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sonofruss wrote:I could see them nixing jump packs and using bikes and scout bikes. space wolves fight on the ground like russ intended.

Every time someone mentions this a Space Wolf is neutered.

We are seeing a major shift back towards second edition so I see them dropping the two ridiculous 3rd edition fluff notes about not using Jump Packs or Teleportation. Both were hallmarks of the Wolves before this last codex. I hope to see reasonably costing Blood Claws with jump packs in the new book. Then I can paint me up a squad or two.

I am also looking forward to Grey Hunters and Long Fangs having Bolter, Pistol, CCW and Grenades. Long Fangs could swap their Bolter for the Heavy Weapons, but still be able to fight with pistol and chainsword on the move or in counter assault. Still no counter charge due to aching bones. Split fire will probably go away.

I think we will have a better idea about the fate of our beloved Exterminators based on the upcoming IG codex. If they make a return we might get to keep one or more Russ variants. If it is not in there we lose it for sure. While not the same I would be happy with a modified Destructor with dual autocannons. Make it a bit on the accessory sprue.

Wolf Guard are the veterans of the Space Wolves so they are the Veteran Sergeants, Vanguard, Sternguard, Honor Guard, Command Squad, and Terminators all rolled into one. I don't want to see most of the new kit from the Space Marine codex in there. Maybe the Land Speeder Storm and Redeemer. And we would have Relic Axes.

The FAQ is here. If the link does not work look under Gaming, and the last item on the list is for FAQs. Follow the next few screens and you can see the FAQs for all three systems.

All of this is IMHO and I have no special knowledge about any upcoming GW product.

making Long Fangs a squad of 6 would be an improvement. Other than that, I look forward to the new codex with anticipation. Speaking of "Relic Axes," Wolf Guard should get Frost Blades for the same price as everyone else gets Power Weapons. Just because.

victorpofa wrote:

sonofruss wrote:I could see them nixing jump packs and using bikes and scout bikes. space wolves fight on the ground like russ intended.

We are seeing a major shift back towards second edition so I see them dropping the two ridiculous 3rd edition fluff notes about not using Jump Packs or Teleportation. Both were hallmarks of the Wolves before this last codex. I hope to see reasonably costing Blood Claws with jump packs in the new book.

I dunno... I think we're seeing a return of the 2E restrictions (10-man Combat Squads), but I wouldn't expect any of the newer 3E thematic limitations to go away. For example, in 2E, BA were supposed to be strong adherents of the Codex Astartes. So I'd expect SW to be denied JPs and Teleportation except at punitive costs / availability. If the SW BC had good JP access, that would tread on the BA's specialty. It'll be interesting to see how the new Codex shakes out.

I have been playing space wolves since 2nd ed. I still think nixing the jump pack for bikes fits the fluff a lot more than jump packs do. You should read some of the old fluff from the original codex. It didn't say any thing about jp's they used a drop pod, oh and ragnar shoved a krack grenade in a screamer killer's mouth splatterd bug ewww

Is this a download from GW? Link?

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Got to talk to a reliable staffer today further about the codex.

He knew nothing about it HOWEVER he was saying it was probably the new SW FAQ to be released.

He assured me the new drop pod rules are in it as well as other stuff to bring the SWs in line with the new SM codex.

Now I've spent the last half hour on the annoying GW website and cannot find a SW FAQ anywhere.

Huh? All I saw was the same SW FAQ that has been on the US website for over a month now (since the new SW Codex came out).

JohnHwangDD wrote:

victorpofa wrote:

sonofruss wrote:I could see them nixing jump packs and using bikes and scout bikes. space wolves fight on the ground like russ intended.

We are seeing a major shift back towards second edition so I see them dropping the two ridiculous 3rd edition fluff notes about not using Jump Packs or Teleportation. Both were hallmarks of the Wolves before this last codex. I hope to see reasonably costing Blood Claws with jump packs in the new book.

I dunno... I think we're seeing a return of the 2E restrictions (10-man Combat Squads), but I wouldn't expect any of the newer 3E thematic limitations to go away. For example, in 2E, BA were supposed to be strong adherents of the Codex Astartes. So I'd expect SW to be denied JPs and Teleportation except at punitive costs / availability. If the SW BC had good JP access, that would tread on the BA's specialty. It'll be interesting to see how the new Codex shakes out.

Well, I agree that JP choices should be limmited as they are now in SW codex: only BC and thier pack leaders get them. However, the points do need to drop inorder to bring them in line with current standards and make them a viable option in a codex.

Given that Blood Angels can take JP as elites, HQ, and troops, I don't think solely reducing the points for BC JP in line would infringe on BA specialty.

