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windswept313 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I love the part where he rings Neal while in the store and makes a Warstore order. Hilarious. I would have loved to have seen that. Very cool.

BYE

Heh yeah it was liberating.. and commended by a couple people in the store... I was able to tell my wife i bought something while at the GW store LOL

You are that ONE guy aren't you?

So on topic...?

My response has everything to do with store viability.. That ONE guy makes the store look (bad) because it lets jackasses in.. I blame the store for not escorting you outside.. Sorry you didn't like the response, but hey, you made the bed, now you gotta lie in it..

(edit) because I forgot a word

windswept313 wrote:Wow look as though my plight got some support. i apreciate it guys. Believe me i think my experience was lost in translation somewhat. Overall i think now that some people are discussing this without me means that maybe they understood what i really meant. There are so many other ways to get GW gear but ifelt almost compelled to take the kid in a candy store approach and try to enjoy the whole experience of going 70 miles to a GW store and finding the things i could not around home. Also enjoy the company of other players and talk shop with the locals.

That didnt turn out to be the case.

Thanks to all of you that have understood and offered support for the situation. Its appreciated.

Also i want to clear something up as well. The shop was 70 miles away not an hour but i drive fast sometimes. I was at the mall with my family for other shopping for the kids and wife and such... it was an added bonus that there is a GW store there. So i had something to look forward to for me to do. That turned out to be a waste of time. Thee is exactly 1 GW store within a 300 mile radius of where i ive and with such a distributed presence on the East Coast i only could assume they would stock a hell of a lot more than they did, especially for a Saturday afternoon.

Keep on digging, I hear Australia is nice this time of year.

So, it's the only GW Store for 300 miles, and assuming (I presume correctly) you are not the only gamer for 300 miles? What a surprise they might have been out of stock? Again, I make the following point. From what you've said, your disappointment appears to be a one off. So why fly off the handle? They can order stuff in store that is missing from the shelves. Same for FLGS. If they don't have it, they can get it. He offered you alternative ways to get what you were after, and you decided to play the jerk...

SO what was the point of said behaviour? Ego Inflating?

I'm not the best to comment on the viability of GW stores. I visited on in MD back in the early 90s and one in Melbourne Victoria in 2001 a few times. I've never lived in a state that has a GW store. I've always had to rely on mail order a local indy.

I'm also not the typical customer. I've learned to call ahead for most items, whether it be a FCW box set, or an Onkyo receiver. The last time I bought a GW item on an impulse was late 2nd edition. However, I have bought an entire army on more than one occasion.

If the purpose of a GW store is to bring in new players, it seems they are doing most of the right things. Most of the complaints I've read in this thread appear to come from veterans. As a veteran I am not attracted to a GW store.

As a veteran, I'd prefer to see a better relationship between indies and GW. One of the larger stores in my state sells GW product. I've overhead them complain about GW stocking requirements more than once.

It reminded me of having to place an order with GW and have a minimum order of 1 sleeve in order to receive anything. This was back in the early 90s when the only box sets were harlequins and the 15 marines with bolters. Everything else was in blisters.

It also harkens back to the crackdown on internet retailers a few years back. That wasn't exactly well received by veteran players either.

Ultimately, if the stores aren't viable, they'll close. I presume a better relationship with other retailers will arise out of those ashes. I've said before I think GW's future income will come from licensing its IP to other media such as video games, movies, and books. Those items aren't likely to be found in a GW store and would garner more money outside a company shop.

I went to my GW store recently, and I don't seem to have a problem. The staff are friendly, aren't those "Wanna buy stuff?" type of person, and the people there are generally nice.


of course, I could be insane.....

Apparently, mall rentals run around $25-$50/square foot. Assuming a hypothetical GW outlet of 200sqft (VERY SMALL!) at a very generous rent of $35/square foot equates to $7000/month. (GW's stores are usually located in high trafic malls, with likely rents of $40+/square foot)

Assuming that GW sells product at 50% markup over their base cost (which I suspect, grossly overestimates their production costs) - in order to be viable, this hypothetical GW store needs to sell $14000 worth of product per month in order to break even on rent alone.

