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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Malkyr wrote:
Thank god Cultists went up in points, I may actually be able to field my untouched for over a year Chaos Marines in a game sometime without feeling like I am intentionally screwing myself. Now just take VotLW away from them (which makes no sense anyway) and they may actually be balanced.

Cultists aren't a 5 point model, and making them 5 points doesn't suddenly make Chaos Marines an option.

Not something you can really say until you know all the points changes coming down the pike. Points values are relative after all.

New mission has First Strike, not First Blood. Very good change.

Ice_can wrote:

 Malkyr wrote:
Thank god Cultists went up in points, I may actually be able to field my untouched for over a year Chaos Marines in a game sometime without feeling like I am intentionally screwing myself. Now just take VotLW away from them (which makes no sense anyway) and they may actually be balanced.

But if Cultists are 5ppm what exactly are they planning for Guard will the mythical 6ppm guardsmen really become true?

The acceptable casualties rule feels like a bit of a bait and switch on knights players, yeah one of your FW knight might have been a tad overcosted it's now not, oh tabling nolonger wins you games enjoy holding objectives LOL.

6ppm guardsman is completely stupid on top of the fact that vet’s cost that, infantry squad like cultists will go to 5 ppm

Ice_can wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Hmm. So, it seems the only faction mentioned in the "Forces of the" section that doesn't get accompanying rules is Drukhari?

Assuming "indomitus crusaders" is a knight detachment, that is.

That’s the ultramarine one.

Actually I think the Indomintus Crusade vets is the generic primaris vets formation and vitriox guard is the ultramarine specific formation.

I think you are right. Indomitus Crusaders is likely the one that turns Intercessors into Veterans.

My question is, can I use the Indomitus Crusaders on the same detachment as I use the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force? I am hoping so, because hopefully Pedro Kantor can be used as the Warlord of the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force and I can give him a better Warlord trait. Captain Lysander can use the Indomitable Warlord Trait or Architect of War. I want to have choices for Pedro!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Hmm. So, it seems the only faction mentioned in the "Forces of the" section that doesn't get accompanying rules is Drukhari?

Assuming "indomitus crusaders" is a knight detachment, that is.

That’s the ultramarine one.

Actually I think the Indomintus Crusade vets is the generic primaris vets formation and vitriox guard is the ultramarine specific formation.

I think you are right. Indomitus Crusaders is likely the one that turns Intercessors into Veterans.

My question is, can I use the Indomitus Crusaders on the same detachment as I use the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force? I am hoping so, because hopefully Pedro Kantor can be used as the Warlord of the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force and I can give him a better Warlord trait. Captain Lysander can use the Indomitable Warlord Trait or Architect of War. I want to have choices for Pedro!

To soon to say definitively but it appears you can only have one formation benefit per detachment. Though it seems nothing is preventing players from using multiple detachments except for the usual keyword restrictions.

No tabling and no invul saves near the objective... that mission is a huge middle finger to knights.

 alextroy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Malkyr wrote:
Thank god Cultists went up in points, I may actually be able to field my untouched for over a year Chaos Marines in a game sometime without feeling like I am intentionally screwing myself. Now just take VotLW away from them (which makes no sense anyway) and they may actually be balanced.

Cultists aren't a 5 point model, and making them 5 points doesn't suddenly make Chaos Marines an option.

Not something you can really say until you know all the points changes coming down the pike. Points values are relative after all.

Exactly. Points are relative.
A 20ppm Cultist makes perfect sense if everything is more expensive in relation, like say a 45ppm Chaos Marine.

As it stands, Cultists at 5ppm will make 11ppm Marines a bit more playable.
If that means 6ppm Guardsman (it won't) than that make Marines (and other over costed units) all the better....by relation.

-

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Hmm. So, it seems the only faction mentioned in the "Forces of the" section that doesn't get accompanying rules is Drukhari?

Assuming "indomitus crusaders" is a knight detachment, that is.

That’s the ultramarine one.

