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2014/02/04 03:22:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Another quick recap from last night's battle - (Trust me this one was NOT worth a photo batrep).
Myself and a friend both brought lists with the intent of playing another person - when he didn't show up for either game, we played each other instead.
VS
Dark eldar RaiderSpam
7x raiders - 4 with kabalites, 3 with trueborn, each with as many blasters as could fit
3x ravagers with triple dark lance
Razorwing jetfighter
So from the beginning i knew i was prettymuch going to lose. I got 1st turn, and I swooped all 4 MC's forward but he had castled in a corner, so nothing was in range to shoot (oh all his skimmers had night shields!). I ran forward, and ended my turn. What i SHOULD have done was fly off the table with all 4 FMC's to come in on turn 2 with my outflanking tervigon and termagants. But i didn't do that.
His first shooting was 8 splinter rifle shots at my warlord. He hit 4 times with snapfire. Wounded 3 times. I failed ALL THREE armor saves, Failed my ground check, and took a wound. Dead warlord. It took slightly more shooting but he also got rid of my other hive tyrant by the end of his first shooting phase. The rest of the game was prettymuch him picking off my MC's one by one, forcing grounding tests on my flyers and then finishing them off with blasters and dark lances. By the time the game ended all i had was a tervigon hiding behind a LOS blocking wall and about 30-40 termagants. it wasn't enough though because he had first blood, warlord, and 3 of 5 objectives, and had only lost 2 kabalite warriors and 1 raider by the time the game was over.
Dark eldar can and do still curbstomp nids so hard. It was brutal.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/02/04 15:32:05
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
HEAVY
-2 Carnifexes (Stranglethorn Cannon)
-2 Carnifexes (Stranglethorn Cannon)
against
Tigurius
Calgar
2 stern guard pods (melta)
1 tactical pod (melta)
3 grav centurians
2 thunderfire cannons
a stormtalon
and a bunch more tac marines (heavy bolters?)
Basically, I castled up, hid my venoms in some ruins, and went to town on the 2+ cover save the whole game...I left all termagants in reserve (thunderfires) and outflanked a tervigon.
Basically, I forced the sternguard to drop in his backfield as I had 2+ cover fexes ready for any kind of drop, centurions had to walk forward to get LOS or range, because they're so easy to outrange with stranglethorns and barbed stranglers. I kept pinning marines, and when the centurions came forward and thought they were safe, the tyrants stopped sitting back and just buffing, and finally pounced and muderfaced some centurions. Pulling them away allowed my tervigon to outflank and spawn termagants in thunderfire cannon face...I promptly shot a bunch of marines and charged them both next turn...killing one with the tervigon and tying the other ups with gants squads...60 termagants came in on the board near the norn tervigon and progressed towards his backfield with ease. Warriors just sat back and scored, killed some marines, but mostly just sat there. One of my tyrants died to stormtalon fire and my other one managed to shoot it in the back to get rid of it and psychic shriek 4 squads at once...that...was the move that broke the game.
I had synapse coming out of my ears, the norn crown was definitely not needed, though it did help the gants move forwar with only one synapse source.
omerakk wrote: Has anyone been having much luck with raveners at all?
I've seen Jy mention them, but I haven't really seen any lists or reports showing what they are capable of
They've actually been doing well for me. I've ran them 3 times so far:
Game #1 vs Triptide Tau. They did well, munching 1 unit of kroots, pathfinders and a unit of broadsides.
Game #2 vs Triptide Tau. This time, my opponent was wiser to the raveners and made it a priority to take them out. It didn't help my cause when he seized the initiative on me, catching my bugs with their pants down.
Game #3 vs IG. MVP's of the game. Raveners + Red Terror took out 6-7 VP's worth of units, scored an objective because of the Scouring and swept a bunch of guardsmen off objectives. The Red Terror didn't really do all that much but that was because he wasn't needed to. Anything unit that the raveners touched just evaporated.
If you run them, give them rending claws and that's all. I prefer to run them in at least units of 5+. They were actually pretty good last edition and they continue to remain good in this edition.
Dozer Blades wrote: I'm planning to test them as soon as I get the Red Terror.
I like to run him in fun, casual games. Seeing him swallow an enemy character whole is priceless. However, for competitive games, he is not really necessary.
tetrisphreak wrote: Another quick recap from last night's battle - (Trust me this one was NOT worth a photo batrep).