Assuming (an oversimplification) that a typical GW staffer makes $8/hour - going by the hours kept by typical "high trafic" malls where GW stores are likely to be situated - 12 hour days, Monday to Saturday, and a 6 hour day on Sunday - this means that every staffer costs GW $624/week.

Going to a per/annum - that's 12x$7k/month for rent - or $84k/year - and $32448/year per single body staffing the store during operational hours.

As running a GW outlet with only one staffer is unrealistic from a retail point of view - we'll assume that each outlet runs with a barebones of 1.5 staffers (with the 0.5 staff helping at peak times)! So the store needs to clear $132672 per annum. Going with the previously mentioned 50% profit number, the store needs to sell an average of $5102.77 worth of product EACH week to break even. This equates a rate of roughly 2 regiment boxes every hour the store is open.

I have no idea what kind of sales a GW outlet generates... however, I can tell you with some certaintly that a lot of small FLGS are unable to generate this kind of daily sales. Based on (very favourable) numbers alone - I'd say that this kind of operation is unsustainable.

most GW stores run 4 staff. one manager and 3 redshirts.

as for rent, I imagine that GW had a 'rate' based on number of stores in those malls too, and it was probably negotiated quite a while a go and with the Mills Malls requiring updated rent negotiations, I'm sure GW knew that they couldn't survive in a mall that requested those amounts of money..

Of course, that said, I doubt we will get anyone from GW to come on and verify any of this, so it's just speculation at best and heresay at the very worst.

two_heads_talking wrote:most GW stores run 4 staff. one manager and 3 redshirts. Of course, that said, I doubt we will get anyone from GW to come on and verify any of this, so it's just speculation at best and heresay at the very worst.

Oh. I totally agree... which is why I tried to use a conservative hypothetical case - a tiny store with a tiny staff as my hypothetical case... With 3 redshirts and 1 manager (assuming the blackshirt is worth 1.5 redshirts) - this puts the staffing costs at $146016 based on the above over-generalized case. That translates to needing to clear $5616/week assuming that rent is FREE... which it is not. On top of that, a 200 sqft GW is ridiculously tiny. I am guessing that most outlets are at least 300 sqft or better.

I should qualify my previous statement though - maybe they performing admirably in increasing brand visibilty and attracting customers. However, I would suspect that they are typically not viable at consistently making money.

doublepost. I am an idiot.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

windswept313 wrote:Wow look as though my plight got some support. i apreciate it guys. Believe me i think my experience was lost in translation somewhat. Overall i think now that some people are discussing this without me means that maybe they understood what i really meant. There are so many other ways to get GW gear but ifelt almost compelled to take the kid in a candy store approach and try to enjoy the whole experience of going 70 miles to a GW store and finding the things i could not around home. Also enjoy the company of other players and talk shop with the locals.

That didnt turn out to be the case.

Thanks to all of you that have understood and offered support for the situation. Its appreciated.

Also i want to clear something up as well. The shop was 70 miles away not an hour but i drive fast sometimes. I was at the mall with my family for other shopping for the kids and wife and such... it was an added bonus that there is a GW store there. So i had something to look forward to for me to do. That turned out to be a waste of time. Thee is exactly 1 GW store within a 300 mile radius of where i ive and with such a distributed presence on the East Coast i only could assume they would stock a hell of a lot more than they did, especially for a Saturday afternoon.

Keep on digging, I hear Australia is nice this time of year.

So, it's the only GW Store for 300 miles, and assuming (I presume correctly) you are not the only gamer for 300 miles? What a surprise they might have been out of stock? Again, I make the following point. From what you've said, your disappointment appears to be a one off. So why fly off the handle? They can order stuff in store that is missing from the shelves. Same for FLGS. If they don't have it, they can get it. He offered you alternative ways to get what you were after, and you decided to play the jerk...

SO what was the point of said behaviour? Ego Inflating?

