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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Eastern Ontario

Voss wrote:


Yes and no. On the one hand, I want to see them actually happen, on the other, giving themselves a good time frame to take feedback from the beta list and do a good job is better than rushing it out.

It's what they should have done with the Index lists instead of flying immediately into pushing out codex books.


Agreed.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Radikus wrote:
Some stuff popping up over on reddit. Cannot confirm source, so take it for what you will.

Intercessor down 1

Repulsor 185 -25

Primaris captain 78 -9

Captain in gravis 90 -12

Twin las to 40 -10

Land raider to 200 (redeemer 180) -39 / -64

Be'Lakor 240 -40

Terminators 23 -3

Drop Pod 63 -30

Also storm shields dropping in price (no numbers yet).


WOW! Changes in green

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/16 20:10:45


[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Radikus wrote:
Some stuff popping up over on reddit. Cannot confirm source, so take it for what you will.

Intercessor down 1 - 18

Repulsor 185 - 210 down 25

Primaris captain 78 - 87 down 9

Captain in gravis 90 - 102 down 12

Twin las to 40 - 50 down 10

Land raider to 200 (redeemer 180) - 239 down 39 (244 down 64)

Be'Lakor 240 - 280 down 40

Terminators 23 - 26 down 3

Drop Pod 63 - 83 down 20

Also storm shields dropping in price (no numbers yet).


What are the current points cost, so we have some context?


Current points in red for context. All points are shown without weapon costs.

Some interesting possible changes. For example, a standard landraider, without changes to the Twin HB, is now 59 points cheaper. Not sure if it's enough to bring them back though.


In regards to the -1 to hit to +1 to cover, i REALLY hope this is in addition to the standard cover save, but i doubt it will be :/

Also, if that Eldar force is down 3-400 points, then it looks like i'm buying that xmas boxset after all!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Radikus wrote:
Some stuff popping up over on reddit. Cannot confirm source, so take it for what you will.

Intercessor down 1

Repulsor 185 -25[b]

Primaris captain 78 -9[b]

Captain in gravis 90 -12[b]

Twin las to 40 -10[b]

Land raider to 200 (redeemer 180) -39 / -64[b]

Be'Lakor 240 -40[b]

Terminators 23 -3[b]

Drop Pod 63 -30[b]

Also storm shields dropping in price (no numbers yet).


WOW! Changes in green


rip me :(

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/16 20:11:18


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Kdash wrote:


rip me :(




I think Land Raiders have an opening. 247 for 4 LC shots. (Does this forebode 20 point lascannons?). Two of those for just under 500. If -1 to hit goes to +1 save you've got 2+ save LR 32 total wounds. Against a basic 450ish point knight seems pretty decent to me.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 Dr. Mills wrote:

Terminators 23 (40pts > 23pts)
Is that 40pts WITH Powerfist and Stormbolter? or without? Because the new 23ppm looks like it's without. So with Termies would be 37ppm, which is only a 3 point drop. Hardly enough to make them worth taking

-

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Galef wrote:
 Dr. Mills wrote:

Terminators 23 (40pts > 23pts)
Is that 40pts WITH Powerfist and Stormbolter? or without? Because the new 23ppm looks like it's without. So with Termies would be 37ppm, which is only a 3 point drop. Hardly enough to make them worth taking

-


SS are rumored to go down. Other pieces could as well. 3 points is a good start.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Kdash wrote:


rip me :(




I think Land Raiders have an opening. 247 for 4 LC shots. (Does this forebode 20 point lascannons?). Two of those for just under 500. If -1 to hit goes to +1 save you've got 2+ save LR 32 total wounds. Against a basic 450ish point knight seems pretty decent to me.


The problem is, i think i'd still rather rely on that one Knight over those 8 lascannon shots and 16 HB shots personally. Will be an interesting debate though once all the changes are known.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 Dr. Mills wrote:

Terminators 23 (40pts > 23pts)
Is that 40pts WITH Powerfist and Stormbolter? or without? Because the new 23ppm looks like it's without. So with Termies would be 37ppm, which is only a 3 point drop. Hardly enough to make them worth taking

-


SS are rumored to go down. Other pieces could as well. 3 points is a good start.
True, if Powerfists go down it might work out. But without any rules/stat changes, Termies are only worth between 2-3x a regular Marine. Certainly worth more than 2 Marines, but not quite worth 3. And if Marines are going down in cost, Termies should go down by that much more.
I really don't see anyone taking standard PF/SB Termies competitively for any more than 30-35ppm max.
Which is a shame because Termies are awesome

-

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/16 20:30:53


   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






In my book terminators are 26pts each
Edit: srry I didn;t refresh enough apparently and missed a bunch of posts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/16 20:41:58