Myself and a friend both brought lists with the intent of playing another person - when he didn't show up for either game, we played each other instead.
VS
Dark eldar RaiderSpam
7x raiders - 4 with kabalites, 3 with trueborn, each with as many blasters as could fit
3x ravagers with triple dark lance
Razorwing jetfighter
So from the beginning i knew i was prettymuch going to lose. I got 1st turn, and I swooped all 4 MC's forward but he had castled in a corner, so nothing was in range to shoot (oh all his skimmers had night shields!). I ran forward, and ended my turn. What i SHOULD have done was fly off the table with all 4 FMC's to come in on turn 2 with my outflanking tervigon and termagants. But i didn't do that.
His first shooting was 8 splinter rifle shots at my warlord. He hit 4 times with snapfire. Wounded 3 times. I failed ALL THREE armor saves, Failed my ground check, and took a wound. Dead warlord. It took slightly more shooting but he also got rid of my other hive tyrant by the end of his first shooting phase. The rest of the game was prettymuch him picking off my MC's one by one, forcing grounding tests on my flyers and then finishing them off with blasters and dark lances. By the time the game ended all i had was a tervigon hiding behind a LOS blocking wall and about 30-40 termagants. it wasn't enough though because he had first blood, warlord, and 3 of 5 objectives, and had only lost 2 kabalite warriors and 1 raider by the time the game was over.
Dark eldar can and do still curbstomp nids so hard. It was brutal.
Ouch. DE continues to be an uphill battle for bugs. Raider-spam actually isn't as bad if you've got venomthropes in your army, but venom-spam is just brutal.
Our best strategy against DE may be a denial game. Yeah, I agree that flying your FMC's off the table would have been a better option.
HEAVY
-2 Carnifexes (Stranglethorn Cannon)
-2 Carnifexes (Stranglethorn Cannon)
against
Tigurius
Calgar
2 stern guard pods (melta)
1 tactical pod (melta)
3 grav centurians
2 thunderfire cannons
a stormtalon
and a bunch more tac marines (heavy bolters?)
Basically, I castled up, hid my venoms in some ruins, and went to town on the 2+ cover save the whole game...I left all termagants in reserve (thunderfires) and outflanked a tervigon.
Basically, I forced the sternguard to drop in his backfield as I had 2+ cover fexes ready for any kind of drop, centurions had to walk forward to get LOS or range, because they're so easy to outrange with stranglethorns and barbed stranglers. I kept pinning marines, and when the centurions came forward and thought they were safe, the tyrants stopped sitting back and just buffing, and finally pounced and muderfaced some centurions. Pulling them away allowed my tervigon to outflank and spawn termagants in thunderfire cannon face...I promptly shot a bunch of marines and charged them both next turn...killing one with the tervigon and tying the other ups with gants squads...60 termagants came in on the board near the norn tervigon and progressed towards his backfield with ease. Warriors just sat back and scored, killed some marines, but mostly just sat there. One of my tyrants died to stormtalon fire and my other one managed to shoot it in the back to get rid of it and psychic shriek 4 squads at once...that...was the move that broke the game.
I had synapse coming out of my ears, the norn crown was definitely not needed, though it did help the gants move forwar with only one synapse source.
Congrats. I'm finding bugs can compete with most MEQ armies.
BTW, your opponent must be new with Marines. In an army with Marneus Calgar, they can chose to auto-pass or auto-fail all Morale and Pinning tests. Thus, his marines should never be pinned unless he voluntarily chooses to do so.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/02/04 16:47:44
Raider-spam actually isn't as bad if you've got venomthropes in your army, but venom-spam is just brutal.
Yep. I think you were a bit unlucky. I've seen seven raiders not even do a wound on a Flyrant. Venoms are definitely the worst of the two transports for Nids. Tau and DE are just not friendly matches for Nids.
2014/02/04 17:01:30
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
jy2 wrote:.
They've actually been doing well for me. I've ran them 3 times so far:
Game #1 vs Triptide Tau. They did well, munching 1 unit of kroots, pathfinders and a unit of broadsides.
Game #2 vs Triptide Tau. This time, my opponent was wiser to the raveners and made it a priority to take them out. It didn't help my cause when he seized the initiative on me, catching my bugs with their pants down.
Game #3 vs IG. MVP's of the game. Raveners + Red Terror took out 6-7 VP's worth of units, scored an objective because of the Scouring and swept a bunch of guardsmen off objectives. The Red Terror didn't really do all that much but that was because he wasn't needed to. Anything unit that the raveners touched just evaporated.
