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 KiloFiX wrote:
Another over engineered design by committee.

They should really build a smaller grenade instead of a bigger gun.

Or just invent this:

 Alex C wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
Another over engineered design by committee.

They should really build a smaller grenade instead of a bigger gun.

Or just invent this:

Reminds me of Aliens (2).

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I guess there's a large number of countries that are in dire need of Freedomizing from American Troops

Only if it speeds up my path to citizenship

 whembly wrote:
What are the Canadians up to?



Two please!

It isn't a new concept;

The US tread that path a while back with the XM29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective_Individual_Combat_Weapon
The project was shelved in 2004. But the grenade launcher component underwent further development and has been used in combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. Others countries have also tried this concept as part of the Land Warrior program; IdZ (Germany), FIST (UK), Félin (France), Land 125 (Australia), MARKUS (Sweden), Soldato Futuro (Italy), IMESS (Switzerland), Projekt TYTAN (Poland), FINSAS (India) and ACMS (Singapore), Ratnik (Russia).

 KiloFiX wrote:
Another over engineered design by committee.

They should really build a smaller grenade instead of a bigger gun.

The US OICW (XM29) had a 20mm grenade launcher

But I still think that 20mm (even at half that of the MGL or Mk19) is still too big to be magazine fed in a rifle.

I mean it's like almost 70% of those systems is the GL as opposed to the rifle.

They should just build a back mounted 40k Cyclone system.

I'd much rather just have an M203 than have to carry a rifle with a grenade launcher that is that humongous.

Id rather have an underslung m203 as well...

that gun just screams too big, too complicated, and ergonomically it appears to be a nightmare...

heck just undersling a shot gun with HIEX ammo... basically the same thing, but can also be used as a shotgun too.

or you know, just give one guy in the sqaud a real grenade launcher and train him properly...

fun fact,

while the AR-15 is a restricted baby killer up here... m203s are unrestricted requiring no license!


they are however, about 15K a pop, if you can ever find one...

you will never find ammo, have fun milling your own dummy rounds tho!

cheap 20mm flare versions abound though for a few k.

Looks like the ATF is trying to go after some types of 5.56mm ammunition.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Looks like the ATF is trying to go after some types of 5.56mm ammunition.

As the law is written, they are correct. Write your congressman, is my advice, as it's still in the proposal phase.

Presumably steel-core Tulammo in 7.62 is next once Hellpups get popular enough.


Maybe we should stay away from the political stuff? Once that door gets opened it's pretty hard to close.

Glad I'm sitting on several hundred rounds of M855 already

Could always use more though...

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Looks like the ATF is trying to go after some types of 5.56mm ammunition.

That is pretty frustrating. I hope they are unsuccessful.

The only thing uglier: Hi Point.

, every time I pick one of these up, I just want to smash it on the floor and put it out of its misery. These and the Jimenez pistols are not something I'd ever entertain loading to fire.

I haven't posted in ages, as my interest in 40k has evaporated completely, but I figured this was a thread for coming back into.

I can't remember ever single weapon we have at the moment, but it's in the neighborhood of 75-80 firearms (mostly collector pieces), and I will be a terrible tease with this one!



All matching and no import marks!

You lucky bastage

 Alex C wrote:
You lucky bastage

My wallet screamed "NOOOOO", but it had to be mine! It helps that this one goes with a 1942 JP Sauer 38H with holster and two mags that are all matching that were brought back by the same vet who brought this one back. I got the Sauer and was too late to double dip on the G43, but no more!

 Ouze wrote:
Maybe we should stay away from the political stuff? Once that door gets opened it's pretty hard to close.

I'm not trying to make the thread political, just aware that many people in their thread have rifles that fire 5.56mm rounds and who may want to stock up before any ban.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Maybe we should stay away from the political stuff? Once that door gets opened it's pretty hard to close.

I'm not trying to make the thread political, just aware that many people in their thread have rifles that fire 5.56mm rounds and who may want to stock up before any ban.

For this reason, I appreciate that you posted the info, as I had not heard about it before you did. I'll refrain from any political commentary on the matter in this thread, other than to say I don't like it.

This isn't really a political thing is it? It's a regulatory fiat by an ostensibly non political entity that stands to affect all gun owners. The effects of the ATF expanding their power in this manner could see all sorts of ammunition being banned on a whim. Their relabeling of a non-armor piercing rifle round as armor piercing because it can penetrate Level IIA soft armor is absolutely nonsense. Every centerfire rifle round on the planet will pierce IIA soft body armor. It's not rated to stop that kind of round ballistically! Nor is it designed to! So that opens up the possibility of ban for just about every rifle round ever made.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
This isn't really a political thing is it? It's a regulatory fiat by an ostensibly non political entity that stands to affect all gun owners. The effects of the ATF expanding their power in this manner could see all sorts of ammunition being banned on a whim. Their relabeling of a non-armor piercing rifle round as armor piercing because it can penetrate Level IIA soft armor is absolutely nonsense. Every centerfire rifle round on the planet will pierce IIA soft body armor. It's not rated to stop that kind of round ballistically! Nor is it designed to! So that opens up the possibility of ban for just about every rifle round ever made.

I think this is the core of it.

It's a nonpartisan regulatory agency making a ruling according to the letter of the law without regards to the reality of the nature of the thing they're making a ruling on.

They do have precedence however, they did the same thing to 7N6 5.45x39mm ammunition earlier last year.

I'm actually kind of ticked at gun manufacturers who are making what are basically novelty guns that allow the ATF an excuse to do this, even when the same thing already happened with 7N6.

 whembly wrote:
What are the Canadians up to?



Two please!

