bikes and rapid fire

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**skyth**

Units that can move and fire heavy weapons is more specific than general units.

And no mix and matching involved.

**DaIronGob**

But not more specific than following the rules specified for a pistol.

**beef**

is this still going on?

**skyth**

The rules for a pistol are for all units...So, yes, the rules for units that can move and fire heavy weapons are more specific.

Unless you want to say that the heavy weapons rule is more specific than the rule about units that can move and fire heavy weapons.

**Mr. Bombadidaloo**

*vrooom blum bum bum bum bum bum*

*Nonchalantly rides in on a bike with a cooler installed in the sidecar*

"I come bearing tubs and tubs of various ice cream flavors for all! The price- nothing too much, just bring a pistol and fire it twice in the air! It will be GLORIOUS!"

<3

**ender502**

Posted By skyth on 08/16/2007 4:52 PM

The rules for a pistol are for all units...So, yes, the rules for units that can move and fire heavy weapons are more specific.

Ummm... the rule for pistols is for ... pistols.

ender502

**skyth**

And you miss the point.

**ender502**

Posted By skyth on 08/16/2007 5:57 PM
And you miss the point.

Oh, i get the point. Your contention is the unit rules override the weapon rules. I agree wholeheartedly. But pistols are never mention in the bike unit entry. Mounted rapid fire weapons, rapid fire weapons and heavy weapons are mentioned. No pistols.

Are you ready Abbot....First base!

ender502

**skyth**

Right, but they are mentioned on page 36 with the caveat that units that can move and fire heavies can assault after firing.

**ender502**

Posted By skyth on 08/17/2007 5:16 AM
Right, but they are mentioned on page 36 with the caveat that units that can move and fire heavies can assault after firing.

Wrong, pistols are NOT mentioned on p.36. Nor are they mentioned on p.53.

ender502

**Alpharius**

Eleven pages and counting...

You guys can at least see that you're never going to agree, right?

**ender502**

Posted By Alpharius on 08/17/2007 11:19 AM
Eleven pages and counting...

You guys can at least see that you're never going to agree, right?

Not my fault he won't admit he is wrong.

ender502

**DaIronGob**

Not my fault he won't admit he is wrong.
ender502

I bet someone sigs that.

**skyth**

Posted By ender502 on 08/17/2007 7:03 AM

Posted By skyth on 08/17/2007 5:16 AM
Right, but they are mentioned on page 36 with the caveat that units that can move and fire heavies can assault after firing.

Wrong, pistols are NOT mentioned on p.36. Nor are they mentioned on p.53.

ender502

*cough* Page 36 BGB

'An infantry unit that fired twice with pistols or which shot with rapid fire weapons or remained stationary to fire heavy weapons may not charge at all in the Assault phase.

Note: Some rare units always count as stationary when firing rapid fire wapons and some units can move and fire heavy weapons. Such units can charge after firing'

Clear linkage between double-tapping pistols preventing you from assaulting and units that can move and fire heavy weapons being able to assault after firing.

All on page 36, which as a matter of fact DOES mention pistols.

I believe it's you that needs to admit that you were wrong.

**Ozymandias**

Except that pistols aren't mentioned in the "Note:..." So while I agree that there should be clear linkage between counts as stationary and pistols.,RAW doesn't support that. Blame crappy GW rules...

BTW, Yak's FAQ covers this issue in RB.36B.01 as a "rules change." Obviously, if it is a "rules change" then the current rules don't support pistols firing twice if the model "counts as stationary."

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**ender502**

My apologies, I thought you were referring to the note alone.

The p.36 note does not enunciate a rule. It is mearly a note about exceptions that may or may not apply to specific units.

ender502

Hey abbott! Third base

**skyth**

Posted By Ozymandias on 08/17/2007 6:26 PM
Except that pistols aren't mentioned in the "Note:..." So while I agree that there should be clear linkage between counts as stationary and pistols.,RAW doesn't support that. Blame crappy GW rules...

BTW, Yak's FAQ covers this issue in RB.36B.01 as a "rules change." Obviously, if it is a "rules change" then the current rules don't support pistols firing twice if the model "counts as stationary."

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Raw supports firing anything (including ordnance) allows you to assault if you meet one of the two conditions. YakFAQ has a rules change because it limits it to the weapon you count as stationary or lower (So count as stationary for RF weapons means you can't assault after firing heavies).

**HPratt**

Interesting. This has continued for 12 pages and I do not recaqll anyone pointing out that the RAW situation is nearly identical to that for rapid fire weapons. In the RF rule it says that models carrying RF weapons may not shoot and charge. Because the rule does not specify the weapon to be shot, the RAW viewpoint is that all weapons are included.

Here we have a rule about units that can move and fire heavy and rapid fire weapons. Such units may assault after firing. The rule does not specify what weapon may be fired before the charge. To maintain consistency, one must agree that all weapons are included. "Who says A must say B," as the old saying goes.

**Mr. Bombadidaloo**

Posted By HPratt on 08/20/2007 7:28 PM
Interesting. This has continued for 12 pages and I do not recaqll anyone pointing out that the RAW situation is nearly identical to that for rapid fire weapons. In the RF rule it says that models carrying RF weapons may not shoot and charge. Because the rule does not specify the weapon to be shot, the RAW viewpoint is that all weapons are included.

Here we have a rule about units that can move and fire heavy and rapid fire weapons. Such units may assault after firing. The rule does not specify what weapon may be fired before the charge. To maintain consistency, one must agree that all weapons are included. "Who says A must say B," as the old saying goes.

You, sir, may have saved the day.

*golf clap*

**don_mondo**

Posted By HPratt on 08/20/2007 7:28 PM
Interesting. This has continued for 12 pages and I do not recaqll anyone pointing out that the RAW situation is nearly identical to that for rapid fire weapons. In the RF rule it says that models carrying RF weapons may not shoot and charge. Because the rule does not specify the weapon to be shot, the RAW viewpoint is that all weapons are included.

Here we have a rule about units that can move and fire heavy and rapid fire weapons. Such units may assault after firing. The rule does not specify what weapon may be fired before the charge. To maintain consistency, one must agree that all weapons are included. "Who says A must say B," as the old saying goes.

Course, page 36 changes the Rapid Fire restriction to those who shoot with RF weapons may not assault, not those who carry them. So which do we use, the weapon description or the assault rules?