If you run them, give them rending claws and that's all. I prefer to run them in at least units of 5+. They were actually pretty good last edition and they continue to remain good in this edition.
What did the rest of your list look like? I'm curious how you were able to keep pressure off of the raveners for the most part.
2014/02/04 17:10:01
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
jy2 wrote:.
They've actually been doing well for me. I've ran them 3 times so far:
Game #1 vs Triptide Tau. They did well, munching 1 unit of kroots, pathfinders and a unit of broadsides.
Game #2 vs Triptide Tau. This time, my opponent was wiser to the raveners and made it a priority to take them out. It didn't help my cause when he seized the initiative on me, catching my bugs with their pants down.
Game #3 vs IG. MVP's of the game. Raveners + Red Terror took out 6-7 VP's worth of units, scored an objective because of the Scouring and swept a bunch of guardsmen off objectives. The Red Terror didn't really do all that much but that was because he wasn't needed to. Anything unit that the raveners touched just evaporated.
If you run them, give them rending claws and that's all. I prefer to run them in at least units of 5+. They were actually pretty good last edition and they continue to remain good in this edition.
What did the rest of your list look like? I'm curious how you were able to keep pressure off of the raveners for the most part.
As below:
jy2 wrote: Just had a 1750 game. I was trying out the new Deathleaper formation.
My list wasn't really great, but it was just a few things I wanted to try out.
2x Dakka Flyrants (1 w/Psychic Scream, no Catalysts)
1x Venom
1x Zoan
4x10 Termagants
9x Raveners - Rending Claws
The Red Terror
1x Biovre
1x Mawloc
Bastion
Deathleaper Assassin formation (the one with -1 LD with12" of the brood):
Deathleaper
5x1 Lictors
You can also flip back to pg 34 for a more in depth overview.
jy2 wrote:.
They've actually been doing well for me. I've ran them 3 times so far:
Game #1 vs Triptide Tau. They did well, munching 1 unit of kroots, pathfinders and a unit of broadsides.
Game #2 vs Triptide Tau. This time, my opponent was wiser to the raveners and made it a priority to take them out. It didn't help my cause when he seized the initiative on me, catching my bugs with their pants down.
Game #3 vs IG. MVP's of the game. Raveners + Red Terror took out 6-7 VP's worth of units, scored an objective because of the Scouring and swept a bunch of guardsmen off objectives. The Red Terror didn't really do all that much but that was because he wasn't needed to. Anything unit that the raveners touched just evaporated.
If you run them, give them rending claws and that's all. I prefer to run them in at least units of 5+. They were actually pretty good last edition and they continue to remain good in this edition.
What did the rest of your list look like? I'm curious how you were able to keep pressure off of the raveners for the most part.
It was mainly because my opponents were focused on the flyrants (always target priority #1) and also they weren't as familiar with the raveners.
Game #1 - 2K Double-FOC's:
4x Flyrants
1x Venom
1x Zoan
Tervigon
30x Gants
10x Gants
17x Gargoyles
2x5 Raveners - Rending
Bastion
Game #2 - Thanks, Ductvader. Check out his post above.
Game #3:
2x Flyrants
1x Venom
1x Zoan
Tervigon
30x Gants
10x Gants
23x Gargoyles
7x Raveners - Rending
2x Biovores
2x Dakkafexes
Bastion
BTW, there is a game #4 as well - against Reecius:
BTW, you can find a more in-depth analysis of the game and my strategy in the battle report thread:
Used a unit of 8 Raveners this weekend in a Hammer and Anvil game. I liked them, and they were surprisingly durable with Catalyst and VT support. Next time I'm going to field the Red Terror and also maybe bump the unit up to a full 9. My gut says that's the way to run them.
That comes in at 1500 total, seven MCs, pretty decent firepower and nicely splits into a hammer (three fliers) and anvil (three gun-beasts). The Tervigon and Termagants can be played fairly carefully, as I am pretty sure that the other monsters will be higher priority.
I've been trying out a melee Tyrant in my local area, and am actually really enjoying it. It plays very differently to the gun-beast Tyrant with Devourers, functioning more as a harasser of isolated targets at first and then an assassin when the moment is right (I've ID'd a good number of targets that thought they were sitting pretty thanks to his Sword and Toxin Sacks combo).
