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Sivious wrote:
I have 1500 pt tournament at Saturday and after toying around with lists I ended up with this.

Spoiler:

HQ
Big Mek
Ammo Runt, Da Finkin' Kap, Shokk Attack Gun

Big Mek
Ammo Runt, Shokk Attack Gun

Elites
Tankbustas x7
2x Bomb Squig
Trukk [Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha]

Tankbustas x7
2x Bomb Squig
Trukk [Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha]

Troops
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]

24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]

24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]

24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]

Fast Attack
Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]

Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]

Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]

Heavy Support
2x Kustom Mega-kannon

2x Lobba

I think it's looks pretty solid, while still having elements I like. Straightforward like most of my stuff. Koptas outflank, Bustas kamikaze at Knights and other big vehicles, Boyz try to survive past 3rd turn and kill something, Meks roll dice with Big Gunz.

I haven't used TBustas before, so should I have more/less?

Hope you don't seen Tau or Eldar. I think Shoota Boyz are the right choice for this list because of no Warboss meaning you can't declare a WAAAGH!. One thing I would take a look at is splitting the Tankbustas into 3 Squads of 5 each in its own trukk. It means you would need 1 more Tankbusta, and 1 more Trukk, but I like squad of 5 better than 7, because a group of 7 aren't really harder to kill than a group of 5. Also a group of 5 is super fun against jinking things. "Do you want to Jink?"

I'm not a fan of a squad of 2 Lobbas. Seems like you need 3 to make them worth it. Also, Ammo runts. If you split the KMK's into 2 squads you can deploy one KMK with a SAG BM at 2 different spots on the table. Maybe you were planning to put one SAG with the Lobbas, but Lobbas don't shoot at the same thing as SAG's. A Kannon is a bit better, because if your SAG is vehicle hunting it can shoot the single, and if infantry hunting you can do the blast. If you are using a Mek Gun to keep your SAG alive adding a few extra grots can give you a bonus.

Hope that helps.

 Glitcha wrote:
The next Escalation league in my area is getting ready to start. I actually get to compete this time. So below is the list i'm thinking about running for 500 points.

Spoiler:

Zhadsnark (why not? )

5 biker boy Nob BP PK

10 ard boyz in a trukk Nob BP PK

Gun trukk with kannon and rokket launcher.

Basically just going to rush the other side of the table and start kickin' teeth in. Thoughts?

I like this up until the Gun Trukk. Have you considered Deff Koptas or War Buggies instead? I love solo Deff Koptas with Rokkits.

Lobbas because of the Barrage rule become significantly better with each additional lobba. They would be much better in a squad of 4 instead of splitting it up.

Remember, Barrage does not fire the way blasts do. You fire the first shot normally, but whereever it lands dictates the rest. It can be a two-edged sword because if you wiff the first shot entirely, you wiffed them all, but on the flipside if you hit it you hit them ALL. Subsequent shots only use the scatter die, either flipping the blast in that direction (then right back to original position) or whereever you want long as it touches the original with a bullseye, even directly on top of it.

Ive devastated Marine units with this thing because i landed a bullseye on 3 models, and only one direction was a complete wiff so every single blast did 2-3 damage. Racks up REALLY fast with numbers.

I find AV13/14 not a problem with Tankbustas. Sure Rokkit Launchas could be better, but they do have Melta Bombs with Tankhunters. I caused 6 HP to an AV15 building with a unit of 7 Tankbustas in CC alone. Warboss w/ Da Lucky Stikk/Attack Squig and PK also does work, 50% chance to glance AV14/pen AV13.

To be honest I'm just waiting for my Tau friend to say 'Hey the Railgun on Broadsides are Destroyer weapons!' Orks be like, you killed one of the Boyz. Good shot sir!

I keep forgetting I have tank hunter!
DAMN! would have been very useful last game :(
Bomb squigs I like, you can take 3 in any squad size, so for 15 points - the cost of 1 TB, you can get 3 shots worth in a single salvo. Yeh may not always do something, but worth the chance with a larger guarantee on wrecking a vehicle in 1 turn.

Bomb squigs should have tank hunter - they are a weapon fired by the unit, even if you consider them as separate models within the unit; tank hunter is conferred.

Bomb Squigs do have Tank Hunters, since they are a shooting attack. I was just wondering whether to take them in a TAC list, given that there would be situations where they would do nothing (ie Skimmer armies).

Unless the *guaranteed* S8 hits are good enough to take anyway.

