Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

JohnHwangDD wrote:For that answer, you'll have to go back to 313, and I'm not sure he's going to answer any more, not after the tarring and feathering he got.

Perhaps if he were WC, Dakka would have gathered with torches and pitchforks outside the GW store...

(I keed...)

No I volunteered to tar and feather him, and I wasn't kidding.

I've ordered bits, minis and entire armies via GW stores. I've not used the new computer terminal, but the old catalogs. The staff were always helpful in looking something up, or putting up ideas on bits for my various ham handed conversion projects.

I will say I have no special love for GW, and have been in FLGS stores that were amazing (currently playing in one now-or what little playing I do). But you're giving gthe stores a bad rep thats not there. Having said that I still count figure out how any GW or FLGS store stays in business.

If it wasn't for the local stores I'd have no interest in the hobby. They are a great resource, but they do get annoying from time to time, especially when they choose to not stock the models you want to buy!

Although this is the interweb age and you can order anything off ebay via your iphone, still I want to buy it instantly from a shop and have the satisfaction of taking it home and opening it! (Unless of course I could buy it 20% cheaper, then I wouldn't mind waiting a day or three)

Okay, people are saying GW store this and GW store that, but does the problem truly start with the store. The answer is no. The fact is that GW has to supply stores across the world, maybe 100 or so GW stores. Not only do these stores need supplies, but so do thousands of other stores in the US alone that are either partners(host RTT) or independent retailers. Then theres all of the hobby stores across the world that also carry warhammer sets. So you have a little supply that must be spread out to the majority of the stores.

Anyone whos worked in retail would know that stores constantly sell out of multiple items, doesn't the fact that SM are one of the most popular armies figure into this at all. Nearly everything he asked for was for SM. The most popular models are going to sell out faster than any other models. In fact I'm surprised that they weren't sold out of drop pods.

As to "viability" I'll give an example.

I went to dakkadakka.com and there were no articles on; IG always beating SM, Orks eating lasagna, Eldar and DE reconciliation possibilities, etc. these are all things I wanted to see. So this means dakkadakka.com is not a viable website, so I'm going to tell everyone to go to warseer or bolter and chainsword.

Or, similar to the ordering service GW offers I can create said threads. By ordering in store through GW, you have the ability to say "hey, I want this. Put it in stock and save it for me.".

GW stores are viable, its just that consumers LOVE to throw tantrums.

EDIT:SPELLING

I went to dakkadakka.com and there were no articles on; IG always beating SM, Orks eating lasagna, Eldar and DE reconciliation possibilities, etc. these are all things I wanted to see. So this means dakkadakka.com is not a viable website, so I'm going to tell everyone to go to warseer or bolter and chainsword.

Um, there's a 40k humor thread a few posts below this one. There's also exploding assassins and loving chaos too.

insaniak wrote:

And you're not telling them to go away. Thats the whole point of the Direct System.

If you're telling them to go home and order from the website, that's exactly what you're doing.

If the store has a terminal (and I honestly don't know how many of them do these days... I've never seen one over here), then that's better... except that most people won't use it.

I've been working in retail for a long time. From my experience, customers hate anything that forces them to spend longer on their shopping (particularly in an unfamiliar store, which will often be the case for parents buying for their young), they hate anything that is unfamiliar (such as having to use a computer system they've never seen before to buy something they expected to just pick up off a shelf) and they hate anything that forces them to ask for help.

Not having something readily available on the shelf ticks all of those boxes. Yes, a certain number of people will be more than happy to place an order if what they want is not in stock. But I can guarantee you that the majority will not.

They'll be in too much of a hurry. It'll be too much hassle. They might be able to find it at that other shop up the road. Or they might just go elsewhere and buy something else entirely instead.

They can't have it there and then, but you can get it to them in a couple of days or so.

And that loses sales. Guaranteed.

There will come a time when internet shopping is commonplace enough that everyone will be accustomed to ordering and waiting for their shopping to arrive in a couple of days.

That time is not now.

The Webstore does drive impulse buys. So much on there you can't get in store, like the aforementioned collectors range.