I've also been exploring Shreddershard swarms, and have been happily surprised. Electroshock and Dessicator also look fun, but the Shred/Rend combo more or less has me sold.
2014/02/04 20:41:04
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
I see everyone rushing their dual dakka flyrants up the board first thing, and for the most part one (if not both) of them is dead before turn three.
Why is this the case? Time after time I've had them get grounded by a lucky shot and then obliterated off the board with their measly four wounds. I get that the Devourers are a solid punch but the 18 inches is such a danger zone for an FMC in my opinion.
I view them as agents of opportunity, backfield with HVC or ST depending on the type of opponent and buffing friendlies and guiding what you need up the board. This feels easier with two or three Crones/Harpies going in first. Then moving in to aid in assaults once contact has been made.
Part of me even wants to drop the backup devourer for a lashwhip/bone sword so that the Tyrants can safely get into combat with other MC's. But then how do we effectively handle the likes of Stormravens?
I'm playing a 2500 point grudge match against Black Templars this weekend and I've got a lot of ideas going back and forth as to how I want to handle this.
Iechine wrote: Part of me even wants to drop the backup devourer for a lashwhip/bone sword so that the Tyrants can safely get into combat with other MC's. But then how do we effectively handle the likes of Stormravens?
I'm playing a 2500 point grudge match against Black Templars this weekend and I've got a lot of ideas going back and forth as to how I want to handle this.
A beefed up prime can deal an amazing amount of CC damage for the price of a stock tyrant (Adrenal, Toxin, Swords, Scytals does 5 S6 reroll to wound on t6 or lower attacks on the charge.
Mmm, the reason they are so forward is largely because the 'nid army is fast - Hormagaunts move fast, fleeting everything and its dog moves fast, outflankers, Deep Strikers...the Synapse needs to get there damn fast in order to be ready for them else they'll start squirrelling about and derping.
Plus they are our more reliable anti-Aircraft weapon in the game. They don't need to Vector Strike something to down it. They're an impressive BS 4 and twin-linked Devourers put out an impressive number of shots which makes the whole glance-pinging of lightly armoured flyers to death much more feasible (as they can switch to Skyfire mode at a whim).
That last bit is important actually. Flyrants are the only things we have that can accurately and reliably hit flyers at range. You'd think the crone and harpy...but they have template or blast weapons at range and to be fair I don't expect Crones to last long because of the threat of their S8 Vector strike...
Now only a CSM player.
2014/02/04 20:50:35
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
DarkStarSabre wrote: to be fair I don't expect Crones to last long because of the threat of their S8 Vector strike...
Crones have haywire missiles that are twin linked against fliers.
Point. They're still T5 with a 4+ save compared to the Flyrant's T6 and a 3+ save.
Other note: I want my friend to sort his funds out. We're doing a swap as it were - he's getting all my daemons and in return I'm getting an equal amount of Tyranids (Hive Tyrant, Exocrine, Crone :3)
Now only a CSM player.
2014/02/04 20:54:31
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
I absolutely love my Crones. The added benefit of people shooting at them and not my Tyrants is even better
As for Synapse, lately if I dont roll catalyst or onslaught then I pretty much choose primaris and cast that every turn...so needing them upfield immediately isnt quite as important, especially when my Fex gunline is not exactly the fasted moving thing on the board to begin with.
They are worth a lot more to me ALIVE than dead halfway through the game (and the Warlord point). Thus moving them in only when something has been properly tarpitted (like a RTide or wraithknight or whatever) and being able to instant kill is nice. Even better with the higher
initiative and toxin sacs letting me reroll to wound.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/04 20:56:39
DarkStarSabre wrote: to be fair I don't expect Crones to last long because of the threat of their S8 Vector strike...
Crones have haywire missiles that are twin linked against fliers.
Point. They're still T5 with a 4+ save compared to the Flyrant's T6 and a 3+ save.
They have to play the reserves game in a similar fashion to the crimson hunter, they want to come on second, which is great if you have second turn, but hey, if you have first turn with bugs you're finally at an advantage, I haven't gotten first turn in forever.
That comes in at 1500 total, seven MCs, pretty decent firepower and nicely splits into a hammer (three fliers) and anvil (three gun-beasts). The Tervigon and Termagants can be played fairly carefully, as I am pretty sure that the other monsters will be higher priority.