Ah I see, tbh, I often think for 15 points they are worth it. Your right, some games they do nothing whatsoever, but that's generally the rule in a TAC list anyway. I like them, it feels nice on the turn where you roll poorly and miss with all those 5+ rokkits and you throw the squigs at it too.

Solar Shock wrote:
Ah I see, tbh, I often think for 15 points they are worth it. Your right, some games they do nothing whatsoever, but that's generally the rule in a TAC list anyway. I like them, it feels nice on the turn where you roll poorly and miss with all those 5+ rokkits and you throw the squigs at it too.

Squigs are a must for those with tankhammers. Another question is why would you pay so much for a tankhammer. Guess, it depends on the way you run them. Sometimes, acouple extra s8 ap3 attacks are worth 15 pts. For example, if you're running them with a megacharacter as a mini-deathstar.

ooh never thought about tank hammers in a mini-star, might have to have a ponder on that.

As for something slightly off topic; would you guys take a look at this list - Mealstrom games most likely, campaign, no special chars and no relics. My WL Big mek is also fixed.
I want to bring the crons, as I have many and have never really played them

------------------------ 1500 Pts -----------------------------------------

Harvest
Spyder - beamer
6 scarab bases
3 wraiths - coils

Decurion
Overlord - sythe, phase shifter
10 warriors
10 warriors
3 tomb blades - vanes, scopes
5 immortals - heavy gauss

CAD
BMek - bike, 3Ammo, BP, Killsaw, Gfinda
painboy - bike, orderly

10 bikes - nob, BP, Bchoppa,

10 grots
10 grots

5 lobbas - runts and extra crew
2 KMK's - runts and crew

--------------------------------------------------------------------

So overall i'm thinking of putting Crons central - going for a mid table dominance while Bikes on one flank, wraiths the other, wraiths go for tying up large units and the like, bikes just pump out the dakka and tank hunt where needed. Artillery just shells the living crap out of things!

Thoughts? I have done orky conversions for all! you should see my wraiths and spyder, they are rather hilarious!

I'd not shy away from taking a pk nob biker.

You could probably save some points on the Lobbas by shaving off all but one Ammo Runt. Barrage works so that the closest gun shoots first (of which you only have one ammo runt for).

My point in reminding him bomb squiggs have tank hunters is because even going against av 13 each squig has an 84% hit chance and 33% with a reroll is about 50% of the time he should have glanced or pen'ed. So what sounded like a complaint that they didn't work because only 1 hit, means his dice rolled poorly, but could make others or himself discouraged in their use.

Beyond that, if he was firing at av14, it better have been the only vehicle on the table against a swarm army with tshirt saves. Otherwise there were better targets to shoot at in the only turn a small unit of Tankbustas shoots, turn 1. After that you're in charge range, at which point the squiggs are useless as you charge high armor targets.

tag8833 wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:
The next Escalation league in my area is getting ready to start. I actually get to compete this time. So below is the list i'm thinking about running for 500 points.

Spoiler:

Zhadsnark (why not? )

5 biker boy Nob BP PK

10 ard boyz in a trukk Nob BP PK

Gun trukk with kannon and rokket launcher.

Basically just going to rush the other side of the table and start kickin' teeth in. Thoughts?

I like this up until the Gun Trukk. Have you considered Deff Koptas or War Buggies instead? I love solo Deff Koptas with Rokkits.

I know the Gun trukk is a little odd, but for I have planned for the list I decided to put it in now. Its for an escalation league where once you up it in your list, it has to be in your list for the rest of the league. I like it for its tactical flexability. move 12" fire the main kannon. Either single shot anti-armor or blast marker for anti-personal. I do plan to add a full unit of deff koptas to the list. This is just my first week list.

koooaei wrote:I'd not shy away from taking a pk nob biker.

See I thought this; could you add some more reasons? My thoughts were any challenge situations I want a Nob to throw at it, but generally he is only there if I can't handle the challenge with the Big Mek (also I gain an increased chance of levelling up my WL by doing certain things; challenges being one of them - So anything the BM can handle I will be throwing him at). I thought against a Beatstick a BC means I might actually strike first or I might actually make use of it instead of dying before I swing.

Frozocrone wrote:You could probably save some points on the Lobbas by shaving off all but one Ammo Runt. Barrage works so that the closest gun shoots first (of which you only have one ammo runt for).

