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Ute nation

It looks like someone edited the void dragon entry today, and added what looks to be a bunch of spoilers for the upcoming Necron codex. They also added an explanation of how the nightbringer started the most powerful of the C'Tan, and the void dragon ended the most powerful. Basically the night bringer got chunked in his battle with the eldar gods, and his scythe was banished into the warp.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
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 Lord Damocles wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wasn't it called the Void Dragon in the 3rd edition codex? I think that's where I first saw it being called it that.

It was refered to by a human translation of an Eldar text as 'the Dragon' (pg.5).

Correct.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
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 Grimgold wrote:
It looks like someone edited the void dragon entry today, and added what looks to be a bunch of spoilers for the upcoming Necron codex. They also added an explanation of how the nightbringer started the most powerful of the C'Tan, and the void dragon ended the most powerful. Basically the night bringer got chunked in his battle with the eldar gods, and his scythe was banished into the warp.


If that's from the Fandom Wiki, most of the fluff on there isn't super accurate. It's like a hodgepodge of stuff that's picked and extrapolated.

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You realize this link proves what I said, right?

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
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Wondering if someone would mind explaining something for me, just watched a YouTube video and a guy was explaining what models are losing out in 9th edition.

He said that due to the changes to morale and unit coherency small elite groups lose out and large infantry groups lose out (he might has well have just said everyone in my opinion) but I don't see how, surely with the changes to morale in some ways its better?
I understand say a group of Necron warriors gets shot and you lose 9 guys under old rules if you rolled a 6 you would lose 5 more guys. Under new rules you lose 1 and then roll a d6 so statically speaking you might lose 2 more guys.

I do understand if you go under half strength you lose then on a roll of a 2 so say you lose 11 dudes you would probably lose 3 more but that's still better then what we would've lose under old rules right

Or am I missing something completely and misinterpreting the rules?

(If my example isn't great sorry about thst)
   
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on the forum. Obviously

Morale technically hurts MSU as losing a model to morale hurts them more than it does to hordes.
Everyone has a 1/6 chance of dying.
If you lose 2 models from a 12 model unit that's 1/6 of the unit gone.
If you lose 1 model from a six man unit that's still 1/6 of the unit gone. Each loss hurts more in terms of models lost.

Coherency hurts hordes as you have to micromanage more to make sure that everything is within 2" of 2 other models. If you fail to ensure this you immediately lose models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/05 08:04:51


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You lose a model to attrition on 1-2's if you're under half strength. So lose three models on a five-man squad you've significantly increased your chances of losing the rest of the squad to morale. If those models were in a 10 man squad instead you would have had to lose more models before that becomes an issue.

I think I'd have to see it to believe this actually hurts MSU (factions that can MSU effectively have high enough leadership they don't lose models to morale). It is definitely better for large squads than the old rule was.
   
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on the forum. Obviously

 Arachnofiend wrote:
You lose a model to attrition on 1-2's if you're under half strength. So lose three models on a five-man squad you've significantly increased your chances of losing the rest of the squad to morale. If those models were in a 10 man squad instead you would have had to lose more models before that becomes an issue.

I think I'd have to see it to believe this actually hurts MSU (factions that can MSU effectively have high enough leadership they don't lose models to morale). It is definitely better for large squads than the old rule was.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that part of the rule.
Yeah, you need to lose more models with a large squad before it goes critical.

Necrons have the advantage compared to most factions, imo. Necrons can run both MSU and horde and the ubiquitous LD10 means that in either case we aren't going to be losing that many models.

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 Arachnofiend wrote:
You lose a model to attrition on 1-2's if you're under half strength. So lose three models on a five-man squad you've significantly increased your chances of losing the rest of the squad to morale. If those models were in a 10 man squad instead you would have had to lose more models before that becomes an issue.

I think I'd have to see it to believe this actually hurts MSU (factions that can MSU effectively have high enough leadership they don't lose models to morale). It is definitely better for large squads than the old rule was.


Pretty much this.

This is a rule where the proof will be in the playing. On paper it has its ups and downs depending on unit size. I for one quite like that, as it’s another issue to consider when list building. MSU in the days of freely split fire isn’t what it used to be. And again, with freely split fire, large units are more flexible.

But when I’m potentially risking more punishing Ld Tests when half strength, I may not max out Warrior Squads.

Oh, speaking of Warrior Squads, now it’s confirmed we can freely mix their weapon options, do people feel differently about the new weapon? Apologies if this has been discussed already.

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I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational

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 Marshal Loss wrote:
I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational


There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.

If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.

But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.
   
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Morale technically hurts MSU as losing a model to morale hurts them more than it does to hordes.
Everyone has a 1/6 chance of dying.
If you lose 2 models from a 12 model unit that's 1/6 of the unit gone.
If you lose 1 model from a six man unit that's still 1/6 of the unit gone. Each loss hurts more in terms of models lost.

