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I haven’t had much of a chance to test him out. Will have to see how he performs in a few games. My Admech stuff has mostly been complimenting my knights.

It’s a Dark timeline for most armies that aren’t marines. But hopefully Admech has a few tricks up its sleeve. I’m looking to get back into them

His pocket Smite is amazingly good. Don't forget about it. D3 mortals on any character within spitting range. He also has a strong pistol. Him and Manipulus have surprisingly good CC.

I have had no problems running him at all. I usually have no problems if there are no enemies at all within 30" of my gunline.

So you think that D3 heal or mortals ability is best spent as an attack? since its once per game and such a short friggen range i never expect to get it on the enemy.

@Vineheart01
What, you never end up in CC? Lots of threats can get within 12" on turn one. You can also just run up to a character or vehicle and Smite it.

Another thing. Do not forget to Dataspike with Cawl when fighting vehicles!

--

New Skitarii coming out?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/10/22/the-rumour-engine-october-22nd-2019/

Looks like a lever action Galvanic Rifle.

Typically, no not really. He tends to just get shot off the board rather than charged if hes threatened at all, as with any of my characters that manage to get their screeners cleared off.

Oh. Weird. In the past three tourneys I have been, I have had to fight with my HQs multiple times. But then again, I run Dakkabots, so my opponent is desperate to get into CC. Ignores my characters quite often, so I have to heroically intervene. (Fun fact: You can't charge after emergency disembark, but to my knowledge, you can still heroically intervene. So your Enginseer and Manipulus can actually move quite a distance after jumping out of a dead Boat.)

Heroic Intervene is not a charge. It also denies your enemy from even swinging at the character unless they declared a charge against him too and just didnt reach him, but reached the unit next to him.
I dont have my bots assembled yet so my characters are usually around crawlers. Less of an importance, the melee guys are usually after my knight stuff.

Dr. D. is just amazing. He brings so much to the table he is an auto-pick for me (unless for whatever reason I would have decided to run an assault army). He's very useful in making Dakkabots mobile - Dr. D, Manipulus (preferably with Static Psalm Code upgrade), and Strafing Fire Run, and your bots have 8" + d6" + 36" +2/6" (depending on the Bolster) of a threat range. If you're leaning out of a LoS break (or try to regain a distance from the chargers), and the target is 24" from Dr. D. (while he catches Kastelans in 6" aura) you have your initial BS of 4+ after Advancing.

His only downside - very very squishy. 4+ armor save and 5++ are punishing nowadays. Snipers are priority targets for Belleros, especially if snipers can fire without LoS...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have been thinking about the anti-marine list, and I would be happy if you could throw a cent or two into my cogs.

To withstand the new Marines of any kind, especially when going second, I came up with only two solutions so far: to out-range or to hide. If hiding, then it's either a LoS break, or a DS. We can't control the tables however, unfavorable one (especially on the short deployment scenarios) can become very punishing. However, DS is something we can control.

There are two main components to this list: as many S5+ decent AP dice as possible, and Lucius. And by Lucius I don't mean the DS only - but Solar Flare and the dogma as well. Yes, I think Lucius dogma might actually be handy in the new meta upon us. Mostly due to a freaking lot of -1 bolter fire that we can see on the tables. While HBolters or HFlamers will be -2 in Deva Doctrine, I do shiver at the thought of Hurricane Bolter with -1AP barrage, with the Bolter Discipline, and Tactical Doctrine or AP improving stratagems.

9 Kataphrons in a single unit and 5 Dakkabots are exactly 1k points - meaning that's exactly the force possible to drop from DS in a 2k game. Both can be modified with a to hit chance - with the Dr. D, Noospheric or Elimination. Optimally, with all of them at once, but Dr. D. babysitting 3x Belleros is not a bad idea either (especially against the IH Fliers).