My reason? Because Free Will is my right as a human being.. criticizing how i handled my situation is your opinion.... you say im digging? Why do you take the time to write about what isnt the topic and digress it further.. you are a tool my friend and your opinion is meager at best. Thanks for demonstrating the characteristics that many hold to be pompous and self inflated.. you accuse me of ego.. or better yet insinuate because you are afraid to say what you really feel. Do you fear damnation at the hands of your fellow forum mates? Well now that i have seen it its really not all that bad so flame away...your ego is sorely misplaced if you continue to troll my posts to vent your discomfort for how i handle my life there are better things for you to be mad at like maybe why Mccain didnt get elected...lol.

You sir are a funny little man.

Now move on please...

windswept313 wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

windswept313 wrote:Wow look as though my plight got some support. i apreciate it guys. Believe me i think my experience was lost in translation somewhat. Overall i think now that some people are discussing this without me means that maybe they understood what i really meant. There are so many other ways to get GW gear but ifelt almost compelled to take the kid in a candy store approach and try to enjoy the whole experience of going 70 miles to a GW store and finding the things i could not around home. Also enjoy the company of other players and talk shop with the locals.

That didnt turn out to be the case.

Thanks to all of you that have understood and offered support for the situation. Its appreciated.

Also i want to clear something up as well. The shop was 70 miles away not an hour but i drive fast sometimes. I was at the mall with my family for other shopping for the kids and wife and such... it was an added bonus that there is a GW store there. So i had something to look forward to for me to do. That turned out to be a waste of time. Thee is exactly 1 GW store within a 300 mile radius of where i ive and with such a distributed presence on the East Coast i only could assume they would stock a hell of a lot more than they did, especially for a Saturday afternoon.

Keep on digging, I hear Australia is nice this time of year.

So, it's the only GW Store for 300 miles, and assuming (I presume correctly) you are not the only gamer for 300 miles? What a surprise they might have been out of stock? Again, I make the following point. From what you've said, your disappointment appears to be a one off. So why fly off the handle? They can order stuff in store that is missing from the shelves. Same for FLGS. If they don't have it, they can get it. He offered you alternative ways to get what you were after, and you decided to play the jerk...

SO what was the point of said behaviour? Ego Inflating?

My reason? Because Free Will is my right as a human being.. criticizing how i handled my situation is your opinion.... you say im digging? Why do you take the time to write about what isnt the topic and digress it further.. you are a tool my friend and your opinion is meager at best. Thanks for demonstrating the characteristics that many hold to be pompous and self inflated.. you accuse me of ego.. or better yet insinuate because you are afraid to say what you really feel. Do you fear damnation at the hands of your fellow forum mates? Well now that i have seen it its really not all that bad so flame away...your ego is sorely misplaced if you continue to troll my posts to vent your discomfort for how i handle my life there are better things for you to be mad at like maybe why Mccain didnt get elected...lol.

You sir are a funny little man.

Now move on please...

Erm... Windswept... couple of things:
It seemed you jumped into this thread with a repost of something that caused a flamewar and a locked thread... and that has now turned this one off topic and flamey....
People can blame you for it... you can blame the people replying... but knowing how your actions were percieved before when you last posted that stuff resulted in a bunch of people saying it how they saw it... and it didn't put you in a favourable light.
So why do it all again? And then bait people? And running over the same old stuff?
Grow up

Oh and as for the Mccain comment.... did you not notice that Mad-Doc is a brit and at a guess (correct me if im wrong here) but probably doesn't give a frak about American politics nor can he be pigeon holed into one of the two main US political factions.


And to get back on topic....
GW stores are viable despite people complaining about normal everyday retail occurances such as someone buying the thing you wanted just before you... in fact the lack of said stock probably is a good sign as far as the store goes... and if said customer is going to be abit of a jerk, raise up a fuss, possibly damage a stores business and then rant about how awesome he is on the interwebs... then probably its better for the store that said person isn't there.

