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Yeah its very interesting like that Gwar. No transport loans between units I guess now!

Lexx wrote:Yeah its very interesting like that Gwar. No transport loans between units I guess now!

Loans are just fine, nothing stops other units using them (ala Witch Hunters).

What you can't do is take 20 Warriors and have a Venom go off and transport something else, you have to take 6 Warriors. D:

Still, I can see Trueborn being used as Melta Vets really. 4 of them with Blasters, Haywires and a Venom with Nightshields is only 181 points.

Gwar! wrote:

Lexx wrote:Yeah its very interesting like that Gwar. No transport loans between units I guess now!

Loans are just fine, nothing stops other units using them (ala Witch Hunters).

What you can't do is take 20 Warriors and have a Venom go off and transport something else, you have to take 6 Warriors. D:

Still, I can see Trueborn being used as Melta Vets really. 4 of them with Blasters, Haywires and a Venom with Nightshields is only 181 points.

Ah interesting. Yes I will be tempted to field the venom with blaster true-born myself.

I think it should not be under-estimated that Harlequins can(?) now embark upon a transport. Although not their own, this will significantly help them I expect...

Just Dave wrote:I think it should not be under-estimated that Harlequins can(?) now embark upon a transport. Although not their own, this will significantly help them I expect...

Harlequins could always use transports, they just can't buy their own dedicated transports (same as in Craftworld Eldar). This is why people complain, as there's really no reason they shouldn't have the option for a DT. I can see those folks who want to give them transports having their Trueborn or Kabalite Warrior squads that have Dark Lances give theirs up for the Harlies while they bunker up in cover. It's not that hard to achieve, just an annoying oversight/omittance.

Gwar! wrote:What you can't do is take 20 Warriors and have a Venom go off and transport something else, you have to take 6 Warriors. D:

Five. :(

whocares wrote:

Gwar! wrote:What you can't do is take 20 Warriors and have a Venom go off and transport something else, you have to take 6 Warriors. D:

Five. :(

Derp. Yes, Five. My bad. xD

Skarboy wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I think it should not be under-estimated that Harlequins can(?) now embark upon a transport. Although not their own, this will significantly help them I expect...

Harlequins could always use transports, they just can't buy their own dedicated transports (same as in Craftworld Eldar). This is why people complain, as there's really no reason they shouldn't have the option for a DT. I can see those folks who want to give them transports having their Trueborn or Kabalite Warrior squads that have Dark Lances give theirs up for the Harlies while they bunker up in cover. It's not that hard to achieve, just an annoying oversight/omittance.

True, but whilst vulnerable, Raiders/Venoms are open-topped, meaning that the Harlequins have greater chance of getting their all-important charge...
IMHO, they are included due to the fans desire for them to be. What is gained in preference is arguably lost in competitiveness.

Just played a very fun and very informative game against the new DE with my mech IG.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/323069.page#2033589

Might be useful to add to the discussion.

Shep wrote:Just played a very fun and very informative game against the new DE with my mech IG.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/323069.page#2033589

Might be useful to add to the discussion.

That was fun to read. Venoms aplenty once anti-armour is sorted.. Check!

Here is a quick question. If an Archon has a huskblade, does the retinue guy still give him Poison (2+)?

zeekill wrote:Here is a quick question. If an Archon has a huskblade, does the retinue guy still give him Poison (2+)?

No, because the Huskblade isn't a poison weapon and the Lhamaeans only improve Poisoned weapons.

Gwar! wrote:

zeekill wrote:Here is a quick question. If an Archon has a huskblade, does the retinue guy still give him Poison (2+)?

No, because the Huskblade isn't a poison weapon and the Lhamaeans only improve Poisoned weapons.

Sadface

My biggest problem with the new codex is that I can't justify taking Warriors. Someone convince me otherwise. I just don't see Warriors as anything more than a cheap scoring unit (maybe taking two units of five in Venoms for that purpose only), but it seems like everything they do, something else can do twice as well.

I see my Delfdar list looking something like, Lelith, three units of Wyches in Raiders, two units of Warriors in Venoms, two units of Incubi, two Ravagers with Dark Lances, one Voidraven, two units of five Reavers.

Upgraded appropriately.

I just can't justify a unit of Warriors that isn't run as cheaply as possible.

Anyone else feel that way? Or am I totally missing something awesome that Warriors can do?

