We all iz 'un big Waaagh! Tribe - Index Orks 10th Edition Tactics

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**Waaaghpower**

Jidmah wrote:

Sure, if your weirdboy explodes and kills half of your mob, that's bad luck. But you might as well have rolled terribly on your charges twice for the same result. Stuff like that just happens.
You can plan for not jumping though. Jumping in this edition is more reliable that it ever was, and people managed with the lower chances in previous editions just fine. Deploy and plan for rolling a '1' so your mob is in a good position even if it doesn't jump. Eventually da jump will get off, and worst case just sling your 'eadbanger at vehicles or monsters to draw your opponents to them.

I don't totally agree on the 'Rolling terribly for charges twice' thing, because charges - and most other forms of luck in the game - typically have ways to mitigate bad luck or at least create a system of counterplay where the luck I need is dependent on my opponent's play.

With charging, a deep strike charge is and always will be a gamble that's never reliable, which is fair. (Though units like Zagstruck with an 'Ere We Go stratagem can make it reasonably likely.)

Outside of set situations like that, (Deep Strike will always need a 9+ before special modifiers,) the distance I need to roll is always the result of both my play and my opponent's counterplay. If I've got a 300 point mob that my opponent is scared of, they might move away from it, making my roll harder, or I might try to pin them in and put the mob in the center, making it more likely to reach. It's a strategic push and pull. (This is one element of old Deep Strikes that I actually preferred - Because you risked damage by being close to enemies, but also got various benefits, you could choose to deep strike far away and safely, or close and with high risk. (Then units like Drop Pods screwed this up by being too reliable/safe, but that's neither here nor there.))

Or, even more directly - Any saving throw is a matter of luck. Rolling a 1 on a 2+ save is bad luck, rolling a 5 on a 6+ save is bad luck. All those elements average out overtime, though, and using things like cover or stratagems to boost defensiveness, or high AP weapons and plunging fire to decrease defensiveness, are ways to influence the balance of luck in a game.

With 'Ere We Go and other '2+ or Middle Finger' abilities, though, there's no way to mitigate it and very few ways to plan for it. Even 'Deploying so you're in a good place even if you roll a 1' isn't always possible, especially if you're trying to run a horde army - If you deploy into prime real estate, you're going to be displacing another unit that can't teleport. Plus, when moving, you have to choose between Advancing and not getting to shoot/sometime charge, even if your teleport is successful and the movement was irrelevant, or staying stationary and screwing yourself even further on a 1.

I'd prefer it a lot if the mortal wounds were higher and the teleport always happened. (Like, on a 2+ you teleport safely, on a one you take 3+d3 mortal wounds, or make it something like an Emergency Disembark rule where you roll based on the number of models being teleported, but you still teleport.) As it stands, I can't imagine taking Weirdboys to any sort of tournament setting, because one bad roll could literally lose you the entire tournament and there's nothing at all you can do to prevent that bad roll from happening.

IMO focusing on points per wounds is old edition thinking. You need your mobs to actually kill gak if you want to win a game, and adding a beast boss to a mob of beastsnagga boyz significantly increases their ability to kill stuff. I'm sure I'd rather run two mobs of beastsnaggas with a beastboss attached than a three mobz without a character.
That said, I have no experience with either the wurrboy or the painboss, so I'm not sure whether they might actually be worth adding.

The Wurrboy seems pretty awful at the moment, IMO - His special power is a Leadership interaction, which I think everyone recognizes isn't as potent as it should be right now and most Leadership abilities are heavily overcosted. He's got no melee, and that just leaves his witchfire as the only reason to take him - But the witchfire is only cost effective in a large horde, and if I'm taking a large horde, I'd much rather bring something to buff that horde instead of just getting a handful of S8 5+ to hit shots.

Painboss is better - albeit something I've had very minimal play with. It's a bit awkward to actually use his 'Heal a Character' ability, but I've seen him play very well with Beastbosses on Squigosaurs, and he's a cheap way to bring extra durability to a bigger mob.

**PaddyMick**

I'm tossing up between the Mad Dok and a regular painboy for my 20 man boyz unit right now; the fall back and charge is really good, but you miss out on bringing d3 boyz back and potential mortals with the 'urty syringe (3+ 4+ needed, might get a couple of goes at it, might roll a 1 if it goes off). There's 5 points between them. Painboy with the trait to fall back and charge is 20 points more in total. Leaning towards mad dok.

