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I've run into similar problems about getting items I've wanted in a GW store, Grapevine Mills to be specific. I recently stopped by to get some mega armoured nobs, but the store had a whopping whole one blister in stock. I've been have a beast of a time trying to get a couple of squads of mega armoured nobs. My local GW store has a grand total of one in stock. That's not going to do me much good. Why not order it off the website you say? Well, the last time I did I couldn't choose which weapon they came with (and I always end up with combi-rockets or an overabundance of skorchas). Being $15 bucks each, I shouldn't have to settle for the random blister with wargear that I might not desire. Orks are supposedly the second most popular army right now for 40K (behind space marines). Anyway, that's my example.

Ever tried phoning Mail Order about that one?

Just had a look on the UK Site, and you can order them with specific weapons. Well, you can specifically order Combi-Rokkit or Combi-Skorcha.

Didn't see the standard twinlinked Shoota though. Odd.

EDIT

Just checked the US Website, and it's the same. Order specifics, unless you want Twin Shootas, which are seemingly unavailable??

Which is what I want because I already have a bunch with skorchas and one shot rokkits combined with BS2 is dumb.

So give Mail Order a ring. Won't take five minutes to find out, surely?

I suspect the Website is an oversight??

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And GW make it hard to buy how?

Now, if you had travelled some distance purely to go to GW and only to pick up extremely specific items, and you didn't think to call ahead in advance to check stock, then more fool you.

Stop holding them up to standards you wouldn't hold any other store up to.

Apparently, it was slower than picking up the phone or buying on eBay. Or just telling the clerk.

If I have to call ahead to buy stuff, I'm calling the WarStore and saving the trip.

I don't think I'm holding GW to any unusual standard at all. I'm just don't believe that their efforts to cut stock jibes with being a destination store.

Why? All stock IS available, 100% of the time through their stores. Sounds win win to me.

And you're right about the 'Destination Store' thingy. Probably is easier to just order online from home, regardless of which site you use. But, if you really do intend to drive for an hour, just go buy something you can get from the comfort of you're own home, then you are a fool. But, GW also offer you somewhere to game. So pack up your army, and nip up the local shop to see if you can get a game in. Thats what makes it a destination store, not it's relative stock levels.

And I do feel you are. You used the Lego Store as a comparisson, and listed everything you didn't like about GW (having to occasionally order specially when stock is sold out) and said that was a positive. There is a level of hypocricy in that statement you know.

I think GW is a desitination store for different reasons than stock. I've never bought any product at a GW store, but I go there generally looking more for a game than for product.

I used to work for a chain of stores that sold Swimming Pools and parts for them. There was no way we could keep every part for every model in the store, but we could get stuff in a few days for all but the most esoteric stuff. I felt bad for customers that drove a ways into only find out we didn't have a part, but I couldn't squeeze one out. Now, my situation was differet: we were an authorized retailer, not a company store, and we didn't have competition from the internet.

I still think that GW stores do what they can do, and are pretty fun for what they are. A couple of bad experiences isn't what's killing the GW stores, it's being a single range retailer that sells at full MSRP.

@MDG: I said that the Lego store is easier (for me) to order from than GW (for 313). That isn't hypocrisy.

Why is it so hard to order from a GW Store though?

No one has bothered to explain that one, beyond just claiming it. Depending on how the store is set up, it's two shades of easy.

1. Grab the Catalogue, Price Guide, Pen and Order Form. Write down what you want, Staffer phones it through, you pay the cash.

2. Go to the instore Web Terminal, place your order, pay at the till.

The problem here is what exactly?

For that answer, you'll have to go back to 313, and I'm not sure he's going to answer any more, not after the tarring and feathering he got.

Perhaps if he were WC, Dakka would have gathered with torches and pitchforks outside the GW store...

(I keed...)

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Seriously. Stop holding them up to standards you wouldn't hold any other store up to.

Grotsnik: It is called "managing expectations". Your insinuations aside, I think it is clear that everyone who posts in this thread, is aware that IS possible for GW to order what you need and deliver it to the store in a reasonable amount of time. It is also common knowledge that GW is not stocking slower moving items - such as the two Ordos armies, Specialist Games, Dark Eldar etc. This is common knowledge for US as gamers, and as patrons of GW.

Based on this common knowledge, the following assumptions can safely be made about store stock:

1. Plastic core sets - should be in stock. Metal boxed squads / regiments should also be in stock, unless the army is a poor seller.
2. Squad upgrade blisters - hit and miss. Probably need to be ordered. (This includes upgrade weapon troopers.)
3. Special character blisters - hit and miss. Even if they are new (first 3-4 months), they still may, or may not be in stock.
4. Special character boxes - Probably need to be ordered.
5. Blister only units - should in stock.
6. Hobby supplies - should in stock.