Is that how barrage works? I was pretty sure you can specify which model is shooting first? Hence 5 ammo runts means that every turn you can have a re-roll on the first shot?

 Billagio wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, one guess how I finally killed that squad of, which was a formation of some sort with 2 HQ Psykers attached on Eldar Jetbikes: more dakka. A fresh unit of 14 regular BikerBoyz rolled on and even with 2+ I was able to kill 3 Warlocks. Then he assaulted me, killed 2 more to over watch, then we ground it out over 3 turns of assault. Thankfully the Mob rule actually kept me in the battle since, of course, he had hit me with terrify to reduce my Ld to 6!!

Awesome game I was able to win at bottom of turn 5 due to wiping him. He said at the end: "your lucky I didn't get the power that lets me reroll failed saves."

FML Eldar are ridiculous!!

So my game against Harlie Elves's last night didn't quite go aswell as yours did. Where the mob rule seemed to save you the mob simply destroyed me. Started out I was steam rolling him, turn 1 I removed a whole 10 man troupe; I seized and then put a serious amount of firepower into it, rolling plenty of 6's for my lootas and gitz in my Big T squadrons.

However after turn 1 it was down hill. Maelstrom cards didn't go my way; I placed 4 objectives in a diamond pattern, had that side of the board and didn't draw a single objective card till turn 4. But generally it was my leadership that really failed me. Failed almost all ldrship rolls, which with the DJ, so -2 to LD resulted in my units running which ever way he wanted (typically towards a harle squad ready to assault), Every BP roll resulted in me either doing more wounds to my own units (Flash gitz take 1 casualty from DJ and then kill 2 of themselves - 6+ gitz).

Not to mention my WL BM on bike with bike squad and painboy failing a LD check and then failing BP roll, running, getting charged and getting wiped simply because they failed another check. It was just rediculous, he didn't even need any LD modifying powers and I failed almost everything. I know not all games will go that way but when the mob rule simply starts killing more models than the enemy its so depressing.

Taking an 1850 ork army only to spend most of the game tidying away units is sad times!

Ld has always been the bane of da Orks! At least since 3rd edition. That's what made the previous Mob Rule so awesome: Ld equals model count, 11+ is fearless. BP was a simple reroll. Considering 6th and 7th overall are a dumbed down, simplified version of the game, it's a head scratcher that they ADDED a new table, with modifiers.

I was also quite unlucky with my draws on Maelstrom cards. Cause a pinning test, to Eldar, whose basic troops are Ld 9!

I ran one unit of Max Lobbas (and one of max KMK's and a third full unit of Tractor Kannonz for testing purposes) and as in most games since forever, the Lobbas were my MVP's. 3+ Armor saves don't help too much when you have 17-21 wounds on a unit.

*Eldar are Ld 9*
*Checks DE Codex I have*
*Units are Ld 8*

Of course they are.

In Orker news, had a chance to try Tankbustas and MANz that Deep Striked (narrative mission in GW). MANZ did really well, Tankbustas would have won the game but I was required to roll to hit against a building as per the GW employee made me (forge the narrative and whatnot). BikerStar performed as it always does (no Zhadsnark, stayed away from FW for this event).

LOL on the DE Ld! Seriously though my Mek Gunz units are so large (Max extra grots every time) that to cause a Ld against T7 absorbs a lot of enemy firepower. Other wise I also stay away from FW headaches. Codex Orks only, not even supplements, and I'm having a blast every game.

BikerBoss with Bikers and PB on Bike
Two full units of Tankbustas
2 min sized Grot Mobs
Maxed out Heavy Slots with maximum size mobs of Mek Gunz, 2 of which have HQ generic Meks.

Extra points go to more bikes or whatnot.

How do you transport the bustas?

On foot. We usually play on tables with 25% terrain. Literally put terrain in 1/4 of the table until it fills, then space it out for the four quadrants. Grots may or may not walk in front as a meat shield. Usually bikes are in front for deployment. So I'm relying heavily on cover, as I have for the past decade. Playing against Tau sucks

But considering all the bikes and Mek Gunz, Tankbustas are usually ignored. Even with 15, usually only 5 hit. Then opponent usually has cover. So the opp. correctly ignores them until they get in assault range. They used to be Lootas until the latest codex dropped and Lootas (sadly) moved to Heavy. Mek Gunz are just too damn hot! So my Lootas became TB's.

My Lootas/TB's/Rokkit boyz are Gorka Morka era models with the slugga arm removed and an IG missile launcher added.