**Forceride**

My issue with FNP5 is, the moment the opponent brings d2 or more weapons is basically not worth it, the inv shines is there, would be great if you could bring both and it was cheap. Also it's worth shooting them, since they are around 200pts a unit.

FNP is great in units like hogs but i find it rare being shot by D1 weapons if i bring it. It's not like it would be overpowered Anyway, plenty of armies have access to data sheets that cost less and have similar defensive profiles while being killy.

**locarno24**

Playing that without a mek workshop feels like a sin.

I can swap meks #2 and #3 for a workshop but I think I'd rather have the lone operative characters to follow the 'nauts up the board. Besides, they give +1 to hit...

I do keep thinking about an alternate dumb meme list based on fortifications and artillery, though.

**Coh Magnussen**

locarno24 wrote:

I do keep thinking about an alternate dumb meme list based on fortifications and artillery, though.

Out of curiosity, how big is the mekboy workshop? And in a situation like this would you just string it across your backfield with mek gunz and lootas to deny deepstrike while healing the overheats from kmk?

**PaddyMick**

I'm getting me a workshop just to experiment with it; I feel like it would be great for screening out the backfield. Worst case, i've just bought some more terrain, not the worst thing.

**locarno24**

Thing is, with it affecting every vehicle, and mek guns and bunkas having the vehicle keyword, the idea of three bunkas, 3 batteries of gunz, a workshop (maybe two) and a few other squads as like a fortress line seems quite a cool army.

**Beardedragon**

Been using Mega Nobz with twin kill saws for the first time today, accompanied by a Big mek in Mega Armor that is.

I am.. definitely underwhelmed by their damage outside the waaagh, with a measly two attacks getting no +1 to hit in melee. While their defensive profile is pretty good with the KFF and all, the 2 attacks hitting on 4s with twin linked seemed to amount to no damage at all.

Big mek + 5 mega nobz failed to kill ahriman (outside the waagh) which 10 beast snagga boys could have easily killed. and that wasnt because he made hot saves, i just.. didnt do anything.

Then later against magnus the same happened. No real damage. And surely i rolled under average on the hit roll but even so. The 2 standard attacks are lacking, and against someone like Ahriman i think i would rather have an extra attack than twin linked (aka my powerklaw).

I think people said twin kill saws were the way forward, but im inclined to lean towards killsaw/Power klaw combo so i can pick the best weapon for the situation.

But i will need more games with double kill saws first. Initial thought though is that it isnt that great.

Except on the waagh turn then its pretty good to fish for devastating wounds.

**Scactha**

Jidmah wrote:

In feel like green tide has been broke by design. GW does not want boyz without support to be a viable army, and I personally think that is a good thing. It requires some work for those who are used to playing that type of list and as it forces you to rethink how your army plays.
That said, I don't think all infantry lists are dead.

/.../

In general, your goal is not to table your opponent. Your goal is to push them out of midfield and prevent them from scoring as many secondaries as possible. You will end up killed or mostly killed in the majority of your games, but you will still win by a landslide of VP. Be aware that banking on a single defensive profile can backfire in 10th, as you might run into an army that is hyper effective at killing boyz. In that case you just lose.

I´m struggling playing the midfield. I move the BW, Trukks, Nauts or similar to capture it but mostly get shot off and the melee threat is then whittled down by small arms. I somehow don´t get how to pace this part right.

**dan2026**

How do people run Badrukk and his Flash Gitz mob?
Start in a Trukk and burn up the board?
On foot?
Some other way?

**Waaaghpower**

Beardedragon wrote:
Been using Mega Nobz with twin kill saws for the first time today, accompanied by a Big mek in Mega Armor that is.

I am.. definitely underwhelmed by their damage outside the waaagh, with a measly two attacks getting no +1 to hit in melee. While their defensive profile is pretty good with the KFF and all, the 2 attacks hitting on 4s with twin linked seemed to amount to no damage at all.

Big mek + 5 mega nobz failed to kill ahriman (outside the waagh) which 10 beast snagga boys could have easily killed. and that wasnt because he made hot saves, i just.. didnt do anything.

Then later against magnus the same happened. No real damage. And surely i rolled under average on the hit roll but even so. The 2 standard attacks are lacking, and against someone like Ahriman i think i would rather have an extra attack than twin linked (aka my powerklaw).