I'm not a big fantasy guy, but I'd imagine that it is much the same on the fantasy side. Lump the squad upgrades and command into #2.

Consider your average consumer - or someone who visits GW outlets infrequently... these customers are almost certainly going to be disapointed. I would that it is not possible for GW to stock their entire catalogue. However, GW needs to make it easier to determine what is normally stocked - and what is not. The casual customer, or a parent, buying for a kid's birthday is not going to be impressed when half the things on their "buy" list needs to be ordered.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Why is it so hard to order from a GW Store though?

No one has bothered to explain that one, beyond just claiming it. Depending on how the store is set up, it's two shades of easy.

1. Grab the Catalogue, Price Guide, Pen and Order Form. Write down what you want, Staffer phones it through, you pay the cash.

2. Go to the instore Web Terminal, place your order, pay at the till.

The problem here is what exactly?

You're making some generalizations that all GWs are the same. They might have added web terminals to the stores in Canada since I was last there, but as of mid February, ours are not equipped as such. They also only ship to store, and not to your house. I am not sure if this has changed recently either.

Kilkrazy wrote:The reason is because if there are 500 stores in the world (I have made up figures for the purpose of illustration) and GW want to stock a Shadowsun, a Space Pope and a Farsight in every store, they have to manufacture £25,000 worth of models just in case someone might walk into a shop and want to buy one. Meanwhile, £25,000 of their cash is locked up in cardboard boxes instead of in the bank earning interest. Multiply those kind of figures by the entire range and it soon becomes obvious that the cost is too high.

The cost is only too high because chunks of their model range are occupied by models that few people want to buy.

Given that people will, rightly or wrongly, expect GW stores to stock the whole GW range, it would seem like better business to look at the reasons that those items don't sell well and do something to fix it, rather than alienating customers by not having stock on hand.

No I'm not. Every GW Store has a solid capacity to order anything from the catalogue.

All can do the paper and pen routine, and increasingly they are getting the Terminals (paper and pen being a suitable back up!).

They ship wherever you tell them to ship to. This is fact. Why wouldn't they? There is logical reason NOT to do so.

And again, they only have so much storage space for stock. The new restock system works well enough. Each store is set a standard level, and as something is sold, it is automatically added to the Store's Order. How is it bad management if someone else has beaten you to the punch and snaffled ALL the stock you happened to want?

As I said, 313 went tonto from a single example. This is inexcusable. Now, had this been the case more than once, then perhaps fair enough (with every time it becomes more understandable).

And again, since ordering what you want in store is relatively hassle free, whats the big deal?

Insaniak...models people don't want to buy (how do you quantify this?) or models you can only sell a set amount of? For example, special characters. Barring conversions, you can generally sell a maximum of one per collector of said army, and probably a lot less. Thus, it makes sense to make them direct order. Still easily available, but you can retain shelf space for higher volume sales. Like Squads, Units and Tanks etc.

keezus wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Why is it so hard to order from a GW Store though?

No one has bothered to explain that one, beyond just claiming it. Depending on how the store is set up, it's two shades of easy.

1. Grab the Catalogue, Price Guide, Pen and Order Form. Write down what you want, Staffer phones it through, you pay the cash.

2. Go to the instore Web Terminal, place your order, pay at the till.

The problem here is what exactly?

You're making some generalizations that all GWs are the same. They might have added web terminals to the stores in Canada since I was last there, but as of mid February, ours are not equipped as such. They also only ship to store, and not to your house. I am not sure if this has changed recently either.

You can still use the pen and paper forms then- Grotsnik is used to the UK, where all the stores now have instore order points with fancy computery goodness

keezus wrote:
Based on this common knowledge, the following assumptions can safely be made about store stock:

1. Plastic core sets - should be in stock. Metal boxed squads / regiments should also be in stock, unless the army is a poor seller.
2. Squad upgrade blisters - hit and miss. Probably need to be ordered. (This includes upgrade weapon troopers.)
3. Special character blisters - hit and miss. Even if they are new (first 3-4 months), they still may, or may not be in stock.
4. Special character boxes - Probably need to be ordered.
5. Blister only units - should in stock.
6. Hobby supplies - should in stock.

Not necissarily- first problem- what if someone buys all the current in store stock? How much stock should the store keep out back?
Right now in the UK at least (and I think in the US too) there is an automated stock management system with a min and max for each product that is kept in store, and they are automatically replenished with each order to keep the shelves full. For arguements sake- say the number min is 4 and the max is 6 for assualt marines... the store has a busy weekend, sells all 6 boxes... monday the factory sends out a replacement 6... they come in and on the same day they come in, someone buys all 6 again- you come into the store that same day and find there to be none.... do you have a solution?
as it stands in that case the staffer can get it sorted for you and get it delieverd to your house free of charge to make up for the fact they are outta them.