I'm curious to know the sentiments of people around here on whether SW should get any of the new toys in the SM. There's been a bit of talk about trade off units between the two codices, but the conversation hasn't been front and center too much.

Certain things could "fit" the SW's but how much is really appropriate or fair for a non-codex chapter? How many of these can really be "lost" in exchange for the uniquely SW units?
-Chapter Master
-Honor Guard
-Sternguard
-Vanguard
-LS Storm
-Thunderfire
-Land Raider Variants
(did I forget anything?)

The first two to me seem easily unneccesary with a special character and wolfguard already filling those roles or playing double duty.

Also I think for once having the scouts "pumped up" and in the Elite FOC migh actually be appropriate, unlike other codices.

aka_mythos wrote:How many of these can really be "lost" in exchange for the uniquely SW units?
-Chapter Master

Logan Grimnar is the Chapter Master of the Space Wolves. A special character replaces this unit just fine.

-Honor Guard
-Sternguard
-Vanguard

These (along with terminators) can all be rolled into a Wolfguard unit entry.

-LS Storm
-Thunderfire
-Land Raider Variants

I don't see any reason that the SW shouldn't have these.

Also I think for once having the scouts "pumped up" and in the Elite FOC migh actually be appropriate, unlike other codices.

They really ARE elite, fluff-wise. I have no objection.

I think if all three of those squads are replaced by wolfguard, the wolfguard units probably going to get a big upgrade in the next codex. One reason I'm inclined to believ wulfen will make it into the codex is so that the wolfguard unit doesn't have to be buffed so much as to replace three units, maybe just two.

By not having all the same vehicle options, it seems it opens them up to getting a unique vehicle. Is there any fluffish precedent for anything other than a Leman Russ?

Pariah Press wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:How many of these can really be "lost" in exchange for the uniquely SW units?
-Chapter Master

Logan Grimnar is the Chapter Master of the Space Wolves. A special character replaces this unit just fine.

I would think that the Chapter Master would either be replaced by the SC Logan or the entire entry would be replaced by a divergent Wolf Lord entry. Of all of the new SM toys, I doubt you would see a "acts like" SM Chapter Master.

-Honor Guard
-Sternguard
-Vanguard

These (along with terminators) can all be rolled into a Wolfguard unit entry.

I could see WG filling the Honor Guard and Terminator roles as is currently the case. Current fluffwise, I don't see the SW getting Vanguard as JP are typically allocated to BC who are assigned the assault roles, where as older SW tend to adhore JP. Personally, I doubt SW would get stearnguard (my opinion only) but if they did then either WG or LF (as was previously suggested) could be given this ability.

-LS Storm
-Thunderfire
-Land Raider Variants

I don't see any reason that the SW shouldn't have these.

Nor do I, the LR varients fit thier current fighting tactics better than the LR (15 man blood claws, 8 man terminator squads, ect).

Also I think for once having the scouts "pumped up" and in the Elite FOC migh actually be appropriate, unlike other codices.

They really ARE elite, fluff-wise. I have no objection.

Agreed, though it would be nice to have 3 troop options.

wyomingfox wrote:Nor do I, the LR varients fit thier current fighting tactics better than the LR (15 man blood claws, 8 man terminator squads, ect).

It is said you can't have your cake and eat it too. Both at a risk of losing distinctiveness and at becoming suprerior to all other marines in terms of the number of options somethings should be kept out of the SW codex.

The fluff has always dictated that its the price of deviating from the Codex Astartes. You either play ball or you're cut off from the best Forgeworlds. In this case the SW choose to honor their own traditions over the dictates of Guilliman.

From a game balance stand point, GW doesn't want SW's to have all their own advantages on top of the advantages of the main space marine codex.

In both instances, these are the same sort of reasons the core marine codex does not have long fangs or wolf guard or any of the other SW units. So if you can live without all SM getting all the SW units by different names you should be able to stand the inverse. Otherwise their is no real reason to have separate codices at all.

Also I want to time out here and say does the landraider follow any chapters "fighting tactics?" Few chapters are so exclusively shooty as to only use stock landraiders and not the more assault orriented variants, so I don't think its a matter of LR variants suiting their fighting tactics as it is a matter of LR variants suiting the common tactics of the rule set and predisposition of many armies to those tactics.

aka_mythos wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:Nor do I, the LR varients fit thier current fighting tactics better than the LR (15 man blood claws, 8 man terminator squads, ect).

It is said you can't have your cake and eat it too. Both at a risk of losing distinctiveness and at becoming suprerior to all other marines in terms of the number of options somethings should be kept out of the SW codex.

The fluff has always dictated that its the price of deviating from the Codex Astartes. You either play ball or you're cut off from the best Forgeworlds. In this case the SW choose to honor their own traditions over the dictates of Guilliman.