There is still a morale test and you have fail the morale test first, before you get to attrition

Lose three models:
d6+3 is always less than 10. No morale losses

Lose four models
d6+4 is at worst equal to 10. No morale losses.

Morale isn't an issue for MSU Necrons.

Maybe if the enemy invests really, really heavily in leadership penalties, but even if they've maxed it out at -3, you're still only failing 50% of the time after taking 3 casualties, which is poor return on their investment.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/07/05 14:10:17


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IanVanCheese wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational


There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.

If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.

But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.



I've started to warm up more to them. I've seen a few 9th ed batreps so far, and with how important control midfield is, I don't think the short range is going to be as much of a problem as I theorized it would.

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Working on it

It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.

I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.

This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination

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on the forum. Obviously

 Sasori wrote:
IanVanCheese wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational


There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.

If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.

But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.



I've started to warm up more to them. I've seen a few 9th ed batreps so far, and with how important control midfield is, I don't think the short range is going to be as much of a problem as I theorized it would.


I've been thinking of using them with strategic reserves.
You have to wait until turn 3, but suddenly dropping a unit of 20 reaper warriors in your opponent's flank sounds like a nasty surprise, especially if he has artillery.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.

I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.

This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination


What's a Sarstele?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/05 15:22:40


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Working on it

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Sasori wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.

I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.

This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination


What's a Sarstele?


Starstele, my bad. It's the pylon terrain we got

<Dynasty> ~10500pts
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze ~2500pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps ~3250pts
Cult of the Stoneborn Serpent ~2500pts
Admech (TBN) ~2250pts
 
   
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Florence, KY

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Spoiler:
 Sasori wrote:
IanVanCheese wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational


There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.

If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.

But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.



I've started to warm up more to them. I've seen a few 9th ed batreps so far, and with how important control midfield is, I don't think the short range is going to be as much of a problem as I theorized it would.


I've been thinking of using them with strategic reserves.
You have to wait until turn 3, but suddenly dropping a unit of 20 reaper warriors in your opponent's flank sounds like a nasty surprise, especially if he has artillery.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.

I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.

This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination


What's a Sarstele?

Starstele is the name for the individual pieces of the Convergence of Dominion.

Each Convergence of Dominion consists of three Starstele (they’re the big obelisk-type things), which are seriously durable and armed with impressively deadly transdimensional abductors! Even better, they bolster units from your dynasty that are nearby and, with the help of a friendly Cryptek, can perform Translocation Protocols to redeploy across the battlefield. Yeah… these are great.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/05 15:55:49


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defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

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I’m thrilled with the new Necrons. They’re a good mixture of hard sci fi and fantasy horror. In other words, a perfect faction for a space opera like 40k.

Does anyone know if the Celestial Lions chapter have tangled with Necrons? I’m looking an excuse to keep both sides of the starter box lol.
   
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The bestest part...

Love the new Szarekhan Dynasty Necron colour scheme but don’t know how to replicate it yourself? Some superb new paints are entering the range next weekend, making getting your legion Battle Ready easy. From rich metallics to vibrant technicals, these paints aren’t just for Necron players but anyone looking to upgrade their collection. We’ll also be releasing a spray version of Runelord Brass later in the year – so keep an eye out for it!

Spoiler:




From Facebook:

Facebook Poster wrote:I’d love an article on the four new paints so we can see what they do and how they look on their own.

Warhammer TV wrote:We may take a separate look at them soon.

So I'm thinking we may see them on the Twitch 'Hobby Clinic' on Tuesday or via a Warhammer Community article.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/05 20:36:50


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in fr
Freaky Flayed One




 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.

I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.

This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination


Yeah, if new RP somehow allow us revive dead units (with an orb maybe), warriors blob may work with support.
11+ models squads are quite handicaped by 9th changes, but if the meta become MSU heavy, blast will also become less common (as blast weapons seems to have bigger increases in points),.
New unit coherency will need a little time to get used to, but will be manageable i my opinion.

The warden already remove one of the big issue of the warrior blog of 8th (being in close combat). We should still have immortal pride or something equivalent (and morale is less devastating for big units). I hope RP is the last piece of puzzle, and if it indeed is, warriors could become playable, even good.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/05 17:53:02


 
   
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Shaelinith wrote:
 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.

I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.

This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination


Yeah, if new RP somehow allow us revive dead units (with an orb maybe), warriors blob may work with support.
11+ models squads are quite handicaped by 9th changes, but if the meta become MSU heavy, blast will also become less common (as blast weapons seems to have bigger increases in points),.
New unit coherency will need a little time to get used to, but will be manageable i my opinion.