Oh and GW stores are all very different, some don't have the same level of "kiddies running around", some promote awesome vet nights, run great events and offer a range of services for everyone at every level at the hobby. Its easier for stores to cater for the entry level- because there is always demand for that- does that mean thats the main focus? It probably should be as that keeps the store open- if that is all in order and running well then they can move onto the more exciting (for the average poster here) vets activites

windswept313 wrote:

My reason? Because Free Will is my right as a human being.. criticizing how i handled my situation is your opinion.... you say im digging? Why do you take the time to write about what isnt the topic and digress it further.. you are a tool my friend and your opinion is meager at best. Thanks for demonstrating the characteristics that many hold to be pompous and self inflated.. you accuse me of ego.. or better yet insinuate because you are afraid to say what you really feel. Do you fear damnation at the hands of your fellow forum mates? Well now that i have seen it its really not all that bad so flame away...your ego is sorely misplaced if you continue to troll my posts to vent your discomfort for how i handle my life there are better things for you to be mad at like maybe why Mccain didnt get elected...lol.

You sir are a funny little man.

Now move on please...

You interjected yourself into this topic, and can't handle that people are calling you on it. I think the only thing to say is

windswept313 wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

windswept313 wrote:Wow look as though my plight got some support. i apreciate it guys. Believe me i think my experience was lost in translation somewhat. Overall i think now that some people are discussing this without me means that maybe they understood what i really meant. There are so many other ways to get GW gear but ifelt almost compelled to take the kid in a candy store approach and try to enjoy the whole experience of going 70 miles to a GW store and finding the things i could not around home. Also enjoy the company of other players and talk shop with the locals.

That didnt turn out to be the case.

Thanks to all of you that have understood and offered support for the situation. Its appreciated.

Also i want to clear something up as well. The shop was 70 miles away not an hour but i drive fast sometimes. I was at the mall with my family for other shopping for the kids and wife and such... it was an added bonus that there is a GW store there. So i had something to look forward to for me to do. That turned out to be a waste of time. Thee is exactly 1 GW store within a 300 mile radius of where i ive and with such a distributed presence on the East Coast i only could assume they would stock a hell of a lot more than they did, especially for a Saturday afternoon.

Keep on digging, I hear Australia is nice this time of year.

So, it's the only GW Store for 300 miles, and assuming (I presume correctly) you are not the only gamer for 300 miles? What a surprise they might have been out of stock? Again, I make the following point. From what you've said, your disappointment appears to be a one off. So why fly off the handle? They can order stuff in store that is missing from the shelves. Same for FLGS. If they don't have it, they can get it. He offered you alternative ways to get what you were after, and you decided to play the jerk...

SO what was the point of said behaviour? Ego Inflating?

My reason? Because Free Will is my right as a human being.. criticizing how i handled my situation is your opinion.... you say im digging? Why do you take the time to write about what isnt the topic and digress it further.. you are a tool my friend and your opinion is meager at best. Thanks for demonstrating the characteristics that many hold to be pompous and self inflated.. you accuse me of ego.. or better yet insinuate because you are afraid to say what you really feel. Do you fear damnation at the hands of your fellow forum mates? Well now that i have seen it its really not all that bad so flame away...your ego is sorely misplaced if you continue to troll my posts to vent your discomfort for how i handle my life there are better things for you to be mad at like maybe why Mccain didnt get elected...lol.

You sir are a funny little man.

Now move on please...

Wait, you said that you were at the mall anyways, yet you made it seem like the ONLY reason you went was because of the GW store. That makes you a funny little man. Not only was the sole purpose of your trip to go shopping at the MALL, not GW exclusively, you had no right to the act of d-baggery that you committed. Had you went to the mall exclusively for the GW store, you may of had the right to be mad, not to order in store and ruin some business, but to be mad.

You also said it was saturday AFTERNOON, hello, most stores will sell out of the "good" stuff in the morning when all intelligent shoppers begin shopping on the weekend. Had you gone there saturday MORNING and they had nothing, then maybe you would have an argument. Anyone who goes to any retail chain and expects to get something they want in the afternnon on saturday are incredibly lucky if they do find something.

Most stores receive shipments in the middle or beginning of the week, the beginning of the week being sunday morning. Most stores get shipments at night and do not put out what they receive until next morning so that they are not bothered by customers while putting stuff out.