I think people said twin kill saws were the way forward, but im inclined to lean towards killsaw/Power klaw combo so i can pick the best weapon for the situation.

But i will need more games with double kill saws first. Initial thought though is that it isnt that great.

Except on the waagh turn then its pretty good to fish for devastating wounds.

I feel like, at least on paper, it looks like "Killsaws go with Warbosses, Power Klaws go with Meks."

Warbosses in Mega Armor have 12 strength, matching the Killsaw, so you don't have to worry about mismatched targets. They also compensate for a lower number of attacks with their accuracy buff, making for a unit that can deal some pretty scary S12 hits. A full sized trukk mob is potentially throwing out 50% more hits (8.5 hits versus 13) than the same mob with a Big Mek outside of WAAAGH turns, and on WAAAGH turns you're getting 40% more hits. (12.5 versus 17.5)

Spoiler:

Meks, meanwhile, can take Klaws that match Meganob Klaws, meaning there's no Strength mismatch, and they can buff the Meganob shooting - which works better on a Klaw unit than a Saw unit. And sure, the shooting is never going to be *amazing*, but it's still nice to make full use of a unit's buffs, rather than just partial use. Plus, with the Mek, your objective is to be a sticky blob that's really hard to shoot off the board, you're less concerned about DPS against really beefy targets.

**Beardedragon**

Yea.. thats true. I did think about the Warboss in mega armor but his own waaagh round ability is just effing useless. a 4+++ to himself? Why would i care. Usually if he gets targeted the rest of his unit is dead, by which, i dont care about whether hes alive or not as he only has 4 attacks anyway.

His only redeeming quality is his +1 to hit in melee to the Mega Nobz, which do actually make him a tiny consideration for me.

On the other hand the Big Mek can ressurrect mega nobz, heal them and give them a 4++ against ranged attacks. thats pretty slick, he simply misses the +1 to hit.

The Big mek over all seem like he gives much better survivability and utility for the Mega Nobz, where as the Warboss in mega armor, is over all not a good enough combatant, and his +1 to hit seem not as good as the things the big mek does for the mega nobz.

So over all the defensive buffs of one, seem to outweight the damage buff from the other. But i could be wrong. Actually being able to deploy the mega nobz to the frontline without dying seem like better value than being able to deal good damage when you get there, except you are most likely missing the entire or half the unit when you get there.

I wish the Warboss in mega armor had the same buff to extra waaagh attacks as the normal warboss did, rather than his useless 4+++

**Grimskul**

dan2026 wrote:
How do people run Badrukk and his Flash Gitz mob?
Start in a Trukk and burn up the board?
On foot?
Some other way?

I usually put them in a Trukk and depending on the opponent I either put them in Strategic Reserves or drive them up the board on a specific flank. They're usually one of the last ones I do deploy on the table if they're not going into reserves so you can ideally make sure they're downrange of an ideal target (which thankfully are most things, if you can pop off the ammo runt). I don't like them on foot because they're an ideal target for enemy overwatch and it's too easy for them to be singled out for deep striking units. With a trukk, you can shoot at least in some capacity in safety and then pop out when you're in ideal cover or position to light up a unit where you can ensure you can avoid as much damage as possible.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Yea.. thats true. I did think about the Warboss in mega armor but his own waaagh round ability is just effing useless. a 4+++ to himself? Why would i care. Usually if he gets targeted the rest of his unit is dead, by which, i dont care about whether hes alive or not as he only has 4 attacks anyway.

His only redeeming quality is his +1 to hit in melee to the Mega Nobz, which do actually make him a tiny consideration for me.

On the other hand the Big Mek can ressurrect mega nobz, heal them and give them a 4++ against ranged attacks. thats pretty slick, he simply misses the +1 to hit.

The Big mek over all seem like he gives much better survivability and utility for the Mega Nobz, where as the Warboss in mega armor, is over all not a good enough combatant, and his +1 to hit seem not as good as the things the big mek does for the mega nobz.

So over all the defensive buffs of one, seem to outweight the damage buff from the other. But i could be wrong. Actually being able to deploy the mega nobz to the frontline without dying seem like better value than being able to deal good damage when you get there, except you are most likely missing the entire or half the unit when you get there.