The thing I see Warriors doing is holding objective. Although Wracks might be tougher to kill in my view, they need to be getting into combat. Warriors will happily sit on an objective all day long shooting anything that comes within line of sight.

Oshova

Oshova wrote:The thing I see Warriors doing is holding objective. Although Wracks might be tougher to kill in my view, they need to be getting into combat. Warriors will happily sit on an objective all day long shooting anything that comes within line of sight.

Oshova

Which is why I can't justify taking more than five in a Venom. Anything more than that and you're spending more points on them than you need to be, in my opinion.

I don't see why everyone is going crazy of reavers, they don't look like they gained anything other than a yet to be played lance weapon. Now scourges look like their actually worth taking now.

Well, as a glass hammer, it is always good to have some units that don't rely on CC should you face opponents better at it than you (eg. Blood Angels), hence warriors can provide good support.
Also, they can provide valuable anti-infantry (unlike the constant Dark Lances), particularly when their Raider has the upgrade which benefits shooting from it.
However, I do also see 5 in a venom as the best choice. I think it would make a solid support unit alongside your tougher units...

Warriors have no use other than to put 5 in a Venom and pray to whatever Gribblies the DE pray to nowadays that they come in Turn 5.

Wracks are simply better, and Wyches are able to actually kill things. And since Hæmonculi are so dirt cheap, as well as being able to take multiples as well as being the only ones able to take the all important Crucible of Malediction, there is no reason to not take one.

Just Dave wrote:Well, as a glass hammer, it is always good to have some units that don't rely on CC should you face opponents better at it than you (eg. Blood Angels), hence warriors can provide good support.
Also, they can provide valuable anti-infantry (unlike the constant Dark Lances), particularly when their Raider has the upgrade which benefits shooting from it.
However, I do also see 5 in a venom as the best choice. I think it would make a solid support unit alongside your tougher units...

All good points, but I see Scourges providing better anti-infantry firepower than Warriors in a Raider. However, I don't want to use Scourges until they have their own models, so I'll be waiting on those.

I've followed this thread from its beginning, but i've seen nothing discussed about the new beastmasters, which personally I'm keen on from a fluffy/gribbly perspective.

Shock unit? Point sink?

Beast Masters
1-5 beastmasters per unit, ride skyboards, count as Beasts though
one beastmaster can take combat weapons like agonizers, no combat drugs
each beastmaster can only have ONE type of beast.
0-5 kymerae per beastmaster, 0-1 clawed fiend per beastmaster, 0-2 Vodwing Flock per beastmaster

Khymera - The old Warp Beast, 4/4/4/3/1/4/3/?/4++
Vodwing Flock - W5, A5, Rending
Clawed Fiend - 4 wounds and 4 attacks, the fiend also gains an attack for every wound it suffers

models wise would these do?

Chaos Spawn (Clawed Fiend) + Warriors of Chaos Warhounds (Khymera)??

All I have to say to that is:
5 Beastmasters,
10 Flockwings

60 Rending + 10 Normal Attacks.

Throw in 2 Haemonculi For Lulz and you have Furious Charge.

And then a WWP.

-Droooooool-

Question is, how expensive is that unit?

SaintHazard wrote:Question is, how expensive is that unit?

210 for the Beastmasters and Razorwings, +100 for 2 naked Hæmonculi.

Gwar! wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Question is, how expensive is that unit?

210 for the Beastmasters and Razorwings, +100 for 2 naked Hæmonculi.

So, probably not worth it. A full fifth of a 1500 point army

Maybe without the Haemonculi.

So is Vect able to disembark from his Dais, and run around as a SC as normal?

If so, that makes the points cost not SO terrible.

Magnalon wrote:So is Vect able to disembark from his Dais, and run around as a SC as normal?

If so, that makes the points cost not SO terrible.

Yes. All the Dias happens to be is a special Raider. Him and his Homies can jump out just fine.

I'm not sure that makes the points cost bearable. You pay for Vect and his Dais. Then you pay for his homies. That's a very expensive HQ unit. At least his Raider is beefier than average.

I have a question for you guys, now I obviously don't have the codex ready but from what I understand vect's raider for all intent is a raider. Does this mean that it only has a BS of 4 and that it does NOT have the rules for a Ravager?

My typically fielded HQ:

Archon w/ pistol, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, Agoniser w/ a 9 Man Incubi retinue mounted on a raider is about 411 pts. What's the new Vect cost?