As for your 6 things that should be in stock- that is a HELL of alot of items, an awful lot of which aren't kept in stores anymore due to them being such slow sellers- there isn't the space to keep all of that, nor the money to send all of that out to every store and keep it all stocked up..
Again using the marines example- They have the most items- 240ish- I work in a VERY large GW store- and we honestly wouldn't have the space for all that stuff- but the stuff we do have in is stuff that generally moves over the course of several weeks- even Calgar that someone laughed at a store having 4 boxes of him and his honour guard- I know for a fact our store ran out of them last week...and we usually have 4 in stock...
Of the things we don't have in store (I'd say as much as 180-200 of those 240 marine items) We maybe order in for customers 3-4 items per week, definately not enough to warrant keeping those things in stock in the store, especially as thats 3-4 different items each week out of 180 to 200 items in total that are avalible- one week it will be a special character, another week it will be shoulder pads, then someone out of the blue will want 10 metal multi-melta troopers for his salamanders...

As it stands the stock system does the job 99% of the time- and its a shame when it is that 1% and I'm sorry if that happens to you or someone you know- Often though when it happens, thats the time for the staffer to bend over backwards to get the job done- cracking open battleforces for an assault squad, getting the stuff from another store that is close by or other such good deeds.

Bignutter wrote:Not necissarily- first problem- what if someone buys all the current in store stock? How much stock should the store keep out back?

There's always extenuating circumstance. Stores are usually unnaturally bare after Christmas and just before tournaments (or other similar events). Someone I know once bought 10 boxes of Necrons in one go, and I drove around and bought every box of Iron Warriors I could find around the time they were phased out. I meant it more as a rule of thumb when travelling to your local GW store for whatever reason - in order to avoid having an unrealistic expectation of what one is going to be able to buy right away.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And again, they only have so much storage space for stock.

This has been an excuse they've used for some time now, but I'm not sure I agree with it.

Sure, GW stores are often a little on the small side... but the space they have, at least in the stores I've been into, isn't used particularly efficiently.

They have a lot more usable space for stock than what they actually utilise.

And again, since ordering what you want in store is relatively hassle free, whats the big deal?

The big deal, at least as I see it, is that a lot of the purchases made by gamers are impulse buys. They customer doesn't want to have to order something and have it arrive in a week. They want to see it, buy it, and rip it open and play with it.

Insaniak...models people don't want to buy (how do you quantify this?) or models you can only sell a set amount of?

Two seperate issues. Both are used as excuses not to stock an item.

For the first, you quantify it by looking at sales. It's what GW did when they chose to relegate most of the Dark Eldar range to order only back at the start of 4th edition, on the grounds that they weren't big sellers anyway.

For example, special characters. Barring conversions, you can generally sell a maximum of one per collector of said army, and probably a lot less.

And if you don't have them on the shelf where people can see them, it will be less.

Thus, it makes sense to make them direct order.

It really doesn't. Doing so loses you sales from the impulse buyer, or the complete army buyer.

What makes sense is keeping minimal stock on hand. Adding an extra peg for a given army's special characters doesn't take up that much space.

The Complete Army Buyer will get it through whichever means, and the instore order point (electronic or not) is easy enough to satisy impulse buyers.

And what if, when browsing the Website, you see something else nonstock you want?

Like the Collectors Range. I wanted to order up a specific River Troll for a conversion idea, and end up buying the Satosan Vampire, Animosity Orcs, and Orc Raider with Pig. Impulse buys apart from the Troll, and bagged GW a good bit more of my cash. I mean, consider it. If you ask about something specific, like say, Shrike, which isn't average stock (I think some stores do if they are large enough, but don't quote me on that). The Staff Member then shows you the Catalogue. You look through it, and see the models all painted and lovely. So you browse a bit, and notice stuff in the collectors range you didn't know was still available. Impulse Buys are still viable.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:The Complete Army Buyer will get it through whichever means,

I think you're talking about something different.

I'm not talking about the buyer who just wants to collect everything. I'm talking about the buyer who walks in and buys a complete army.

The convenience of being able to get everything in one go is a large factor for that buyer. Sure, they can order what they're missing online. But they'll be happier, and so more likely to come back next time, if they don't have to.

and the instore order point (electronic or not) is easy enough to satisy impulse buyers.