Sure... but for every item they sell through the online store, how many customers said 'Nah, too hard' and just didn't bother?

People like being able to see and hold what they're buying. And a lot of people simply don't have access to online shopping. I don't know how common credit cards are overseas, but here in Oz there's an awful lot of people who don't have them. And even though a lot of online retailers these days offer alternative payment methods, people aren't aware of the fact... and so don't bother even looking into it. They just assume that they can't shop online.

I see your points here Insaniak, however there really isn't a plausable way round it- In order for GW to be able to supply such a vast "current range" a large amount of it needs to be direct only. Now this doesn't mean that the in store staff are telling you to go elsewhere- it in fact means that they need to get their arses in gear and sort that order out for you- wether its using an instore terminal, a mailorder form or even just a bit of paper and picking up the phone. I've worked in retail and done all of those things- and got it done, I have also come across the customers that as you say- just think it is too hard and don't bother.


As for the stock that is kept in stores- its based upon how well the item sells
Sisters of battle heavy weapons- sure they are useful for someone doing a sisters of battle army- but do they sell enough to warrant having them in stock for every store? The answer there is a resounding no- not because they aren't loved, not because its some conspiracy to screw over the witchhunters players and not because anyone is being stupid- its because it just isn't economically viable to keep them in stock. Once every 6 months each store does a stock check that uses an updated list, and some of the items (like SOB heavy weaps) will drop off the list, and either not get re-stocked, put in a box in the back or sent back to HQ- this leaves space for new releases and other items that are selling well enough in the store, or in the company as a whole, to use that space.
Its really easy to claim that GW should stock EVERYTHING- but it isn't so easy to explain how they can achieve this.


To mention impulse buying as well, if its something that you have to direct only- chances are it isn't an impulse buy because its not going to be on the shop floor- An impulse buy is something you see then and there and decide you want it- Often there will be sets that you look at and go "Why the hell do we have that in stock?" Sisters of battle squads is a good example of that... its there to act as an impulse buy item- remind you that sisters of battle still exist. Our store had 1 in stock for about 6 months untouched, then someone saw it, bought it, and then later came back and ordered bits and bobs for a small sisters army. The stuff he ordered wasn't an impulse buy- and I doubt anyone would have impulse bought the things he wanted.
So generally if its the kind of item that leads well to impulse buying- it should at least be on the books for being in stock.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I love the part where he rings Neal while in the store and makes a Warstore order. Hilarious. I would have loved to have seen that. Very cool.

BYE

I gotta ask H.B.M.C. why? Did the staff member really do something so bad that deserved the symbolic middle finger like that? If your not happy with the service in a GW store- I'm sorry to hear that, but is it really necissary to be insulting about it?

KingCracker wrote:Me personally, I dont goto a GW store. There is one just over an hour away from me. Ive been there and its nice. BUT I had the same problems. I need this, they had that kind of thing. BUT at about 15 mins away I can drive to my FLGS and on a whime ALMOST guarantee they have what I need in stock. In the rare off chance they dont, then I buy else where.
Im still sad they killed off the Bitz section

FLGS are great in that they usually have abit more flexibility in what they can order in- and sometimes will stock things differently because they know what to expect. At the same time they are working off the same list of stock as the regular GW stores- so unless they have a huge range of previously retail, not direct only stuff, Its confusing why they would have stuff a GW store will have

halonachos wrote:

GW stores are viable, its just that consumers LOVE to throw tantrums.

That kinda sums it up for me- its that age old case of it being more fun to read about the bad things than the good- I've already mentioned this several times-
I guess its my way of throwing a tantrum at the internet for everyone always being so damn negative and whiny.... which is in effect me doing the same about the internet *goes off in a grump*

I think the one point people are failing to realize is that the GW store should be available for the impulse buyer. Chances are if I'm going to a GW store or retail store for that matter, it's because I want something NOW. It's not because I want to wait. This means that going to the store and then having to order the product is a waste of my time and an aggrivation because my NOW want wasn't satisfied.

Conversely, if I'm going to order online, I'm going to order at a discount if at all possible. This means I'm NOT going to GW for my order. The shipping is usually offset by the discount at a minimum.