Actually I think the Indomintus Crusade vets is the generic primaris vets formation and vitriox guard is the ultramarine specific formation.

I think you are right. Indomitus Crusaders is likely the one that turns Intercessors into Veterans.

My question is, can I use the Indomitus Crusaders on the same detachment as I use the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force? I am hoping so, because hopefully Pedro Kantor can be used as the Warlord of the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force and I can give him a better Warlord trait. Captain Lysander can use the Indomitable Warlord Trait or Architect of War. I want to have choices for Pedro!

Do we know what the bonus is for intercessor vets? I can read it costs 1 CP.

Kaneda88 wrote:
6ppm guardsman is completely stupid on top of the fact that vet’s cost that, infantry squad like cultists will go to 5 ppm

Not saying that Guardsmen won't go up, but I have been looking for that rumour in all the different sources and it has never really come up. The only time it is referenced is 3rd hand and people wishlisting. I would have expected such a rumour to be one of the primary things people look up/remember if they had their hands on the primary source. Let's just say I wouldn't really be surprised either way at this point.

As for the formations, I see the Guard ones as quite interesting. I usually run a brigade with infantry/russes and some sentinels/hellhounds, backed up by a tempestus patrol/brigade. With these new formations I can see splitting off a tank spearhead as a possible choice, depending on how good the rules are. Taking the forces in three detachments with different buffs may end up ding a fun list-building exercise, although I'm sure tough cuts will have to be made.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Hmm. So, it seems the only faction mentioned in the "Forces of the" section that doesn't get accompanying rules is Drukhari?

Assuming "indomitus crusaders" is a knight detachment, that is.

That’s the ultramarine one.

Actually I think the Indomintus Crusade vets is the generic primaris vets formation and vitriox guard is the ultramarine specific formation.

I think you are right. Indomitus Crusaders is likely the one that turns Intercessors into Veterans.

My question is, can I use the Indomitus Crusaders on the same detachment as I use the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force? I am hoping so, because hopefully Pedro Kantor can be used as the Warlord of the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force and I can give him a better Warlord trait. Captain Lysander can use the Indomitable Warlord Trait or Architect of War. I want to have choices for Pedro!

Do we know what the bonus is for intercessor vets? I can read it costs 1 CP.

Since it is allegedly turning them into Veterans, it would be +1 Attack, +1 Leadership compared to regular ones.

The Stratagems are 6s count as two hits in CC for 1 CP, the other one is a unit with Stalker Bolt Rifles can target Characters and do a mortal wound in addition to normal damage (SBRs are AP-2, so they will punch through most things without an Invuln) for 1 CP.

Spoletta wrote:
No tabling and no invul saves near the objective... that mission is a huge middle finger to knights.

Not as much as you’d think. Knights don’t get invulnerable in close combat anyway. Fighting knights in close combat if you don’t have an invulnerable save yourself is not a whole lot of fun.

As a knight player I think I’d just give a Gallant or Warden the 2+ armour save relic, then have it jump up and down on whoever was claiming the objective. Meanwhile the Castellan can stand nice and far away from the objective with its 3++.

As a general rule knights are pretty happy to fight over a single point on the battlefield. They’ll struggle to get more bodies there than the other player, but they’ll make quite a bit of a mess of whatever they find when they arrive.

Models that’ll really suffer are things like Talosi, harlequins and daemons. If someone stands a bunch of talosi on this thing with no invulnerable saves I think I’d be quite happy.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Cultists aren't a 5 point model, and making them 5 points doesn't suddenly make Chaos Marines an option.

With the strategems available to them plus Abaddon or an Iron Warriors warlord Cultists are probably a 6 or 7 point model (assuming Marines stay 13 and Daemons are still 7). I currently own 60 and that still isn't enough for "competitive play" in my opinion, though I never wanted to play a horde army with CSM.