From a game balance stand point, GW doesn't want SW's to have all their own advantages on top of the advantages of the main space marine codex.

In both instances, these are the same sort of reasons the core marine codex does not have long fangs or wolf guard or any of the other SW units. So if you can live without all SM getting all the SW units by different names you should be able to stand the inverse. Otherwise their is no real reason to have separate codices at all.

Also I want to time out here and say does the landraider follow any chapters "fighting tactics?" Few chapters are so exclusively shooty as to only use stock landraiders and not the more assault orriented variants, so I don't think its a matter of LR variants suiting their fighting tactics as it is a matter of LR variants suiting the common tactics of the rule set and predisposition of many armies to those tactics.

You mean like how GW gave DH True Grit, all SM get Venerable Dreads (OK they don't get the reroll on who goes first), SM Tech Priests get servitors (better servitors), and all 40K units get 3rd edition counter attack. SM Honor Guard might as well be WG with all the abundance of cheap wargear and wargear options they get (which was suppose to be the hall mark of the WG) and honor guard are cheaper. So yeah, SM have alot of SW units and abilities. Or how about how SM got unlimmited access to Crusaders (which prior to this was limmited to 1 per army).

Also, fluff wise, LR varients do follow the combat tactics of the chapter, with the supossed majority of crusaders being wielded by the Black Templars as it fits thier fighting style better (which was why prior to 5th, only templars could have more than 1). Lastly, SW, being one of the 1st founding chapters has plenty of access to forge worlds, infact they have access to Garm, one of the largest forge worlds.

Plus if GW gives SW the crusader and or redeamer, it means SW players will go out and buy these models.

If the SW get the BT-thematic Crusader, what makes them different from BT, and vice-versa?

Fur and wolf skulls instead of tabards and chains?

BT mix scouts in their troop SM squad vs SW scouts are elite scouting types

SW get heavy weapon squads, Rune Priests, Acute senses, counter attack, large numbers of power weapons on troops and whirlwinds. BT get nothing like them.

BT run forward when shot and have vows that do all kinds of wierd sillyness. They are also cheaper per model.

wyomingfox wrote:
Plus if GW gives SW the crusader and or redeamer, it means SW players will go out and buy these models.

Which is why Space Wolves WILL have access to them, along with most of (if not all) the new plastic models.

They'll get Terminator access to Drop Pods 'back' as well.

wyomingfox wrote:
You mean like how GW gave DH True Grit, all SM get Venerable Dreads (OK they don't get the reroll on who goes first), SM Tech Priests get servitors (better servitors), and all 40K units get 3rd edition counter attack. SM Honor Guard might as well be WG with all the abundance of cheap wargear and wargear options they get (which was suppose to be the hall mark of the WG) and honor guard are cheaper. So yeah, SM have alot of SW units and abilities. Or how about how SM got unlimmited access to Crusaders (which prior to this was limmited to 1 per army).

DH are suppose to be even more elite than SW, and they do specialize in something different with distinctly different equipment. SM venerable dreadnoughts, is suppose to be a fancy way of saying it has alot of experiance, its one thing to say we don't have "X" because we can't get them and its another thing to expect other marine chapters to maintain dreadnougts to a point where they would be older and wiser than the average dreadnought (look at Iron hands, some of their leaders are dreadnoughts). Honor guard existed in the previous book as Marneus Calgars special squad, there would be a bit of overlap in that regard, but I do think wolfguard will get their own distinctive advantages. Codex SM represents close to 950 chapters, Codex SW's represents ONE chapter and indirectly upto 20 succesors, there is alot more variations between those 950 to the SW's 21 or so.

Given the choice of having scraps from the SM codex or having equally good and distinctively SW units that are just as good, which would you take? You're justified only in comparison of the near decade old codex to the current released few months back codex. Do you stop and think "if they did that to SM what will they do to SW?" instead of "I want what they have."

wyomingfox wrote:
Also, fluff wise, LR varients do follow the combat tactics of the chapter, with the supossed majority of crusaders being wielded by the Black Templars as it fits thier fighting style better (which was why prior to 5th, only templars could have more than 1). Lastly, SW, being one of the 1st founding chapters has plenty of access to forge worlds, infact they have access to Garm, one of the largest forge worlds.

Yeah... somewhere along the way mars must have with held the STC for redeemers and crusaders from Garm, knowing they would share the technology with the SW's who don't follow the Codex Astartes.

wyomingfox wrote:
Plus if GW gives SW the crusader and or redeamer, it means SW players will go out and buy these models.

The same can be said of any model: if GW gave SW bright yellow pogo-sticks of doom, SW player will go out and buy these models. Or even leman russ battle tanks for that matter.

Alpharius wrote:They'll get Terminator access to Drop Pods 'back' as well.