Let's look at a seqence of events. I want product X now, so I hop in my car and drive to the local GW. I arrive and they don't have the item I want. They offer to order it and I choose to order the item. I then return a week later and pick up my product. Total cost to me:

+ Product X full retail cost
+ Gas to and from the store TWICE
+ Sales Tax

Lets do it another way. I go to the store and decide not to order the product. I instead, go home and order it via an online retailer.

+ Product X full retail cost
- 20% discount
+ Gas to and from the store once
+ Shipping

My guess is the second is cheaper.

The only way it may not be cheaper to buy from an online retailer is if you attend your local GW on a regular basis for gaming and you may or may not buy stuff on each trip. This moves the gas price from an addition expense to a non-issue because you were going to the store anyway.

And GW stock the most common and popular lines in their range in the stores. Space prevents them from stocking EVERYTHING.

Thus, 90% or so of impulse buys are met, probably more. However, even stocking the entire range does not prevent something being sold out by the time you get there, which seems to be the crux of the matter here.

And in appreciation of this, they have Instore Order points. Interesting how everyone refuting this keeps bringing up that their store doesn't have a Web Order point. No. True. But note how they ignore the fact that every GW Store has Mail Order Forms, and will order it up for you without hassle.

The entire market is served and served to the best of their ability. I am yet to here a credible alternative beyond petty internet bitching, and again, the ridiculous standard certain people hold GW to, whilst steadfastly refusing to do the same to other retail outlets.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And GW stock the most common and popular lines in their range in the stores. Space prevents them from stocking EVERYTHING.

Thus, 90% or so of impulse buys are met, probably more. However, even stocking the entire range does not prevent something being sold out by the time you get there, which seems to be the crux of the matter here.

Respectfully - if GW stocks the most popular stuff, chances are the customer HAS it for their army already. It is the stuff that is "off the beaten path" that might inspire a conversion or a side painting project.

And yet the majority of people will still want the most common stuff, troops and core choices etc.

In Fantasy, a lot of stuff previously in Blisters (and odd amounts as well) have now been moved into boxes. Take the most recent armies. For Dark Elves, Witch Elves, Executioners, Black Guard etc are now available in two types of box. Rank and File, and Command. Now, the best thing about this, is that the boxes come in 5's. Perfect for a Rank. Plus, they are usually a little bit cheaper than the equivalent models in blisters, not to mention not having the odd model or two just sitting around.

But not everything can be in stock 100% of the time. So GW have made it as easy and convenient as possible to order them up instore.

SO given the inherent limitations of having a large range, and small shops, what more could GW do?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Space prevents them from stocking EVERYTHING.

No it doesn't. Again, lack of effecting the most efficient use of space may do so, but every GW store I've been into most certainly had more space that could be used for stock.

It's not a lack of space, unless their merchandisers are completely clueless. It's more likely to be simply a desire to keep inventory costs down.

However, even stocking the entire range does not prevent something being sold out by the time you get there,

Good inventory management (these days handled reasonably well with computer software, especially if you're supplied by your own company and so theoretically don't have as many supply issues as using independant suppliers) goes a long way towards off-setting that, though.

But note how they ignore the fact that every GW Store has Mail Order Forms, and will order it up for you without hassle.

'Everyone' wasn't ignoring that. I addressed it, in fact.

Asking people to order stuff instead of having it on the shelf, from my experience, costs you sales. It doesn't matter whether that order system is on computer, uses a form, or requires you to ask a staff member... a lot of people simply won't bother.

and again, the ridiculous standard certain people hold GW to, whilst steadfastly refusing to do the same to other retail outlets.

Who was doing that?

Personally, I hold other retailers to exactly the same standard. If I walk into a store and they don't have what I want, I walk back out again and go find somewhere that does have it, or that has something else that will do instead.

And if the staff in the first shop had, while I was in there, pointed out to me that they don't stock what I'm looking for because they don't have room for it, then there's a good chance that I don't bother going there the next time I'm looking for something.

keezus wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And GW stock the most common and popular lines in their range in the stores. Space prevents them from stocking EVERYTHING.