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Galef wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 Dr. Mills wrote:

Terminators 23 (40pts > 23pts)
Is that 40pts WITH Powerfist and Stormbolter? or without? Because the new 23ppm looks like it's without. So with Termies would be 37ppm, which is only a 3 point drop. Hardly enough to make them worth taking

-


SS are rumored to go down. Other pieces could as well. 3 points is a good start.
True, if Powerfists go down it might work out. But without any rules/stat changes, Termies are only worth between 2-3x a regular Marine. Certainly worth more than 2 Marines, but not quite worth 3. And if Marines are going down in cost, Termies should go down by that much more.
I really don't see anyone taking standard PF/SB Termies competitively for any more than 30-35ppm max.
Which is a shame because Termies are awesome

-


If it is 3 points for all terminators, i'd be happy with a 30 point drop on my 10 scarab terminators - couple of other drops elsewhere and it opens up options if i want to go crazy again.

(well, when i say happy, it's in regards to the options )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/16 20:45:07


 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




Unless the weapons terminators must take also got cheaper in points they will still be to many points to be competitive.

If almost the entire marine range got point drops at these levels will feel a lot better at marines chances in decently competitive games.

Also hope chapter tactics gets expanded to the whole army just like every single other force in the game, and same for the chaos legions.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Galef wrote:
 Dr. Mills wrote:

Terminators 23 (40pts > 23pts)
Is that 40pts WITH Powerfist and Stormbolter? or without? Because the new 23ppm looks like it's without. So with Termies would be 37ppm, which is only a 3 point drop. Hardly enough to make them worth taking

-

This is all love taps. Will make no difference. The LR might be playable at 250ish. 1 point drop on primaris marines? Get outta here man.

It's like they aren't paying attention. If these are accurate point.

A shinning spear is still cheaper than a terminator LOL. 34 compared to 37

Shinning spear still has more 3x the mobility/2x more firepower/About even protections based on what is shooting at it/ and spears still deal more damage in CC too/ still have better stratagems. The spear is still MUCH BETTER for less.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/16 20:53:34


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





A little sad that SoB are so far out. I had a feeling they'd be mid-2019 at the earliest, but going all the way to the end of 2019... It's going to be a long wait. I guess that explains why we haven't seen any more tidbits on them. But, then again, we'll all have plenty of time to give good feedback on the Codex, and maybe the models will start coming out ahead of the Codex? Who knows?

The rest of the changes are more what I was hoping to see. Some rules changes, and a lot of points changes. Chapter Approved + the last Big FAQ = a better game overall, I hope.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 Dr. Mills wrote:

Terminators 23 (40pts > 23pts)
Is that 40pts WITH Powerfist and Stormbolter? or without? Because the new 23ppm looks like it's without. So with Termies would be 37ppm, which is only a 3 point drop. Hardly enough to make them worth taking


Don't terminators already get stormshields for 5 points? Or is that Wolf Guard only? If that goes down more and then down on TWC and HQs...that'll be some sick savings because my lists run a lot of stormshields.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/16 20:47:36


 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 Dr. Mills wrote:

Terminators 23 (40pts > 23pts)
Is that 40pts WITH Powerfist and Stormbolter? or without? Because the new 23ppm looks like it's without. So with Termies would be 37ppm, which is only a 3 point drop. Hardly enough to make them worth taking

-


SS are rumored to go down. Other pieces could as well. 3 points is a good start.


If they drop power firsts and stuff that will annoy the other factions. XD
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Xenomancers wrote:

This is all love taps. Will make no difference. The LR might be playable at 250ish. 1 point drop on primaris marines? Get outta here man.


Tortoise wins the race. Otherwise we'd have to listen to people complain how GW is trying to sell Primaris twice as much as we will with 1 point.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Honestly, My marine force is a narrative force only so any points drop at all would be a welcome change when i do narrative battles.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




As for the SS point reduction, i don't think the standard version will drop if i'm honest.

I do, however, expect it to potentially be a reduction in cost for the character version.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

This is all love taps. Will make no difference. The LR might be playable at 250ish. 1 point drop on primaris marines? Get outta here man.


Tortoise wins the race. Otherwise we'd have to listen to people complain how GW is trying to sell Primaris twice as much as we will with 1 point.

Who cares - SS have been undercosted by like 7 points for about 1 1/2 years. They are finally raising their price by about half what they should. Primaris started at 20 a pop. No one played them. Dropped to 18 a pop - no one played them. Maybe they'll play them at 17? Give me a break man. It's a 14-15 point model at best. Plus - if primaris drop 1 point there is no way a tactical marine is going to reduce. So basically this is another waste CA.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





South Florida

Was there any word re: the timeline for when we'll see CA drop?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

This is all love taps. Will make no difference. The LR might be playable at 250ish. 1 point drop on primaris marines? Get outta here man.


