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Made in dk
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




What are three things that Stop Custodes dead in their tracks?
1. Easy Invulns/FNP. We have no good way of breaking down anything with a 4++ or a good FnP save. This also covers AoC units, as most of our weapons now wound on a 5+ no matter what if the target is in cover.
2. Damage reduction. Oh, your target can only take X number of wounds per phase, or is -1 to all damage? Well, you just invalidated 90% of our faction as it's D2 across the board, and mostly in one single phase.
3. Anything that can punch through invulns and deal heavy unavoidable damage. See: "Tau, clowns, LoV, and now daemons." So your tank just shot one volley and wiped my 7W 2+/4++4/+++ off the map? That seems fair."

10th has to do better. This is getting silly.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




cody.d. wrote:
Just to chip in, is it right to say a unit is weak because there is a small selection of weapons that are efficient at killing them? Custodian guard certainly don't like high ROF, mid ap, D3 weapons, but how many armies can really bring that en mass.

Unless GW is handing it out too casually (and yes, i know they have a tendency to do so) it should be on maybe 2 or 3 units in an enemies army, meaning you can try and take out those priority targets first or try to trade units to put you in a better position later in the game.

Yes LOV are pretty damn strong right now, but I think most people are expecting them to get a nerf sooner rather than later. Be it adjustments in points or the dataslate changing how some things interact. Maybe their railguns will only be able to spill over onto a second model or something. To represent it penetrating one dude then clipping another, more realistic than a unit conga lining.

On a one on one level most custodes are still pretty tough and decently killy.


A small selection of weapons? Custodes are vulnerable to any Dmg3, massed Ap2 fire, auto wounding mechanics and mortals...yes, mortal wounds because not every list is or should be limited to Emperors Chosen.

All of these things have been given out en masse in 9th, nobody can dispute that. Every single faction released at least got an increase in Ap on most weapons. Hence why they even introduced AoC in the first place. Killing Custodes infantry in 9th in laughably easier than it was in 8th. The things keeping us afloat are the dreadnoughts, Trajann and the Caladius. Sagittarum are good because they can shoot very well in emissaries but they are not tough for what they cost.

Are Custodes unplayable? Again, no absolutely not, but it's just a fact that the games lethality has run past them at an alarming rate.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




It's almost funny that Custodes are now now somewhat easier to kill for most factions than Primaris Marines.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Dread Host just went 5-0 at LGT.

The list was Trajann, bike cap, blade champ, vexilus with +1A banner, 3x1 axe allarus, ven dread, 5x shield guard, 3x shield guard, 3x4 sags, 5x prosecutors

So looking at event results, I highly doubt Custodes will have any major adjustments in the next balance dataslate. We rarely take 1st place, but have consistent presence in top placings every week, and have an almost exactly 50% winrate. Custodes are a balanced, mid-table bully, with plenty of competitively viable datasheets, and that is a perfectly fine place for a faction to be.
   
Made in ro
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Again, single piece of sand does not a beach make. Custodes are FAR from performing at the broken level they were performing at. By GW's own admitted metric, we are about 54% WR, whereas clowns are almost 70%, and their eyes will likely be on them and others. We need no major changes. There are some small changes we could use, but nothing like what Clowns, Nids, and LoV are needing.

I would love to know what the purpose of taking above the minimum number of troops was. Or the Blade Champ. 5 shield guard and 3x shield guard, 2 sets of sag, and a batch of sisters seems like overkill. Any vids or run down?
   
Made in us
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




Here is a link to the player's write up of his games at the LGT https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/xuhayk/i_took_my_dread_host_custodes_to_50_at_the_london/
   
Made in ro
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




So basically, his plan was to make a list of complete basic, no frills, one strength, with major glaring weaknesses, and pray that they don't run into Tau, Eldar, or anything with heavy mortals.

This is the crux with Custodes. We look really good on paper, and are generally fun to play, but throw anything at us with 3d weapons, lots of AP, MWs, or hordes, and we nosedive pretty fast. I still enjoy painting my dudes, but I don't think I'll pull them off the shelf for at least another year, unless 10th drops ALL the codexes at once. (Not gonna happen)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So basically, his plan was to make a list of complete basic, no frills, one strength, with major glaring weaknesses, and pray that they don't run into Tau, Eldar, or anything with heavy mortals.