No invul. near objectives hits some armies pretty hard (hello Harlequins) and some not at all (mostly hordes of most flavours), but generally the idea is great as it makes holding an objective for a point vs. making a unit more vulnerable an actual risk-assessment and thus skill-based decision vs. the tactically irrelevant no-brainer it is currently, which is what you want in tournaments.

Dropping the atrocious CA17 first-turn rule that made drop-count-management a strategic irrelevancy is also great.



Point increase on cultists IMO wasn't the way to go. Should've stayed at their price but lost access to all stratagems not explicitly designed for them (as with Gretchin) IMO would have been the way both balance-wise and fluff-wise (they aren't usually VoTLW, etc..).

 Trickstick wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:
6ppm guardsman is completely stupid on top of the fact that vet’s cost that, infantry squad like cultists will go to 5 ppm

Not saying that Guardsmen won't go up, but I have been looking for that rumour in all the different sources and it has never really come up. The only time it is referenced is 3rd hand and people wishlisting. I would have expected such a rumour to be one of the primary things people look up/remember if they had their hands on the primary source. Let's just say I wouldn't really be surprised either way at this point.

As for the formations, I see the Guard ones as quite interesting. I usually run a brigade with infantry/russes and some sentinels/hellhounds, backed up by a tempestus patrol/brigade. With these new formations I can see splitting off a tank spearhead as a possible choice, depending on how good the rules are. Taking the forces in three detachments with different buffs may end up ding a fun list-building exercise, although I'm sure tough cuts will have to be made.

I play guard too and i think the same as you about how many times people have shouted that guardsmen were going up but come on if cultists are going up infantry squads are too in all probability, if not i’ll laugh

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Point increase on cultists IMO wasn't the way to go. Should've stayed at their price but lost access to all stratagems not explicitly designed for them (as with Gretchin) IMO would have been the way both balance-wise and fluff-wise (they aren't usually VoTLW, etc..).

Yeah I agree with this. I still think they'd be worth 5ppm as unbreakable bubble wrap with a decent ranged attack though. In general I'd rather see all the super cheap (4pts or less) models get raised then have Marines drop a bunch and have them become another horde army.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
No invul. near objectives hits some armies pretty hard (hello Harlequins) and some not at all (mostly hordes of most flavours), but generally the idea is great as it makes holding an objective for a point vs. making a unit more vulnerable an actual risk-assessment and thus skill-based decision vs. the tactically irrelevant no-brainer it is currently, which is what you want in tournaments.

Yeah, that mission is nearly an auto-lose for my Harlequin list. I'm not oppossed to having a challenge though, as long as there are other missions that are hard counters to other army types as well, like hordes.

That's a lot of Imperial Formations.... And is that Blitz Brigade hopefully a Genestealer Cult formation? Otherwise there's nothing in there for them as well.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Hmm. So, it seems the only faction mentioned in the "Forces of the" section that doesn't get accompanying rules is Drukhari?

Assuming "indomitus crusaders" is a knight detachment, that is.

That’s the ultramarine one.

Actually I think the Indomintus Crusade vets is the generic primaris vets formation and vitriox guard is the ultramarine specific formation.

I think you are right. Indomitus Crusaders is likely the one that turns Intercessors into Veterans.

My question is, can I use the Indomitus Crusaders on the same detachment as I use the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force? I am hoping so, because hopefully Pedro Kantor can be used as the Warlord of the Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force and I can give him a better Warlord trait. Captain Lysander can use the Indomitable Warlord Trait or Architect of War. I want to have choices for Pedro!

Do we know what the bonus is for intercessor vets? I can read it costs 1 CP.

Since it is allegedly turning them into Veterans, it would be +1 Attack, +1 Leadership compared to regular ones.

The Stratagems are 6s count as two hits in CC for 1 CP, the other one is a unit with Stalker Bolt Rifles can target Characters and do a mortal wound in addition to normal damage (SBRs are AP-2, so they will punch through most things without an Invuln) for 1 CP.