I've been trying out a melee Tyrant in my local area, and am actually really enjoying it. It plays very differently to the gun-beast Tyrant with Devourers, functioning more as a harasser of isolated targets at first and then an assassin when the moment is right (I've ID'd a good number of targets that thought they were sitting pretty thanks to his Sword and Toxin Sacks combo).
I've also been exploring Shreddershard swarms, and have been happily surprised. Electroshock and Dessicator also look fun, but the Shred/Rend combo more or less has me sold.
I'd say swap the Exocrine for a Mawloc and put Adrenal on the Fex's and then that list will be looking pretty nice indeed.
I'd also favour 2 dakka flyrants personally.
Maybe add a bastion at 1850, The Venom would be placed behind the Fex's, if he's going to get sniped first turn then don't place him,if you are going first you have a lot of MC's rushing forward I don't think your opponent would have much time to think about shootig a lone Venom.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/02/04 23:37:37
2014/02/05 00:41:12
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
How do the Lictors survive the first turn since they can't charge into CC?
Is the opponent more concerned about shooting the big MC's and leaves the Lictors alone? Plus their cover save if they are shot?
Granted a rushing flyrant looks more hazardous than a bunch of tall skinny trees hiding in a forest.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've been trying to fit Raveners into a CC rush list as I think they are better than shrikes and still fast. I created a decent 1850 list but can't seem to make it much useful for either 1500 or 2000.
I thought about thorax weapon on the flyrant for the haywire to transport vehicles, but 10 points doesn't fit well unless I remove the VC from the warriors. I do know that if I drop Mr. Red I'll save some points but personal preference really I used to run him in 4th. :(
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/05 00:49:47
“No one expects the Imperial Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise, fear and surprise; two chief weapons, fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency! Er, among our chief weapons are: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and near fanatical devotion to the God Emperor of Mankind! Um, I'll come in again...”
=][= Silent Guards =][=
2014/02/05 04:34:09
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
This is a deceptive list. You do not need to infiltrate your Lictors too close to the enemy first turn. You can DS them with pin point accuracy. Or you can infiltraye them mid table and have them GtG and turn two they will be in synapse range and get up. A list like this has so many options. I can outflank, infiltrate, walk up the table ... every unit in the list can comfortably start in reserve if I choose that mode of deployment. Flyers can go off the table turn one and then come back. Deathleaper is so hard to take out when you can only snapfire at him. Do I outflank the Tervigon or Prime and termagants? Do I DS a few Lictors and start the rest in cover around mid table? Do my Genestealers outflank or infiltrate? It all depends on what I'm playing against - if I face Tau I'm not infiltrating anything to close to their lines and giving up first blood. I'll take my chances outflanking or DSing behind their own Aegis line if I think it will work. Against SM I'm going hyper aggressive and am indeed infiltrating a few units farther forward. The Prime could join either the termagants or the Genestealers to outflank too - again depends on what I'm up against.
Lictors are much cheaper now. They have so many rules that help them too and rending is not bad at all and firing flesh hooks are not too shabby either. I want to take pressure of my other units and they really distract an opponent. Being able to hit and run and then sling shot 3D6 around the opponent's DZ is priceless. I really enjoyed playing this list last game. Don't knock that dataslate outright. And btw, Deathleaper can really do a number on some ICs. A list like the one above is predicated on extreme flexibility. I don't have the big deathstar unit or an terrifying MC. I do have three MCs though and I can have a devastating turn two at times. If I survive turn one in half decent shape the list starts to pressure the opponent in all areas of the board.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/05 13:20:22
2014/02/05 08:43:00
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
It's been mentioned before, using the 5ed codex, but i thought i'd revisit the idea of a Firestorm Redoubt addition to my tyranid forces.
I went through the stronghold assault book, with the most up-to-date rules for the fortification and came across a couple nifty (i think) ideas:
1.) The redoubt itself is a LOS blocking (for medium and small bugs) terrain that you can GUARANTEE will be on the table. 2.) It is also an AV14 bunker that allows 6 models to fire out of it - this can be useful for biovores, hive guard, or even a place for warriors and dakka termagants to hide inside. 3.) The Quad-Lascannons auto-fire, which means that if (when?) the Nids get RE-FAQ'ed to be unable to fire guns, the redoubt will still hold use in the tyranid army. 4.) Upgrades: Magos Machine Spirit - 30 points to make the auto-fire guns BS3. this is a must. Emplaced Quad Gun - yes, you can now add an additional gun (icarus or quad) to the 2 existing quad-lascannons if you wish. Emplaced Battle Cannons - need some S8 AP3 large blasts in your list? for 10 pts each you can swap the flyer-killer quad lascannons for an automated battle cannon. What's not to love?
