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Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Dahak wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They're cold? Someone should buy those poor, poor products a house.


There is a suggestion on the Lawsuit Facebook that Harmony Gold has required Paladium to hand over all the remaining stock which they are having shipped to a liquidator.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/231618700509374/permalink/620350574969516/?hc_location=ufi


Now that's funny. Because Kevin Siembieda has done the same thing in the past, Myrmidon Press and the Rifts CCG being the prime examples.
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

Sounds like the "right" thing to do.
HG will own the property, their money making days are numbered so they will perform a literal cash-grab before their IP product disappears in the tender care of PB.
I am curious where we will see the RRT sale next?
I feel a curious feeling of leniency for a liquidator getting my money who already bought the stuff: the money transaction already occured, no royalty kickbacks being handed out.
Well, things are heating up and PB is 98% of the way of going "back to normal".

Wonder what the final parting kiss-off post will be for the RRT KS page?

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





I think we're due a "Don't even think about suing us!" update soon, yes?

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

I used to have a fairly substantial collection of the Rifts CCG cards. Like, as recently as half a decade ago. One day, while going through a bunch of stuff after a move, I found them, and decided to figure out their rarities. Pulled the rarest cards/ones I liked the artwork on, and threw out the rest (and nothing of value was lost).

Obviously even the 'rarest' cards hold just shy of zero value as anything but kindling (and even then, I believe ccg cards aren't great to be around while burning due to the inks and coatings and whatnot), but despite my disdain for the company, I do have a bit of a collection of odd/assorted cards from various CCGs over the years. Did you know there was a 24 CCG? It was... not great, best I could tell (history seems to back me up on this). Never actually played it, but I was marathon'ing the seasons pretty hard for a while there.

But I'm getting astray from my original point. Which was that the Rifts CCG wasn't very good either (as can be expected, but this was almost 20 years ago, so my taste and understanding of the depths of their villainy had yet to fully form).
   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

 Talizvar wrote:

I am curious where we will see the RRT sale next?
I feel a curious feeling of leniency for a liquidator getting my money who already bought the stuff: the money transaction already occured, no royalty kickbacks being handed out.


An interesting question; Miniature Market seems to be a common destination for such things, but since they likely just got rid of their cores how likely would they be to want to pick up more. At the same time, at liquidation prices they might be able to move some with the "look at the crazy savings versus retail (that nobody with much sense would have ever paid)!" style of promotion.

I guess it boils down to what the hypothetical liquidation price ends up being. While I'd imagine most vendors have already been burned by how slow-moving most of the stock is on the shelf, for a low-enough price it might be worth taking on. Morbid curiosity and a sufficiently low price might actually get me to buy a core. Pretty sure I have some room on the shelf next to Dreadfleet...
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

Mysterio wrote:I think we're due a "Don't even think about suing us!" update soon, yes?
I think that would be at least half of it but I agree it would be guaranteed to have some roundabout mention.
A little bit of throwing the bus on people, a bit of "we really did our best for our much beloved fan-friends", some statement of "trusting too much" and about getting back to their "core strengths".
Forar wrote:But I'm getting astray from my original point. Which was that the Rifts CCG wasn't very good either (as can be expected, but this was almost 20 years ago, so my taste and understanding of the depths of their villainy had yet to fully form).
Yeah, PB villainy usually extends to what is expedient at the time.
Krinsath wrote:Morbid curiosity and a sufficiently low price might actually get me to buy a core. Pretty sure I have some room on the shelf next to Dreadfleet...
I would be tempted to grab a couple more, some of my plans may burn through a few models.
Slow but sure I will have a "complete" RRT to my satisfaction.
Some crazy people have gone fully into part 2 and 3 into the saga... I am not quite ready to delve into that madness just yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 15:51:18


A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




The YouTube lawyer video has been pulled.

Some people suggest that this is Harmony Gold or Palladium looking to silence things.

That doesn't appear to be the case. The infringement names someone who I believe is a backer, who has a very short (a couple seconds at most) video clip from his own YouTube channel included, that I don't recall having audio.

The reason for the takedown is a copyright claim, which suggests that there was a lack of permission (if needed), or a lack of credit (if needed), or possibly a minor defamation (if the filer didn't like the portrayal) and that the usage doesn't fall into the fair use allowances of either the US or YouTube. Or YouTube just overreacted until things can get sorted out. Which would surprise me, given YouTube's tolerance of MASSIVE donkey-caves on their website, both creators and especially commentors.

So this isn't a conspiracy by the powers that be. The backer in question has been a vocal critic of Palladium for the last couple years, including throwing a fairly public tantrum in the Kickstarter commentary, so I think this is just an ego issue.
   
Made in au
Snord





 Dahak wrote:

There is a suggestion on the Lawsuit Facebook that Harmony Gold has required Paladium to hand over all the remaining stock which they are having shipped to a liquidator.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/231618700509374/permalink/620350574969516/?hc_location=ufi


Its amusing that they have painted themselves into a corner with this one.

