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Perhaps try painting the figures normally then applying a lighting effect, I think that would convey the look you're after. Victoria Lamb is the master of this, here's a tutorial by her: http://www.victorialamb.com/wugs/Joan%20gallery/pages/tutorial%20joan.htm

Hope that helps.

ph34r wrote:The official model is a cyborg servitor with heavy bionics, a different suit, etc. Your "servitors" are guardsmen with heavy bolters instead of arms. So, no they are not really the same.

Pick an excuse, run with it. No hard feelings!

I said I don't like the official model.

Thus I'm not interested in making my model look exactly like the GW model--what's the point?

My "servitors" are guardsmen with heavy bolters instead of arms, just like the official model. That's about it.

I don't want bionic troops in my army, that isn't my fluff. I don't want them in a different suit, because I have essentially 3 kinds of bodies in my army.

It's an inquisitors privately recruited death world army.

If I wanted the official model, I'd have just bought them.

MagickalMemories wrote:Well... Both, actually. I'm one of those who is NOT a Pig Iron fan.

In that instance, though, I was referring to the paint scheme. I'm in the "looks like an orange blob" group (though that is a bit more blunt than I'd say it LOL). It's the highlighting, I think. IMO, You were too heavy on the highlights to begin with, and there isn't enough drastic difference between the colors, which hides your changes from one color to the next. Lastly, the way you painted them... as if the hottest part was inside of them, rather than the ground they're emerging from... made them just look "off." I think highlighting from the bottom upwards will give you a better feel of what you're trying to accomplish with their fluff.

Eric

Oh it certainly does look blobby. It was a test. I need to try again, with how I am going to do it more clearly defined (for me).

Yes, it does have a magma armor look. Not quite what I wanted. I hope to have time tonight.

Stjohn and I were hanging out last night while he tortured himself, so I didn't have the inclination to paint.

Greebynog wrote:Perhaps try painting the figures normally then applying a lighting effect, I think that would convey the look you're after. Victoria Lamb is the master of this, here's a tutorial by her: http://www.victorialamb.com/wugs/Joan%20gallery/pages/tutorial%20joan.htm

Hope that helps.

It does. I thought about it, but I really don't want to do it that way.

FWIW my hands are in pretty bad shape right now, so I have to minimize the kind of painting I do if I am to manage any at all.

So a quickie paintjob on a old painted IG model I had lying around.

Commentary please.

Well nice to know people care...a few people asked me what was wrong with my hands.

I intentionally made it not an inline image, but if you really wanna see, here ya go. Toss in arthritis, tendonitis, and carpal tunnel and woo it's fun doing things with minis.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/downloadAttach/5748.page

That is my main hand for I am right handed.

Youch, dude - should I ask how you did that? I feel your pain - I used to rock climb a lot when I was in the prime of my 40k painting years. Bad combination.

BTW, like the new paint job much better - vast improvement. I'm almost of a mind though, that the cloth part of the guard uniform should look like it does, but then do the armor plates, helmet, and lasgun in a scorched metal (like Virulent's Bloodcrushers here - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/213041.page)

Stress, according to my skin doc. lol

Hmmm....skorched armor. Gonna be a pita to do.

I wonder how he got that color? Looks like a brown with burnt umber blended into it?

I'd say scorched brown up to bestial, then glaze with tin bitz or dwarf bronze. Might be worth a try on a test fig.

Stelek wrote:So a quickie paintjob on a old painted IG model I had lying around.

Commentary please.

So, first off, condolences on the hands.
I'd go crazy without my hands or eyes. Just crazy.

Now, to touch on the model.

When I first saw it, my impression was, "Wow. that's a LOT better." That was my exact thought. I'm more analytical than emotional, though, so I started studying it to see what I could offer.

Your technique is SO close. It's almost there. I have a couple functional problems with it, though, that I want to address.
Your black is well done. However you did it, keep it up. maybe refine it a LITTLE, but don't change the technique TOO much.
Your feet don't match your base. if the feet are going to be yellow, then the lava they are DIRECTLY touching should be yellow, too. Since you're trying to make them look like they're rising from the lava, whatever color the feet are touching should be the color you start with.
For shiggles (sh*ts and giggles), you should vary it, with some starting yellow & some orange. I'd mix in a few that are almost all black.

You shouldn't go from yellow to black on the legs, then atart at yellow again at the waist. That section will be colder than the legs, so should be more orange. I am going to break your model in half at the waist for critiquing purposes since, basically, you've painted 2 models.

Model #1 is feet to waist. Model #2 is waist to head.