I mean you set yourself up for failure. Your premise of driving all of the way out their only for the GW store is false, your premise of them having items on a saturday afternoon is false. You obviously have no concept of fairness and no concept of decent behavior. I hope that your child will work in retail and have the same thing happen to him/her.

I agree with mad dok, but its obvious you don't use a shovel to dig your hole, you use a mad scientist's drilling machine.

windswept313 wrote:My reason? Because Free Will is my right as a human being...

That's a nice free pass to do whatever you want. I guess the employees at the store have no rights. "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." - George Orwell.

Back on topic - is there any indication on GW's quarterly reports as to the general profitability of their different divisions? While the GW stores might be providing a valuable service, it is still problematic if they aren't turning a profit.

My bad, lets leave off Windsept and move back to the primary topic, why I can't understand MDG's typing, er no its yGW viability.

Is it me, or is there a trans-atlantic split on this? GW stores are well-entrenched in the UK and really, indispensible to the hobby. In the US the GW stores are meh and completely disposable.

I've never understood the GW store business model. All that overhead has to hurt.

Arschbombe wrote:Is it me, or is there a trans-atlantic split on this? GW stores are well-entrenched in the UK and really, indispensible to the hobby. In the US the GW stores are meh and completely disposable.

I've never understood the GW store business model. All that overhead has to hurt.

Things are abit different over here- I know that- And I gather that things are done completely differently (its a different branch of the company)
But there are some fundemental things that are the same... stock management (A staffer can check stock of things in the US from a UK store terminal...muwwhahahahaha)
Beginners lessons, hobby lessons, Vets nights, space to play- A GW is a GW- I'll just say the ones near me are better than everywhere else

I've already posted target numbers in another post. Short summary: (This varies depending on the store, the season, and how the store has done in the past. ) They judge the first day of the week as Monday. It's just how they do things. This was roughly what my store's targets are.

Monday: 800
Tuesday: 800
Wednesday: 800
Thursday: 800
Friday: 1500
Saturday: 1500
Sunday: 1000

On average it's about $1000 a day. Bunker targets are higher. Stores with a good customer community routinely outdo targets. Then GW sets newer higher targets.
We had a few Saturdays that broke 4 grand in one day. We also had quite a few days where the total was $80. Funny enough, red shirts make or break a store. They get paid the least and get the most crap, but they're the biggest determinant of store success.

keezus wrote:Apparently, mall rentals run around $25-$50/square foot. Assuming a hypothetical GW outlet of 200sqft (VERY SMALL!) at a very generous rent of $35/square foot equates to $7000/month. (GW's stores are usually located in high trafic malls, with likely rents of $40+/square foot)

Assuming that GW sells product at 50% markup over their base cost (which I suspect, grossly overestimates their production costs) - in order to be viable, this hypothetical GW store needs to sell $14000 worth of product per month in order to break even on rent alone.

Assuming (an oversimplification) that a typical GW staffer makes $8/hour - going by the hours kept by typical "high trafic" malls where GW stores are likely to be situated - 12 hour days, Monday to Saturday, and a 6 hour day on Sunday - this means that every staffer costs GW $624/week.

...
...

I have no idea what kind of sales a GW outlet generates... however, I can tell you with some certaintly that a lot of small FLGS are unable to generate this kind of daily sales. Based on (very favourable) numbers alone - I'd say that this kind of operation is unsustainable.

GW's current retail strategy is to use some shops in high footfall areas as recruiting stations rather than profit centres. From this viewpoint, some stores can be kept going as loss leaders because of the marketing benefit.

Arschbombe wrote:Is it me, or is there a trans-atlantic split on this? GW stores are well-entrenched in the UK and really, indispensible to the hobby. In the US the GW stores are meh and completely disposable.

I've never understood the GW store business model. All that overhead has to hurt.

The UK is a much smaller and more densely populated place than the USA. Between my work and where I live in London, I can get to three different GW shops within about 45 minutes by tube or car. That's after they shut down a couple of other local shops -- they have been retrenching because as you say the overhead is enormous. Clearly, online sales are becoming more important and GW have taken advantage by putting the web based ordering system into shops.