specimen.

It's a myth. Finecast did not bring out any 'missing' detail on existing models that have been recast in it. From Tyranids to Tau, from IG to GK there has been no extra detail that people hadn't noticed before. Now, it may allow for things to be cast more sharp (such as claws, blades etc) and it may allow for future sculpts to be a lot more sharp and angular but for existing ones it's a myth that comes with the standard price hike.

And the ratio of flawed specimens has ALWAYS been the main issue here. It just shouldn't be that high for how they touted it. Most here would agree if their quality control was half as good as their PR boasts then there would be no issue. It is a nicer medium to work with. It does make larger models easier to assemble and to work with. It does allow for converting opportunities that would have been madness in metal....but it does not give any more detail to an existing model.

Finecast has a few advantages over metal;
1) Its light weight. This should allow for much more dynamic posing of models, and more top-heavy designs.

2) Its easy of cutting. This should allow for much easier conversions.

3) Its ease of gluing. The porous nature of the material takes superglue very well indeed. For many models, this should be a godsend. Heaven knows a metal Urien Rackarth was a pain to assemble.

BUT.

The situations where (1) is useful tend to reveal a major problem with either the material itself or the mixes used; pliability causing warping, especially when warmed.

(2) The soft material is great for cutting. Appalling for abrasion with anything but the finest grit abrasives. Fixing surfaces with liquid greenstuff (I do honestly like that stuff) is one thing, but to resculpt a sharp edge is a pain in the arse.

I'm still unsure as to whether the warping / bendiness problem is inherent to the material or to mixes used, or models being pulled from the mould before the resin is cured enough. Both those things cause similar issues with standard PU resin casting.

I've seen (on the models I've looked at) evidence of Finecast having a concave meniscus (if you imagine 'inside corner' recesses to be deeper that is pretty much the result on a casting); this does in theory allow for sharper edges on things like straps, more distinct hair strands and so on, and from a painter's point of view, that's great for putting a pin wash into to get even sharper detail out of it. Until the commonly documented problems are fixed though, this can only ever be a minor thing to notice - a pig with lipstick on is still a pig.

As others are saying though, it's not going to magically make the original sculpts better.

I bought two characters from my local store the other day to make a conversion out of and have to say they weren't as bad as I was expecting...however that said some areas were a little too thin, minor details had chipped slightly...would be fine for table-top use by an average painter but these pieces are ment to be show-stoppers and the price just does not justify the quality...why make a character that detailed and then not be able to re-produce it?! I decided not to use them in the end and find plastic alts instead...I'd rather have less detail done correctly...bit of a waste of £20+ though...fail!

I have just purchased my first and hopefully last finecast items. 2 boxes of Flamers of Tezeentch. They just came in after a month of back order, so they are new stock. Compared to first run finecast, they are much better, just based on seeing pictures and other peoples earlier models.

Now I have experience with mould making and resin casting on a production level, so I immediately saw the flaws and what they were caused by.

Firstly, the material they are using for the moulds themselves is one of the worst possible of products for the application, there were pink chunks of it attached to my models and I recognized it immediately as OOMOO 20. It is an ok product for a hobbyist making prototypes, but it is not a production quality material, the future casts from the mould mine came out of will have further problems because of the now missing pieces of mould. This is esily remedied by them taking the time to make the moulds out of another of many mould silicones with a higher shore hardness. Even OOMOO 30 is a drasticly better step in the right direction, but is still considered a hobby level mould product, not meant for large production runs.

Secondly, air bubbles immediately noticable, and mostly on the underside of things, or undercut portions of the models, which makes sense given how they are casting them. These cutbacks will always have the problem of catching air bubbles. The only way to really fix this is through extreme pressure, one of the reasons why injection cast plastic models are free of them (all the other GW plastic models). In they insist on continuing to use resin, they are going to need to invest in pressure pots of some sort. I would also suggest long set resin where the pot life is several hours, because you can vacuum it to remove air bubbles from mixing it before you pour it. Then when poured and pressurized bubbles will decrease. Also they can rotate and tip the moulds to help air escape the undercuts without fear of it setting up too fast.

Thirdly, the resin itsself. I think they could use a much better resin for about the same price. The finecast resin has a very low shore hardness, which makes it subject to easy marring, and the bending issues. Injection mould plastic (ABS) of the main line of GW models has a much higher shore hardness. I hear people complain that the finecast is brittle, that is not the correct word, it is much less brittle than the regular ABS plastic. The tensile and tear strength of the resin they are currently using is also much lower. Again a problem easily fixed by switching to a different resin product.