Being able to jump onto a computer and order something (assuming you find yourself in a store that actually has such a facility) is not the same as being able to grab something off a shelf and buy it there and then.

And what if, when browsing the Website, you see something else nonstock you want?

What about it?

Yes, driving people to their webstore might push a few extra online sales.

But when you have a customer standing in front of you wanting to give you money, telling them to go away and buy from somewhere else is just madness.

The webstore should be an alternative, not a replacement.

If retail space is the real problem, GW could have done a number of different things rather than cutting product from the shelves.

Let's look at available options:

1. Remove inefficient packaging. GW is kind of doing this already. The new battleforces and regiment boxes are much better than before. The small metal squad boxes are rather inefficient - especially considering that some of those boxes used to be packaged in blisters. This takes away from the nice visual display, but it would reduce wastage of space. Models like the C'Tan would be better in blisters - and those blisters hold a surprising amount. Models like the Avatar, and old metal wraithlords used to come in blisters - heck, back in the old days, they'd cram an entire squad of aspect warriors in one of those.

2. Get rid of redundant kits. GW is kind of doing this already with the hybrid Land Raider kit, upgrade packs such as the DA and BT packs and the new landspeeder, but it could be taken further. Considering the skyray kit contains a complete hammerhead, a rebadging of the box to read HAMMERHEAD/SKYRAY would remove an entire kit from the shelves - the Falcon/Wavesepent could easily be packaged together. Breaking out the chaos sprues into their own box would easily remove 3 more kits from the shelves (rhino, predator, land raider), while only adding a smaller kit. Taken to its logical extreme, all similarly hulled vehicles could be made into conversion kits for a base vehicle. This would reduce needed display space tremendously, as the tank kits are large and space consuming.

3. Stock reductions need to be made intelligently. If an line is to be supported, then at the very least, it should be ensured that a functioning army can still be built from store stock - if it is a poor seller, the ENTIRE army should be made "direct only". For example: In February on my last trip to a GW store, they had SOME Witchunter stuff - codex, canoness, squad box, sisters blister, immolator, seraphim and seraphim superior. No sign of special or heavy weapons. - If the customer is going to have to order a sizable proportion of the army in order to build something competitive, they will not complain about haveing to special order it all. Instead of stocking token witchunter product, the space could be better served rounding out a few of the other armies which are conspicously missing blisters to fill out metal squads or metal special weapons.

Just my 2 credits.

People buying whole armies isn't all that common, trust me.

And you're not telling them to go away. Thats the whole point of the Direct System. They can't have it there and then, but you can get it to them in a couple of days or so. The Webstore does drive impulse buys. So much on there you can't get in store, like the aforementioned collectors range.

And fair enough on the Complete Army buyer. I did indeed get the wrong end of the stick. MY fault! Sorry!

Flashman wrote:After 17 odd years of using GW stores, my only complaint is the occasional "check this out, you must buy it" attitude which soon goes away when they know you're collecting a specific army.

Flashman, you can use a Giant with any army! Buy one!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:The Complete Army Buyer will get it through whichever means, and the instore order point (electronic or not) is easy enough to satisy impulse buyers.

you just missed half of what insaniak said of impulse buyers. =

They customer doesn't want to have to order something and have it arrive in a week.

like insaniak said, most buys are impulse. i myself am an impulse buyer. i don't want to have to wait for a whole week, becoming more each day it doesn't arrive, ot finaly get it and yet don't want it anymore. i want it when i want it, not when GW decides it will get there.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:People buying whole armies isn't all that common, trust me.

They're not common, but they're out there.

And you're not telling them to go away. Thats the whole point of the Direct System.

If you're telling them to go home and order from the website, that's exactly what you're doing.

If the store has a terminal (and I honestly don't know how many of them do these days... I've never seen one over here), then that's better... except that most people won't use it.

I've been working in retail for a long time. From my experience, customers hate anything that forces them to spend longer on their shopping (particularly in an unfamiliar store, which will often be the case for parents buying for their young), they hate anything that is unfamiliar (such as having to use a computer system they've never seen before to buy something they expected to just pick up off a shelf) and they hate anything that forces them to ask for help.

Not having something readily available on the shelf ticks all of those boxes. Yes, a certain number of people will be more than happy to place an order if what they want is not in stock. But I can guarantee you that the majority will not.

They'll be in too much of a hurry. It'll be too much hassle. They might be able to find it at that other shop up the road. Or they might just go elsewhere and buy something else entirely instead.

They can't have it there and then, but you can get it to them in a couple of days or so.

And that loses sales. Guaranteed.

There will come a time when internet shopping is commonplace enough that everyone will be accustomed to ordering and waiting for their shopping to arrive in a couple of days.