In my (limited)experience with expiration of rights the company can either 1) provide certificates of destruction of the products or 2) sell the remaining stock to the new rights holder at cost (if they want them). Before this happens though the company usually heavily discounts the product to clear as much as possible to still make some profit but in this case they couldn't discount the product due to trying to present the highest value to the KS refunds.

I hope Kevvie has been squirming on this for awhile, im sure he would have much preferred to dump the lot and make $5 a box than having 30? pallets of stock sitting there doing nothing. Even dumping them at cost would have turned boxes into $$$$
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider






And I hope who ever made the strike against the video did their homework.

I know Youtube's automatic reaction for any rule break is to take the video down, then resolve.

When dealing with legal stuff, you would think an acting lawyer is someone that usually knows
the boundaries more than normal people. But someone could also make an new account, then
put a strike against any video. Something goes wrong.. close the old account and make a new account.

Speaking of lawyers, it seems like Palladium won't budge on refunds of money unless you have a
court case against them.. And I am sure they would just keep asking for extensions..

 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





 Genoside07 wrote:

Speaking of lawyers, it seems like Palladium won't budge on refunds of money unless you have a
court case against them.. And I am sure they would just keep asking for extensions..


Where did Palladium 'clarify' their stance as this?

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider






By the shear number of Kickstarter backers asking for a cash refund and they are completely ignored sends a clear message.

 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Yeah, sure, but I thought you were saying that PB had explicitly said what you wrote!

I agree that they'll fall back on the 'Silence Is The Best Defense' tactic, combined with the 'Ignore Bad News and It Will Go Away' plan.

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie






Even dumping them at cost would have turned boxes into $$$$


Palladium's cost was $0.
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 n815e wrote:
Even dumping them at cost would have turned boxes into $$$$
Palladium's cost was $0.
A very important point to make clear.
Think PB did not profit from this?
When I see a local hobby shop still flogging some $34 add-on kits of RRT, nevermind any "remaining" funds if they were not all used on retail stock.
No matter how i look at it, it seems PB looking to make the most of the money "they have" and trying to make it money "that is theirs".

I am sure any lawsuit filed against them will be funded by that money since it does involve RRT so is justified.
Yep, still bitter.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




 Genoside07 wrote:
And I hope who ever made the strike against the video did their homework.

I know Youtube's automatic reaction for any rule break is to take the video down, then resolve.

When dealing with legal stuff, you would think an acting lawyer is someone that usually knows the boundaries more than normal people. But someone could also make an new account, then put a strike against any video. Something goes wrong.. close the old account and make a new account.

Well, the video is up in an unmodified form (ie, the couple of seconds clip that caused the issue in the first place is STILL included), so it seems it was an automatic reaction thing.

So it appears the video's author was able to explain why his usage of that clip was legitimate (or the complainant had a change of heart), and hopefully we don't get more fethery and everyone who wants to see the video can do so.
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie






Dave will say blacked out and doesn't remember doing it.
   
Made in au
Snord





 n815e wrote:

Palladium's cost was $0.


I know what you are alluding to but there was still a $$$ cost as that money could have gone into other important things like framing geese pictures, mustache wax or denim jeans.
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie






Yes!
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider






I was thinking about the offer the liquidators would offer.. Just last Christmas I saw a few times the core box set marked at $20 and still not sold.
Looking at the eBay prices they are all over the place but it seems the market has hit it's saturation point. So unless they buy each box set for
next to nothing I don't think it will be worth their time after paying shipping to location and inventory management.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nottingham, UK

That's the thing with liquidation through an agent - it goes for what it goes for - you don't get a say in it. There's no offer - you agree, in advance, to trust the liquidators' assessment.

They will pay our far less than they think they can sell it for. Given it's not shifting significantly at $35/core, they might try and pitch it at $15, and buy at $5.

However, even this is doubtful, if the liquidators do their homework (and they usually do) - the game is DEAD - stillborn.

This makes it very, very unappealing to the broader market of minis gamers in general, which in itself is horrendously niche. The physical stock remaining is frankly next to worthless by the time you factor in cost of sales.

Effectively, if I were PB I'd realistically expect scrap value only - weight of plastic and card for recycling. We're not talking about bankrupt stock iPads or laptops here.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/26 16:39:15


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Yup. Liquidation is exactly what it sounds like.

   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yup. Liquidation is exactly what it sounds like.
I think my wife threatened my miniatures with that if I "messed around":
Place on cooking sheet, put in oven at about 400 deg F until "done", repeat till all items are processed.
She is such a kidder!
Little risk there since I am a basement dwelling troll that goes outside to do yard-work and little else. <edit> Where else would I find anyone remotely as exciting as her??
I may go to her for advice on what to do about Palladium Books, I may have to edit her recommendations for the more sensitive types...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/26 17:53:13


A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Will the license ever really run out? I think Kevin n' Scooter have done more updates since February in rapid succession than we've EVER seen in this Kickfalter.