Last but not least, the Flamers of Tzeentch have whispy bits that curl around them, basically raised hair like things. On a couple of the models, these are not really attached down as a solid piece to the models because of the shape causing a little bit of a circle attached side to side with another circle, basically very little point of attachment. While cleaning mould lines, these seperated and are now floating rather loosely, while still attached at the primary end. This is another problem that can be solved through proper pressurization of the casting. I think they are pressurizing, which is why the issues with bubbles are lessened from the first runs, but it is still not enough. The current mould material will not hold up well to higher pressurization unless they have a proper support frame encasing it.

Resin casting is a labour intensive process with quite a few steps involved, and a lot of waiting around for things to be done enough to remove from moulds. There is really no automation, but the startup costs are low, something you would expect of a small startup company. ABS injection moulding is very quick with mostly automation and rather intantaneos results, but the startup costs are very high, something you would expect from a large established company. Times are tough though, so I understand the GW desire to cut some corners, but they are very much out of their element right now, and it is showing in much reduced quality in their products.

Friend of mine bought a metal Crowe, and part of it was miscast. He got a replacement, but the replacement was Finecost. It was also badly miscast.

Luckily enough, the Finecost body and the metal sword arm were fine, so now he has a resin/metal hybrid Crowe. It's weird.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:I have just purchased my first and hopefully last finecast items. 2 boxes of Flamers of Tezeentch. They just came in after a month of back order, so they are new stock. Compared to first run finecast, they are much better, just based on seeing pictures and other peoples earlier models.

Now I have experience with mould making and resin casting on a production level, so I immediately saw the flaws and what they were caused by.

Firstly, the material they are using for the moulds themselves is one of the worst possible of products for the application, there were pink chunks of it attached to my models and I recognized it immediately as OOMOO 20. It is an ok product for a hobbyist making prototypes, but it is not a production quality material, the future casts from the mould mine came out of will have further problems because of the now missing pieces of mould. This is esily remedied by them taking the time to make the moulds out of another of many mould silicones with a higher shore hardness. Even OOMOO 30 is a drasticly better step in the right direction, but is still considered a hobby level mould product, not meant for large production runs.

Secondly, air bubbles immediately noticable, and mostly on the underside of things, or undercut portions of the models, which makes sense given how they are casting them. These cutbacks will always have the problem of catching air bubbles. The only way to really fix this is through extreme pressure, one of the reasons why injection cast plastic models are free of them (all the other GW plastic models). In they insist on continuing to use resin, they are going to need to invest in pressure pots of some sort. I would also suggest long set resin where the pot life is several hours, because you can vacuum it to remove air bubbles from mixing it before you pour it. Then when poured and pressurized bubbles will decrease. Also they can rotate and tip the moulds to help air escape the undercuts without fear of it setting up too fast.

Thirdly, the resin itsself. I think they could use a much better resin for about the same price. The finecast resin has a very low shore hardness, which makes it subject to easy marring, and the bending issues. Injection mould plastic (ABS) of the main line of GW models has a much higher shore hardness. I hear people complain that the finecast is brittle, that is not the correct word, it is much less brittle than the regular ABS plastic. The tensile and tear strength of the resin they are currently using is also much lower. Again a problem easily fixed by switching to a different resin product.

Last but not least, the Flamers of Tzeentch have whispy bits that curl around them, basically raised hair like things. On a couple of the models, these are not really attached down as a solid piece to the models because of the shape causing a little bit of a circle attached side to side with another circle, basically very little point of attachment. While cleaning mould lines, these seperated and are now floating rather loosely, while still attached at the primary end. This is another problem that can be solved through proper pressurization of the casting. I think they are pressurizing, which is why the issues with bubbles are lessened from the first runs, but it is still not enough. The current mould material will not hold up well to higher pressurization unless they have a proper support frame encasing it.

Resin casting is a labour intensive process with quite a few steps involved, and a lot of waiting around for things to be done enough to remove from moulds. There is really no automation, but the startup costs are low, something you would expect of a small startup company. ABS injection moulding is very quick with mostly automation and rather intantaneos results, but the startup costs are very high, something you would expect from a large established company. Times are tough though, so I understand the GW desire to cut some corners, but they are very much out of their element right now, and it is showing in much reduced quality in their products.