I wish the Warboss in mega armor had the same buff to extra waaagh attacks as the normal warboss did, rather than his useless 4+++

Yeah, the Warboss in Mega Armour has a really big missed opportunity on getting a much more meaningful buff during a WAAAGH! turn. If they really want to focus up on him and his unit being dead 'ard during a WAAAGH! either make it so the entire unit gets a 4+ FNP on a WAAAGH! Turn or that they are able to get something like Strike First or even -1D for that turn. As it is, there's very little incentive to take him.

**Waaaghpower**

Beardedragon wrote:
Yea.. thats true. I did think about the Warboss in mega armor but his own waaagh round ability is just effing useless. a 4+++ to himself? Why would i care. Usually if he gets targeted the rest of his unit is dead, by which, i dont care about whether hes alive or not as he only has 4 attacks anyway.

His only redeeming quality is his +1 to hit in melee to the Mega Nobz, which do actually make him a tiny consideration for me.

On the other hand the Big Mek can ressurrect mega nobz, heal them and give them a 4++ against ranged attacks. thats pretty slick, he simply misses the +1 to hit.

The Big mek over all seem like he gives much better survivability and utility for the Mega Nobz, where as the Warboss in mega armor, is over all not a good enough combatant, and his +1 to hit seem not as good as the things the big mek does for the mega nobz.

So over all the defensive buffs of one, seem to outweight the damage buff from the other. But i could be wrong. Actually being able to deploy the mega nobz to the frontline without dying seem like better value than being able to deal good damage when you get there, except you are most likely missing the entire or half the unit when you get there.

I wish the Warboss in mega armor had the same buff to extra waaagh attacks as the normal warboss did, rather than his useless 4+++

That's pretty fair, I'm not trying to argue that it's an equivalent choice, just that both weapons get their own niche.

It is pretty weird and unfortunate that Megabosses have by far the worst 'Boss' ability in the codex. Comparing every character that has a "+1 to Hit and another ability" profile, nothing is as situational or weak as the Megaboss.

That said, if I'm rolling in a Battlewagon, I'm not going to be as worried about durability as if I'm footslogging, and if nothing else, +1 to hit does still increase dps by a solid 25%. The real problem, IMO, is not that the damage is bad, but that the damage niche overlaps too much with other units.

Orks have plenty of specialists for taking out vehicles and monsters, which cover 99% of high-toughness units where S12/13 matters. Sure, I could take 230 points of Meganobz+Warboss in a 180pt transport... Or I could take two squads of Squighog Boyz with Nobz, or a couple beastbosses with beastboys, or a Beastboss on a Squigosaur.

The only niche Meganobz fill well that isn't covered by other roles is durability, which is supplemented by a Big Mek, and I find that I'd rather play to a units strengths than try to shore up its weaknesses.

...that said, Ghazzy with six Meganobz coming in with Strategic Reserves seems like it could be pretty gnarly DPS, and compensates for their slow movement. Plus you don't even really need S12 when you have +1 to Wound and Lethal Hits.

You'd have to go for a Turn 2 WAAAGH, though, which might be too late - has anyone had luck with this?

**Beardedragon**

Waaaghpower wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Yea.. thats true. I did think about the Warboss in mega armor but his own waaagh round ability is just effing useless. a 4+++ to himself? Why would i care. Usually if he gets targeted the rest of his unit is dead, by which, i dont care about whether hes alive or not as he only has 4 attacks anyway.

His only redeeming quality is his +1 to hit in melee to the Mega Nobz, which do actually make him a tiny consideration for me.

On the other hand the Big Mek can ressurrect mega nobz, heal them and give them a 4++ against ranged attacks. thats pretty slick, he simply misses the +1 to hit.

The Big mek over all seem like he gives much better survivability and utility for the Mega Nobz, where as the Warboss in mega armor, is over all not a good enough combatant, and his +1 to hit seem not as good as the things the big mek does for the mega nobz.

So over all the defensive buffs of one, seem to outweight the damage buff from the other. But i could be wrong. Actually being able to deploy the mega nobz to the frontline without dying seem like better value than being able to deal good damage when you get there, except you are most likely missing the entire or half the unit when you get there.

I wish the Warboss in mega armor had the same buff to extra waaagh attacks as the normal warboss did, rather than his useless 4+++

That's pretty fair, I'm not trying to argue that it's an equivalent choice, just that both weapons get their own niche.

It is pretty weird and unfortunate that Megabosses have by far the worst 'Boss' ability in the codex. Comparing every character that has a "+1 to Hit and another ability" profile, nothing is as situational or weak as the Megaboss.