Battalion Stygies:

Manipulus (Necromechanic)

Enginseer

3x Tesco Rangers

3x Belleros

Battalion Lucius (or mixed):

Servitor Maniple

Dominus (Solar Flare)

Dedalousouwhateversous

6 Grav/Phosphor + 3 Plasma/Phosphor Kataphrons

2x Tesco Rangers (if mixed - Graia)

5x Dakkabots

1768pts (-5 for ETC, Transonic Manipulus cost is FAQ to 85)

10 CPs for the duration of the game (-2 DS, -1 Maniple). 242 (or 247 in ETC) points left for anti-chargers, switching Stygies troops to Breachers, adding Duneriders and more Troops, or whatever you like.

Maybe instead of ranking units, a more productive or helpful method would be to rank certain strategies/synergies or methods.

For example:

WoM Dakkabots w/ Cawl: Strong against X, weak against Y. Works well with Z.

Ryzaphron Destroyers w/ Servitor Recycling

Etc.

Edit: it also allows for subjectivity. Assessments wil vary, and more data points are better.

Admech are very much a strategy ranking if you wanna rank things.
Orks have a pretty standard ranking system for their units that only really has 2 units that shift around depending on the kulture (Lootas must be Bad Moonz and Shokk Jump Dragsta excells most at Deathskulls)
But Admech are mostly about synergies and stratagem shenanigans rather than individual unit power. Changing what auras are around them or what stratagems they have access to is MASSIVE for Admech.

@dadamowsky
My friend and I have both tried the Lucius Elimination Volley bomb. It's strong because you can drop 900-1000 points and erase a good chunk of their list. It's risky because it's almost impossible to form a good defensive screen to prevent being assaulted or deep struck yourself. You also cannot Strafing Fire Run.

But that was before Daedalosus. Maybe with him, we can make up for that -1 penalty to Dakkabot guns after deep-striking.

Transonic Manipulus cost is FAQ to 85

Really? where can i find this =) i play him always with flamer, but i thougt he is 90 points

 Hesselhof wrote:

Transonic Manipulus cost is FAQ to 85

Really? where can i find this =) i play him always with flamer, but i thougt he is 90 points

Math it out on his datasheet. He is 90 pts with his stock weapon, which costs 5 pts. The Transonic cost 0 pts. so 85. But ask your local TO first. Some will go for the 90 pts ruling, some for 85.

Ahh you mean this ok^^

 Hesselhof wrote:
Ahh you mean this ok^^

ETC FAQ set him on 85


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Suzuteo wrote:
@dadamowsky
My friend and I have both tried the Lucius Elimination Volley bomb. It's strong because you can drop 900-1000 points and erase a good chunk of their list. It's risky because it's almost impossible to form a good defensive screen to prevent being assaulted or deep struck yourself. You also cannot Strafing Fire Run.

But that was before Daedalosus. Maybe with him, we can make up for that -1 penalty to Dakkabot guns after deep-striking.

Im assuming to start from the table vs assault armies, and DS vs gunlines. Not much has left to screen though, but 240 pts being free might add some screen or counter charging ability. Or Breachers for versatility.

Yeah. I mean, the concept is not bad. I posted a list a few pages back about bringing a Bastion for much the same purpose. But giving up 2 CP and trading Mars for Lucius is also not bad given the prevalance of AP-1 shooting now.

Maybe I will try this:

Phosphor Blasters have surprisingly good math against a variety of targets now that Destroyers can get BS2 against a Daeda-marked target.

 Suzuteo wrote:
Yeah. I mean, the concept is not bad. I posted a list a few pages back about bringing a Bastion for much the same purpose. But giving up 2 CP and trading Mars for Lucius is also not bad given the prevalance of AP-1 shooting now.

Maybe I will try this:

Spoiler:

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 777

HQ - 120
1x Tech-Priest Dominus
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 120
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Transport - 219
1x Skorpius Dunerider
1x Skorpius Dunerider
1x Skorpius Dunerider

Heavy Support - 333
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 185

HQ - 80
1x Daedalosus
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Lucius Patrol Detachment - 1024
Servitor Maniple (-1 CP)

HQ - 90
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Relic: The Solar Flare

Troop - 384
8x Kataphron Destroyer - 8x Plasma Culverin, 8x Phosphor Blaster

Heavy Support - 550
5x Kastelan Robot - 15x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Total: 1986 points
12 CP

Phosphor Blasters have surprisingly good math against a variety of targets now that Destroyers can get BS2 against a Daeda-marked target.