Games Workshop should hire you to work in their casting plant. I am amazed that they are using this quality of product for the moulds and resin. Surely, they must be aware of these things?

You would think that they are aware, considering that Forge World is one of their companies. I kind of wonder, and really hope that this is a stop gap measure between running out of white metal to cast with and them getting new scuplts to do injection moulds of for 6th ed.

I have no interest in working for GW at this time, they should begin by making me an offer and I will consider it.

I just had a though, and I am not endorsing it by any means. GW has set themselves up to be counterfeited since they are using materials and techniques readily available by the average person. I could if I wanted to, just start cranking out "finecast", then undercut GW on the price like one of those discount stores online, and people wouldn't even know the difference. I am pretty sure I know which resin they are using, but I will not be publically stating it so as to discourage the just mentioned behavior.

NoArmorSave wrote:Surely, they must be aware of these things?

Im sure GW knows. Behind every large company is an employee(or more) whos ensuring that a good quality product hits the shelf. The only thing standing between him and success are the guys from Upper Management and the Shareholders.

DISCLAIMER: Im probably the first guy to bash GW but I doubt GW knew they were putting out a crap product from the get-go. They probably believed in Finecast as a process and probably had good reason to. The problems with the product just scream "bad decisions from suits" to me.

Shadowseer_Kim - found your comments very interesting as someone who appears to have industry experience. I'd just point out that GW and others use regular polystyrene rather than ABS, but the manufacturing processes you describe make sense, as do your suggestions for improvement...

The idea that GW are cutting corners on the mould materials hadn't really occurred to me. I don't really recognise the pink mould material, when I saw GW casting some years ago the moulds were a dark grey.

Probably right about the polysterene, the injection moulding process is still the same. The materials are similiar enough in look and feel at first glance.

As one of the people that used to turn the crank on the propaganda machine for a large corporation, I will tell you this from experience:

No decision made by a publicly-traded company will ever be made in favour of a universally superior product; the product will only be superior as a function of its cost.

That means a company will never produce an 8/10 product for $4.00, if they can produce a 6/10 product for $2.00. This product is technically superior, but only as a function of its production cost. Now, if both the 8/10 and the 6/10 product can both be sold for $5.00, then anyone in the company that attempts to produce the 8/10 product will no longer be employed in said company, as the shareholders will not allow it. However, this phenomenon can be negated if the difference between the two products is significant enough to adversely affect sales, in which case there would be little point to making the change. Therefore, the cheapest way to ensure that sales do not decrease along with the quality is marketing. This is why you get Finecast:

Finecast offers at best the same quality of model as the metal castings, and at worst a slightly more flawed version. However the resin casting is far cheaper for GW to produce than are the metal castings. But consumers generally dislike buying something of lesser quality for the same price, and get furious when they are asked to pay even more to get less. No matter how much a company begs and pleads, the idea that "we want to make more money at the expense of someone else (such as the consumer if need be)" will never sit well with the public. However, few people will think critically about a product, which makes it very easy to convince people that up is down and black is white. In fact, all it takes is repetition.

And that is why the idea that "Finecast is of a superior quality" keeps popping up without any evidence proving that statement to be correct:

"All propaganda will be unsuccessful unless a single principle is recited in mind constantly. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them."

I think this is the most intelligent post I have ever seen on a forum. It illustrates corporate mindset flawlessly. And it shows why it is so important for threads like this to exist. We must continue to make the public understand that we are in fact paying a significant amount more for a product that is, in fact, less than what we had. The only way it is going to improve is if GW sees a drop in sales large enough to get the stock holders attention. So I say everyone should refuse to buy Failcast until we see this change. It will never happen, but it is a nice thought.

Wow, Az. That was pretty damn impressive.

infinite_array wrote:Wow, Az. That was pretty damn impressive cynical and accurate.

There, I fixed that for you.

But thank you. I like to think I got away from that job before my soul was completely eaten by a nihilistic office culture.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote: I could if I wanted to, just start cranking out "finecast", then undercut GW on the price like one of those discount stores online, and people wouldn't even know the difference. I am pretty sure I know which resin they are using, but I will not be publically stating it so as to discourage the just mentioned behavior.

But we would know because your desire to produce a good item would over-power your ability to crank out faulty toss. Thus in a reversal of the usual situation, your "pirate" copy would stand out by being the better of the two casts.