The warden already remove one of the big issue of the warrior blog of 8th (being in close combat). We should still have immortal pride or something equivalent (and morale is less devastating for big units). I hope RP is the last piece of puzzle, and if it indeed is, warriors could become playable, even good.




Keeping them hidden behind terrain is gonna be key. Sure, stuff like Astra Militarum will get a lot of blast shots, but if you force them to fire through dense terrain, they're gonna be hitting on 5s. And hide behind Obscuring terrain, they gotta move up to it to shoot, making it easier to tag those blast weapon tanks next turn.

Blast will be scary, but it's a game of tradeoffs. If you wanna drive your leman russ up, I'm happy to tag it with 9 scarabs. Good luck clearing 36 wounds with your heavy bolter sponsons buddy.
   
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Scarabs with the new overwatch (unless you play against Tau) should be very interesting even in squad of 3 to tag units.
With the warden you can also disengage, shoot with another units and charge again (or elsewhere).
As fall back with fly doesn't allow you to shoot anymore, cheap expandable fast units like scarabs will become a pain to manage, giving breathing room for the heavy hitters to do their job.


 
   
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Vigo. Spain.

I can understand how short range could seem an issue. After playing Farsight in a couple of tournaments and playing aggresively to control the mid field and my opponent objetives I have realized how easy is to have their buffs active (both the 12" and 6" ones)

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Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

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If the heavy Gauss Canon is being replaced by the Gauss destructor then will that affect the Triarch stalker and its Twin heavy gauss cannon?

Also and this is just a while guess but considering the enmitic weapon on the Lord is 2D3 Str 6 -1 1 damage I'm thinking maybe the Heavy destroyer version might be 2d6 Str 8 -2 d3 damage, just a complete guess on my part but its a huge gun in comparison to what the Lord uses (though I get comparing gun size doesn't translate into stats
   
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 Ghaz wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

What's a Sarstele?

Starstele is the name for the individual pieces of the Convergence of Dominion.

Each Convergence of Dominion consists of three Starstele (they’re the big obelisk-type things), which are seriously durable and armed with impressively deadly transdimensional abductors! Even better, they bolster units from your dynasty that are nearby and, with the help of a friendly Cryptek, can perform Translocation Protocols to redeploy across the battlefield. Yeah… these are great.


Hmm. Missed the name of these when looking at the article.
The 'star' part annoys me, but stele in general have some interesting historical counterparts that would work well with the necrons. In the ancient Mesopotamia they were often erected by kings of various city states as... bragging records of their yearly campaigns.
A general 'Lo, I am so great, for in the eighth year of my reign, my conquests brought home 50 horses, 75 cattle, 8 wagons of copper and 10 pallets of wood. At the village of Suchandsuch we slaughtered three dozens, and the village of Thatotherplace, we did kill four score, and the village of Wrapitupalready, they abjectly surrendered and promised us 20 fatted hogs and half again as many the next year. So recorded, King the Mighty of Cityname'

But that on a galactic sector scale, and that could be what the outer 'stone' layer is, with all the necron glyphs. Though obviously there isn't any counter part for the unit buffing and teleporting inside mechanisms.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/06 03:58:08


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 Aza'Gorod wrote:
If the heavy Gauss Canon is being replaced by the Gauss destructor then will that affect the Triarch stalker and its Twin heavy gauss cannon?

Also and this is just a while guess but considering the enmitic weapon on the Lord is 2D3 Str 6 -1 1 damage I'm thinking maybe the Heavy destroyer version might be 2d6 Str 8 -2 d3 damage, just a complete guess on my part but its a huge gun in comparison to what the Lord uses (though I get comparing gun size doesn't translate into stats


The profile for the Twin Heavy Guass Cannon could change, but I don't think it's likely.

If I were to guess, the Enmitic weapon on the Lokhust is going to be anti-elite infantry weapon. I could see it being something like 3D3 or more shots, with Ap -1-2 and damage 1-2. The Gauss looks like it is still going to be the anti-tank weapon.

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IanVanCheese wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational


There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.

If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.

But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.


I play against death guard a lot and the reapers at max range will still hurt plague marines more than flayers in rapid fire range from my napkin maths.
   
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I'm not sure comparing a 12 pts troop choice with a 31 pts (in 8th) heavy support one is fair for warriors.
Sure Dark Reapers are better to shoot sturdy things. But point for point they are also much more fragile.
With a higher density in terrain, smaller tables and strategic reserves, static gunline may be less dominant in 9th.

 
   
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He’s meaning the new weapon option for Necron Warriors, not Dark Reapers

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
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The dark behind the eyes.

I think my biggest concern is that Necrons still won't be viable without 3 DDAs, because all our other anti-tank is still garbage, in spite of both the new models and the revised rules.

Akiasura wrote:
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"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
 
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