Yellow: Far better at the waist than feet. There's too much yellow at the feet, IMO, and it almost looks like it's basic yellow with no highlighting. Round 1 goes to "Model 2."

Orange to black transition is better on the legs than the torso. There's too much "dark" orange on the back for me. Too much red (or near-red) for me on the torso, as well. Round 2 goes to "Model 1."

The black is very interesting. There are places on both that I like more than the places on the other. Neither looks BAD, but neither really astounds me. Both are "good," but will get no short amount of comments like, "Well, it's good, but it would be better if..." I have to rate round 3 a tie.

That puts us in a dead heat.

The tie breaker goes back to the yellow.
When I look at the torso, I see a few dots of orance floating in the yellow, almost as if you're showing where the "cool down" process is. I like that.
On the feet, though, I see some orange near the bottom. This looks more like traditional shadowing and not like cooling lava.

Have to say the torso is a better half than the legs and BOTH HALVES are a FAR WAY closer to where I think you want to be. One or 2 more test models and I think you'll have the technique down.

As forthe base... don't care for the "hot" lava too much (Again, it's not BAD, but...). I do, however, think the blackened part looks REALLY good, the way you have the orange coming through.


Once you get the techniques down, you should post a tutorial article.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:So, first off, condolences on the hands.
I'd go crazy without my hands or eyes. Just crazy.

Thank you, and I agree...need hands and eyes. I want everything to keep working though!

MagickalMemories wrote:
Now, to touch on the model.

When I first saw it, my impression was, "Wow. that's a LOT better." That was my exact thought. I'm more analytical than emotional, though, so I started studying it to see what I could offer.

Good to hear.

MagickalMemories wrote:
Your technique is SO close. It's almost there. I have a couple functional problems with it, though, that I want to address.
Your black is well done. However you did it, keep it up. maybe refine it a LITTLE, but don't change the technique TOO much.
Your feet don't match your base. if the feet are going to be yellow, then the lava they are DIRECTLY touching should be yellow, too. Since you're trying to make them look like they're rising from the lava, whatever color the feet are touching should be the color you start with.
For shiggles (sh*ts and giggles), you should vary it, with some starting yellow & some orange. I'd mix in a few that are almost all black.

Good point on the colors should match on the base. I totally was thinking I should make it a different color to get a contrast going. I will try making it one color on the feet.

Variation is also a good thing.

MagickalMemories wrote:
You shouldn't go from yellow to black on the legs, then atart at yellow again at the waist. That section will be colder than the legs, so should be more orange. I am going to break your model in half at the waist for critiquing purposes since, basically, you've painted 2 models.

Model #1 is feet to waist. Model #2 is waist to head.

Yes, I did. I used different brushes for the yellow and orange on top and bottom, and I drybrushed a very very slight orange blend into the yellow around the middle.

MagickalMemories wrote:
Yellow: Far better at the waist than feet. There's too much yellow at the feet, IMO, and it almost looks like it's basic yellow with no highlighting. Round 1 goes to "Model 2."

Orange to black transition is better on the legs than the torso. There's too much "dark" orange on the back for me. Too much red (or near-red) for me on the torso, as well. Round 2 goes to "Model 1."

The black is very interesting. There are places on both that I like more than the places on the other. Neither looks BAD, but neither really astounds me. Both are "good," but will get no short amount of comments like, "Well, it's good, but it would be better if..." I have to rate round 3 a tie.

That puts us in a dead heat.

The legs are easier to drybrush less on, the torso harder to. Using different brushes didn't help, but it was an experiment.

MagickalMemories wrote:
The tie breaker goes back to the yellow.

When I look at the torso, I see a few dots of orance floating in the yellow, almost as if you're showing where the "cool down" process is. I like that.

Yeah, that was that very subtle blend of orange in. I was not consciously going for that effect, but it came out well so I will try to repeat it.

MagickalMemories wrote:On the feet, though, I see some orange near the bottom. This looks more like traditional shadowing and not like cooling lava.

For the orange at the bottom I intentionally left a band I did not drybrush anything on, just to see how it would come out. On the torso, I came much closer to the edge of the orange and did a little wet blending.

MagickalMemories wrote:
Have to say the torso is a better half than the legs and BOTH HALVES are a FAR WAY closer to where I think you want to be. One or 2 more test models and I think you'll have the technique down.

I will try some more tomorrow.

MagickalMemories wrote:As for the base... don't care for the "hot" lava too much (Again, it's not BAD, but...). I do, however, think the blackened part looks REALLY good, the way you have the orange coming through.

I think making streams of lava doesn't work, but pools of lava around the feet and alot of black lava...might do the trick.