They sound like the furniture store near me that was CLOSING and LIQUIDATING their inventory when I first moved to town twenty friggin months ago and they're still there.
   
Made in us
Expendable Defender Destroid Rookie





Ha! After today's email, that was the exact same thought I had.
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

Funny in the PB update on their page:

The sound level was more manageable thanks to Scott’s research about “moving blankets” used to muffle sound. We hung approximately 80 of these cheap, light, gray blankets all over the pallets to muffle sound, and it worked.

Ah, not a huge difference in absorption coefficient of cardboard vs. blankets (depending on density and surface shape), some difference, but are not a priority target.
The more effective application would to have hangings on the cinderblock walls and some carpets on cement floors since they are the most "reflective".
Basically, HUGE bull-pucks on that fine research.
I find it funny they felt they needed to say anything about the blankets, especially since they were so targeted... why do people give such good evidence they are lying? Why?
I think I am more upset they are that dumb (or think we are) than the actual lie... I really have priority problems.

I must also add, you would need a given density of noise sources before the decibel level would need managing (how many people attended??)... but Kevin always had trouble hearing us:

One would think he was more concerned with muffling the look/sound of failure literally all around him.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
One added note:
Battletech just got released for the PC.
I like what I have seen so-far.
I think after this weekend, I have no reason to even look at Kickstarter.
I am uncertain if I want to use them again, I still feel crowdsourcing has it's place but "pre-order" no matter how you look at it ultimately seems like a fool's game.

I think I am tired with the constant push to make the consumer take the risk and do the work.

- Don't have money for the project you want to work on? Get people to give you money.
- Fall through on the agreement? Up to the consumer to enforce.

Yep, love doing "investments" so other people can play with my money... no, I do a better job managing it myself thanks.

Don't get me started on self-check-out , I blame the loss of full-service gas stations for that one.

I am feeling a very "get off my lawn" old guy moment.
I will shut up now and look forward to playing more Battletech.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/27 15:12:21


A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

Been to a full-service station in Oregon; didn't like it. On the other hand, I can't stand stores where I have to bag my own groceries - go figure.

Thanks to Robotech and a few other KS's - many of which I luckily did not get involved in at the last moment (AVP, Tom Reidy's scam, Conan, All Quiet on the Martian Front), I decided that Kickstarter was not the platform for me, and deleted my account. The wait times are a year + out, quality is not assured and if things go sideways, you're at the mercy of the creator. It just wasn't worth the risk for me - I'll just wait for retail, others can take the risks.

And I still haven't heard back from THESE idiots about swapping out.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

winterdyne wrote:
That's the thing with liquidation through an agent - it goes for what it goes for - you don't get a say in it. There's no offer - you agree, in advance, to trust the liquidators' assessment.

They will pay our far less than they think they can sell it for. Given it's not shifting significantly at $35/core, they might try and pitch it at $15, and buy at $5.

However, even this is doubtful, if the liquidators do their homework (and they usually do) - the game is DEAD - stillborn.

This makes it very, very unappealing to the broader market of minis gamers in general, which in itself is horrendously niche. The physical stock remaining is frankly next to worthless by the time you factor in cost of sales.

Effectively, if I were PB I'd realistically expect scrap value only - weight of plastic and card for recycling. We're not talking about bankrupt stock iPads or laptops here.


I'd easily pay $15 for a core box, maybe $30 for two...if they are part of an order with free shipping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Talizar, it really is the coverup and not the crime that gets them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/27 17:12:26


   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Talizar, it really is the coverup and not the crime that gets them.
That is a big lesson in life in a nutshell:
I just wrote about a 5 line rant on this topic and deleted it.
More than a few people will be happy to see PB go back to being some irrelevant RPG company.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in ca
Three Color Minimum






 Stormonu wrote:
Been to a full-service station in Oregon; didn't like it. On the other hand, I can't stand stores where I have to bag my own groceries - go figure.

Thanks to Robotech and a few other KS's - many of which I luckily did not get involved in at the last moment (AVP, Tom Reidy's scam, Conan, All Quiet on the Martian Front), I decided that Kickstarter was not the platform for me, and deleted my account. The wait times are a year + out, quality is not assured and if things go sideways, you're at the mercy of the creator. It just wasn't worth the risk for me - I'll just wait for retail, others can take the risks.

And I still haven't heard back from THESE idiots about swapping out.


I find most grocery clerks can't pack a bag to save their lives.
No bread and eggs don't go under the cans of tomatoes.
Don't even get me started on the morons that pack stuff for you at Costco....

My old-man rant for the day....
....anyways back on topic!
   
Made in us
Near Golden Daemon Caliber





Affton, MO. USA

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 ThaneCawdor wrote:
They sued his small game company called Wizards of the Coast for including conversions to the Palladium system in their universal supplement line.
Pretty much tanked the RPG plans and forced them to publish some small card game instead...


Something else to blame Palladium for!


Yes, because The Primal Order (name of the books, I still have them all) was really well written and great potential. I hope they put it out again after Kevin dies.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
 
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