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2020/03/30 23:42:00
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. Lumineth P.26, Avalenor & Alarith Stoneguard P.33.
I'm not very familiar with Seraphon. What kind of damage output does a Bastilodon have? Are we looking at a Distraction Carnifex you're better off ignoring, or is it something you really need to prioritize?
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2020/03/31 00:51:03
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : page 37 Seraphon FAQ and commentary
EnTyme wrote: I'm not very familiar with Seraphon. What kind of damage output does a Bastilodon have? Are we looking at a Distraction Carnifex you're better off ignoring, or is it something you really need to prioritize?
It isn’t that amazing so it is definitely ignorable. Pretty much every army has at lest some access to mortal wounds. A handful of mortal wounds will reduce its save so it can be attacked by regular units.
2020/03/31 02:58:19
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : page 37 Seraphon FAQ and commentary
The FAQ was meh over all. A few things expected, a few things frustratingly nerfed/changer already, and many questions still waiting to be answered. This was a really short FAQ....
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
EnTyme wrote: I'm not very familiar with Seraphon. What kind of damage output does a Bastilodon have? Are we looking at a Distraction Carnifex you're better off ignoring, or is it something you really need to prioritize?
It isn’t that amazing so it is definitely ignorable. Pretty much every army has at lest some access to mortal wounds. A handful of mortal wounds will reduce its save so it can be attacked by regular units.
At full stats 5/4 dmg per turn at 24" against a 5+/4+ save, 7.5/6 vs daemons. That is, however, assuming no buffs. A Thunder Lizard army could turn that into 13.3/10.7 average by spending 2 cp, so it can really depend on how they built the list. Ultimately for most armies it will not really be ignorable.
EnTyme wrote: I'm not very familiar with Seraphon. What kind of damage output does a Bastilodon have? Are we looking at a Distraction Carnifex you're better off ignoring, or is it something you really need to prioritize?
It isn’t that amazing so it is definitely ignorable. Pretty much every army has at lest some access to mortal wounds. A handful of mortal wounds will reduce its save so it can be attacked by regular units.
At full stats 5/4 dmg per turn at 24" against a 5+/4+ save, 7.5/6 vs daemons. That is, however, assuming no buffs. A Thunder Lizard army could turn that into 13.3/10.7 average by spending 2 cp, so it can really depend on how they built the list. Ultimately for most armies it will not really be ignorable.
You can't spend the CP twice on the same Basti. You need a second. That's a nearly 500 point investment without a hero so far. Is it bad? No. But it's not ideal.
Bastilidons are good. But they're slow, and the damage is okay, not great. Better to take Stegadons with bows. They move faster, hit harder, and can be Battleline in TL.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
EnTyme wrote: I'm not very familiar with Seraphon. What kind of damage output does a Bastilodon have? Are we looking at a Distraction Carnifex you're better off ignoring, or is it something you really need to prioritize?
It isn’t that amazing so it is definitely ignorable. Pretty much every army has at lest some access to mortal wounds. A handful of mortal wounds will reduce its save so it can be attacked by regular units.
At full stats 5/4 dmg per turn at 24" against a 5+/4+ save, 7.5/6 vs daemons. That is, however, assuming no buffs. A Thunder Lizard army could turn that into 13.3/10.7 average by spending 2 cp, so it can really depend on how they built the list. Ultimately for most armies it will not really be ignorable.
You can't spend the CP twice on the same Basti. You need a second. That's a nearly 500 point investment without a hero so far. Is it bad? No. But it's not ideal.
Bastilidons are good. But they're slow, and the damage is okay, not great. Better to take Stegadons with bows. They move faster, hit harder, and can be Battleline in TL.