Thus, 90% or so of impulse buys are met, probably more. However, even stocking the entire range does not prevent something being sold out by the time you get there, which seems to be the crux of the matter here.

Respectfully - if GW stocks the most popular stuff, chances are the customer HAS it for their army already. It is the stuff that is "off the beaten path" that might inspire a conversion or a side painting project.

I think you misjudge GW Store's standard customer: the person just starting. The person who doesn't need a space pope, but rather the person who needs tactical squads. We're all jaded veterans here, for the most part. GW stocks their stores for the beginning hobbyist. If you, the veteran, need something in particular, they'll be glad to order it for you if it's not stocked. I just don't see the problem with that.

Valhallan42nd wrote: GW stocks their stores for the beginning hobbyist.

Thats most likely the real issue.

It's on a similar vein to the various discussions about White Dwarf not catering to Veterans that we've had over the years.

It's easy to say 'They should be doing this...' and overlook the fact that achieving what your suggesting is quite likely not their aim in the first place.


It would be great for GW stores to be a showcase of every conceivable GW product. But if all GW want them to be is a store that caters to the beginner gamer, with the most common starter sets and most useful models, then no amount of griping from people outside their intended customer base is going to change their way of doing business.

insaniak wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote: GW stocks their stores for the beginning hobbyist.

Thats most likely the real issue.

It's on a similar vein to the various discussions about White Dwarf not catering to Veterans that we've had over the years.

It's easy to say 'They should be doing this...' and overlook the fact that achieving what your suggesting is quite likely not their aim in the first place.


It would be great for GW stores to be a showcase of every conceivable GW product. But if all GW want them to be is a store that caters to the beginner gamer, with the most common starter sets and most useful models, then no amount of griping from people outside their intended customer base is going to change their way of doing business.

Well its not just for beginners- its also what the majority of vets need- so you will see things like SOB squads, vindicare assassins, Wood elf waywatchers, LOTR vault wardens and numerous other products that are common enough with vets buying them to warrant them being there.


As for the store not having space and having bad use of space- to a certain extent the move to an automated stock system has tied the hands of individual managers on what to expect stockwise- having said that the stock management has really improved because of this recently in the UK and it is very rare for a store to run out of things, unless its something they are only meant to have one of or someone goes on a wee spending spree- the "complete army collectors" being the usual culprits (I'm one of them )

Valhallan42nd wrote:

keezus wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And GW stock the most common and popular lines in their range in the stores. Space prevents them from stocking EVERYTHING.

Thus, 90% or so of impulse buys are met, probably more. However, even stocking the entire range does not prevent something being sold out by the time you get there, which seems to be the crux of the matter here.

Respectfully - if GW stocks the most popular stuff, chances are the customer HAS it for their army already. It is the stuff that is "off the beaten path" that might inspire a conversion or a side painting project.

I think you misjudge GW Store's standard customer: the person just starting. The person who doesn't need a space pope, but rather the person who needs tactical squads. We're all jaded veterans here, for the most part. GW stocks their stores for the beginning hobbyist. If you, the veteran, need something in particular, they'll be glad to order it for you if it's not stocked. I just don't see the problem with that.

In all seriousness... NOBODY needs Space Pope.

JohnHwangDD wrote:After reading about windswept313's recent experience at a GW store, I'm wondering about the whole GW retail concept and whether this really works at all.

In theory, everything was exactly as GW planned:
- GW had a retail destination event (most likely, he was going to a Battle Bunker of some sort)
- GW stood to reap hundreds of dollars in immediate sales
- customer willing to drive and pay retail on the spot

In practice, nothing worked
- nothing in stock, out of *several* items requested
- web-order system not effective
- customer driven out of frustration to on-line ordering

It seems like he tried his darnedest to give GW the business, working through quite a list of things that he would have bought, if only they were in stock. And while some might have been slower sellers, to not have any of more than a half-dozen items is a real problem.


This is tied to GW's recent concept of having a smaller range and less stock on site (because people can web order). But it flies in the face of GW having stores as a destination in the first place. The convenience factor and immediacy are supposed to be the key points of the retail store model. And now, GW is going to cut hours and staff?