This is the crux with Custodes. We look really good on paper, and are generally fun to play, but throw anything at us with 3d weapons, lots of AP, MWs, or hordes, and we nosedive pretty fast. I still enjoy painting my dudes, but I don't think I'll pull them off the shelf for at least another year, unless 10th drops ALL the codexes at once. (Not gonna happen)

I'm more surprised he didn't mix at least one Buckler for his jump pack dudes.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Right? I mean he even admits he kinda took sub standard options, but doesn't say why. I wonder what the level of skill was in his opponents. I doubt he was playing the Magnus Carlsons of 40k.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right? I mean he even admits he kinda took sub standard options, but doesn't say why. I wonder what the level of skill was in his opponents. I doubt he was playing the Magnus Carlsons of 40k.

I don't think it's terribly high for either. Dude said he should've lost the Tau matchup to begin with and was surprised he didn't.
   
Made in de
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I dunno, are Tau really the boogeyman we make them out to be for us? They have 1 REALLY good unit, that can spam stupid ammounts of MWs to 1 model. Great, you just took that 1 Terminator off the board. But I'm not up on their other high jinks. Do they have anything beyond the Rail Guns that our 2+/4++/4+++ can't over come? Especially on a weak opponent that isn't used to the Camp and Win Custodes method. Surely the Nids would have been a far worse matchup. But he wins that one far more easily. Or am I reading it wrong?
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




hello there,

I signed up for a 40k tournament and I haven't been playing this game in a while. Could you please tell me where I can find the updated rules for the custodes army and for the game in general?
I found these two documents but I'm sure there is more:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/hdlFJHJZCEwPWjwf.pdf

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/MNldQR5DtlFwbAsr.pdf

Thanks in advice,

Christian

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/12 06:17:33


 
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Spado wrote:
hello there,

I signed up for a 40k tournament and I haven't been playing this game in a while. Could you please tell me where I can find the updated rules for the custodes army and for the game in general?
I found these two documents but I'm sure there is more:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/hdlFJHJZCEwPWjwf.pdf

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/MNldQR5DtlFwbAsr.pdf

Thanks in advice,

Christian


I'm afraid the question "where can I find the rules for 40K" is not a simple one to answer but I'll do my best :-)

Firstly we are playing 9th edition, GW don't call it that but its the 9th version of the game that has been released.
There is a big rulebook that has all the fluff and loads of rules for different play styles in it: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40000-9th-Rulebook-EN-2020
I think you may be better off with the following which is a free download of the core game rules: https://warhammer40000.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/ENG_40K9_Basic_Rules.pdf

For custodes most of the rules for the army are available in Codex Custodes: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/codex-adeptus-custodes-2021-eng
If you wish to use custode models released by forgeworld you will need the Imperial Armour Compendium: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Imperial-Armour-Compendium-2020-FW


But there's more........

GW have been patching the competitive game for the last two years and do so in various ways, I'll list those that are relevant to the current game.

Chapter Approved Books - these are released every 6 month and contain updated mission rules, matched play rules, and various other things needed to play competetive 40K - The latest one is Chapter Approved Warzone Nephilim: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/warzone-nephilim-grand-tournament-mission-pack-2022-eng
You will need this book to play in a tournament: - unfortunately its out of stock in alot of places..... The next version is due for release in december, if you can borrow one until then.

Updated points - GW try to balance units by changing the points every 6 month, thankfuly they now give those points away for free instead of charging for them. It's called the munitorum field manual and you can find it here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/#warhammer-40000
Also at the above downloads link you will find a document called the balance dataslate, every 3 months GW release a rules change document that is designed to nerf the best preforming armies and boost the weakest armies, its is nearly universally used for matched play and you will need to take a look if you are playing custodes.

FAQs for rulebooks and codexs: https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/
These cover typos, clarifications and sometime balance alterations - the is a download of more or less all books released - no they aren't in a good order or colated in any way :-(

I think that is everything, I've likely forgotten something. Writing that has just reiterated to me what a horrible hobby this is to try and introduce to new players, what a gak show all those documents are.

That said, good luck getting back in - the rules can be a messy dogpile but the game can still be very fun and the painting and modelling aspect is always a joy assuming you enjoy that kind of thing :-)

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Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Just signed up for a tourny and you need to understand the rules? I hope you have a good time! It sounds like you have a lot of studying to get done!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just signed up for a tourny and you need to understand the rules? I hope you have a good time! It sounds like you have a lot of studying to get done!

He doesn't need to understand the rules, he needs to catch up on what's up to date. That's perfectly reasonable to be frank
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






Lets not forget the balance dataslate thats required in addition to the codex...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/12 17:43:51


Data author for Battlescribe
Found a bug? Join, ask, report:
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Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




@WisdomLS: thanks a lot for the exhaustive answer, it was very helpful indeed.