You seem to believe those numbers are based off having one Bastiladon shoot three times. Were that the case, it would triple the damage output (that I even put a number at all instead of just saying "triple the damage output" should be a hint IMO). The number actually comes from using the command ability of the skink priest to give it +1 to hit then making it shoot twice. That same skink priest can also give it the ability to shoot (and charge) in the same turn it ran, helping its movement considerably, and +1 to saves for good measure. Said hero is 70 points, meaning the whole thing comes in at 290. This would be one thing in any other army where 2 cp is a considerable investment, but Seraphon are likely to be generating more than 2 cp every turn; a slann general alone (great rememberer) will be generating 1.5 by himself.
Not saying it is the greatest thing out there, but it is much stronger than something which can be written off as a distraction carnifex.
As for stegadons, different role. Most of their damage is in melee where they will deal considerably more than a bastiladon's shooting but they are also far less durable. Apples to oranges.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/31 07:45:13
The other thing to remember is that said skink priest can be killed.
If it were a buff built into the basti then fine, it would be far too much.
If you want to ignore the basti then just kill the skink priest and ignore it.
While people will shield the priest, they are then slowly sinking more points into a shield for him that has no other use while sitting there.
It is worth running a pair of basti though as once one begins to degrade you can just switch over to buff the other one instead.
Mortal wounds are still king as always though.
Certain units are going to just laugh at it then blast it from the board.
Only issue is that magic isn’t a reliable way to do so against lizards due to the sheer amount of unbinding they can have in a basic list.
I’m more worried about seeing kroak on a vortex with an astrolith near him.
The magic output from that is going to hurt like hell for whoever is on the other end of it.
2020/03/31 10:47:39
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. Lumineth P.26, Avalenor & Alarith Stoneguard P.33.
Kanluwen wrote: And the hammers' size doesn't mean jack when the elves in question are mystically drawing upon the strength of a fricking mountain to be super beefy.
Sigh. Feel free to read a physics textbook once in a while.
Firstly, having hammers that size isn't actually useful. The point of warhammers is to concentrate force into a relatively small area. Hence, their heads are still hammer-sized, not Loony-Toons-mallet-sized. By having them be this big, you're making them much harder to move and swing for virtually no gain.
Secondly, in practical terms, strength isn't actually the main problem. it's certainly *a* problem as, for example, no human alive would be able to heft weapons like that, so one's suspension of disbelief is already strained.
However, the main problem with human-sized creatures wielding preposterously large and heavy weapons is that they simply don't have the weight or grip to maintain their balance whilst swinging them. And, for about the 4th time, this has nothing to do with the user's strength, so magic super-strength won't actually help one iota with this issue.
I agree with everything you have said... however a lot of the fanbase on here are immune to rational criticism. They have the magic bullet that for them, kills it dead...
Just say 'Magic' as loud as they can to basically shout down any valid points. It is quite similar to how some meat eaters think shouting 'Bacon' is the answer to any discussion with a Vegetarian/Vegan. A glimpse I to a frightfully simple minded person.
Yes, magic is a part of AoS, especially concerning Elves... however that doesn't pardon badly designed models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/31 10:48:21
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
2020/03/31 19:30:52
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. Lumineth P.26, Avalenor & Alarith Stoneguard P.33.
Kanluwen wrote: And the hammers' size doesn't mean jack when the elves in question are mystically drawing upon the strength of a fricking mountain to be super beefy.
Sigh. Feel free to read a physics textbook once in a while.
Firstly, having hammers that size isn't actually useful. The point of warhammers is to concentrate force into a relatively small area. Hence, their heads are still hammer-sized, not Loony-Toons-mallet-sized. By having them be this big, you're making them much harder to move and swing for virtually no gain.
Secondly, in practical terms, strength isn't actually the main problem. it's certainly *a* problem as, for example, no human alive would be able to heft weapons like that, so one's suspension of disbelief is already strained.
However, the main problem with human-sized creatures wielding preposterously large and heavy weapons is that they simply don't have the weight or grip to maintain their balance whilst swinging them. And, for about the 4th time, this has nothing to do with the user's strength, so magic super-strength won't actually help one iota with this issue.