Fancy looking, but I bet its heavy as hell. Kind of reminds me of the rifles designed for the "Landwarrior" program. Looked nice, but really heavy.

Just bought a police trade in Glock 22 Gen 2 for dirt cheap. It is in really good condition for its age and obviously was not a holster gun or it would have a lot more wear on the plastic. I bought it simply because it was a Gen 2 and I like the round no rail look on a Glock. Only thing I don't like is the NY 11 pound trigger pull, but it shoots really nice.

Wife got a 10/22 Carbine Classic from her dad at the weekend as a birthday present. It has a schnabel forend, straight gripped walnut stock made by Altamont and is one of only 307 ever made.

She's itching to shoot it, but the weather needs to warm up from -20 degrees before that happens...

 Ruberu wrote:
Just bought a police trade in Glock 22 Gen 2 for dirt cheap. It is in really good condition for its age and obviously was not a holster gun or it would have a lot more wear on the plastic. I bought it simply because it was a Gen 2 and I like the round no rail look on a Glock. Only thing I don't like is the NY 11 pound trigger pull, but it shoots really nice.

Google Glock trigger jobs, those are cake for a DIY trigger modification to a more reasonable trigger.

 Ruberu wrote:
Just bought a police trade in Glock 22 Gen 2 for dirt cheap.

Those are usually pretty good purchases. Department budgets being what they are, it's probably barely been shot.

 Alex C wrote:
She's itching to shoot it, but the weather needs to warm up from -20 degrees before that happens...

I've been itching to shoot too, and I haven't for the same reason. There's an indoor range here but it's pistols only, and you have to buy their own ammo which is, in my opinion, poor quality for a premium price. I like the outdoor range a lot better because it's free and I can shoot what I like ammo-wise.

same here, something like 3 feet to 6 feet where it drifts of snow out at my range right now

 Ouze wrote:
I've been itching to shoot too, and I haven't for the same reason. There's an indoor range here but it's pistols only, and you have to buy their own ammo which is, in my opinion, poor quality for a premium price. I like the outdoor range a lot better because it's free and I can shoot what I like ammo-wise.

We're lucky in that the range we use allows rifles up to .308, and shotguns (using slugs only). Same rule for the ammo though, but the price is reasonable and quality good. Another range near here allowed people to bring their own ammo - until someone dumped a mag of tracer rounds into the rubber backstop. After the fire they're still rebuilding

The ban on XM855 62gr is already in place. It's 30 year exemption was pulled by the ATF Friday night (cool gig making up laws as the wind blows). Many distributors arent restocking the item, so what is out is it in regards to XM855.

The comment period that ATF published is to get ideas from retailers etc on implementing said ban.

Your only recourse is to contact your Congresscritters and Senators.

The neckbeards have just about emptied the shelves of XM855 and are now focusing on XM193, any 223 and reloading components. Add to this the restriction placed on once fired military brass (to be shredded and not sold to reloaders) from 2 years ago, and the era of "cheap" surplus 556 is pretty much over.

Cant ban the guns, so they went after the ammo.

What stinks is my rifles shoot 62gr much better than the 55gr stuff :(

 Spacemanvic wrote:
The ban on XM855 62gr is already in place. It's 30 year exemption was pulled by the ATF Friday night (cool gig making up laws as the wind blows). Many distributors arent restocking the item, so what is out is it in regards to XM855.

The comment period that ATF published is to get ideas from retailers etc on implementing said ban.

Your only recourse is to contact your Congresscritters and Senators.

The neckbeards have just about emptied the shelves of XM855 and are now focusing on XM193, any 223 and reloading components. Add to this the restriction placed on once fired military brass (to be shredded and not sold to reloaders) from 2 years ago, and the era of "cheap" surplus 556 is pretty much over.

Cant ban the guns, so they went after the ammo.

What stinks is my rifles shoot 62gr much better than the 55gr stuff :(

Disgusting. Really have no words for this. The law specifically says "The term “armor piercing ammunition” is defined, in pertinent part, as a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium."

M855 does not fit this definition at all, as it contains lead in the core. As usual, the ATF is just making gak up as they please.

Hopefully Sig fething bends them over for their ridiculous "ruling" on the SB15 brace.

But the Sig brace can be misused to allow the shouldering of a firearm with a barrel length of less than 16"!

Won't somebody think of the children!

Seriously, the crap they come up with there is ludicrous. Now they're trying to ban M855 because it can be used in pistols and defeats body armor. What's next? ALL .223/5.56? Gonna ban .308/7.62 too?

Here's a link to the new ATF move:

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Notices/atf_framework_for_determining_whether_certain_projectiles_are_primarily_intended_for_sporting_purposes.pdf

Start reading from page 14, you'll love it!

Since when was 2A about "sporting purpose" anyway?

Oh, and now it is considered AP because it can be fired from a pistol. The ammo magically transforms when fired from a pistol. Just like the SB15 brace magically transforms from a medical device into an NFA item if you shoulder it.

Should anyone tell them 855 doesnt get to enough velocity when fired from a barrel shorter than 14"?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alex C wrote:
But the Sig brace can be misused to allow the shouldering of a firearm with a barrel length of less than 16"!

Won't somebody think of the children!

Seriously, the crap they come up with there is ludicrous. Now they're trying to ban M855 because it can be used in pistols and defeats body armor. What's next? ALL .223/5.56? Gonna ban .308/7.62 too?

If ATF can get this to go without opposition, yup! Remember ALL center fire rifle ammunition can defeat body armor.

Based on the wording they absolutely intend to ban every rifle round for which a "pistol" with a capacity > 1 has ever been manufactured.

Just sitting here eating popcorn waiting for someone with brass balls to start voting with the ammo box.