I was surprised as well, but even Kataphron Phosphors look really good in the ignoring cover S5 -1 and long-ish range. I loved my flamers, due to a lot of assault hordes in my meta, but the game has changed...

The second draft loses a few Destroyers for a 6th Dakkabot. Rest of the list is filled with Breachers and a few more Stygies Rangers to first layer screening, or securing deployment's flanks. 4 Dragoons would also fit in place of Breachers (but Breachers might be the screen I really need here). I'm putting Breachers in Lucius because it's the detachment that already is being upgraded to a Maniple - and Breachers can find 5++ fairly useful (vs knights, BAs and all the other high AP). Besides they can capitilise on Noospheric.

Battalion Stygies:
TPE
TPM (Transonic, Necromechanic)
5x5 Rangers
3x Belleros

Battalion Lucius:
Servitor Maniple
Dr. D.
TPD (Solar Flare)
4x Breachers
5x Breachers
6x Destroyers Grav/Phosphor
6x Dakkabots

2004 pts (thus 1999 in ETC). 10 CPs. 16 KPs

Saw this on the FB group, Adam.

Lucius could work well in this meta. the key with anything DS is obviously board control which surprisingly may be possible now.

You could potentially make battalion 2 stygies and scout move the breachers forwards and use the 12" movement on the belleros tanks to create space turn 1 with lucius rangers / enginseer denying rear board entry. They would better weather T1 too potentially.

Lucious bomb drops down T2 or on board T1 depending on vs enemy alpha strike.

Alternatively you run the whole thing pure Lucius (which is fine) and manipulus boost the stygies forward for a T1 Advance for board control and advance HQ behind. The tanks dont really need it.

Battalion 1

1x Dominus (Flare)
1x Manipulus (WL)

9x Plasmaphrons
5x Ranger
5x Ranger

5x Dakka bots

Battalion 2

1x Daedalosus
1x Enginseer

4x Breacher
4x Breacher
4x Breacher

1x Belleros Skorpius
1x Belleros Skorpius
1x Belleros Skorpius

13CP 2000pt.

IronVaught wrote:
Saw this on the FB group, Adam.

Lucius could work well in this meta. the key with anything DS is obviously board control which surprisingly may be possible now.

You could potentially make battalion 2 stygies and scout move the breachers forwards and use the 12" movement on the belleros tanks to create space turn 1 with lucius rangers / enginseer denying rear board entry. They would better weather T1 too potentially.

Lucious bomb drops down T2 or on board T1 depending on vs enemy alpha strike.

Alternatively you run the whole thing pure Lucius (which is fine) and manipulus boost the stygies forward for a T1 Advance for board control and advance HQ behind. The tanks dont really need it.

Battalion 1

1x Dominus (Flare)
1x Manipulus (WL)

9x Plasmaphrons
5x Ranger
5x Ranger

5x Dakka bots

Battalion 2

1x Daedalosus
1x Enginseer

4x Breacher
4x Breacher
4x Breacher

1x Belleros Skorpius
1x Belleros Skorpius
1x Belleros Skorpius

13CP 2000pt.

hmmm I feel like the thread is moving into weird places. its about 2 days ago where people were against a deepstriking unit of infiltrators because they are not able to deliver their load against several armies (Guard, Space Marines, etc..) and now we are back to Lucius armies...hmmm.
I am not a fan of that list to be honest. I dont like dropping plasmaphrons. They are too swingey and expensive and plain dead against any marine build in any doctrine. same goes for breachers. they had their place a couple of months ago but the get hurt bad by marines. But I already said so a couple of pages back. 12 Breachers wont do much in melee without rerolls. There is basically no counter charge unit.
I will also put a big BUT here. I am just not a fan of "i hope they kill everything they need to, otherwise its game over" lists. I dont think AdMech needs to be that army, since we have several options to play with. We are not Tau.