So for 280-300 points you get the equivalent of a land raider for your forces to hold, hide behind, and 4 twin linked lascannons with skyfire, and another 2 twin linked autocannons. That's some serious firepower.
Drawbacks - the automated fire rule states that they fire at the end of the phase, at the closest target (skyfire stuff shoots the closest flyer, which is still useful though). This means that if your enemy plans ahead they can dictate what units you'll shoot at with your fortification instead of you. However, i don't think many players will want battle cannons and lascannons shooting at them, regardless of the target they serve up.
I'm getting the models along with some vengeance batteries (so i have the bits for the battle cannons, as well as good void-shield generator stand ins) and i'll playtest a bit. This should reduce my need for a dakka flyrant (because let's face it - they die far too quickly.)
Has anyone else put the points and time into this particular unit to see how well it does/does not help a tyranid army compete? I'd love to hear others' opinions of this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/05 14:44:33
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/02/05 14:51:48
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Has anyone else put the points and time into this particular unit to see how well it does/does not help a tyranid army compete? I'd love to hear others' opinions of this.
I usually put it in the midfield and infiltrate lictors or stealers in it.
Your opponent not being able to take control of the guns is huge.
Of course, not a viable tactiv against melta'd up armies, but I consistently run into Tau with zero to no AV14 killability.
EDIT: Personally I think bug lists get much better as you stop trying to get AA into your list. Without Flyrants and Crones you can bring the untis that allow you to hop in the enemy's face turn two and by then its too late for fliers anyways.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/05 14:53:40
Has anyone else put the points and time into this particular unit to see how well it does/does not help a tyranid army compete? I'd love to hear others' opinions of this.
I usually put it in the midfield and infiltrate lictors or stealers in it.
Your opponent not being able to take control of the guns is huge.
Of course, not a viable tactiv against melta'd up armies, but I consistently run into Tau with zero to no AV14 killability.
EDIT: Personally I think bug lists get much better as you stop trying to get AA into your list. Without Flyrants and Crones you can bring the untis that allow you to hop in the enemy's face turn two and by then its too late for fliers anyways.
What do you think of the setup of 1 Quad-lascannon, 1 Quad gun, and 1 battle cannon, with magos machine spirit? That gives you 2 anti-flyer guns and 1 anti-tank/anti-meq gun with range to damage the enemy forces turn 1 forward....
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/02/05 15:00:09
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
My problem with the redoubt in my list is cost. I really just want a comms relay and a place to put some backfield troops safely. So a bastion fits my needs better. And Flyrants indeed have issues. The fact is the whole Nids codex has issues, lol. We want to believe the codex is competitive but until I see it do well at any major event I'll reserve judgement. The codex has a lot of holes. A Redoubt is not filling them all.
2014/02/05 15:28:52
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
My problem with the redoubt in my list is cost. I really just want a comms relay and a place to put some backfield troops safely. So a bastion fits my needs better. And Flyrants indeed have issues. The fact is the whole Nids codex has issues, lol. We want to believe the codex is competitive but until I see it do well at any major event I'll reserve judgement. The codex has a lot of holes. A Redoubt is not filling them all.
The cost put me off at first too, but when you compare the firepower you get to imperial equivalents along with the bunker itself, it's not a bad deal. Being able to upgrade the BS and add an additional quad gun, as well as swap the lascannons out for battle cannons make me really want to try this out. Obviously it's all paper hammer for me at this point but i think i'll give it a whirl as soon as I get the model. Remember, for just under 300 points you are getting:
A Twin linked, 2 shot lascannon at BS3 with skyfire/interceptor
A Twin linked 4 shot Autocannon at BS3 with skyfire/interceptor
1 BS3 battle cannon
AV14 bunker that allows 6 models to fire
LOS blocking terrain piece
If i were taking a space marine army or IG army that included units firing those weapons listed, as well as an AV 14 model (land raider or leman russ) I would be investing well over 300 points. Add in the twin-linked and skyfire, i just see it having good potential. Yes, drop-melta and Bright/Dark Lance spam will certainly be issues - but that can be mitigated by placing the bunker behind another piece of terrain to grant it cover. We will see - currently i'm hopefully optimistic.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