I've only played few games in 9th edition as almost all of my friends decided to switch to HH which I also like but I still cannot play for obvious reasons (damn you gw just release the rulebook I so desperately need please!). I have the codex and the datacards and indeed @EviscerationPlague I should only catch up on what's up to date. Hopefully this won't take me too much time.

@Thairne the tournament organizer wants the list written with battlescribe so I guess I won't have to be worried about that.
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Your welcome, I found it an interesting exercise in seeing where all the rules actually are!

Battlescribe will help you out, its pretty upto date for Custodes (points definitely are), somewhere else I forgot to mention is Wahapedia:
https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/the-rules/playing-this-game/

A really useful website where they seem to transcribe all the game rules and put in it a nicely searchable format! Its nicely kept up to date and really handy for looking up rules mid game.
Its hosted on a russian server so I imagine its immune to GWs trying to shut it down - either that of they use it themselves

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Spado wrote:
@WisdomLS: thanks a lot for the exhaustive answer, it was very helpful indeed.

I've only played few games in 9th edition as almost all of my friends decided to switch to HH which I also like but I still cannot play for obvious reasons (damn you gw just release the rulebook I so desperately need please!). I have the codex and the datacards and indeed @EviscerationPlague I should only catch up on what's up to date. Hopefully this won't take me too much time.

@Thairne the tournament organizer wants the list written with battlescribe so I guess I won't have to be worried about that.


Just regarding the Balance Dataslate: not everything is displayed in battlescribe. There are some heavy changes in the balance dataslate regarding some of our key stratagems, that you really need to know if you want to go to a tournament. Also some of our units lost the objective secured ability, which is also quite an important change that heavily affects gameplay of some units (wardens and terminators specifically).

The dataslate can be found on warhammer community, but be advised that there is going to be a new balance dataslate before the end of this month, which is going to make the previous dataslate obsolete.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I find it hilarious that IG (According to the new leaks) can literally give any unit in their force ObSec now, and their vehicles count as 5, their superheavies count as 10. Elites are 3 each. So with a simple order, that max squad of Ogryns now counts as 28 obsec models. Awesome. Really glad we were told our bikes having Obsec was TOO OP.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I find it hilarious that IG (According to the new leaks) can literally give any unit in their force ObSec now, and their vehicles count as 5, their superheavies count as 10. Elites are 3 each. So with a simple order, that max squad of Ogryns now counts as 28 obsec models. Awesome. Really glad we were told our bikes having Obsec was TOO OP.


That's not really a fair comparison, besides....bikes never had obsec in 9th edition in the first place....
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I find it hilarious that IG (According to the new leaks) can literally give any unit in their force ObSec now, and their vehicles count as 5, their superheavies count as 10. Elites are 3 each. So with a simple order, that max squad of Ogryns now counts as 28 obsec models. Awesome. Really glad we were told our bikes having Obsec was TOO OP.


Remind me what's the win rate of IG and custodes?

2022 painted/bought: 681/867 
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






How.. is that relevant? We're talking about a codex that isnt out.
It could have an 70% WR for all we know.

Data author for Battlescribe
Found a bug? Join, ask, report:
https://discord.gg/pMXqCqWJRE 
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




Tiberias wrote:
Spado wrote:
@WisdomLS: thanks a lot for the exhaustive answer, it was very helpful indeed.

I've only played few games in 9th edition as almost all of my friends decided to switch to HH which I also like but I still cannot play for obvious reasons (damn you gw just release the rulebook I so desperately need please!). I have the codex and the datacards and indeed @EviscerationPlague I should only catch up on what's up to date. Hopefully this won't take me too much time.

@Thairne the tournament organizer wants the list written with battlescribe so I guess I won't have to be worried about that.


Just regarding the Balance Dataslate: not everything is displayed in battlescribe. There are some heavy changes in the balance dataslate regarding some of our key stratagems, that you really need to know if you want to go to a tournament. Also some of our units lost the objective secured ability, which is also quite an important change that heavily affects gameplay of some units (wardens and terminators specifically).

The dataslate can be found on warhammer community, but be advised that there is going to be a new balance dataslate before the end of this month, which is going to make the previous dataslate obsolete.



I just read the dataslate: if I understand it correctly only custodian guards and prosecutors have the objective secure rule?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/13 20:00:37


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

Spado wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Spado wrote:
@WisdomLS: thanks a lot for the exhaustive answer, it was very helpful indeed.