Thanks the picture ive seen was so small i couldn't read it. Sniper seems pretty meh - as stalkers are a terrible weapon. They should really have sniper standard...considering it has a giant sniper scope. The CC buff seems decent when combined with vetreen squads possible having 3 attacks.

blitz brigade is the ork battlewagon formation (from earlier leaks). We actually know all the rules on that one.

Eeeer, no we don't?

Where do you know the rules for it from and what are they?

 Malkyr wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Point increase on cultists IMO wasn't the way to go. Should've stayed at their price but lost access to all stratagems not explicitly designed for them (as with Gretchin) IMO would have been the way both balance-wise and fluff-wise (they aren't usually VoTLW, etc..).

Yeah I agree with this. I still think they'd be worth 5ppm as unbreakable bubble wrap with a decent ranged attack though. In general I'd rather see all the super cheap (4pts or less) models get raised then have Marines drop a bunch and have them become another horde army.

All that would do is invalidate all infantry. A marine isn't terrible because hordes are cheap. A marine is terrible because it costs too much for its protection.

BoomWolf,


From Reddit

BLITZ BRIGADE (UNLOCK COST) - ?CP (Hard to read)
Use this stratagem at the beginning of the game. Pick an ORK detachment from your army to be a Blitz Brigade Spearhead detachment. WARBIKERS, BATTLEWAGONS, BONECRUSHAS and GUNWAGONS in this detachment gain the BLITZ BRIGADE keyword.

Warlord Trait: Back-seat driver. When your Warlord is embarked within a BLITZ BRIGADE TRANSPORT, add 1" to that transport's move characteristic. In addition, while your Warlord is embarked within it, the transport gains the "ere we go" ability

Relic: Da Blitz Shouta. At the start of your shooting phase, if the bearer is embarked within a BLITZ BRIGADE BATTLEWAGON, pick an enemy unit that is visible to the BATTLEWAGON. Until the end of the phase, reroll hit rolls of 1 for attacks made for friendly BLITZ BRIGADE units within 6" of that BATTLEWAGON that target the enemy unit you picked.

Stratagem: 2CP - Hold on, boyz! Use this stratagem during your movement phase, before moving a <CLAN> BLITZ BRIGADE BATTLEWAGON in your army. Pick a friendly <CLAN> INFANTRY unit wholly within 3" of that model and remove it from the battlefield. After the BATTLEWAGON has moved, set the <CLAN> INFANTRY unit back up on the battlefield, wholly within 3" of the BATTLEWAGON and more than 1" from enemy models. (Note that the infantry unit is not placed within the Battlewagon and does not count towards the number of friendly models it can transport). The infantry unit cannot move further this phase, and counts as having moved this turn for all rules purposes and it cannot charge this turn.

Stratagem: 1CP - CRUSH YA! - Use this stratagem when a BLITZ BRIGADE BONECRUSHA from your army is chosen to fight. Roll an additional D6 for the Bonecrusha Ram ability and choose the highest result.

Stratagem, 1CP - Opening Salvo
Use this stratagem in your shooting phase in the first battle round. Choose a BLITZ BRIGADE GUNWAGON from your army. Double the range characteristic of that unit's ranged weapons until the end of the phase.

 Trickstick wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:
6ppm guardsman is completely stupid on top of the fact that vet’s cost that, infantry squad like cultists will go to 5 ppm

Not saying that Guardsmen won't go up, but I have been looking for that rumour in all the different sources and it has never really come up. The only time it is referenced is 3rd hand and people wishlisting. I would have expected such a rumour to be one of the primary things people look up/remember if they had their hands on the primary source. Let's just say I wouldn't really be surprised either way at this point.

Right? It drives me batty. If I were the one who had access to the CA the very first thing I'd look for is IS point costs.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:
6ppm guardsman is completely stupid on top of the fact that vet’s cost that, infantry squad like cultists will go to 5 ppm

Not saying that Guardsmen won't go up, but I have been looking for that rumour in all the different sources and it has never really come up. The only time it is referenced is 3rd hand and people wishlisting. I would have expected such a rumour to be one of the primary things people look up/remember if they had their hands on the primary source. Let's just say I wouldn't really be surprised either way at this point.