Tortoise wins the race. Otherwise we'd have to listen to people complain how GW is trying to sell Primaris twice as much as we will with 1 point.

Who cares - SS have been undercosted by like 7 points for about 1 1/2 years. They are finally raising their price by about half what they should. Primaris started at 20 a pop. No one played them. Dropped to 18 a pop - no one played them. Maybe they'll play them at 17? Give me a break man. It's a 14-15 point model at best. Plus - if primaris drop 1 point there is no way a tactical marine is going to reduce. So basically this is another waste CA.


The context of other changes matter. 17 point primaris in a cheaper Repulsor. Cheaper Termies in a more efficient LR. Put that up against more expensive cultists, IS, spears, etc.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




really hoping standard tactical marine profile dropped to 10-11 pts per model.

Esp with the intercessor dropping to 17 it is very needed.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Oh gosh darn it to heck and back, if those marine changes indicate some of the Custard stuff (venerable LR) drops as well as the drop to whatshisname my Custards will be under 2k by enough I may need to buy a box of something

#firstworldproblems
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




It's something I guess but I really think it should be more than that.
   
Made in gb
Numberless Necron Warrior




MistaGav wrote:
It's something I guess but I really think it should be more than that.


We'll see. I'd rather see them make incremental changes and see what's what, rather than just making huge sweeping changes and having no idea what worked. This all looks sensible so far. LR and maybe even the Repulsor (depends on pts drops for the other guns) have become much better value. Assuming the Redemptor will get a drop too. My Primaris Crimson Fists are happy. Not top table happy, but in a much better place than they were if this is all true.

We need to see all the changes together to judge this though, out of context these are just little tasty morsels to amuse us.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





The Cultist change would surprise / anger me. Cultists are already the same cost as IG infantry but much worse (6+ save and not 5+, inability to get orders, less weapon options etc.).


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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

 Virules wrote:
The Cultist change would surprise / anger me. Cultists are already the same cost as IG infantry but much worse (6+ save and not 5+, inability to get orders, less weapon options etc.).


Except they are INSANELY efficient due to keyword interactions and the CSM stratagems. Where IG get next to no benefits from their stratagems the CSM stratagems are amazing. VotLW, Endless Cacophony and Tide of Traitors. Not to mention the Legion traits. Or the interaction with the God-specific psychic powers.

That's always been the problem with cultists. They are FAR too good for their points cost. At damn near a 3:1 ratio with CSM they outperform their CSM counterparts by a mile. Especially if you stick them in an IW or Abaddon bubble.

No, Cultists needed this nerf. Don't try to compare them to guardsmen. That's like an IG player trying to compare themselves to Genestealers. Different roles within different armies. Cultists are meant to be chaff. Currently they're functioning as the Workhorse of the CSM army. And that's a problem.



Now only a CSM/Dark Mech player. 
   
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The World Killer.




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Let's see some good Necron news next please Leakers!


4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+ 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




The Void

A point or two change on Marines is welcome, but isn't going to do much on its own. They would also need decreases to a lot of special weapons costs, and some sort of increase to their default offensive power (bolters and CCWs) and something to make them more durable. And probably better chapter traits, and traits on vehicles. And even then it's marginal.

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
 Virules wrote:
The Cultist change would surprise / anger me. Cultists are already the same cost as IG infantry but much worse (6+ save and not 5+, inability to get orders, less weapon options etc.).


Except they are INSANELY efficient due to keyword interactions and the CSM stratagems. Where IG get next to no benefits from their stratagems the CSM stratagems are amazing. VotLW, Endless Cacophony and Tide of Traitors. Not to mention the Legion traits. Or the interaction with the God-specific psychic powers.

That's always been the problem with cultists. They are FAR too good for their points cost. At damn near a 3:1 ratio with CSM they outperform their CSM counterparts by a mile. Especially if you stick them in an IW or Abaddon bubble.

No, Cultists needed this nerf. Don't try to compare them to guardsmen. That's like an IG player trying to compare themselves to Genestealers. Different roles within different armies. Cultists are meant to be chaff. Currently they're functioning as the Workhorse of the CSM army. And that's a problem.
Agreed. And with Guardsmen also very likely getting bumped in cost, it's a moot point to complain about Cultists in comparison to Guardsmen.
Personally I am excited if all this comes true. Marines and CSM should only be a bit more than twice the cost of Guardsmen/Cultists, but have been 3x that cost this edition.
Hopefully the 1-2 punch of MEQs getting slightly cheaper combined with chaff units getting a slight bump in points finally evens the scales.
I wanna see people fielding MEQs as their core army again, rather than Cultists and Guard battalions

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/16 22:01:04


   
 
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