Iago40k wrote:


hmmm I feel like the thread is moving into weird places. its about 2 days ago where people were against a deepstriking unit of infiltrators because they are not able to deliver their load against several armies (Guard, Space Marines, etc..) and now we are back to Lucius armies...hmmm.
I am not a fan of that list to be honest. I dont like dropping plasmaphrons. They are too swingey and expensive and plain dead against any marine build in any doctrine. same goes for breachers. they had their place a couple of months ago but the get hurt bad by marines. But I already said so a couple of pages back. 12 Breachers wont do much in melee without rerolls. There is basically no counter charge unit.
I will also put a big BUT here. I am just not a fan of "i hope they kill everything they need to, otherwise its game over" lists. I dont think AdMech needs to be that army, since we have several options to play with. We are not Tau.

you treat kataphrons like chaos treats obliterators. you dont deepstrike them 9" away to assault, you deepstrike them 36" away to protect them from alpha strikes and hopefully get to turn the tide on turn 2.

As above. The mindset needs to shift away from whether or not SM can kill a unit. Everything dies no exception.

The whole point of this recent discussion is to prevent this inevitable fate by using DS defensively.

Marines die easy too!

Yeah deepstrike isnt solely to get as close as absolutely possible.
Its also a protective measure and to get them in a position they probably wouldnt reach normally, such as on top of that tall building in the midfield that would probably take them 3 turns to hoof (tread?) it to.
I outflank my deffkoptas as orks all the time mostly just so theyre safe from alphas and they can guarantee a shot on what i want them to hit. Im usually nowhere near my target except the 24" range limit of course. (being T5 you'd be surprised how many people want to shoot them first, since a lot of non-heavy weapons can reliably hurt them anyway)

There is quite substantial difference between Infiltrators and Dakkabots or Kataphrons - range. Infiltrators have S3 0 1 profile and have to be dropped 12" away to capitilise on killing chaff (or deal MWs to tougher targets). Gravs/Kastelans can be dropped 30/36" away with substantially better weapons to kill much tougher targets (including vehs). These two DS tactics are not really comparable IMO.

Especially that the Dakkabots/Kataphrons list might just as well start from the table in other Forgeworld - DS is more a survivability against alpha strike, than a "deep strike" itself. Sure, it gives up turn 1 shooting. But as SM will most likely bring all Fly and Infantry keywords, they can easily hide behind terrain, without really limiting their mobility. Unlike vehicles Dakkabots.

As for counter-charge, I am meditating Fulgurites instead of Breachers. Marines can forward deploy and lock any army in their starting zones (Stygies is of no help, as Infiltration movement can't end closer than 9" to any enemy model; it's happening after deployments anyway). But if Marine is foolish enough to give Fulgurites 3++ after an easy charge for the rest the game, that would actually be a win. What I don't like though in EPs are other matchups, where Breachers are actually more useful.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

you treat kataphrons like chaos treats obliterators. you dont deepstrike them 9" away to assault, you deepstrike them 36" away to protect them from alpha strikes and hopefully get to turn the tide on turn 2.

Ehrm yes.that's not really news but thanks I guess.

You guys talk about flier spam lists yet want to drop units with these huge bases? And dakkabots? Starting them on the table.... Don't know about that though.
Not to mention Los issues.

The DS comparison is viable though. Infis drop in after you had to turns to clear a drop area. Putting dakkastelans and plasmaphrons into drop leaves you with nothing to clear an area and subpar drop zones.

Okay good, nuff said. Let's just wait till the first results are rolling in.

Iago40k wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

you treat kataphrons like chaos treats obliterators. you dont deepstrike them 9" away to assault, you deepstrike them 36" away to protect them from alpha strikes and hopefully get to turn the tide on turn 2.

Ehrm yes.that's not really news but thanks I guess.

You guys talk about flier spam lists yet want to drop units with these huge bases? And dakkabots?
Not to mention Los issues.

The DS comparison is comparable. Infis drop in after you had to turns to clear a drop area. Putting dakkastelans and plasmaphrons into drop leaves you with nothing to clear an area and subpar drop zones.

Okay good, nuff said. Let's just wait till the first results are rolling in.