MagickalMemories wrote:Once you get the techniques down, you should post a tutorial article.

I will endeavor to do that as well. G-d knows I've had one heck of a time getting a tutorial on the internet that wasn't "this is all you do, and voila you are done"...none of which were really helpful. The pictures in them guided my thoughts more than the step by step, they were weren't written in a way I could really grasp.

Stelek wrote:Stress, according to my skin doc. lol

Hmmm....skorched armor. Gonna be a pita to do.

I wonder how he got that color? Looks like a brown with burnt umber blended into it?

This is how he described the process:

Virulent wrote:Tin Bitz basecoat
4:1 Water : VGC Cobra Leather
4:1 Water : VMC German Camo Black Brown
4:1 Water : VMC German Camo Black Brown w/ small amount of black
2:1 Water : Boltgun Metal
2:1 water : chainmail

Then just layer layer layer!

So, for a few big bloodcrushers - a very nice effect - for doing it on an army full of small armor plates and helmets - yeah, total pita.

Great, with hands like that I could see a hiatus from painting coming on. Good luck finding a cure!

As far as the paint, what I am reading here is telling me that you are looking for the heat and lava effects to be coming through the exterior paint through the cracks and crevices. I have two brief suggestions that you may want to throw in, or throw out.

1. paint the model from "hot lava" colors near the feet to "cooler lava" near the head. Then, drybrush a regular paint job (somehting that looks like an inquisitors personal army to you) on top of that, so that the cracks and creases would be all lit up. This would of course produce a model that looks lit up from the inside, like and avatar or something.

2. throw a paint job on them (somehting that looks like an inquisitors personal army to you), then start using washes to get the "lit from within" look. Use "hotter colors" near the feet, and "cooler colors" as you go up. Blend as needed.

Now, I think I may be having a slightly differnt vision for what you are describing. What I am reading is that you have an =I= army that just happens to be fighiting on the Episode 3(?) mining world. To me, this does not conjure images of models lit from within (my wife is obsessed with that concept, just as a random aside. she thinks the balrog was one of the baddest ass models she's ever seen). I am envisioning the =I= models as having just a paint job. Something that reflects their =I= heritage, servitude, whatever. Metallic armour on the sisters, maybe some kinda camo pattern on th IG. "Standard" stuff. Where I am seeing the lava coming into the picture is in the lightsourcing. They walk on lava. Lava can be very bright. Effectively, they are walking on their lightsource, which is shining up from under them, and they should be highlighted accordingly. Again, hotter colors closer to the feet, cooler colors working your way up. You see a lot of Warmachine models done this way, but usu. the lightsource is some kinda glowy thing the model is holding (torch, magic device, whatever).

Highlighting a model from the bottom up could produce some really spooky effects, kinda like holding a flashlight under your chin and making faces.

I dunno if any of this applies to what you are trying to do, or if I just wasted 2 minutes of your life "making" you read another useless post, however at the very least trying to look at this in my head has motivated me to try some new stuff when I get home. The lit from within concept could work very well for a Tzeentch power armour army, perhaps. Anyway, good luck!

I can't hiatus from painting, really. I will today, and hope my hand heals soon. I have some Clobex, it's helping some. I'll bag balm over the weekend nights and see if that heals it up.

I like your paint suggestions.

Yes, I have the Balrog obsession too.

I was originally planning to do the models in a regular paint job and do a light source, but then I reimagined the whole thing as an army that can (somehow) survive in the lava then rise up out of it to give you some love.

lol besides that, the lightsourcing IS a good idea, I just don't think I can do it with my hands the way they are. drybrushing is about all I can manage to do properly.

You can achieve a basic light source effect by just drybrushing in one direction, going away from the light source (in your case brushing upwards). Might be worth a shot if your hands are all that's stopping you.

Problem is getting the regular paint job done in order to light source it.

It looks to me like your problem is the yellow. It is way to light/white.

Are you using bad moon yellow of lemon yellow and adding white to it?

What you want in a much richer, and deeper tone by using golden yellow.

I admire you for continuing to paint. I've been painting for over 30 years now, and I can't reproduce the work I did 20 years ago. Its embarrassing.

Not to muck everything up, but I wondered if you had watched the National Geographic Special on volcanoes, and the husband and wife team that got too close?

The reason for mentioning this, is that vulcanologists often wear a reflective suit when working near running lava. Seems to me it would be di rigure (sp?) clothing for an active volcano death world! Don't know how you would do it. Has anyone ever figured out a way to get a mirror finish on 28mm figures?? Or, you could do NMM up to silver, with threads of yellow, red and black to represent reflected light from the lava......