Assaulting AV13/14 with Tankbustas doesnt really count as being able to deal with them lol. Thats the Ork answer for them to begin with, and 9/10 of the time the only answer. Unless i had nothing else in the area to deal with an AV13/14 vehicle in the assault phase i'd much rather fire their rokkits at something else than fire and probably do nothing so i can assault and risk death by explosion lol.

Vine, that was my point exactly.

Solarshock, you fix the problem by taking a mega armored IC so you can shuffle who is closest and it gives you a T7 2+ armored wound shield.

So If I was going up against a SM TAC list, what would be the best way to get tankbustas where they need to go? Trukks? BWs? How do you guys kit them out (squad size?)

Against SM TAC? May as well take a unit or two of 12 in battle wagons with kill kannons. Gives you a ton of AP 3. Flashgitz are good against SM also since 50% of the time they are ap3. And kmks are good for ap2.

FratHammer wrote:
Against SM TAC? May as well take a unit or two of 12 in battle wagons with kill kannons. Gives you a ton of AP 3. Flashgitz are good against SM also since 50% of the time they are ap3. And kmks are good for ap2.

this, except id put busta's in trukks and boyz in KillKannon wagons. Spread the AP3 love around. If you put AP3 busta's in an AP3 wagon I can tell you what his first target is going to be! But that's my personal preference. But yeh what frat said, if you know its marines;
Busta's
KMK's
Killkannons

Solar Shock wrote:

FratHammer wrote:
Against SM TAC? May as well take a unit or two of 12 in battle wagons with kill kannons. Gives you a ton of AP 3. Flashgitz are good against SM also since 50% of the time they are ap3. And kmks are good for ap2.

this, except id put busta's in trukks and boyz in KillKannon wagons. Spread the AP3 love around. If you put AP3 busta's in an AP3 wagon I can tell you what his first target is going to be! But that's my personal preference. But yeh what frat said, if you know its marines;
Busta's
KMK's
Killkannons

I kind of agree. BW's are more durable, but three units of Tankbustas in Trukks might be just as effective as 2x12. Force an opponent to decide between units of equal threat. Then if one gets wrecked on the way across the board, the others can still do their thing.

Played the 1500pt Maelstorm tournament today. Small changes to list like adding single Traktor Kannon.

First match against other Ork-list! It was rare. Nob Biker deathstar. Managed to pick my boyz one mob a time, I was wiped-out at the end. Made mistakes, not much to say. First unit to fire, SAG-Mek rolled double 1's.

Second match against Khorne Daemonkin feat Tzeentch ally. Bloodhounds managed to slip directly at Warlord, Vanguard strike deployment is hard to grasp. Biggest downside was succeeding in Assassinate and No prisoners at opponent's turn. I would have needed those 2 VPs as we tied in the end.

Last match was against Imperial Guard Paski ft. Stormsword. 10" pie eats half boy squad and Paski blasts another squad to half. My turn, infiltrated Tankbustas surprise with assaultrush and overkill the Paski-squadron. Opponent does silly mistakes through the match and I catch Tactical Objectives here and there. Win 15-5 when time ends.

Overall I ended up at 9/12, which is rank higher than I aimed at, so all good.

Bustas work, especially since I remembered the Tank Hunter this time, just didn't got much vehicles against me. Boyz does waht boyz do, catch objectives, soak up fire and bash heads. Mob rule was fair. Traktor, Lobbas, KMKs all work, even better when full size I'll assume. I'm bit too greedy with outflanking Koptas, I should leave one as hidden Linebreaker instead of throwing them all at first obvious target. SAGs disappoint again, random strength isn't reliable at all. But I want to run Mek-list because personal fluff. Time to revert back to KFFs I guess.

Oh also, I always suggest a kff or mff bike, or a sag bike against Marines. The FF bike can be hidden behind the bws with the tank bustas in it. And if you spread threat priority by adding a trukk with 3 manz, and some bikers with your bikerboss it's possible they will focus elsewhere. Though their dedicated anti tank was going into your bws anyway, but av 14 with a 5++ or 4++, is not the worst. I can understand spreading out the love with them in trukks, but against Marines I rarely take boys at all. My troops are minimum Gretchin squads to fit max ap2-3. Marines bring so few models to a table, that the more models with ap3 we can bring, the more likely we are to kick their teeth in.