I agree with everything you have said... however a lot of the fanbase on here are immune to rational criticism. They have the magic bullet that for them, kills it dead...
Just say 'Magic' as loud as they can to basically shout down any valid points. It is quite similar to how some meat eaters think shouting 'Bacon' is the answer to any discussion with a Vegetarian/Vegan. A glimpse I to a frightfully simple minded person.
Yes, magic is a part of AoS, especially concerning Elves... however that doesn't pardon badly designed models.
The hyperbole is thicker than those hammers
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jackal90 wrote: The other thing to remember is that said skink priest can be killed.
If it were a buff built into the basti then fine, it would be far too much.
If you want to ignore the basti then just kill the skink priest and ignore it.
While people will shield the priest, they are then slowly sinking more points into a shield for him that has no other use while sitting there.
It is worth running a pair of basti though as once one begins to degrade you can just switch over to buff the other one instead.
Mortal wounds are still king as always though.
Certain units are going to just laugh at it then blast it from the board.
Only issue is that magic isn’t a reliable way to do so against lizards due to the sheer amount of unbinding they can have in a basic list.
I’m more worried about seeing kroak on a vortex with an astrolith near him.
The magic output from that is going to hurt like hell for whoever is on the other end of it.
Yeah, there is absolutely counter-play that can be done. It is far from the level of game-breaking that exists on the worst end, and not even the most OP thing in the battletome.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/31 19:33:09
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2020/04/04 14:23:21
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : page 37 Seraphon FAQ and commentary
So this has to be the first time that confirmation of a release of a brand new army is considered small news
Personally I think it just shows how good we've had it from GW in the last few years that people are "greedy" in what they want now.
And yes if isolation isn't ending until June then GW might well have to spread things out even further. I mean it does't really matter if they show us loads of cool stuff. The only things they can release now are e-books/products and the video stuff. All the rest is basically impossible for them to do with the factories closed. They could reveal 5 new armies for 40K and we'd have a great half hour and then NOTHING FOR MONTHS.
The book briefly shows faint line art of the three new Gargent types. It looks like GW have stuck to the gangly body type of the Aleguzzler.
I wonder if they will all be male ?
Looking forward to seeing more
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
This "army" box is pretty sad. About Start Collecting size, actually, though probably triple price. I wonder if Sisters sold so well GW decided to just throw every new army into the box from now on, complete with DLC locked character to prod sales up a bit?
2020/04/04 15:15:39
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar N & R. : page 37 Seraphon FAQ and commentary
Irbis wrote: This "army" box is pretty sad. About Start Collecting size, actually, though probably triple price. I wonder if Sisters sold so well GW decided to just throw every new army into the box from now on, complete with DLC locked character to prod sales up a bit?
I was amused at the "special dice" the Sisters ones were anything but!
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Irbis wrote: This "army" box is pretty sad. About Start Collecting size, actually, though probably triple price. I wonder if Sisters sold so well GW decided to just throw every new army into the box from now on, complete with DLC locked character to prod sales up a bit?
I wouldn't start crying wolf until we've actually seen the prices on the box - its a little early to jump-start on the complaints.
It contains the core of the army and all the rules and resources to use it. Honestly a pretty good box and if it comes with a discount then its a very GOOD thing because it means that you're getting basically everything you'd buy anyway starting the army with discount. Granted it might mean that you basically get the dice and cards for free or suchlike; but that's still a good deal in my book. There's basically no waste in the set - you get a key leader; core infantry and cavalry. So there's nothing to lose getting it if you were going to jump into the army.
From what I recall sisters sold well, its only detracting point was GW's choice to use mono-pose kits taht weren't as fleshed out as the normal kits; which is something we are seeing them adopt at large. Ergo getting started sets that offer good value, but which offer mono-pose/option construction whilst a more fleshed out and varied kit compliments them. Basically GW is seeing that, likely especially with smaller AoS armies, Getting started sets can end up being the bulk of the purchases for many customers. So GW is providing that, but at at same time limiting the options just a bit so that there's incentive for customers to also buy the other sets as well.