That time is not now.

The Webstore does drive impulse buys. So much on there you can't get in store, like the aforementioned collectors range.

Sure... but for every item they sell through the online store, how many customers said 'Nah, too hard' and just didn't bother?

People like being able to see and hold what they're buying. And a lot of people simply don't have access to online shopping. I don't know how common credit cards are overseas, but here in Oz there's an awful lot of people who don't have them. And even though a lot of online retailers these days offer alternative payment methods, people aren't aware of the fact... and so don't bother even looking into it. They just assume that they can't shop online.

Frazzled wrote:Genghis Connie's Golden Horde of Little-ist Petshop will brook no Legos my friend.

Those toys are the awesomest, most evil thing I have ever seen.

Don't you get preorders at GW stores sooner than release? Or am I confused?

Me personally, I dont goto a GW store. There is one just over an hour away from me. Ive been there and its nice. BUT I had the same problems. I need this, they had that kind of thing. BUT at about 15 mins away I can drive to my FLGS and on a whime ALMOST guarantee they have what I need in stock. In the rare off chance they dont, then I buy else where.
Im still sad they killed off the Bitz section

KingCracker wrote:Me personally, I dont goto a GW store. There is one just over an hour away from me. Ive been there and its nice. BUT I had the same problems. I need this, they had that kind of thing. BUT at about 15 mins away I can drive to my FLGS and on a whime ALMOST guarantee they have what I need in stock. In the rare off chance they dont, then I buy else where.
Im still sad they killed off the Bitz section

You sound like me, I have been to the nearest GW store twice, and both times couldn't get what I went in for.
I also don't much care for the new(?) aggressive helpfulness policy for the staff, (I know, they are trained to do this) the first time I went in and the redshirt was right in my face and so loudly helpful that I had to take a step back. (then again I am old and grumpy)

I believe the first time I was in a GW store was when they first opened them up here in the US and now I just order what I need online since I can't go pawing through bins of sprues anymore to come up with my usual insane conversions.

The GW stores are great for scooting off to for a pot of paint that you just ran out of or finding a game to get in on, but I really can't see them staying in business forever since so many folks do most of their hobby shopping online these days.

Just my two ducets, for what it's worth.

I love the part where he rings Neal while in the store and makes a Warstore order. Hilarious. I would have loved to have seen that. Very cool.

BYE

keezus wrote:

Shotgun wrote:For many locations...stock does equal display though. Stock sitting in the backroom is not being seen, and thus, not being sold. It is floor space not generating sales.

I conceede that point.

I just can't reconcile that GW's store doesn't carry the full range of GW stock... as I posted in the other thread, if I go into an Apple store to buy an iPod in some strange, unpopular colour, I'd expect them to have it, after all, it is an APPLE store - and it should carry all their CURRENT products. I can forgive the local Bestbuy for not having the full range of iPods because that is not their core business. I do not understand why GW gets a free pass for not carrying their whole current range. Also - if the items are not carried in the retail stores, THEY SHOULD INDICATE THIS AS SUCH ON THE WEB STORE. Most other retailers do this with a simple "not carried in retail stores" logo - usually accompanied by a link to order it and have it shipped to the store.

1. Apple's products become obsolete and get pulled. Unless you want Apple to stock Gen 1 I-Pods. That's all you. This doesn't happen with GW product. Some people have very open notions of "Current Range". Chances are, if you're going to a GW store, you're a regular, so it's not a problem to order it and pick it up later. If you're driving an hour plus, call ahead.

2. That whole "They should note it on the web page" thing. In theory, I agree with you. However, I don't think it'll work in practice: a. It means someone has to update the web everytime a product gets pulled. GW is already cutting back on staff. b. It assumes that people can actually read and take the time and effort to plan ahead so before considering thier purchases. Let me tell you as a former Retail employee, this doesn't happen at all. You people (the buying public) are really slack-jawed, mouth-breathing simpletons barely capable of pulling your pants up, much less tying your shoes. The sign could be right behind me at the counter in 200 point font, and you'll still ask me if there is a sale going on. It's been at least 5 years, but I still want to stab you (in the universal sense) in the face.

GW do not have internet competition, wherever you buy GW stock from you are still Buying GW stock. I also agree that certain less popular lines should not be stocked in stores.

I do thinks that free quick (within a few days) delivery for stuff ordered in store (with a minimum purchace level of course) is possible and reasonable and would help GW to draw customers toward the GW store experience.

This would also help to mitigate the rush period that GW suffer from when new popular lines are released.

The last thing I bought from a GW store was the Tyranid Broodlord when it was first released so maybe I'm not a good guide.