That said, if I'm rolling in a Battlewagon, I'm not going to be as worried about durability as if I'm footslogging, and if nothing else, +1 to hit does still increase dps by a solid 25%. The real problem, IMO, is not that the damage is bad, but that the damage niche overlaps too much with other units.

Orks have plenty of specialists for taking out vehicles and monsters, which cover 99% of high-toughness units where S12/13 matters. Sure, I could take 230 points of Meganobz+Warboss in a 180pt transport... Or I could take two squads of Squighog Boyz with Nobz, or a couple beastbosses with beastboys, or a Beastboss on a Squigosaur.

The only niche Meganobz fill well that isn't covered by other roles is durability, which is supplemented by a Big Mek, and I find that I'd rather play to a units strengths than try to shore up its weaknesses.

...that said, Ghazzy with six Meganobz coming in with Strategic Reserves seems like it could be pretty gnarly DPS, and compensates for their slow movement. Plus you don't even really need S12 when you have +1 to Wound and Lethal Hits.

You'd have to go for a Turn 2 WAAAGH, though, which might be too late - has anyone had luck with this?

oh but i already am using 5 mega Nobz with Ghaz, i simply ran 5 more with a big mek, but i had to figure out if i should shift them out with a warboss in Mega Armor. They stroll around in a trukk though, so not really the most durable transport. I need a few more games in to determine what makes most sense. Maybe i dont really need the 4++ from a big mek and i end up actually shifting to the mega boss.

Also whats wrong with round 2 waaaghs? Most ork players i know usually call a waaagh by round 2. I think thats the most Waaagh'ed round generally unless you use a REALLY speedy list for round 1 waaaghs.

Usually i just move up the board while trying to stay in cover and out of sight with my trukks, seems to work fine.

**Forceride**

Did not fully understand that turn 1 waaagh, i also only call it T2, rarely see a case unless i am playing against an opponent that I know will be on my deploy T1. Nids do it reliable in the new detach.

**Beardedragon**

Since i have never used a force that can gap that 24" distance between me and my enemy i have never called a round 1 waaagh in 10th edition.

for me its around 90% round 2 waagh and 10ish% round 3 waaaghs.

If my enemy has turn 1 its even worse as when i call it, they can simply.. not go forward as they have time to react to it.

**Waaaghpower**

Forceride wrote:
Did not fully understand that turn 1 waaagh, i also only call it T2, rarely see a case unless i am playing against an opponent that I know will be on my deploy T1. Nids do it reliable in the new detach.

Huh. Conventional wisdom at my LGS is that you should Turn 1 Waaagh, and I'd been playing on that assumption - I guess I shouldn't have assumed that three locals are a bulletproof source of info. 😅

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I threw together another test list, trying to go for better board control and avoid taking too many characters.

Spoiler:

Meganobz are meant to clog up the center of the board, bikes flank and harass, squighogs also flank and harass, hopefully killing vehicles, stormboyz deep strike to grab secondaries.

Kommandoes apply early pressure, lootas and grots camp to screen Deep Strikers and hold objectives, and Beastsnaggas pressing enemy shooting and charge forward to try to get into the enemy's face.

**PaddyMick**

I have a GT coming up and I had a realisation after losing heavily this week in a practice game, and having a good chat with my opponent about it, that the models I want to take means it's really hard to write a competative list, and if I'm prepared to set my expectation at zero wins, I can lean into just making as fun a list as possible.

I'll make my competative aim to get more than half of the points available in each game - so including 10 for painted, 55+. With that said, I'm not looking for list advice, but any tactical knowledge on how to do that would be appreciated

2 Meks, one with SCB
Mekboy workshop
3x11 grotz
2 Gorkanauts
Morkanaut
Stompa

I should add, it's on UKTC terrain, so I can hide everything except the stompa, which can't hide completely if I go anywhere with it. Hiding means getting into combat sometimes R3 instead of R2. I'm thinking unless they can take down more than one big guy T1, i'm better off on the line with the titanic units.
(here's the mission pack https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WV085gGnMPOF-zprcri-9HDW5BWBE34HGc9ndIGRJHM/edit)

**Forceride**

I am honestly going to try and break the current transport focus, i want to see if i can make a half decent list that does not depend so much on truck...

I haven't been lucky so far...