Also if you do the mff, and use the Waaaghh Ghaz detachment, you get 5 elite slots. Which could net you 3bustas in wagons with killkannons and 2manz missles or 2tankbustas/3manz missles. How about that for confusing target priority that's only like 1228~pts? Of the top of my head... Plenty of room for grots, a mff, some kmks, maybe a sag... Seems fun.

Waaagh detachment is seriously underrated. Five elite slots really opens up the amount of Tankbustas/MANz you can take.

The Orkimedes are pretty good as well. Fearless for a BikerStar is amazing, as is a 4++ for small Deffstars.

I once managed to roll Sanctuary on the Wierdboy who was with a MA Big Mek w/ MFF, 4 MANz and Mad Dok. It was expensive with all the characters but Fearless 2+ 3++ 5+++ models was tough to remove once I zipped up in the Trukk. Also helped that I rolled Hammerhand in the same game so I was looking at 21 S10 Ap2 attacks on the charge, potentially more with Rampage xD

You actually used Sanc on a weirdboy and didnt fry your brains immediately?

I refuse to use the demon spells because literally every time i try i fry my brains. Theyre juicy good spells but i typically get 2 spells off and im down to 1 wound or dead.

Ork specific spells arent something to scoff at anyway. Getting Warpath on a squad of 20+ slugga boyz is hilarious lol

I was very cautious with the amount of dice I rolled.

If I ended up being forced to cast a power from the extra warp charge then it was always Force

But no, my cautious psychic tests were hot for Sanctuary.

FratHammer wrote:
Also if you do the mff, and use the Waaaghh Ghaz detachment, you get 5 elite slots. Which could net you 3bustas in wagons with killkannons and 2manz missles or 2tankbustas/3manz missles. How about that for confusing target priority that's only like 1228~pts? Of the top of my head... Plenty of room for grots, a mff, some kmks, maybe a sag... Seems fun.

I recommend against using the Waaaghh Ghaz detachment for MANZ missiles. When their Trukk dies, and they have to take a pinning test, the +2 to Mob rule makes you 64% more likely to fail. (18% compared to 28%)

That is a pretty significant difference. A Pinned unit of MANZ is a failed MANZ Missile.

It's 50% with a reroll once they are in combat, if they fail combat somehow.

But yes, that's why you keep the cost at 155-160pts total max or put mad doc/megamek/megaboss with them increasing the chances they are fine. Not to mention leadership is passed 50% of the time without resorting to the mob rule.

With that many threats on the table... Should be awesome to see

Oh if there would have been Waaagh Ghaz when Lootas where still Elite...

Yeah that +2 to Mob Rule is the biggest nerf to orks ever. Its a 50-50 auto fail at range since 1-3 results are autofail if you are not in combat. Complete utter trash. That rule alone makes me loathe that supp and wish i never bought the dumb thing.

If they wanted to make Mob Rule better without reverting it to oldschool Mob Rule, then they should have gone with "Can modify the result by +/-1 as the player sees fit" so you can effectively double your odds at getting the result that just needs a Character to go off, or a 1-2 result in combat to autopass. Right now its just a giant middle finger to nonmelee morale checks.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah that +2 to Mob Rule is the biggest nerf to orks ever. Its a 50-50 auto fail at range since 1-3 results are autofail if you are not in combat. Complete utter trash. That rule alone makes me loathe that supp and wish i never bought the dumb thing.

If they wanted to make Mob Rule better without reverting it to oldschool Mob Rule, then they should have gone with "Can modify the result by +/-1 as the player sees fit" so you can effectively double your odds at getting the result that just needs a Character to go off, or a 1-2 result in combat to autopass. Right now its just a giant middle finger to nonmelee morale checks.

I think you got it a bit wrong. +2 means that it's a middle finger only to smaller units. Units that have >10 models and a character autopass. Albeit, recieve stronger beating. On the other hand, it's usually taken for MFF to accompany a stompa and/or BBP to run your big mobs. With stompa, stuff around it is fearless and with BBP, well, fearless too.

We must not forget that this supplement has been written when GW was on it's easy side - Black legion, IG, Militarum Tempestus. They wanted to avoid power creep and make stuff fluffier. Hence warlord traits are as fluffy and fitting as they can get while being pretty useless in actual games. Only crusader is fine. Must say that of all the supplements from that time, Ghaz is probably the toughest one. Half of the formations are good enough to use. As a standalone army...well, it failed purely cause of mob rule, i aggree here.