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Consuls are exactly only the resin models they sell. Mostly no options.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Consuls are exactly only the resin models they sell. Mostly no options.

Lmao, I'm sorry, what? The 'historical' game based around heavy customization is moving to total NMNR, even losing the character customization? What an incredible mis-step.

Can't wait to see all the content creators absolutely glazing the new edition and offering no criticism simply because daddy GW sent them free stuff.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Can't wait to see all the content creators absolutely glazing the new edition and offering no criticism simply because daddy GW sent them free stuff.

It seems like a few of the bigger creators that didn't have HH content are considering leaning into it. These guys will probably love the new edition, since they're starting from scratch and have nothing to compare it to. I think some of them didn't play 40K pre-8th edition, so there's a chance they've never even played an actual wargame, and HH will blow their minds. I can envision a lot of newer era 40K players dipping their toes into HH and having a version of that experience, and the edition seeming very popular in the end (regardless of however its grognards end up feeling).

Just seen a post elsewhere saying that Consuls are now all locked into whatever the resin model has.
I.E. Siege Breakers all have Thunder Hammers and Moritats all have Jump Packs.

God help us.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Can't wait to see all the content creators absolutely glazing the new edition and offering no criticism simply because daddy GW sent them free stuff.

That is how one keeps themselves employed yes.

But as free agents we're allowed to be more honest. And honestly the loss of flavour in unit entries freaken HUUUUURTs. It is a big part of why I got into 2nd edition out of 40k to begin with. Even if the turn to turn gameplay feels okay I'm going to be missing when I could build a character project around some weird loadout. The idea of a guy and his retinue of weirdo hangerons is half the fun of wargames to my mind.

If i had to guess GW saw how quickly the 3d printing market exploded with 2nd edition and thought, nope, gonna try to curb that.

 Gert wrote:
Just seen a post elsewhere saying that Consuls are now all locked into whatever the resin model has.
I.E. Siege Breakers all have Thunder Hammers and Moritats all have Jump Packs.

God help us.

The Warsmith also went from a Praetor upgrade with all those options to only exactly what the resin model has.

It’s a bit unfair to lump all Heresy content creators together like that. Not all of them are in GW’s pocket. Pardo of SN (i.e. the one who has evidently pissed off a rather juvenile leaker) has expressed concerns about what 3rd Edition might contain since the (accurate) rumours first surfaced. Many of these people are genuinely passionate about Heresy, and more inclined to see the upside. And if carping and sneering is the kind of content you want, there is always that guy at Outer Circle…

That said, while the rules changes can be absorbed and may even prove to be positive, it will be hard for anyone who is being honest to justify the removal of so many options from units. GW seem to be presenting it as not ‘forcing’ players to convert in order to field units, but that’s BS. This decision was clearly financially motivated, and will alienate a significant proportion of the existing Heresy player base. I think of all those players with beautifully converted and painted armies who will now have to pull weapons off their models or shelve them entirely. A lot of them are so prolific that they’ll just crank out a new army, but not everyone has the time and energy for that.

 Gert wrote:
Just seen a post elsewhere saying that Consuls are now all locked into whatever the resin model has.
I.E. Siege Breakers all have Thunder Hammers and Moritats all have Jump Packs.

God help us.

Eww. Truly the deathblow for the game. What an absolutely fethed situation to find oneself in.

Oh for fething hell, customizing and freedom on your consuls was one the better parts of the game and now you can now only get them how they sell them?

And even weirder is that Tartaros terminators for some bizarre reason don't have access to power fists despite kit coming with them.

I was planning to go in for the books and 1 copy of saturnine but i think ill just skip it all.

 Snord wrote:
It’s a bit unfair to lump all Heresy content creators together like that. Not all of them are in GW’s pocket. Pardo of SN (i.e. the one who has evidently pissed off a rather juvenile leaker) has expressed concerns about what 3rd Edition might contain since the (accurate) rumours first surfaced. Many of these people are genuinely passionate about Heresy, and more inclined to see the upside. And if carping and sneering is the kind of content you want, there is always that guy at Outer Circle…

That said, while the rules changes can be absorbed and may even prove to be positive, it will be hard for anyone who is being honest to justify the removal of so many options from units. GW seem to be presenting it as not ‘forcing’ players to convert in order to field units, but that’s BS. This decision was clearly financially motivated, and will alienate a significant proportion of the existing Heresy player base. I think of all those players with beautifully converted and painted armies who will now have to pull weapons off their models or shelve them entirely. A lot of them are so prolific that they’ll just crank out a new army, but not everyone has the time and energy for that.