Jidmah pointed in the correct direction of aiming for kommandos, trying to consider other useful tools i can bring. Wish me luck.

Also going to test Gaz from reserves, who knows, might work.

**Waaaghpower**

Forceride wrote:
I am honestly going to try and break the current transport focus, i want to see if i can make a half decent list that does not depend so much on truck...

I haven't been lucky so far...

Jidmah pointed in the correct direction of aiming for kommandos, trying to consider other useful tools i can bring. Wish me luck.

Also going to test Gaz from reserves, who knows, might work.

I've been trying to do the same thing! Please let me know what luck you have.
Squighog Boyz for damage and speed and Lootas for backfield board control and fire support have both been useful for me, but I'm struggling to win with pure footslogging. I think you're right that reserves and Kommandos are the way to go.

**Forceride**

Waaaghpower wrote:
Forceride wrote:
I am honestly going to try and break the current transport focus, i want to see if i can make a half decent list that does not depend so much on truck...

I haven't been lucky so far...

Jidmah pointed in the correct direction of aiming for kommandos, trying to consider other useful tools i can bring. Wish me luck.

Also going to test Gaz from reserves, who knows, might work.

I've been trying to do the same thing! Please let me know what luck you have.
Squighog Boyz for damage and speed and Lootas for backfield board control and fire support have both been useful for me, but I'm struggling to win with pure footslogging. I think you're right that reserves and Kommandos are the way to go.

Facing what i think is a heavily competitive nid list today... i suspect vanguard. I am honestly more inclined for buggy/defkopta support on the back lines, more reliable shots, de-buffs and about the same cost, i am still carrying 2 trucks of 5 nobz. But yeah squighogs and kommandos is the way i think.. not so sure of reserved Ghaz. On the bugguies i think snazz wagon and kustom-boosta are winners so far, rukkatruck might be good too.

My issue with ghaz is the cost for what he bring into the table.

**locarno24**

PaddyMick wrote:
I have a GT coming up and I had a realisation after losing heavily this week in a practice game, and having a good chat with my opponent about it, that the models I want to take means it's really hard to write a competative list, and if I'm prepared to set my expectation at zero wins, I can lean into just making as fun a list as possible.

I'll make my competative aim to get more than half of the points available in each game - so including 10 for painted, 55+. With that said, I'm not looking for list advice, but any tactical knowledge on how to do that would be appreciated

2 Meks, one with SCB
Mekboy workshop
3x11 grotz
2 Gorkanauts
Morkanaut
Stompa

I should add, it's on UKTC terrain, so I can hide everything except the stompa, which can't hide completely if I go anywhere with it. Hiding means getting into combat sometimes R3 instead of R2. I'm thinking unless they can take down more than one big guy T1, i'm better off on the line with the titanic units.
(here's the mission pack https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WV085gGnMPOF-zprcri-9HDW5BWBE34HGc9ndIGRJHM/edit)

I'd love to hear how it goes!

**PaddyMick**

No worries, i'll hopefully have some practice games to report on soon

My mekboy workshop has just arrived; sounds a bit gamey, but stringing it out, you can have a line about 40'' long, screening out deep strikers, healing vehicles within 12'', that the enemy can't move over. It can be destoyed of course (80 points, T9, 10W, 4+ save)

**locarno24**

That's bigger than I thought! I was considering it as part of a sort of fortress line (with Bigead Boss Bunkas and mek guns) and wasn't sure if I'd need 1 or 2 to cover most of the board. Looks like 1 should be fine.

And....yes it can be destroyed but if your opponent is putting lascannon and railgun fire into THAT it's not going into thr massive Stompa spitting deffkannon shells and rokkits. I call that a win.

The fact that oath of moment is no longer 'instant death to centrepiece models vs space marines' is reassuring too.

**RedNoak**

Forceride wrote:

Facing what i think is a heavily competitive nid list today... i suspect vanguard. I am honestly more inclined for buggy/defkopta support on the back lines, more reliable shots, de-buffs and about the same cost, i am still carrying 2 trucks of 5 nobz. But yeah squighogs and kommandos is the way i think.. not so sure of reserved Ghaz. On the bugguies i think snazz wagon and kustom-boosta are winners so far, rukkatruck might be good too.