I've only played few games in 9th edition as almost all of my friends decided to switch to HH which I also like but I still cannot play for obvious reasons (damn you gw just release the rulebook I so desperately need please!). I have the codex and the datacards and indeed @EviscerationPlague I should only catch up on what's up to date. Hopefully this won't take me too much time.

@Thairne the tournament organizer wants the list written with battlescribe so I guess I won't have to be worried about that.


Just regarding the Balance Dataslate: not everything is displayed in battlescribe. There are some heavy changes in the balance dataslate regarding some of our key stratagems, that you really need to know if you want to go to a tournament. Also some of our units lost the objective secured ability, which is also quite an important change that heavily affects gameplay of some units (wardens and terminators specifically).

The dataslate can be found on warhammer community, but be advised that there is going to be a new balance dataslate before the end of this month, which is going to make the previous dataslate obsolete.



I just read the dataslate: if I understand it correctly only custodian guards and prosecutors have the objective secure rule?


And the Sagitarum (Spelling? The guys from ForgeWorld with the guns).
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




I just finished reading the chapter approved and I was wondering if you could suggest me some of the best secondary objectives for our golden boys. Additionally I also noticed that now one has to pay for a warlord trait as well as for the relic. Is it actually worth it? Finally I’d like to have some feedback regarding this 2000 points list.

Spoiler:

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [101 PL, 2,000pts, 1CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

Game Type: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, 175pts, -1CP]: 3. Superior Creation, Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Tip of the Spear, Warlord

+ Troops +

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, 190pts, -1CP]: Stratagem: Eternal Penitent, 2x Twin Adrathic Destructor

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, 170pts]: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Venatari Custodians [16 PL, 330pts]
. 6x Venatari Custodian /w Kinetic Destroyer: 6x Kinetic Destroyer, 6x Tarsus Buckler

+ Heavy Support +

Caladius Grav-tank [11 PL, 205pts]: Twin Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon

Caladius Grav-tank [11 PL, 205pts]: Twin Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, 275pts]: Arachnus Storm Cannon
. Telemon Caestus

++ Total: [101 PL, 2,000pts, 1CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Thanks a lot for your help.

Christian

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/13 22:04:34


 
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




Spado wrote:
I just finished reading the chapter approved and I was wondering if you could suggest me some of the best secondary objectives for our golden boys. Additionally I also noticed that now one has to pay for a warlord trait as well as for the relic. Is it actually worth it? Finally I’d like to have some feedback regarding this 2000 points list.

Spoiler:

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [101 PL, 2,000pts, 1CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

Game Type: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, 175pts, -1CP]: 3. Superior Creation, Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Tip of the Spear, Warlord

+ Troops +

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, 190pts, -1CP]: Stratagem: Eternal Penitent, 2x Twin Adrathic Destructor

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, 170pts]: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Venatari Custodians [16 PL, 330pts]
. 6x Venatari Custodian /w Kinetic Destroyer: 6x Kinetic Destroyer, 6x Tarsus Buckler

+ Heavy Support +

Caladius Grav-tank [11 PL, 205pts]: Twin Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon

Caladius Grav-tank [11 PL, 205pts]: Twin Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, 275pts]: Arachnus Storm Cannon
. Telemon Caestus

++ Total: [101 PL, 2,000pts, 1CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Thanks a lot for your help.

Christian


The list looks fine. If you have access to Trajann Valoris I'd consider including him. There's a reason he's a staple in most comp lists. He's a very good force multiplier, he's a beatstick and one of very few infantry units in our codex that has access to dmg3 in melee, he let's you regenerate CP and he just straight up gives you one extra CP. I'd drop some of the venatari to include him, for me they never really earn their points back anyway.
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Good looking list, unfortunately custode vehicles are really the only effective way we can play nowaday so you should do well

As Tiberias said above, the venatari are the weakest part of the list if you wanted to make changes.
They really suffer from losing Obsec and the proliferation of armour of contempt making them pretty ineffective.

Trajan would be a great add in, or another dread or some bikes.

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Made in de
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I'd actually drop one of the Sags for a sisters bolter squad, throw in a flag, drop one of the Contemptors, and try and make points for a second telemon. A mono Telemon is just a walking target that gets sniped on turn 1 most times. 2 forces your opponent to play around them.
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 Thairne wrote:
How.. is that relevant? We're talking about a codex that isnt out.
It could have an 70% WR for all we know.


Well for book that isn't out it's hardly relevant to start calling something unfair now then is it? So whole point complaining about their obsec is sooo irrelevant that if he wants to bring it up current WR is lot more relevant.

2022 painted/bought: 681/867 
   
 
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