That's crazy because I consider the Outer Circle to be extremely passionate about Heresy. I feel he is dead on in most of his discussions when calling out the terrible decisions GW makes regarding Heresy and has been for the past few years. He also calls out the constant positivity hype train that surrounds these games and the mental gymnastics people do in order to convince themselves they have it good when the company is clearly taking a dump on them repeatedly. Essentially each video breaks down to "you should hold this company to a higher standard as a consumer."

At the same time I think it would be completely false to assume SN is not passionate about Heresy as well. They have fully dedicated themselves to the system. There are many that simply act as hype men after they receive their goodies and never talk about the system again.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Consuls are exactly only the resin models they sell. Mostly no options.

Lmao, I'm sorry, what? The 'historical' game based around heavy customization is moving to total NMNR, even losing the character customization? What an incredible mis-step.

Praevians don't even have melee weapons now. Just a pistol.

Chaplains have no special rules at all, they're just Centurions with an extra couple of points in their "mental" stats. And no options.

Gorgon Terminators have no combi-bolters. Tartaros Terminator squads can't take powerfists or chainfists anymore, just default power weapons or swap it for one lighting claw. A third of the Consuls are just gone, and whether your Legion gets a unique unit for your special Consul-esque HQ or just a Prime Benefit that tacks a couple of small benefits onto a generic one is a complete tossup. Multiple Legion specialist units lost all their options, but they added options that aren't in the kits to Lerneans and Justaerin.

It's not even NMNR, it just seems like a ruleset written by a schizophrenic. It's impossible to tell what the mentality behind any given decision is, or if it even was a decision and these are just the worst proof-read GW books ever published and loads of this stuff is mistakes. Even putting aside any issues or bugbears one might have with the core rules(limiting missions to four turns to give you extra time for their godawful action figure slapfight challenge system, for example) and just looking at the Libers 3.0 is legitimately baffling, bonkers, ferret-riding-a-tricycle-tier mental.

The only good news so far is new Tartaros model kit incoming. The monkey’s paw bit of it is no power fists, though.

 Rihgu wrote:
The only good news so far is new Tartaros model kit incoming. The monkey’s paw bit of it is no power fists, though.

Where's that coming from? Only place I saw mention of nuTartaros was pure speculation/copium based on someone's disbelief that GW could have so royally hooped it without any reason so they must be doing a new kit right? Right? Right.....

There was a teaser of what looked like a cataphracatii arm holding a volkite charger, so I think people have inferred Tarts coming too.

Oof. Hearing that HH is losing all of their wargear options hurts badly. I already hated that in 40K, but assumed HH and TOW were safe from it. This sets a horrifying precedent.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I was planning to go in for the books and 1 copy of saturnine but i think ill just skip it all.

Yeah, I think i feel the same. Might pick up some mkii and maybe the dread from ebay but I'm skipping this shitshow of a game.

Just gonna model/paint and utilize my 8k printer in the future.

Shame, I was really looking forward to the new "edition"(COMPLETLY REVISED tm). I'm cool offa Dat gak

 Snord wrote:
It’s a bit unfair to lump all Heresy content creators together like that. Not all of them are in GW’s pocket. Pardo of SN (i.e. the one who has evidently pissed off a rather juvenile leaker) has expressed concerns about what 3rd Edition might contain since the (accurate) rumours first surfaced.

If he did what the guy is ostensibly mad at him for, and tried to narc him out to GW, the anger is not juvenile. It's deeply pathetic to bodyblock for a corporation and try to get another human targeted for reprisal, even if you disagree with them.

 Altruizine wrote:

If he did what the guy is ostensibly mad at him for, and tried to narc him out to GW, the anger is not juvenile. It's deeply pathetic to bodyblock for a corporation and try to get another human targeted for reprisal, even if you disagree with them.

Considering that as far as I've seen it was only the leaker making those claims about Pardo with no evidence to back them up and the leaker has just been writing racist, transphobic, and antisemitic comments on the latest leaks he released, I wouldn't be too quick to be defending him in any way.

Consuls have been completely gutted, yea. It's the beginning of 40k datasheetfication. Each of the surviving Consuls is its own unit entry with exactly the gear on the model (possibly two options if they sell a loyalist and a traitor sculpt) and the rest were squatted. Obviously none of them can be given any form of Terminator armour, bike or jump pack.

Besides invalidating loads of lovingly crafted Your Dudes conversions, it is also beyond schizophrenic to make a herohammer edition and force additional characters through list building rules, only to at the same time squat the majority of possible character builds.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Consuls have been completely gutted, yea. It's the beginning of 40k datasheetfication. Each of the surviving Consuls is its own unit entry with exactly the gear on the model (possibly two options if they sell a loyalist and a traitor sculpt) and the rest were squatted. Obviously none of them can be given any form of Terminator armour, bike or jump pack.