Just to clarify, you do realize they never lost it right? Currently an IC and Wolf Guard Bodyguard squad in TDA can use a drop pod.

edited for grammar train wreck.

I do!

What I meant was they'll get it "back" as 'regular' SM Terminators have lost it.

Sorry for the confusion!

(I know what I meant, but, well...)

aka_mythos wrote:
DH are suppose to be even more elite than SW, and they do specialize in something different with distinctly different equipment. SM venerable dreadnoughts, is suppose to be a fancy way of saying it has alot of experiance, its one thing to say we don't have "X" because we can't get them and its another thing to expect other marine chapters to maintain dreadnougts to a point where they would be older and wiser than the average dreadnought (look at Iron hands, some of their leaders are dreadnoughts). Honor guard existed in the previous book as Marneus Calgars special squad, there would be a bit of overlap in that regard, but I do think wolfguard will get their own distinctive advantages. Codex SM represents close to 950 chapters, Codex SW's represents ONE chapter and indirectly upto 20 succesors, there is alot more variations between those 950 to the SW's 21 or so.

Yeah, they still gave a bunch of our unique SW abilities to everyone else

Given the choice of having scraps from the SM codex or having equally good and distinctively SW units that are just as good, which would you take? You're justified only in comparison of the near decade old codex to the current released few months back codex. Do you stop and think "if they did that to SM what will they do to SW?" instead of "I want what they have."

No, I am saying that SW should keep thier token LRC (1 per army) which they have had since the model came out. My post said that I doubt we would get Vanguard as they are unfluffy and that I doubt we would get stearn guard.

Yeah... somewhere along the way mars must have with held the STC for redeemers and crusaders from Garm, knowing they would share the technology with the SW's who don't follow the Codex Astartes.

I never see that in the fluff?

The same can be said of any model: if GW gave SW bright yellow pogo-sticks of doom, SW player will go out and buy these models. Or even leman russ battle tanks for that matter.

BUT I WANT THE BRIGHT YELLOW POGO-STICKS OF DEATH

JohnHwangDD wrote:If the SW get the BT-thematic Crusader, what makes them different from BT, and vice-versa?

I am arguing that SW should get their token 1 LRC and complaining that Smurfs get 3+.

Who plays with the current LR exterminator?

Blood Claws with Jump Packs are not stepping on Blood Angel Toes because they are Fast Attack and BS/WS3. Just drop the points says I. I never meant let Grey Hunters use them.

As for the new toys I only want the speeder and Land Raider variants for the Wolves. Toss the rest as far as I am concerned.

Wolf Scouts in that Storm speeder sounds like fun.

I use the Exterminator, Wyomingfox.

Well I'm not opposed to SW having the land raider variants as much as I'm in favor of them getting unique and equally viable options in place of them. Like maybe their own Land Raider variant or a Leman Russ battle tank variant (something like a refinement of the design Leman Russ never shared with the IG)

Bright Yellow Pogo Stick of Doom: +20pts
Any model mounted on one moves as cavalry.
Recieves +1T, +1I, +1A
Crushing Blow: All attacks are made as if by a powerfist, using the models initiative.
Bouncing Target: Difficult to hit due to its unpredictable bounce, consider it to have a 4+ cover save.
Defeated by a Yellow Pogo Stick: Any model or unit that suffers a wound at the foot of the Bright Yellow Pogo Stick of Doom, must resolve all tests using a Ld -2, as they have been left morally defeated.

aka_mythos wrote:Well I'm not opposed to SW having the land raider variants as much as I'm in favor of them getting unique and equally viable options in place of them. Like maybe their own Land Raider variant or a Leman Russ battle tank variant (something like a refinement of the design Leman Russ never shared with the IG)

Bright Yellow Pogo Stick of Doom: +20pts
Any model mounted on one moves as cavalry.
Recieves +1T, +1I, +1A
Crushing Blow: All attacks are made as if by a powerfist, using the models initiative.
Bouncing Target: Difficult to hit do to it unpredictable bounce, consider it to have a 4+ cover save.
Defeated by a Yellow Pogo Stick: Any model or unit that suffers a wound at the foot of the Bright Yellow Pogo Stick of Doom, must resolve all tests using a Ld -2, as they have been left morally defeated.

I use the exterminator auto cannons rock

sonofruss wrote:I have been playing space wolves since 2nd ed. I still think nixing the jump pack for bikes fits the fluff a lot more than jump packs do. You should read some of the old fluff from the original codex. It didn't say any thing about jp's they used a drop pod, oh and ragnar shoved a krack grenade in a screamer killer's mouth splatterd bug ewww

Lol, you know your wrong. In that same story by Bill King from the 2nd ed Wolves dex the blood claws squad used jump packs. Go have another look.