My issue with ghaz is the cost for what he bring into the table.

if you can, dont bring buggy or koptaz, use grottanks with rokkits. highly mobile, with a reaction-move build in. good defences and 5 rokkits for 155points with bs4 is a steal on such a platform.

for ghaz... consider rapid ingress on enemy turn. put him somwhere near behind LOS. you may not be able to hide him entirely... but you dont need that. just make sure not the entire enemy army has LOS. REMEMBER. he's infantry now, so he can just waltz through ruins, walls etc.

**Bossdoc**

mekboy workshop has just arrived; sounds a bit gamey, but stringing it out, you can have a line about 40'' long, screening out deep strikers, healing vehicles within 12'', that the enemy can't move over. It can be destoyed of course (80 points, T9, 10W, 4+ save)

Fun fact: the workshop has the vehicle keyword, so it repairs itself each turn...

**Beardedragon**

Bossdoc wrote:
mekboy workshop has just arrived; sounds a bit gamey, but stringing it out, you can have a line about 40'' long, screening out deep strikers, healing vehicles within 12'', that the enemy can't move over. It can be destoyed of course (80 points, T9, 10W, 4+ save)

Fun fact: the workshop has the vehicle keyword, so it repairs itself each turn...

So can Meka dreads. So its not as unique as it sounds.

**PaddyMick**

Bossdoc wrote:
mekboy workshop has just arrived; sounds a bit gamey, but stringing it out, you can have a line about 40'' long, screening out deep strikers, healing vehicles within 12'', that the enemy can't move over. It can be destoyed of course (80 points, T9, 10W, 4+ save)

Fun fact: the workshop has the vehicle keyword, so it repairs itself each turn...

Yes that's funny

but i've realised that also means your own vehicles can't move across it, so positioning is critical.

**Forceride**

RedNoak wrote:
Forceride wrote:

Facing what i think is a heavily competitive nid list today... i suspect vanguard. I am honestly more inclined for buggy/defkopta support on the back lines, more reliable shots, de-buffs and about the same cost, i am still carrying 2 trucks of 5 nobz. But yeah squighogs and kommandos is the way i think.. not so sure of reserved Ghaz. On the bugguies i think snazz wagon and kustom-boosta are winners so far, rukkatruck might be good too.

My issue with ghaz is the cost for what he bring into the table.

if you can, dont bring buggy or koptaz, use grottanks with rokkits. highly mobile, with a reaction-move build in. good defences and 5 rokkits for 155points with bs4 is a steal on such a platform.

for ghaz... consider rapid ingress on enemy turn. put him somwhere near behind LOS. you may not be able to hide him entirely... but you dont need that. just make sure not the entire enemy army has LOS. REMEMBER. he's infantry now, so he can just waltz through ruins, walls etc.

Don't have the model, but this was me just trying to see if i can get way from trucks. Kommandos and hogs were fine for what they were there to do. It still went how i expected, since it was my first time dealing with the list. Von Ryan's leapers are anti infantry and can't be dealt easily with simply kommandos or nobz, i realized this too late, and should have moved my cavalry to deal with them. Their obnoxious hard to deal with shooting too. Neurolictor is an amazing support expect one in every list, handle them fast since it empowers stuff greatly with things like +1 to hit and +1 wound if BS.

Snazzwagon is too weak to be close to the frontlines, even though it's aura is great, i am considering going back to the boosta.
Ghaz is going back to the shelf, coupled with it's high cost and the fact it needs T2 to do impact makes it completely worthless... he killed 2 exocrine's and flyrant before i conceeded, again my issue is not the datasheet it's the cost to make it viable 5nobz+ghaz is steep.. and i can get more out of those points with other stuff.
The kommandos squig bombs are nasty, managed to down a neurolictor T1, but considering my opponent had ample tools to deal with infantry, i was heading into big probs. Between genstealers and the von ryan's i was hard pressed attempting to clean stuff, mostly because of the cavalry mistake.

Thought's:
Ghaz can work but needs something that can handle itself in the table with out his help until T2... i am not sure this is possible due to cost
I am currently considering that maybe bikes might also be an option in the list..or stormboyz
I haven't tried slabs of 20 boyz, but it would be interesting to try, although it makes the list vulnerable to T10 or above, also the slabs become expensive since they need support of 2 characters.
kommandos are really good for soaking ranged, but their just boyz, the flamer ain't worth it but the rokkit might be.
hogs are a must have, bring 3x3 units with nob
meck guns might have a place here