This DS list is supposed to drop in my lines where I am able to secure myself enough place to drop those bases, not deep at the table; and provide viable shooting afterwards. That's precisely what Infiltrators are not supposed (or even able) to do, at least taken in Mars for MW. Besides... I don't have to use DS each and every time, or at lest not on everything each and every time. If there were 6+ Fliers and were able to screen out the area, I can opt out for a part, or all, of the DS components and use terrain whenever possible. In short - it's about options that come with increased range, better survivability etc.... in short - not being short range glass cannons. Which is why I don't consider these DSes even close to be compared.

Unprecedented threats call for unprecedented responses. Just like how we went from Cawlstar to Breacher spam to Crawlers and Grators, we need to figure out some way to handle this crazy SM meta. We have to figure out some way to protect ourselves from a strong shooting threat so we can clear them the following turn.

My reservation with running Dragoons in a list with this Lucius concept is that one primary reason for running them is to act as a Distraction Carnifex. But that is not really necessary if you are hiding your units in reserves. So they go from dying for a purpose to dying for no purpose. I think being very conservative on turn one and turtling with transports is preferable. Then bring the hammer down and sprint for objectives.

The problem with Infiltrators and Corpuscarii is that they deep strike into the 12" range of Auspex Scan. Dakkabots and Destroyers don't struggle with that. The base size is also not too big a problem, as you can DS them into your own deployment anyway.

Also, whether or not SM can kill Breachers is extremely important, since the reason why we took them was because it was hard for armies to kill them. If the most common and competitive armies in the meta can easily kill them, there is not a strong argument for running them anymore. Breachers were strong when people weren't stacking S5-6 weapons on everything to kill T4-5 targets. Now they are.

EDIT: So a lot of these concept lists run Stygies for the -1 to hit for the deployed detachments. But what about Graia? They can ignore death and failed morale on a 6, abhor Psychic powers, and the WLT lets them fight in CC. You can even give the Dominus the +1 CP Pimp Hat if you don't wanna run the Solar Flare; it means you will always be dropping into your deployment though.

@suzuteo Stygies is still worth it since it is okay against SM and excells against any other army. Graia works out great for mass skitarii, yet we always have a ton of vehicles with us that are just better with stygies.
As you stated Suzu, Kataphrons, regardless of Breachers or Destroyers, are just plain dead if any decent SM gunline takes aim at them. Heavy Bolter with -2 AP, Thunderfire cannons etc. etc. just widdle them down before mass bolterfire with all the rerolls come in.


@dadamowsky i am aware that you can drop (and probably will drop) in your own deployment zone. Against SM, I am just not sold that this is going to happen (Invictus war suits can even deny a drop into your zone in 4 out of 6 deployment maps). Starting them on the field on the other hand is dangerous since they will get evaporated. Usually we play a gunline fight against SM. The one that shoots better will win. Yet even if Plasdestroyers will get their dmg output, its still rather easy for SM to get back into the game since destroyers are what? right, easy to kill. And they fail in a lot of other match ups as well.
But I dont wanna be the guy thats just screaming that kataphrons are bad. Maybe they work out great. Looking forward to hear some tournament experiences in the future

My next major list is all ready to go so maybe i just want to hype myself up. Could be. Will tell you in the middle of november

I had a test Graia list, based on Emotionless Clarity gimmick, with loads of Skitarii and Kastelans going into combat deliberately. Can't hold vs Marines snipers (even Cawl folds to Eliminators), unfortunately. Graia itself was a fun, although swingy, dogma. In one match it saved me a lot of models, including two Dakkabots. In the other... Well, Skitarii were refusing to yield by the sheer number of them (had about 60), but it haven't made a real difference. Deny is always good, but I'm not going to build around it - a single deny on 4+ won't save me from the shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@lago Invictors are the problem, but also a reason why I want to bring 5 Skitarii squads. Layers of overlapping screening should help me hold the ground until I can destroy them. Either way, I'll report progress on the list

Good points.

I think triple Battalion might actually be the way to go for this sort of thing:

I wonder if all of these sacrifices are worthwhile though. No Mars or Ryza makes these units a lot less killy.

My next major list is all ready to go so maybe i just want to hype myself up. Could be. Will tell you in the middle of november

Can you show this list?