You get a presumably special character leader(important distinction since it'd be limited to 1 and we've seen how wonderfully bad it goes for split-boxing those ), presumably core infantry, and presumably core cavalry.
This opens the door for a Start Collecting or a big Battleforce later in the year for the holidays or early next year that will avoid the past issues of duplication of specific heroes or units.
Ballpark estimate, based off of the Sisters of Battle Army Pack? You're looking at around $200USD.
Going off of the prices for Ossiarch Bonereapers you're looking at $60 for the cavalry, $50 for the spears, $40 for the character=$150. $80 for the LE codex brings you to $230, $20 for the dice, $20(conservative estimate---Seraphon were $35 for some reason) for the warscroll cards brings you to $270.
2020/04/04 15:42:51
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : page 37 Seraphon FAQ and commentary
Kanluwen wrote: You get a presumably special character leader(important distinction since it'd be limited to 1 and we've seen how wonderfully bad it goes for split-boxing those ), presumably core infantry, and presumably core cavalry.
This opens the door for a Start Collecting or a big Battleforce later in the year for the holidays or early next year that will avoid the past issues of duplication of specific heroes or units.
Ballpark estimate, based off of the Sisters of Battle Army Pack? You're looking at around $200USD.
Going off of the prices for Ossiarch Bonereapers you're looking at $60 for the cavalry, $50 for the spears, $40 for the character=$150. $80 for the LE codex brings you to $230, $20 for the dice, $20(conservative estimate---Seraphon were $35 for some reason) for the warscroll cards brings you to $270.
I suppose th big difference is that the models in the new box are the same as general release models?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Overread wrote: I wouldn't start crying wolf until we've actually seen the prices on the box - its a little early to jump-start on the complaints.
Come on, take one look at how much GW charges for novelty dice and "special" cover books and tell me with a straight face you expect it to be any bargain.
Especially after Sister box was easily 166% price of older army boxes, never mind fail of the Phoenix one. A year ago I might have agreed with you, but now...?
2020/04/04 15:46:14
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar N & R. : page 37 Seraphon FAQ and commentary
Irbis wrote: This "army" box is pretty sad. About Start Collecting size, actually, though probably triple price. I wonder if Sisters sold so well GW decided to just throw every new army into the box from now on, complete with DLC locked character to prod sales up a bit?
I was amused at the "special dice" the Sisters ones were anything but!
What do you mean? They were great ones, the stained glass effect when held up to the light was especially nice.
2020/04/04 15:55:34
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar N & R. : page 37 Seraphon FAQ and commentary
Irbis wrote: This "army" box is pretty sad. About Start Collecting size, actually, though probably triple price. I wonder if Sisters sold so well GW decided to just throw every new army into the box from now on, complete with DLC locked character to prod sales up a bit?
I was amused at the "special dice" the Sisters ones were anything but!
What do you mean? They were great ones, the stained glass effect when held up to the light was especially nice.
No I could not get those in time - the "Miracle Dice" in the ltd ed box - the plain white ones
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Irbis wrote: This "army" box is pretty sad. About Start Collecting size, actually, though probably triple price. I wonder if Sisters sold so well GW decided to just throw every new army into the box from now on, complete with DLC locked character to prod sales up a bit?
I was amused at the "special dice" the Sisters ones were anything but!
Indeed, they were amazing: simple, high contrast, clutter free, and a very good size and weight. Only way they could have been better is if they were razor cut. Absolutely the best dice GW have put in a boxed set in a decade though. I liked them so much, I got two sets.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
2020/04/04 16:44:25
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : page 37 Seraphon FAQ and commentary
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
), presumably core infantry, and presumably core cavalry.
