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Agreed. The fact that they didn't go for Sciocast also suggests that the budget for Warmachine just isn't there right now to justify investment and the sales are likely not high enough to seek outside investment/loans (we also have no idea what other loans they might already have repayments on).

My hope is that this plan works enough to spark interest, get the same selling again, some some active gaming and give PP the income from it that's enough to perhaps consider moving to sciocast and other production methods in the future.


In theory 3D printing is good for the small to lower weight end of the market. Scaling up to medium and large scale you can do, but its not as easy nor efficient as other production methods.

I think the main issue with Siocast is just that its a proprietary technology. The last thing PP needs right now is to switch over their entire production line to something entirely dependent on a foreign third party. While I personally have enough faith in Siocast, I can totally see PP being a little cautious after the PVC debacle. And its not like the 3D prints are subpar. I'm quite happy with what I got in the preview boxes. They are sharp models that look great with remarkably little prep time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 emanuelb wrote:
So is there gonna be a version for PC? Or can I download the app on my pc?

There is a PC version coming. Dark Legacy confirmed it but didn't realize that only the mobile versions would be available this weekend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

I haven't really been following this much. What exactly is happening that's got people so annoyed?

A lot of the old models are being moved to a Legacy format and retired. A subset of them are being used to create a new Standard style format to go along with all new armies released going forward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 emanuelb wrote:
I wonder what are the other armies that will be added for Prime Legacy. I understand the main factions will get a 2nd army, but what about Cygnar? Technically it already has 2 armies (incl Storm Legion), so will it get another one? And if yes, which one?
First Army is based on Trencher theme from what I see, but I wonder the other one what will it be.

We've got a list of the 13 armies that will be releasing 1 per month over the next year:

Cygnar - Storm Knights (the old ones separate from the new Storm Legion)
Khador - Winter Guard (the old ones separate from the new Winter Korps)
Menoth - Flameguard
Cryx - Blackfleet Pirates
Retribution - Mage Hunters
Mercenaries - Dwarves
Mercenaries - Cephylix
Mercenaries - Pirates
Mercenaries(Minions) - Farrow
Trollbloods - United Kriels
Circle - Blackclads
Skorne - Immortals
Legion - Blighted Nyss

 LunarSol wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I haven't really been following this much. What exactly is happening that's got people so annoyed?

A lot of the old models are being moved to a Legacy format and retired. A subset of them are being used to create a new Standard style format to go along with all new armies released going forward.

Outstanding.

I mean, why would anyone want to use their existing models in the new edition of a game?

 vipoid wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I haven't really been following this much. What exactly is happening that's got people so annoyed?

A lot of the old models are being moved to a Legacy format and retired. A subset of them are being used to create a new Standard style format to go along with all new armies released going forward.

Outstanding.

I mean, why would anyone want to use their existing models in the new edition of a game?

Essentially it comes down to PP no longer being able to produce the old models and resculpting the line just not having any chance of being a profitable venture. From our games over the weekend the compromise is pretty well implemented and as long as PP follows through on its promise to provide legacy rules for everything, I'm pretty happy with the results. Not a perfect solution, but the game has been horribly bloated for a long time and I can't say I'm really surprised either.

 vipoid wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I haven't really been following this much. What exactly is happening that's got people so annoyed?

A lot of the old models are being moved to a Legacy format and retired. A subset of them are being used to create a new Standard style format to go along with all new armies released going forward.

Outstanding.

I mean, why would anyone want to use their existing models in the new edition of a game?

Well alternative is of course give rules with no models for sale.

For what's marketed as competitive game that would put players who start with mk4 at marked disadvantage the moment old model is found to have so good rules you must have it.

Alternatively of course artificially make them so weak none can come even close to mk4 units

tneva82 wrote:
Alternatively of course artificially make them so weak none can come even close to mk4 units

Good ol' Sword Knights and Long Gunners!

 Overread wrote:
Agreed. The fact that they didn't go for Sciocast also suggests that the budget for Warmachine just isn't there right now to justify investment and the sales are likely not high enough to seek outside investment/loans (we also have no idea what other loans they might already have repayments on).

As I have some personal knowledge on why they didn't go with Siocast from conversations with PP staff - Siocast is crap quality, worse than their previous vinyl plastic (this is true, I and other miniatures producers I know have looked into it and its crap, as is the quality of the siocast stuff being produced by CB, PSC, etc.), and there was too much proprietary red tape/bureacracy that made it undesirable to them as there were risk factors with losing control of their product like what happened previously with China.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Agreed. The fact that they didn't go for Sciocast also suggests that the budget for Warmachine just isn't there right now to justify investment and the sales are likely not high enough to seek outside investment/loans (we also have no idea what other loans they might already have repayments on).

As I have some personal knowledge on why they didn't go with Siocast from conversations with PP staff - Siocast is crap quality, worse than their previous vinyl plastic (this is true, I and other miniatures producers I know have looked into it and its crap, as is the quality of the siocast stuff being produced by CB, PSC, etc.), and there was too much proprietary red tape/bureacracy that made it undesirable to them as there were risk factors with losing control of their product like what happened previously with China.

Yeah, I can believe that. The few SioCast models I have worked with I wasn't really impressed; it didn't feel like an "improvement" over PVC to me. Plus I hear those machines are pretty darn expensive (80K USD is what I heard, but not sure if that's really accurate).