Besides invalidating loads of lovingly crafted Your Dudes conversions, it is also beyond schizophrenic to make a herohammer edition and force additional characters through list building rules, only to at the same time squat the majority of possible character builds.

It also has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that consuls make for Leutnant equivalent (cheap to make /design with probably the biggest margin) and the force org now forces you into more of them so that you may buy more...

na that is just a tinfoilhatbrigade opinion.

Pardo was also critical, before GW offered them free stuff Now they openly claim how great and tactical this game is, and how overall excited they are about the new edition.
Man, I just can't wait for them to publish l2p series. Should be hilarious, given that even after so many games, they would still get quite a few rules wrong or just keep checking them.

Well, if they joined in "recently", being positive is part of the NDA to get review materials in the first place
Only those who joined in before that can get stuff early and be honest.

So most of those who release reviews on release, be it models or rules, cannot point out any downside or say something bad about the product or they break contract.

yet this doesn't justify to go after leakers or expose those who don't need to follow a contract, specially not if the only reason being exposed as being paid for positive reviews

I don't know the whole story about exposing stuff, my comment was about creators/influencers/whatever glazing the new edition. Because at first Pardo and SN were more negative and had almost instan 180 degree turn

GrimmT wrote:

 tauist wrote:


Feels bad seeing HH fans getting what 10th ed 40K gave me

This rhetoric is so tiring. If you want to doompost, go on reddit.

Come back when you've actually played the version of the game you're preemptively criticizing.

So sorry you had to read something on the internet that upset you. /s

I'm not even critisizing the game yet, I am just lamenting the loss of options invalidating HH armies people lovingly built up and converted over the years. Are you some sort of sociopath who gets upset seeing other people sympathising with others' misfortunes?

If you had followed along this thread like I have, you'd already know I am not thinking about buying into this game. Every day, I get more and more convinced that 1st editions of any GW game ever made is the one to stick with, just use the new models, best of both worlds - fantastic, anatomically correct looking models, and rules which while never perfect, at least were a labout of love.

I am still intrigued to see how HH 3.0 rolls out. There are a lot of new changes to this game which might end up interesting.

There are still grownups in this world who see both the good and the bad in all things. Its not "best ever!!!!111" nor "worst flocking gak ever made", its something between these two, and most of all, entirely subjective

Lastly, doomposting? On Reddit? Clearly not the same Reddit I'm lurking at.. all I see on there is this toxic positivity where all deep insights of anything get ignored and people endlessly upvote the laziest, most treaded rhetorics. Why bother to post anything on there? You cannot have a normal discussion on such a platform..

I’ll see what becomes of Horus Heresy, when the dust settles a bit, but options limitation quickly threw cold water on me.

Just fething why would GW do that? Add 4 LD stats, but reduce the number of builds? Bleh!
Old World is customisation galore, so it’s not like the “no mini- no rules” policy is a group punishment for all the games GW produces. Old World is the only thing that I’m dishing out any money for to GW.
So why taint an already niche game with this hideous new40k list building style? We saw some units discontinued with the release of 2.0, but it was mostly special characters, which is not as horrible as whole unit layouts in my opinion.

Maybe I should’ve kept my 2.0 rule book.
Whatever, I’ll just do the modelling bit, not like I get to play HH anyway. And a 3 year book rotation can feth off, if I wanted subscription type games, I’d play some of that juicy AAA online video game slop

How important is it that aesthetic choices have specific rules representation at this point?

HH is often touted as being "for the hobbyists to customise their guys", so does the visual item they're holding necessitate bespoke rules?

If so then where does that leave being a hobbyist by that definition. Because it feels game design is cramping people's creativity a little as they need positive affirmation from GW that they stuck the relevant bit to the mini.

Some counterpoints to this discussion, yet again from B&C forums:

"Nearly all the Traitor Legions are leaked at this point.

And its safe to say nearly all the panic and issues were Loyalist specific.

Traitors kept most of their wargear options, gained in places, got more rules, more balanced prices and more fluff.

TSons have 4 pages for each cult plus a Khenetai Jedi Page.

WE have better Caedere weapons and two rites of war (base and heretic).

Those with limited wargear or lost something gained something else, including a large uptick in combi-weapons.

Its not even op or unbalanced internally to my eye, just mass improvements.

I mostly play Traitor so I am laughing, but this is weird.

Honestly, I cannot speak to what management was thinking greenlighting the Loyalist book."

So perhaps not all doom and gloom, hmm?

Sometimes you have to wonder if there are multiple teams, but not getting the same memos.