Right? It drives me batty. If I were the one who had access to the CA the very first thing I'd look for is IS point costs.

IS are in the Blood of Kittens leak compendium as 5ppm FWIW.

Grain of salt and all that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Carnikang wrote:
That's a lot of Imperial Formations.... And is that Blitz Brigade hopefully a Genestealer Cult formation? Otherwise there's nothing in there for them as well.

Deliverance Broodsurge is definitely a GSC formation (it was in 7E) and I would assume Anointed Throng is also a GSC formation.

Looking forward to seeing what the Wraith Host does, hopefully it'll be enough to get me to take my Wraithguard/blades off the shelf.

Hold on, boyz! strat seriously is hilarious. I dont think its all that practical but its hilarious and orky.

Since it doesnt count to the transport limit or even count as embarking, i now feel the urge to move a full 30squad of boyz...even though thats probably impossible to fit it all in 3" lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Hold on, boyz! strat seriously is hilarious. I dont think its all that practical but its hilarious and orky.

Since it doesnt count to the transport limit or even count as embarking, i now feel the urge to move a full 30squad of boyz...even though thats probably impossible to fit it all in 3" lol

Sounds like acceptable casualties to me. Harkens back to the day when you could physically fit as many models on the transport that you wanted and any that fell off while moving the model were dead.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:
6ppm guardsman is completely stupid on top of the fact that vet’s cost that, infantry squad like cultists will go to 5 ppm

Not saying that Guardsmen won't go up, but I have been looking for that rumour in all the different sources and it has never really come up. The only time it is referenced is 3rd hand and people wishlisting. I would have expected such a rumour to be one of the primary things people look up/remember if they had their hands on the primary source. Let's just say I wouldn't really be surprised either way at this point.

Right? It drives me batty. If I were the one who had access to the CA the very first thing I'd look for is IS point costs.

Same but really infantry squads beat cultists hands down if they are 5ppm I can see a lot of salt from choas player's.
It also maybe that GW has learned from 2017 and is keeping the saltest nerfs under lock and key to prevent pre release complaining.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
No invul. near objectives hits some armies pretty hard (hello Harlequins) and some not at all (mostly hordes of most flavours), but generally the idea is great as it makes holding an objective for a point vs. making a unit more vulnerable an actual risk-assessment and thus skill-based decision vs. the tactically irrelevant no-brainer it is currently, which is what you want in tournaments.

Dropping the atrocious CA17 first-turn rule that made drop-count-management a strategic irrelevancy is also great.



Point increase on cultists IMO wasn't the way to go. Should've stayed at their price but lost access to all stratagems not explicitly designed for them (as with Gretchin) IMO would have been the way both balance-wise and fluff-wise (they aren't usually VoTLW, etc..).

Woah, I hadn't spotted that they'd gone back to auto first turns. That's huge. It's actually a pretty big nerf for soup armies and anyone who fields multiple detachments. It's a major bonus for my knights and a decent one for my marines - if I can fit them all into three repulsors.

I definitely agree on cultists. They are not chaos marines, and obviously shouldn't get access to legion traits and the like. I wouldn't mind if they got their own thing, so that khorne cultists were different to nurgle ones. You could do something like how IG vehicles get different rules to infantry from the same regiment. There's just no way they should just count as alpha legion veterans of the long war.

the_scotsman 766923 10252946 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Carnikang wrote:
That's a lot of Imperial Formations.... And is that Blitz Brigade hopefully a Genestealer Cult formation? Otherwise there's nothing in there for them as well.

Deliverance Broodsurge is definitely a GSC formation (it was in 7E) and I would assume Anointed Throng is also a GSC formation.

Must have missed that while looking at it on my phone. Good to see that thise are coming back at least...

Thanks.