Great theme by the way. Given your troops volcanic experience, St.John's Immolators won't stand a chance....

@Blackmoor: Hmmm yes the yellow is golden yellow. I have a yellow I am going to try, and then I'll go buy a different yellow. It does seem too bright over the white undercoat.

@mikeguth: Gotta keep trying! Sometimes I paint bad, sometimes well. If you don't stop, you can keep churning out decent stuff.

Hmmm too close to a volcano...dead?

Yes, mirror finish is possible. I would pay someone to do it before I gave it even one try myself. I know better! lol

It is a good suggestion, it's just beyond the scope of this project.

I stopped a land raider/GK spam army today (and 24 Sisters were Martyrs to the cause) but it was a draw as the last GK on the board was in a LR I couldn't stop from contesting my objective. lol

Blackmoor wrote:It looks to me like your problem is the yellow. It is way to light/white.

Are you using bad moon yellow of lemon yellow and adding white to it?

What you want in a much richer, and deeper tone by using golden yellow.

I think you're on to something.
His yellow is too "plain" yellow an not orange enough.

Eric

stelek: OT I know, but can you tell us a little more about that battle with GK? they still over-pointed?

grizgrin wrote:stelek: OT I know, but can you tell us a little more about that battle with GK? they still over-pointed?

I put more info on my blog. I'd say they are but not by much.

Interesting idea. I have to agree with the comments regarding the yellow. It looks like bad moon yellow (cold) and something like golden yellow should work better for the lava/magma effect.

The new test miniature makes the effect look more realistic. What you could try is to use a stippling technique instead of direct dry-brushing. It tends to work better (than dry-brushing) if you want a rough texture on flat surfaces. The process is nearly identical, except that it works better with a roundish brush instead of a flat one and you touch the miniature lightly before you raiser your brush again (instead of hitting against the edges like in dry-brushing).

Your "pattern" seems random. You could leave areas brighter (yellow and orange) where movement happens (joints, areas where the armour scrapes against the underlying surface, weapon parts that hit enemies (close combat weapons) or that move (chain-sword, guns)) and faces (as a focus point) and keep the rest black with this reddish glow underneath. That could look a bit as if the cooled down pieces are separating and falling off these areas. That is if you are looking for this type of effect.

sorry but the paint scheme realy doesnt do it for me :( they look like lava men :S

Lava bases sound like a cool (sic) idea for Salamanders, and power armoured roops in general but IMHO it is stretching the imagination too much to have guard standing on lava.

@ orlanth: Well they are rising out of lava...so it's worse than you think! lol However, if Rambo guard can live on death worlds with 50 foot lizards and 25 foot high man-eating plants...I can survive in lava.

@ corpsesarefun (weirdo, what kinda screen name is that anyway lol): Looking like Lava men isn't exactly what I want. I'm resting my hands this weekend, hoping they heal up so I can paint some more this week.

@ Mario: I have though about stippling, not sure if I can do it holding my brush between my ring finger and my thumb. lol I might give it a whirl, but stippling is really destructive on my hands from previous experience. I think swapping paint techniques at this stage isn't such a good idea. If I can't get it done with drybrushing, I can give it a whirl...but I think I can get it done with a little more training on some test figs.

I like your idea, lighting affects can really make a model pop. That said, I think you may want to take a different approach to it.

What I would do is:

1) paint the model normally, complete with all the minute details. (i.e. no lighting effects)
2) add the lighting effects by using very very thin layers of paint. Thin layers of paint are your friends and will give you a better overall effect.

I like the concept alot and the crusted lava look is done very well kudos for you on that. However, the yellow you have just isn't the right shade it is too bland, you need a brighter yellow to make the effect work IMHO. I feel your pain too Yellow is a bitch to get it to come out right. =/

Zhetsuken wrote:I like the concept alot and the crusted lava look is done very well kudos for you on that. However, the yellow you have just isn't the right shade it is too bland, you need a brighter yellow to make the effect work IMHO. I feel your pain too Yellow is a bitch to get it to come out right. =/

undercoating and fading from bubonic brown (looks similar to baby poop) to a yellow can help give a richer yellow color. This technique is also used to make a non metallic gold.

Here's the army with the yellow done over the white.





Here it is with orange over about 80% of the model.



Here are two shots with the bright red banding done from upper thigh to lower body area, from bottom to up (stroke wise).





Here's the army with the dark red done on the upper half of the model, from top to middle (stroke wise).



Here's a closeup. Note none of the bases or touchups or indeed the final black drybrush has been done yet.