I really have to wonder about the whole viability of GW's new retail concept, and whether this is doing anything right.


As an aside, I'm backing windswept313 for the most part. If he wanted to web-order, I'm sure he could have done so. But he went out of his way to try and do business locally. And he gave them every opportunity to sell him things. I don't blame him for getting fed up with the whole thing. In all likelihood, I doubt he cares in the least if he's banned from that store, or any GW store - he doesn't buy there or play there, and they didn't have anything that he wanted when he came there.

I know at our local GW's there were 2 within 15 of each other. If we ran low on an item or out, we'd see if the other store had it. If they did, one of us would take the product to the other store. It might not be the most effective in the way of time and labor, but it does certainly make sure that the customer gets what he wants.

I even remember going out to my car and returning product I bought a week before in order to make sure the customer had what he wanted.

Techboss wrote:I think the one point people are failing to realize is that the GW store should be available for the impulse buyer. Chances are if I'm going to a GW store or retail store for that matter, it's because I want something NOW. It's not because I want to wait. This means that going to the store and then having to order the product is a waste of my time and an aggrivation because my NOW want wasn't satisfied.

Let's look at a seqence of events. I want product X now, so I hop in my car and drive to the local GW. I arrive and they don't have the item I want. They offer to order it and I choose to order the item. I then return a week later and pick up my product. Total cost to me:

+ Product X full retail cost
+ Gas to and from the store TWICE
+ Sales Tax

Lets do it another way. I go to the store and decide not to order the product. I instead, go home and order it via an online retailer.

+ Product X full retail cost
- 20% discount
+ Gas to and from the store once
+ Shipping

My guess is the second is cheaper.

Or try this way.

phone call to check(already covered in phone bill).
Finding out they don't have the item.
-20% discount
+shipping

WHOA LOOK AT THOSE SAVINGS!!! The best part is you don't look like a total ing .

Personally, I consider impulse buys in the $10 or less section. So maybe a blister pack, the only item I've ever bought on impulse were cadian snipers at my gaming store and maybe a soda.
Chances are that if you're going to drive one hour out to a store and are a SMART person you would either call ahead or have other plans in case your trip turns out to be a bust. I mean if you call ahead and they have only one item of what you want left then they'll see if they can hold it, and if they can't then they'll probably tell you that there's little chance the item you want will last for another hour.

Also the issue isn't with spacing, I'll agree to that point. However you must look at what the space is divided up into. GW has space that is needed for hobbying and then there's space for advertisement and then space that is divided up between paints, Warhammer 40k, Warhammer Fantasy, LOTR, and maybe Battlefleet Gothic. However, there is space in the back of the store. Often stores will get shipments and have overstock of certain items and they will put out as many of these items as possible, if rarer items are sent then they get lost in the back. Just be happy the guy looked in the back, he offered the battleforce only because that's what he had in stock. Look at the size of the battleforce boxes, how many do you think they can fit in the back.

To Stonefox, I was just making a point and comparing dakkadakka.com to GW stores. I hope that you aren't really serious.

or this way:

-20% discount
+shipping

I think that is actually the point of the thread. Why even bother going to a GW store?

Well, you can't exactly play a tabletop on the internet now can you.

It comes down customers somehow always being right, which is hardly ever true. Any given store's return policy often tries to screw you, and the customer's are, in turn, trying to screw them. It just goes back and forth. I had to deal with this at Dillards all the time and would get in trouble if I tried to defend myself like I would normally because it would be considered "unprofessional." Small stores are nice compared to large chains because employees can actually say what they think. Lesson to learn, the customer is owed nothing. The only exception might lie with their money they just spent, but that's a might.

halonachos wrote:Well, you can't exactly play a tabletop on the internet now can you.

If the only reason to go to a GW store is to play games, I would argue that this indeed makes them not viable as a store.

Its not the only reason many people go, its just a plus. I mean what would you do if GW relied only on online service, no human contact. Then when you see something interesting and want to know more about it, you have to rely solely on the site's description. You think it sounds good and buy it, only to be disappointed when it comes in. Then you want to return it and go through a hassle and have to pay shipping to return it.