I think it feels a lot better than PVC in terms of cast quality, but I haven't worked with much in terms of facial features and the like to feel that strongly about it. It seems a little brittle like a hard resin and its got flash problems like most molded materials.

I mostly agree with the sentiment that its not the wonder material that everyone seems to think. It's definitely a solid product but it has its own set of drawbacks like everything else.

The Fallen Retribution has been unveiled!



https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/11/02/introducing-the-empire-of-the-eternal-dusk/

 LunarSol wrote:
The Fallen Retribution has been unveiled!



https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/11/02/introducing-the-empire-of-the-eternal-dusk/

Nice models and all, but thise Warjacks look like they belong in Warcaster. Not a fan of the colour scheme.

 LunarSol wrote:
The Fallen Retribution has been unveiled!



https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/11/02/introducing-the-empire-of-the-eternal-dusk/

Are these the vampire elf dudes?

Not liking that look, at all. Definitely feels too far away from the steampunk that originally was the aesthetic (yes, I know, Ios was a bit less so, but still...) which is a big part of what drew me in. Also, yeah, that color scheme does not photograph well.

I don't even know what the hell am I looking at.

 LunarSol wrote:
The Fallen Retribution has been unveiled!



https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/11/02/introducing-the-empire-of-the-eternal-dusk/

Literally a Neomechanica jack with a Ret head on it. PP re-using assets.

Really really not a fan of the aesthetic look of Mk4. I hope that the Hordes factions still look like proper hordes rather than some lazer tech with a trollblood or Circle face.

Not a fan of this design either. I'm glad to see PP finally have 360 views on their previews but honestly I'd just prefer to be able to click on the photos and see them in a decent size. Their pics are so damn small.

 Valander wrote:
Not liking that look, at all. Definitely feels too far away from the steampunk that originally was the aesthetic (yes, I know, Ios was a bit less so, but still...) which is a big part of what drew me in. Also, yeah, that color scheme does not photograph well.

No kidding. I can barely tell what I'm looking at in places. What I can make out is... not great. The chain whip and shield are absurdly thick.
The weird art-deco Warcraft sword is fine if you like that style, but I can't even tell what that jack has in? on? the other hand.
Not!Goreshade seems like a step backwards in pretty much every respect.

Spider guy seems like the best of a bad lot.

Schmapi wrote:Not a fan of this design either. I'm glad to see PP finally have 360 views on their previews but honestly I'd just prefer to be able to click on the photos and see them in a decent size. Their pics are so damn small.

Yeah. They don't seem to grasp that (particularly with their new sales model), online pics are what sell their products. They need to be bigger, better, show off a lot more and have functional, photographable color schemes. And the 360s could stand to be a little less dated and clunky- not sure word press videos were the way to go here.

The NMM is just too harsh. When I’ve flipped to greyscale they mostly look like edgier Ret jacks. I think they’ll look a lot better in another scheme.

We’ve noticed the same thing with the Orgoth preview models. They look MUCH better in darker colors.

Looking bad in the studio paint scheme is an Iosian tradition.

Honestly thought they were Warcaster at first.

 Arbitrator wrote:
Honestly thought they were Warcaster at first.

I really dislike these models in the sense of Warmachine/Hordes.

I feel they're rapidly losing that awesome high fantasy steam punk vibe that drew me to the game (In addition to Trollbloods being able to literally headbutt and toss enemy models like playing violent bowling)

 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
Honestly thought they were Warcaster at first.

I really dislike these models in the sense of Warmachine/Hordes.

I feel they're rapidly losing that awesome high fantasy steam punk vibe that drew me to the game (In addition to Trollbloods being able to literally headbutt and toss enemy models like playing violent bowling)

Well the ones in the quoted imaged aren’t Steam Punk, they’re from the future space game. Retribution has never done the Steam Punk thing though, they’ve always been more arcane/smooth Eldar-like in appearance. If anything the new ones are More blended to the setting with the addition of rivets to their metalwork that they didn’t have before.

 Arbitrator wrote:
Honestly thought they were Warcaster at first.

Makes sense. Pretty sure Angel painted both of these.

I dunno, they look a lot like Ret + WHFB Dark Elves* to me, which is fine and cool. I'd say these are my #2 after Khador, because to my eyes Khador preserved the most of the old vibe and these the next most.

I do wish they'd stop with the hyper NMM and use a more grounded, less distracting style

* Check out the headcrests on the Dreadguard (as well as their name!), the loincloth design on Hazaroth, plus the color palette is spot on.

Yeah, I'm much happier with the look on that Warcaster and what we've seen of the infantry. I'm not usually an undead guy but these I find pretty striking and easily on par with Khador for the best of the new stuff.

There is potential on those minis. I can see them fitting general sci-fi games and even infinity.

 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

I feel they're rapidly losing that awesome high fantasy steam punk vibe that drew me to the game

Seconded. I do have the feeling as more and mroe is released that PP have lost their grip on the game and the community. I mean, if I painted a blood drop on this is would't be out of place on a 40k board:

These being posted yet?

They have not!

I thought the Khador not-Centurians were already posted here? Definitely feel those are a downgrade from the previous Man-o-war armor design.