So you payed for shipping twice, but at least you'll get the money you paid for your item back. Look at the time you saved as well.

That's where the store comes in as being viable as a store, it allows guests to make more informed purchases on what they see.

keezus wrote:

I really don't understand why they don't stock the whole range. Most managers say that it has to do with wall space, but there is no reason not to have some in storage - for those one off chances that somebody wants one. Stock != Display.

I haven't read through the whole thread yet, so excuse me if this is already mentioned.

When stocking a wall, a retailer ABSOLUTELY has to take into account what products sell. EVERY SINGLE INCH of a wall (and the floor too) costs the retailer money. If a product sits on your wall for 6 months and a single unit doesn't sell, that product needs to be taken down, and replaced with product that will sell. A business can't afford to lose money on anything, 'especially in today's economy' (tm).

A lot of items break this mold of course. No FLGS can afford NOT to stock D&D, many gamers will walk in specifically to look at the D&D selection, and if they don't see it on the wall, will walk back out forever. Even though a store may only sell a D&D book once every 4-6 months, it's still more profitable than not stocking it at all.

The pure and simple truth is, most stores have to have a certain amount of revenue/sq. foot or they just fail. Items that only sell once in a blue moon are best left to special orders; The wall is for stock that pays the rent.

halonachos wrote:Its not the only reason many people go, its just a plus. I mean what would you do if GW relied only on online service, no human contact. Then when you see something interesting and want to know more about it, you have to rely solely on the site's description. You think it sounds good and buy it, only to be disappointed when it comes in. Then you want to return it and go through a hassle and have to pay shipping to return it.

So you payed for shipping twice, but at least you'll get the money you paid for your item back. Look at the time you saved as well.

That's where the store comes in as being viable as a store, it allows guests to make more informed purchases on what they see.

I think this is exactly why people are arguing GW should make an effort to stock more of their line. If this is the reason you go to a GW store, and they are missing 50% of all of the stuff you came to look at, how many times would you go before never coming back?

Kilkrazy wrote:

Well, I am, but I was just trying to illustrate the nature of problem. Maybe the cost of Space Pope is £8 manufactured and put into stock rather than £20. There are still, what, 20 armies with maybe 2.5 characters each, costing the same, so that's 20*2.5*8*500 = £200,000 of stock. If GW find they actually sell 10 of each character per week, they only need have a stock of 20 of them in their warehouse, costing £8,000. Just restock 10 every week.

And there's the other end of the equation too:

Even if they DO throw all this stuff on their walls to sit, the production costs are doubled. Why? Well I can tell you GW doesn't fire up the machines to run 10 models from a mold. They run 100's or even 1000's at a time. So they have to spin out the original stock, and ship it out, THEN they have to spin out the warehouse's stock, so when the stores and FLGS's order, they can ship it again. Take into account that they still have to spin molds on the popular stuff and store/ship it out, and your cost for the non-popular items starts to spiral. Now you have items that are costing GW double the rent: once on the walls in their stores, and once in the warehouse.

Just spinning a (comparativley) few and making them Direct only, costs half or less the cost of spinning enough to put (even one copy) them in every store and then storing enough stock to replenish the walls.

Go ahead and kill me, but I've skimmed through the thread.

I've always wondered why there are around 9 GW stores in the Washington, DC area, yet such and such state doesn't have a single store in it at all. GW must get a lot of sales from that area.

Or enough thefts to necessitate the need for that many stores to make a profit.

I think that's just symptomatic of GW North America being based in Glen Burnie

Our HQ is in that town, so let's flood it with stores? Wow! I guess Oak Brook, IL must have a McDonald's on every block.

Ironhide wrote:Our HQ is in that town, so let's flood it with stores? Wow! I guess Oak Brook, IL must have a McDonald's on every block.

That's how Circle K (Locally based convenience store) is here. There is LITERALLY one on every block.

Lordhat wrote:

Ironhide wrote:Our HQ is in that town, so let's flood it with stores? Wow! I guess Oak Brook, IL must have a McDonald's on every block.

That's how Circle K (Locally based convenience store) is here. There is LITERALLY one on every block.

So I'm guessing strange things are afoot quite often?